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Police say GPS tag darts can eliminate need for dangerous high-speed chases
- psychlops 4y agoAlso, not chasing people eliminates the need for high-speed chases. Simply show up at their house later.
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoYou have to know who they are, where they live, and they have to be home for this to work.
- psychlops 4y agoDepends on what you mean by "work". If you mean they don't catch the person fleeing, well they don't catch them half the time anyway, a quarter of the time it ends in a collision. https://www.chp.ca.gov/Documents/Police_Pursuits_SB_719_%202020.pdf https://www.chp.ca.gov/Documents/Police_Pursuits_SB_719_%202... They will arrest less people and avoid endangering more bystanders.
- everyone 4y ago"Finally found a use for that Mateba of yours."
- jstarfish 4y agoTasers were supposed to eliminate the need for fatal shootings too. Here's hoping.
- nathanaldensr 4y agoAre you implying that tasers have never been deployed when a firearm otherwise would have been?
- colechristensen 4y agoThe key word is “eliminate”, obviously they have not eliminated anything and have brought their own problems with officers using them when they would never use deadly force when trasers are only less lethal and kill plenty of people.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- TaylorAlexander 4y agoI can't speak to what the parent is saying but I do know that tasers have themselves resulted in deaths, which may never have occurred if the only alternative was shooting. That is, tasers are perceived as non-lethal so they get used more often, even though they can be fatal. Guns are understood to be fatal so likely used in fewer scenarios. Thus there must have been times where an officer would not have used a gun but was willing to use a taser.
- eyeudhfyf7rj 4y agoBeing beat/choked to death also happens. At a certain point I feel like the argument is either needlessly pedantic or the counter aegument is simply "So what?" The alternative to any confrontation is leaving the individual to go free which is hardly a win for their community.
- uoaei 4y agoThe supposition that every police action is justified, simply because it's being conducted by police, is defined as "authoritarianism".
- lmm 4y agoIt's apparently routine to tase someone who runs from a traffic stop because they had a minor warrant that wasn't being actively pursued. I think it's fair to say neither shooting them nor beating/choking them is routine in that situation; there's no real public safety argument (if this person was a danger to the public they'd've been pursuing the warrant already). At some point the actions that this tool is enabling are doing more harm than good.
- Aeolun 4y agoI’m inclined to say they’re still less fatal than bullets would hve been.
- katbyte 4y agoexcept because of that perception (from advertising and lies by taser) police deploy them at the drop of a hat when deadly force wouldn't otherwise be used. They are not non-lethal, just "less lethal with an arm of taser lawyers/doctors who will justify any deaths that occur and get it labeled excited delirium a made up condition"
- jstarfish 4y agoRight, thanks! They were pitched as a non-lethal alternative to sidearms-- to incapacitate subjects in situations where deadly force was your only other option. In practice, they're a convenient way to end inconvenient conversations.
- akeck 4y agoNeat! The first time I saw one these "used" was in the original Ghost in the Shell from the 90s.
- DerekL 4y agoAlso, Spider-Man uses Spider-Tracers, first depicted in 1964. That probably wasn’t the first time these were seen in fiction. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Amazing_Spider-Man_Vol_1_11 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Amazing_Spider-Man_Vol_1_11
- adolph 4y agoLooks like Starchase Guardian system StarChase technology has been reviewed and approved by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). https://www.starchase.com/ https://www.starchase.com/ Added: Air powered, range of 10-40 ft. AR lower receiver for user familiarity. Tags use glue maybe? Tags are non-permanent and contain a proprietary attachment technology
- brokenmachine 4y ago>AR lower receiver for user familiarity This wins the "most American thing I've read today" award.
- LoganDark 4y ago> Tags use glue maybe? Meh, I wouldn't trust it until I had an opportunity to see said glue for myself. Glues are usually terrible.
- tyingq 4y agoWas curious how they attached. One of the more popular systems is darts with foam heads and some kind of glue that heats up on impact to adhere. https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/StarChase-system-offers-police-an-alternative-to-6538100.php https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/StarC...
- mLuby 4y ago> This eliminates the need for possible high-speed chases, worries about police jurisdiction issues, and any concerns about danger on the roads. I thought high-speed chases were often about getting a dangerous driver off the road. And by definition since it's high speed it's probably dangerous. GPS darts wouldn't do anything about that, you'd need some sci-fi EMP/hacker darts. > "The reality is that everyone runs from the police nowadays," said Oak Brook police Chief Brian Strockis. Well yeah—trust cuts both ways. > "[Police can] get up next to the vehicle in an undercover car, roll down the window and tag that vehicle without the bad guy even knowing." These GPS darts must transmit to be useful, so that signal should be detectable. Just another box for criminals to have next to a police scanner and radar trap detector.
- Aeolun 4y agoHow cynical. Let’s just do away with all possible improvements to the system because there might be a counter to them. The happy reality is that the majority of criminals probably isn’t prepared to deal with all of these tools.
- VectorLock 4y agoI think a vanishingly small number of criminals have police scanners and radar detectors in this day and age. Especially since police have largely moved over to encrypted trunked radios.
- lalopalota 4y agoNot to mention that possessing a police scanner while committing a crime is a crime itself.
- oefrha 4y agoSome people like to think of criminals as evil geniuses. The reality is that the vast majority of non-financial criminals are barely educated dumbasses and that’s how they got there in the first place.
- runnerup 4y ago
- neom 4y agoSpeaking of new-ish "police tech" - I've been really into this grappler thing, for some reason I think it's super cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_mRRJHUZrc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_mRRJHUZrc
- ChuckMcM 4y agoThat is pretty interesting, (found the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7JGJC4XQ44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7JGJC4XQ44) Looks like it entangles with a tire. It might be more difficult to get close enough to engage though? Interesting tech though!
- tyingq 4y agoThis video shows how it works pretty clearly: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=232772845619943 https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=232772845619943
- neom 4y agoIndeed, likely better than doing a PIT maneuver. In terms of stack-ranking pursuit tools Choppers are expensive/not all forces have them, PIT is the most accessible but quite dangerous, grappler is probably better, but these GPS dart things are probably a level better again. Never the less, I really like the grappler thing, I find it somehow quite... elegant!
- m463 4y agoWhen you said grappler I thought of magnavolt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMtqRir7dco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMtqRir7dco
- mchanson 4y agoOr they could just let some people go. Police are obsessed with domination and not with safety.
- FoomFries 4y agoAnd those they can’t, they can tag. Hence the article.
- TheDudeMan 4y agoOr just read the license plate. But no. Police like the chase. And the beating at the end.
- thomascgalvin 4y agoThere are plenty of problems with policing in America (and worldwide, for that matter), but this ignores the entire category of "crimes involving stolen vehicles."
- anigbrowl 4y agoIf they can ditch the car then they're gonna be ditching the GPS dart with it.
- adgjlsfhk1 4y agoKnowing where and when they ditched the car is still a massive advantage.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y agoMost vehicles involved in chases are stolen. Those that aren't generally have removed or stolen plates. In other words, reading the plates is the current practice, but usually yields little useful intel.
- ChuckMcM 4y agoWow, I see a new product idea for a price insensitive market... :-)
- pluc 4y agoAnd here I am trying to find a dog GPS collar that won't have the poor thing tip over.
- Gigachad 4y agoGet an AirTag holder for a collar. Light and good enough. No need for a SIM card or huge battery.
- pxc 4y agoGPS collars are used when you know, or expect to know, that your dog is within a such and such mile radius in a forest and you need help finding it recover it. They're for when you're out hunting or hiking with an offleash dog and it takes off after a prey item, and you lose sight of it. Since AirTags rely on Bluetooth and the cooperation of other devices, they're not that useful in some of the situations where you want a GPS collar. If you're worried about a dog getting lost around people, something like an AirTag might be a good addition to your dog's microchip, though.
- pluc 4y agoCorrect! There are plenty of small Bluetooth collars and exactly zero smartphones out in the forest.
- lylejantzi3rd 4y agoDon't the police need a warrant to attach a gps tracking device to a car?
- neom 4y agoProbable cause. :) "There are times when police can perform a search without a warrant, and most searches actually do occur without warrants being issued. If there is a reasonable expectation of privacy and there is not probable cause, a search warrant is required. However, if probable cause does occur, such as a suspect runs away, a gunshot is heard from another room in a home, or even when an individual makes a sudden movement, a search becomes legal without a warrant." https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/know-your-rights-can-you-be-searched-without-a-warrant https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/know-your-rights-can-you-...
- thomascgalvin 4y agoThere are exceptions to warrantless searches and entry given probable cause, reasonable suspicion, and iminent public threat. If a guy is doing 120MPH down Santa Monica Boulevard after emptying a magazine at a Girl Scout who was out of Thin Mints, that's gonna check a whole lot of "the rules in this situation are relaxed" boxes.
- lylejantzi3rd 4y ago> that's gonna check a whole lot of "the rules in this situation are relaxed" boxes. Until the inevitable lawsuit.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- woodruffw 4y agoLike so much police tech, there's very little public data supporting the acquisition of these toys: do police regularly get into high-speed car chases where they can't make out the license plate? Do CCTV networks, which we've been told are meant to solve this problem, not actually do so? Is the law even prepared for evidence in the form of a GPS tag gun?
- gnicholas 4y agoLicense plates don't allow you to track someone's location in real time. If it's easy enough to get one of these attached to a vehicle, and the criminal doesn't know/can't remove it, then this would be much more valuable than just having their plates.
- pdog 4y ago> "The reality is that everyone runs from the police nowadays." Since when? This should be a bigger story than the availability of GPS tracking darts.
- foolfoolz 4y agothis article is full of claims in need of data such as this one. > These darts have been used successfully, nationwide, 10,000 times – meaning 10,000 wanted or accused criminals have been taken off the streets. every single use of the dart was for a criminal? a 100% conviction rate? also > The most important thing about StarChase is every tag saves a life” every police chase involves a death?
- VectorLock 4y agoDefinitely marketing hyberbole but if they need to use the tag dart, presumably it is someone who is fleeing from the police, so they are _at least_ guilty of eluding, with probably a very high conviction rate for at least that offense, if they go to trial.
- olliej 4y agoNever run from the police, because they never kill people who are cooperating?
- xyzelement 4y agoOk... What are the cases where running from the police is the preferable strategy?
- computerfriend 4y agoWhen you get away.
- olliej 4y agoYou're driving home with your girlfriend and daughter and a police officer pulls you over. You are licensed to carry a gun, and you have your gun in your car. If you drive off you're evading police, and guilty of a crime, and if you don't you get this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Philando_Castile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Philando_Castile. I am not saying "you should always run from the cops". What I'm saying is that "there's nothing to fear from cooperating with the police after not committing a crime" is also not true. The police are responsible for creating an environment in which a sizable portion of the population have a very real fear that any interaction may result in harm or death whether or not you did anything wrong, and so the decision to run may seem "wrong" but it is not unreasonable.
- defrost 4y agoArt, meet reality: The ID Sniper rifle is an art project, a fictional, hoax weapon devised by artist Jakob Boeskov and industrial designer Kristian von Bengtson. The rifle supposedly shoots GPS chips, and the police force may tag persons with this rifle for later easy retrieval. It was produced by the fictional company Empire North. According to its specs, "It will feel like a mosquito-bite lasting a fraction of a second. At the same time a digital camcorder with a zoom-lens fitted within the scope will take a high-resolution picture of the target. This picture will be stored on a memory card for later image-analysis." The design was presented in 2002 in Beijing at the China Police exhibition. Boeskov says that a Chinese company offered venture capital and a location for manufacturing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID_Sniper_rifle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID_Sniper_rifle
- KennyBlanken 4y agoWhat this doesn't address: * The joyriding trend (example: "Kia Boys") made popular by tiktok. Some departments are seeing thefts go up 10-fold. These kids purposefully drive incredibly recklessly and at speeds that are easily lethal to them, other people in cars, motorcyclists, pedestrians, cyclists...even people nowhere near the road. These cars are being driven so fast that they'll get in a crash and go flying into people's houses, businesses, etc. * Cases where the driver is unknown, or not known to a standard that would hold up to scrutiny in court. This is already a huge problem with a lot of hit-and-run cases in the US, because police might be able to prove a car was involved, but not who was behind the wheel. Stopping the driver/car eliminates that issue. * Cases where the driver represents an active threat to public safety. People under the influence, having a psychotic break, are suicidal, or fleeing because they just committed a very serious crime such as deadly assault or homicide I think this whole problem came about from the auto industry conditioning us to accept all the hazards of motor vehicles as somehow normal or different from, say, any other crime. Kill someone with a car? "Vehicular" homicide, which almost always carries lesser penalties than homicide by any other means? WTF. If I wave a gun around in a crowded public area, I can expect to run a good chance of being shot to death by police. But if I run from a traffic stop, barreling down the streets at twice or three times the speed limit, representing a lethal danger to everyone else on the road (and sidewalks, and inside businesses nowhere near the road...), it's somehow excessive force to immediately terminate that chase by any means necessary? Even when we have extensive evidence that people fleeing from traffic stops are a massive danger to the public? Chase termination policies don't really help, do they? When plenty of idiots keep running to "put some distance on"? I saw a video of UK cops chasing a teen in a stolen car, and it's clear he's going for an onramp to an expressway, the cop in the chase car declares over the radio that he's basically going to purposefully crash the kid's car off the road, because otherwise he's going to be a lethal danger. The kid goes for the onramp, and then ram him, hard, into the ditch, probably totaling the police car - but likely saving someone's life, possibly the kid himself. I've also noticed that UK police are highly competent at using multiple vehicles to bring a suspect to a stop. Watching US police chases, it's a fucking clown show - you could play the benny hill music and it wouldn't feel out of place. US cops are comically incompetent at stopping a vehicle, even when they've got a dozen vehicles to do so with. Police in many countries will simply blockade a road, but I've never seen that done in the states, either.... I'm quite progressive on a huge number of social issues but if you run from police and operate your vehicle in a way that represents a lethal danger to the general public, police should treat it like they would any other lethal threat to public safety. IE terminate the chase, immediately. And I frankly don't give a shit about anything except minimizing danger to the public as quickly as possible
- asdff 4y agoOTOH a lot of chases involve the suspect using several vehicles over the course of the chase. If they know cops break lose after darting, then they will steal another stolen car and ditch the current one with the dart. It seems like piloting a drone would be a lot easier and cheaper than chasing with cars, darts, or helicopters, since even if you are pursued by a helicopter, you can take a page out of Grand Theft Auto and wait under an overpass for your stars to go down: https://ktla.com/news/local-news/authorities-pursue-vehicle-in-l-a/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/authorities-pursue-vehicle-... https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/socal-police-chases/police-chasing-car-near-downtown-la/2458802/ https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/socal-police-chases...
- brokenmachine 4y agoIf they know the dart's there, surely it's easier to just pull the dart off and throw it away than stealing another car.
- asdff 4y agoIt's probably faster to pull in front of someone and threaten them for their vehicle than to find wherever this dart is stuck.
- brokenmachine 4y agoI think you overestimate how difficult it could be to find the dart on a car. I mean, it's probably on the back if that's where the cops were behind you. Then just scrape or kick it off.
- NoZebra120vClip 4y agoMy brother-in-law has a saying, "You can't outrun a radio!" Well no, especially not if the radio is attached to your vehicle...
- joshSzep 4y agoMy uncle was a sheriff for many years. He was always fond of saying: "You might outrun a cop, but you will never outrun the radio"
- xwdv 4y agoIf police did this to me, I’d just pull over somewhere, rip off the dart and put it on another car at a stoplight.
- TulliusCicero 4y agoTwo things: 1. You might not notice when the dart gets attached 2. Stopping to remove the dart while running the hell away obviously presents some risk to you
- xwdv 4y agoIf they shoot a dart because they don’t plan to chase me right away it implies I’ll get some good distance before they catch up. I have maybe a few minutes. It will also be obvious you have a dart if they suddenly decide to not chase you, now that it is a known technology.
- anonym29 4y agoStep 1. Purchase 5 SDR's, Spoof GPS, Galileo, GLONASS, QZSS, BeiDou to show location as other side of the globe, middle of ocean, etc - run all 5 inside of car. Step 2. ?????? Step 3. Run from cops, keep going after they tag you and pull back, only to see your location as antarctica and realize they're not catching you Step 4. PROFIT
- emodendroket 4y agoThen I suppose there’s no problem banning high-speed police changes, which present unreasonable risk to unrelated third parties for little clear benefit.
- neilv 4y agoI'm cautious about new technology powers, but I like the idea of reducing the risks of high-speed chases. I'd guess that they'll increasingly also be able to order the computers of modern/emerging vehicles to slow down and come to a safe stop. And/or have swarms of multiple autonomous small camera drones. They can pursue a vehicle, and then split up when the occupants of a vehicle do, or split to cover exits of a structure that the suspects entered, or for redundancy if some drones are damaged, etc. And fresh autonomous drones could be placed around the city, standing by, ready to join a pursuit (perhaps relieving drones with batteries spent by high-speed pursuit), or to respond automatically to gunshots, or to be deployed to a location immediately by 911 dispatchers, etc. If you live somewhere that has problems with power being abused, some of the power will be becoming more powerful, so all the more reason to get abuse problems fixed now.
- balderdash 4y agoSeems like a decent solution if the goal is to recover the vehicle. Not such a great solution if the goal is to apprehend the driver/passengers…
- alex_young 4y agoStupid Darts. It’s a Gallagher bit right? https://youtu.be/SLmIR6MOFiE https://youtu.be/SLmIR6MOFiE
- Smoosh 4y agoPossibly a way to work around United States v. Jones with some plausible deniability or parallel construction. "When we shot the car with the dart there was a crime taking place. We then tracked (for several days) using GPS until we were sure the accused was alone at home before making an arrest." How long until some officer abuses it to track an ex?
- Cieplak 4y agoI assume the effectiveness of the tracking dart depends on the suspect not knowing it has been affixed to their vehicle. If they knew, wouldn’t they just pry it off?
- tablespoon 4y ago> This eliminates the need for possible high-speed chases, worries about police jurisdiction issues, and any concerns about danger on the roads. Though GPS jammers are a thing (my understanding is they are fairly simple to build but illegal), so this tactic could probably be defeated/exploited by a sophisticated criminal to get away.
- chemmail 4y agoYou mean they can actually use the things in the Fast and the Furious!?!?!?!!
- stjohnswarts 4y agothis is unlikely to catch on, as there is no addictive adrenalin rush and it will be very hard to prove who was driving the vehicle later.