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Megaupload down, FBI Charges Seven With Online Piracy
- cafard 15y agoWould these be the complainants who hijacked a lot of other people's legitimate content?
- namidark 15y agoWho needs SOPA when we have ICE?
- cyanbane 15y agoFrom DOJ Presser: For example, when notified by a rights holder that a file contained infringing content, the indictment alleges that the conspirators would disable only a single link to the file, deliberately and deceptively leaving the infringing content in place to make it seamlessly available to millions of users to access through any one of the many duplicate links available for that file. I assume the DMCA specifies content removal not removal of links/access to the content? It puts places like Dropbox in an interesting place. If you share a link with someone and the link is to something from "your own" storage space, and a rights holder issues a takedown (for the sharing aspect) is the company also supposed to remove the content from "your storage" assuming it is the same 1s and 0s? Should they have a right to if it is only you with access?
- rbanffy 15y agoMore interestingly, if I host a lot of files on a file-deduped storage system, where there is only a single copy to any given file with many different directory entries pointing to it, if user A has a movie he hold rights to and user B hosts the same file (ending up on the same physical file connected to a different directory entry) without having the right to do it and user A sends me a takedown notice, will I really be forced to remove the file A had because I have to actually remove the file, not only the means of accessing it?
- sixothree 15y agoIt's been shown that if you upload a file to dropbox with a hash that already exists in another userspace, the upload takes place almost immediately. This implies there is really only one copy of the file on their servers. This was maybe 6 months ago so who know what now.
- bostonvaulter2 15y agoBut what if that other person has right's to the file, perhaps they bought the file while the other person obtained it illegally.
- ricksta 15y agoIt looks like Anonymous took down a bunch of websites just very recently. https://twitter.com/#!/AnonDaily https://twitter.com/#!/AnonDaily http://www.bmi.com/ http://www.bmi.com/ http://USDOJ.GOV/ http://USDOJ.GOV/ http://www.fbi.gov/ http://www.fbi.gov/ and more...
- ChrisNorstrom 15y agoWell FUCK, all of our Resident Evil 5 mods where hosted with them.
- FaceKicker 15y agoDoJ press release with a little more info: http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-crm-074.html http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-crm-074.html
- waitwhat 15y agoOf course, someone [https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSweden/status/160107848121061376 https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSweden/status/160107848121061376] has now taken down the justice.gov website. Google cache of the press release: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Awww.justice.gov%2Fopa%2Fpr%2F2012%2FJanuary%2F12-crm-074.html http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cac...
- brador 15y agoSo in terms of precedent, if dropbox can be used to store copyright files, could they also be shut down on a whim like this?
- The_Sponge 15y agoIt seems that way.
- dchest 15y agoYeah, The Dropbox Conspirators now probably must implement a public search function and the list of top files. Instead, the indictment alleges that the conspirators manipulated the perception of content available on their servers by not providing a public search function on the Megaupload site and by not including popular infringing content on the publicly available lists of top content downloaded by its users. Oh, and affiliate programs are now money laundering: The indictment charges the defendants with conspiring to launder money by paying users through the sites’ uploader reward program and paying companies to host the infringing content.
- silverlight 15y agoPaying companies to host it? What the heck? That's like saying it's tax fraud to pay your electric bill if you're late on your tax return.
- Drbble 15y agoDid Kim own the hosting companies too? That would be a textbook example of laundering.
- ssebro 15y agoI think it's worse that dropbox dedupes files, which means that they(dropbox) already have infrastructure that could seriously combat their use in infringement. I do wonder how this plays into the whole Swizz Beats is CEO news.
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- nphrk 15y agoWhy did they charge the graphic designer and the developers?
- beloch 15y agoFear.
- loceng 15y agoThrow charges at everyone and see what sticks? Plus, they can try to leverage them to plea against their main targets / give evidence against them.
- adestefan 15y agoThe Feds don't really do that. They want every indictment to be a conviction.
- The_Sponge 15y agoIntimidation. I bet they also want to "make an example" of megaupload and any other similar company.
- larrik 15y agoI assume because they needed to grab everyone they could in one shot, since they are outside of the U.S., and it can turn out that one or more of them are in fact guilty. Otherwise, they can just disappear and you'll never get the chance again. This actually makes sense if you consider that these laws are aimed at the mafia, and that there is no penalty to the U.S. government for being wrong. EDIT: I find it interesting how everyone always jumps to the "OMG EVIL" conclusion with these things. From what I've seen, American law enforcement can be overzealous, heavy-handed, and cause a lot of collateral damage, but they are rarely "evil." "wrong" =/= "evil"
- nona 15y agoBeing overzealous, heavy-handed and causing a lot of collateral damage goes right against the presumption of innocence. Evil in my book.
- gry 15y agoSOPA and PIPA would help how? This appears successful without them.
- dmethvin 15y agoI am assuming because it took 2 years to get to this point. With SOPA and PIPA in place there is no need for a takedown involving the federal authorities. Copyright holders can achieve the same much more quickly by using PIPA and SOPA to starve them of cash and audience.
- cheald 15y agoOr in the case of foreign sites like Megaupload, the Attorney General can just say "We don't like you" and impose a censorship order on all US-based ISPs, ad services, and payment providers.
- endersshadow 15y agoEdit: Leaving the original text so as not to confuse the conversation. Megaupload is a foreign (to the US) site with a US TLD, not a US-domestic site. The arrests were made around the globe, but mostly in New Zealand. The FBI may have initiated the indictment, but extradition applies, as does the Berne Convention. SOPA and PIPA are intended to address issues with foreign-hosted sites being used by Americans to pirate American copyrighted works. MegaUpload is a domestic outfit, so they fall under existing copyright law, including DMCA. The issue with fighting foreign-based sites is that they don't fall under US jurisdiction. Up till now, the RIAA and MPAA have taken to suing Americans using those services. However, that's not really putting a dent in piracy. So, they came up with SOPA and PIPA. Of course, how do you stop Americans from visiting foreign sites which you have no jurisdiction over? Using DNS filtering is the answer they came up with. Of course, they left the language fairly broad, and now they've stricken that part from the bill. The real issue with SOPA and PIPA is the removal of due process. Since the laws deal with foreign entities, though, the waters get muddied.
- gry 15y agoMy comment was glib. I agree with how SOPA and PIPA removes due process -- one I assume was followed over the course of 2 years. Investigation if a crime was committed, by whom, arrest offenders and confiscate goods. Whether or not megaupload is guilty, it seems to me this was followed and bridged international boundaries nicking a "foreign" and "rogue site". As an aside, I don't think megaupload fits a domestic definition. All indicted are apparently not Americans and it is a Hong Kong and New Zealand based organization.
- lhnz 15y agoIs this the Megaupload run by the producer Swizz Beatz posted on here only a little earlier? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3484419 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3484419 So the RIAA are going after their own artists for allegedly stealing money from their own artists? What a weird industry this is...
- ethank 15y agoIt is naive to think it was only the RIAA or associated lobbying groups going after them.
- lhnz 15y ago1. I never said that. I just insinuated they were one of the parties that would go after the site. 2. Please don't walk around calling people naive. It's offensive and unnecessary.
- ethank 15y agoNot trying to be offensive, but seeing the RIAA thrown around as this big boogeyman is annoying, and also seeing it stand in for labels, artists even more so. One of the biggest foes for MegaUpload was porn, who have much more money but less lobbying clout than the RIAA.
- nknight 15y agoThe RIAA and major labels are one and the same. It is disingenuous at best to try and distinguish one from the other, when the board of directors consists entirely of label representatives. Meanwhile, precious few artists whine about piracy like the RIAA does, you hear a lot more whining about the labels, because they're the ones screwing artists.
- ethank 15y agoThe RIAA represents WMG, UMG and Sony Music. Each of those has a bunch labels. They themselves are not labels. For instance, WMG corporate has no A&R staff. The business of music is different than the practice of it, and lumping it all into the "label" itself is disingenuous. The politics within those companies usually means the labels at the very edge (where marketing and A&R are) are often at odds with corporate/RIAA. When I'm on better a better connection I'll post some examples. I don't mean to be pedantic about it, but the ecosystem around music is much more complex than "sue them all"
- bri3d 15y agoHosting files is a dangerous business - the line between being shut down for infringement and not being shut down seems to be drawn by who you know and what users you end up with, not any real actions, design, or technical differences in your site. The indictment of Megaupload actually uses their lack of search function and censorship of copyrighted material from their "top content" list as marks against them. This means most other file sharing services which focus on one-to-one or one-to-many sharing and hence omit search and a "trending" list (looking at Dropbox, here) are vulnerable.
- skymt 15y agoCensorship of the top-content list is actually a valid point against them. It means Megaupload had some system to identify infringing files, but rather than flagging them for investigation or deletion, they simply removed them from the public list.
- stsanders 15y agoI disagree. Distributing copyrighted material to unauthorized parties is an issue. Storing it doesn't seem like an issue to me. 100% of cloud storage companies are grossly violating all sorts of copyrights if this is the case. Storing it but removing the ability for the internet at large to leech it seems legit to me. If someone distributes the private URL to such files, I think that counts as them distributing it, not megaupload. It's not a straightforward issue though.
- bri3d 15y agoThis is a slippery slope - when can you actually "identify an infringing file?" Can I identify an infringing file because I match the filename against the names of popular movies? Probably not. Can my startup recognize infringing files because it calculates the checksum of each block of each file for use in deduplication? Sort of, with a lot of technical build-out, and never with any certainty... If I see "OMG WAREZ.rar" in a news feed on my homepage, should I remove the file itself, all access to the file, or just the link to the file? What if I have a strict do-not-delete policy for user data? What if I have a strict do-not-download policy for user data (even public user data), to prevent me from accidentally possessing child porn on my work PC? Do I just make an arbitrary and capricious blacklist of file names? It's absolutely not a valid point against them - their system for "identifying infringing files" was more like a system for "identifying bad-looking file names," which is tangentially related at best.
- zotz 15y agoMegaupload files countersuit against Universal, FBI moves in. Good thing I'm not the paranoid kind.
- libraryatnight 15y agoMy thoughts exactly. And, the day after SOPA/PIPA blackouts feds take down a site some were using as a SOPA/PIPA poster child, that generates headlines on FOX like this: Feds say 7 from Megaupload.com ran massive worldwide piracy website http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/01/19/feds-shut-down-file-sharing-website/ http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/01/19/feds-shut-down-fil...
- zotz 15y agoI'm waiting for the "terrorist" angle to be used with Megaupload or perhaps the next target. I'm a little surprised the Feds haven't played that card yet.
- unreal37 15y agoYeah, its the "day after the blackout" which I think is a favor to the MPAA/RIAA folks. "Let's erase these 'sopa is bad' stories from the nightly news and replace them with a good evil pirates tale."
- Florin_Andrei 15y agoI "like" how the news is plastered all over the Internet that the "government" has taken down Megaupload. Like small children, fascinated by the sock puppet, forgetting the hand that actually moves it. It's very clear now, we live in a plutocracy. Big corporations are above the law in every single way that matters.
- zotz 15y ago> we live in a plutocracy I prefer the word "synarchism", as used by Fairbank and King: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synarchy#China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synarchy#China
- wmf 15y agoThe "pay to download, get paid to upload" business model does seem fishy to me; I guess I'm not the only one.
- sagarun 15y agoFBI doesn't have any 'job' other than chasing down bunch of movie "pirates"?
- cyanbane 15y agoTo be fair, it looks like it was a busy day for them: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204468004577168450897919374.html?mod=googlenews_wsj http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020446800457716...
- earbitscom 15y agoWhy is pirates in quotes? The article says these guys made over $150M in half a dozen years breaking international treaties and operating illegally. Stopping them is exactly what the FBI's job is. It's not like they're going after jay walkers.
- sophacles 15y agoProbably because: pi·ra·cy/ˈpīrəsē/ Noun: 1. The practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea. 2. A similar practice in other contexts, esp. hijacking. Is not the same as "making a copy of something in violation of copyright rules".
- Karunamon 15y agoGet modern dictionary. pi·ra·cy noun /ˈpīrəsē/ piracies, plural 1. The practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea 2. Similar practice in other contexts, esp. hijacking - air piracy 3. The unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work - software piracy
- sophacles 15y agoA. My definition was a c+p from a Google search for "define piracy" B. The equation of copyright infringement with other types of piracy (and theft for that matter) is misleading and pure propaganda (granted, its 300 year old propaganda, but still wrong).
- e1ven 15y agoWow. This is a really interesting situation; I can't agree with this action at all. 1) The site complied with DMCA regulations, and removed material when asked. 2) The site did not directly promote piracy, which was Grokster decision. 3) The listed employees are all (or nearly all) not US citizens, so this required international cooperation, and extradition over copyright? From my perspective it looks like they were follow the letter of the law on all, or nearly all counts. The DOJ seems to have decided that if they can't really charge them with something specific, they'll go upstream, and charge them with vague broad things. This makes me rather worried that even if you run a legitimate business, and comply with the law, if the DOJ decides they don't like you, you're done for. WTF?
- adestefan 15y agoIf you read the actual press release and not the little WSJ blurb, then you'll see that DoJ's indicment said that MegaUpload actually did not comply with the DMCA safe harbor provisions and they did directly promote piracy. Of course, it's now up to them to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this is true. As for the not US citizens, it's covered via the Berne Convention: The laws of the country where the copyright is registered applies. They probably spell out extradition, too.
- gte910h 15y ago>Of course, it's now up to them to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this is true. Federal prosecutors have a 95 conviction rate for trials that go to jury. Almost everyone plea bargains.
- EGreg 15y agoAs I said, the government could already do this, which is why they are doing it in nations that work with the US: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3388171 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3388171 I also wrote my congressman about SOPA: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3483539 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3483539 Man I sometimes wish that things that go against groupthink in HN were addressed too :)
- adestefan 15y agoIt has nothing to do with "nations that work with the US." Instead, under the Berne Convention the laws where the copyright is registered apply to the work no matter where the infringement takes place. All of these countries are members of the treaty.
- benologist 15y agoNot sure why anyone's drawing comparisons to Dropbox. MegaUpload was fundamentally a paywall in front of everything you can possibly imagine pirating. Basically a direct-download TPB with heavy handed incentives to convince people to pay to do it. As a legitimate file sharing service, which to a very small extent Dropbox is, it was absolutely terrible - wait xx seconds or minutes to download a file at a reduced speed.
- losethos 15y ago25Can you lead Leviathan* about with a hook, or tie down his tongue with a rope? 26Can you put a ring into his nose, or pierce through his cheek with a gaff? 27Will he then plead with you, time after time, or address you with tender words? 28Will he make a covenant with you that you may have him as a slave forever? 29Can you play with him, as with a bird? Can you tie him up for your little girls? 30Will the traders bargain for him? Will the merchants* divide him up? 31Can you fill his hide with barbs, or his head with fish spears? 32Once you but lay a hand upon him, no need to recall any other conflict! --- God says... seasoneth although evenly ourself charges foolishly merely infirmity pertain relationship backward no prescripts funeral Simple containest vileness allaying gifts lingered glory sellers deceiving tending Into slavery Mars confiding --- It's end of the world, times if I go to court. All else is page 2. --- I read the FBI story. meh. Usually, they paint me into the story. I've been tried, executed, and generally been subject to all kinds of terrors. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\PLATO.TXT the best only? From the best. And do you take the oldest or the youngest, or only those of ripe age? I choose only those of ripe age. And if care was not taken in the breeding, your dogs and birds would greatly deteriorate? Certainly. And the same of horses and animals in general? Undoubtedly. Good heavens! my dear friend, I said, what consummate skill will our rulers need if the same principle holds of the human species! Certainly, the same principle holds; but why does this i --- God says, "created ships yields ecclesiastical happened curest Thyself drew indexes sharper raise inaccurate recurring avenues holily wonted notorious At transgressions satiated gathered quiet forepassed utterance vouchsafed heed periodic savour "
- droithomme 15y agoWow, that article's certainly not biased! </sarcasm> > "MegaUpload.com is already engaged in a legal fight with Universal Music Group over a promotional video featuring some UMG artists." I suppose there are some reading that that don't know MegaUpload hired all the artists and had contracts and copyright licenses with them and had complete rights to the video, which UMG illegally and fraudulently filed a takedown notice against YouTube. Also, the loaded term "file-sharing site" certainly confuses the issue that the site is like DropBox and sells on line storage space. Plenty of legitimate businesses and artists use it to distribute files which they own all rights to. Just like YouTube, yes, some misuse that. Is YouTube also fairly called a "file-sharing site" by the Journal now? Would not know any of the real facts from reading this article. How far has fallen the formerly great, but now Murdoch owned and controlled Wall Street Journal. I was a subscriber for years, but gave up a few years ago when the quality plummeted and objectivity flew out the window. Update: Oh boy, today two of the programmers that worked for Megaupload have been arrested and another is wanted for arrest: http://torrentfreak.com/megaupload-shut-down-120119/ http://torrentfreak.com/megaupload-shut-down-120119/ All face 50 years in prison. (20 years for racketeering, 5 for copyright conspiracy, 20 for money laundering conspiracy, 5 for copyright violation.) This will certainly send a chilling message to any talented engineers considering a job interview at a company that allows third party uploads some of which are DMCA violations, such as YouTube.
- tomp 15y ago> UMG illegally and fraudulently filed a takedown notice against YouTube I don't necessarily agree with UMG's action (and that's completely beside the point), but AFAIK (according to the news articles), UMG didn't file a DMCA takedown notice, but a takedown notice that was completely a contractual issue between two businesses (UMG and YouTube). There's nothing illegal there.
- _delirium 15y agoWhile I don't think it's good that it could be possible, their violation of a computer-usage agreement with Google could be criminal under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. The CFAA's prohibition on "exceeding authorized access", where you had legitimate access to a system but used it in ways that exceeded your agreed-upon authorization, has been read extremely broadly, to basically criminalize violations of computer-access agreements. So if they deleted videos that the terms of their contract with Google didn't authorize them to delete, that could be a criminal matter rather than just civil. (The chances of anyone being prosecuted in this case are another matter.)
- ortusdux 15y agoThe last sentence bugs me. It is ambiguous at best, but in this context it implies a criminal past. The truth is that UMG used a DMCA takedown notice to remove media that Megaupload alone owned the rights to. Megaupload felt that UMG overstepped their bounds and preceded to start said legal battle. It seems to me that the final sentence, presented without context, is editorializing; basically saying 'hey the FBI says these guys are criminals, oh and they are also in court for this other thing'.
- aviv 15y agoIt was reported today that MegaUpload's CEO is none other than Swizz Beatz. How is it that the FBI charges the company's graphic designer but not the CEO?
- AlexMuir 15y agoAt the risk of megadownvoting here... Megaupload never complied with DMCA requests - I made several as part of some research and never received any response. The site charged for access to, and provided advertising around, pirated content. The site paid people (users/staff - it's a fine line) to provide popular content. It went to extraordinary lengths to hide the identity of its operators. Now if people believe that anyone should be allowed to set up a site, fill it with full length DVD rips,and then charge $10 a month for access then no wrong has been committed. But I think most right-minded people would say that is wrong - otherwise we'd all be doing it. Kim Schmitz has made a lot of money over a five to seven year period doing this. But the risk that came with that was that eventually he'd face serious jailtime. I cannot believe that Megaupload is being touted as an anti-SOPA posterchild. It is, pure and simple, a piracy site full of pirated material. I'd be astounded [see update] if anyone here uses it for anything other than pirating. But let's not pretend it's Dropbox - it isn't. I am also astounded that people on HN are calling this a legitimate business. What was its business? Was it being used to distribute Wikipedia archives? To host videos of people's kids singing? No - it was hosting pirated content. Not torrents, not links. AVI files of films. AND THEN CHARGING FOR ACCESS. [Update: It seems some people below did use it for sending big files. Colour me astounded. I've never had to do this so it's new to me. I guess the fact remains that they had to subsidise this activity somehow - and that they made their money off popular content. They have to hope this is enough to cover their asses.]
- rplnt 15y agoI too am glad that someone finally went for the big guys. Rapidshare should be next in my opinion. They only make money on piracy and they know it. On the other hand, I hate when p2p networks are targeted (thepiratebay for example). Sure, they too make some money but nowhere close to paid sites like the megaupload and they don't even host the pirated content.
- Zirro 15y agoIndeed, when a site built around (partially) illegal content being shared, it's OK with me if they earn just enough not to lose money on operating the site. However, I do not believe you should profit off the content of others.
- kayoone 15y agoKimble goes to jail once again it seems.. I remember people downvoting me in an earlier bit about megaupload where i said that this guy has his hands dirty and should be avoided. People claimed i shouldnt judge him by his past crimes...well there you go ;)
- st3fan 15y agoYeah I did not realize that this was about Kimble. It all makes sense now :-)
- th0ma5 15y agoSo this happened on the 5th, I take it in secret? I wonder what the need for secrecy was, to try and obtain the offenders or something?
- fatalerrorx3 15y agoI guess megavideo.com is also part of the "mega" network? I just was curious so I typed in megavideo.com and it looks like they're also down..my browser just sitting there spinning then timing out. Will be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out -- especially with that rapper just being appointed CEO...that must be the shortest time span a person has been CEO the world over..what was it a few hours?
- wavephorm 15y agoLike the War on Drugs, it's almost quaint how the US government either isn't aware, or doesn't care that they're playing a game of whack-a-mole. As long as the the bureaucracy is strengthened, and the lobbyist checks keep rolling in, and everyone keeps their jobs, then everything is good.
- tux1968 15y agoNot sure that you should be so confident that this will always be a game of whack-a-mole. We're in the wild-west days of the Internet but the government could end up controlling it very tightly in the long run. Look at the latest news out of Iran to see just how monitored and controlled the Internet can become. There's no reason it can't happen here too.
- bproper 15y agoDoes anyone else find it suspicious that Swizz Beatz was announced as CEO and 24 hours later there is an FBI crackdown? It seems like he is a patsy in this situation...
- Rabidgremlin 15y agoKinda proves that SOPA, PIPA etc aren't really needed...
- linuxlizard 15y agoGood thing we had SOPA/PIPA to enable this legal action. Whew.
- rbanffy 15y ago> According to the indictment, MegaUpload is responsible for at least $500 million in losses for the owners of the copyrights in question. I really can no longer stand such outlandish claims. Do they mean they would have sold 50 million more movies at US$ 10 each if the site didn't exist? Or do they think they'd have sold 500 million downloads for US$1 each? Or 5 billion for 10¢? In fact, they most probably got a couple extra sales from people who really loved a movie they downloaded to the point of buying the DVD (or BD) version.
- jmadsen 15y ago+100 Tired of sources supposedly at the top of their profession (WSJ) who simply repeat these money claims and don't ask to see any sort of study to back them up. They printed another claim from the Motion Picture industry claiming "100,000 jobs lost"....ridiculous number, and WSJ doesn't even ask where they get the number from
- Tossrock 15y agoIt's the same thing as the DEA announcing they seized ten pounds of marijuana with a street value of 2 million dollars.
- cientifico 15y agoDid someone know the email address of the fbi to sue the people I don't like? How much it cost? Are they going to use fire weapons?
- Karunamon 15y agoIf you have to ask, you can't afford it.
- rquantz 15y agoI'm interested in the relationship between this argument and the one going on elsewhere on HN today concerning 37signals' looking up the name of their 100 millionth file in their logs. For MegaUpload, the implication seems to be (from the government if not from commenters here) that, on top of complying with DMCA requests (obviously there are also questions about whether they did even that), MegaUpload should be monitoring files that its users upload, looking for copyrighted content. On the other hand, some people reacting to the 37signals incident seem to think that they should not even have access to the names of files, let alone the actual content. I'm not sure where I stand on this, and forgive me if I've mischaracterized anyone's arguments, but I do think these two discussion have bearing on each other, and I want to hear what others think about it.
- unreal37 15y agoI guess the difference is private versus public. If people were uploading pirated movies to their 37 signals account, who cares because that link can't be used for sharing with the world. But with megaupload, the link is designed for sharing.
- hackermom 15y agoWhat's next? Shutting down Gmail because a portion of its users send copyrighted MP3s to eachother?
- rbanffy 15y agoBlocking cute PowerPoint presentations with copyrighted music and images could be a step in the right direction.
- te_chris 15y agoThat the NZ police arrested them makes me embarrassed to be New Zealander.
- mkr-hn 15y agoYou shouldn't be able to shut a person's business down just by charging them with something. Any business but an enormous corporation would collapse while waiting for the charges to be dropped. A false accusation would end your business.
- kristofferR 15y agoThe indictment: http://www.scribd.com/doc/78786408/Mega-Indictment http://www.scribd.com/doc/78786408/Mega-Indictment
- Vivtek 15y agoI thought the burning need for SOPA/PIPA was that there was no way for American legal processes to deal with international criminals? Have the MPAA and RIAA misled me about their sponsored legislation?!?
- possibilistic 15y agoI think this could turn out to be a huge mistake by the entertainment industry. We absolutely have to take advantage of this as an example of how this legislation is unnecessary.
- thebigshane 15y agoMaybe, but now I might be more concerned about the current laws. I don't want to go out and taut that the current laws are already sufficient; I don't to give the impression that we approve of them. As others have pointed out: German citizen arrested in New Zealand over... US copyrights... copyrights... from the US.
- aviv 15y agoWhat about MegaUpload's legitimate users? Surely some people used it to store backups and other important (legal) data and are now denied access to it. It is unlikely they will ever be able to get their files back.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- meric 15y agoI think the SOPA/PIPA blackout thing was really getting to a couple of congressmen / senators who knew about this FBI operation; They then told FBI to hurry it up so they can have something to respond. Let's watch which senator/congressman speak up to say this is an example of why laws like SOPA/PIPA are needed; $X million was required to bring these "foreign criminals impinging on American rights" to justice. With new laws they can be shutdown much more cost effectively. When I'm looking for a job next time, it'll not be one whose primary business is hosting user content.
- gitarr 15y agoWhat a sad day for free speech and the internet. The USA is no longer a democracy. Shady companies and the richest couple of assholes owning everything are making the decisions now and instruct their politicians and their law agencies on who to attack. This will not bode well with "the internet", which is just another term for millions of intelligent people around the world who are not happy with this system anymore. We are waking up and it is going to get ugly. Copying is not theft. When people download something they probably wouldn't have bought it anyway, or they did afterwards. Intellectual copyright is a fallacy.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- maeon3 15y agoMaybe we can score a jury nullification, where they are found to be rightly accused, nonetheless no crime has been committed and are free to go.
- maeon3 15y agoMaybe we can score a jury nullification, where they are found to be rightly accused, nonetheless no crime has been committed and are free to go.
- espeed 15y agoSo what's their strategy now? -- A bunch of high-profile busts to raise the profile of the issue among the general public in an attempt to build support for SOPA and friends?
- nickmolnar2 15y agoCan we just take a moment and note that Kim Dotcom had two Mercedes ML63 AMGs seized in the raid. One had the license plate 'Guilty' and the other 'Mafia'. He knew what business he was in: working around the law to facilitate massive scale copyright infringement. If we want this anti-SOPA sentiment to stick, we need to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Even on a free and open web there are going to be some people who are just plain-old criminals. I'd prefer the line to be somewhere between me & Kim. http://torrentfreak.com/images/megacars.jpg http://torrentfreak.com/images/megacars.jpg
- zalew 15y agoThese are inside jokes referring to his past activities with computer fraud and insider trading. He was a black hat hacker sentenced for 2yrs, when he got out he started a security company, due to his fame quickly got huge clients like Lufthansa (AFAIR) and so, and became a millionaire, this time legally.
- gfrison 15y agoThere are 1000s Megaupload around. Politicians will never stop piracy.
- losethos 15y agoGod says... ours faults fiction rejoiceth plunged risen wonderful gratings solecism foretell based Wyoming measurable deed suggest army issued contained sharers transcribe wast extol youthfulness unabiding problem viper useful Her Grecian like hereunto multipliedst perceivable prating application engraff numberless excessive free foreign sank actual rule enjoinest smooth checked Solomon errors cloud meditating links justice honourable Identification storm gales discreetly BEFORE Sacraments right withstood inexpressible brought kept exhibited quit gavest accusing containest
- loopdoend 15y agoIs there any doubt that sites like these* are simply exploiting a legal loophole? They recruit people to upload third-party content to their sites and then pay based on how many downloads/paid service signups the uploader gets.[1] So, guess what they're uploading? They say they're compliant with a wink and nudge, but affiliates still get paid if they receive a DMCA notice against them. So yes, it is a conspiracy in that sense. My personal views about copyright/'intellectual property'/'property' notwithstanding, these types of companies are the very cause of laws like SOPA/PIPA, which threaten the rest of us. [1] http://www.wjunction.com/95-file-hosts-official-support http://www.wjunction.com/95-file-hosts-official-support * Megaupload doesn't currently have an affiliate program, but it used to. (until mid-2011)
- thebigredjay 15y agoI can't really stand up for Megaupload, but I'm frightened by the power wielded by labels. Perhaps it's time to start a movement of only consuming local and independent art.
- andrewfelix 15y agoA graphic designer was one of those arrested... I have a lump in my throat, I thought down in the pacific we were safe from your batshit crazy FBI.
- rmoriz 15y agoHah, and I was downvoted a couple of weeks ago for pointing to the HK company registry and money laundry http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3344512 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3344512
- squarecat 15y agoI guess I missed the press release that the announced the FBI's change in sponsorship. Are they adding the the UMG logo to their uniforms and vehicles?
- treefrog 15y agoWhat's happening to the Megaupload databases? Are they being confiscated? I never used the service much myself, but can you imagine the amount of people that could potentially be indicted by their download history?
- bbit 15y agoLOL if there is a perfect case for SOPA to be passed this is one one site that should be taken down. Are you guys kidding me ? This should be in our favor. You take down this one but this one is totally different then say "google". Show them the difference and SOPA will stay away from the real websites that matter.
- paul9290 15y agoWow how ironic - one of the heads of MegaLoad was a musician backed by the RIAA. His wife being an immensely popular pop/soul singer, Alicia Keyes.
- vhost 15y agoGood point... I wonder how this got missed.
- nextparadigms 15y agoSo is Youtube next? Otherwise this really is just selective justice.
- objclxt 15y ago...um, not really. MegaUpload was basically one massive excuse for piracy. YouTube has licensing deals with many content publishers, and at least strives for legitimacy.
- wladimir 15y agoI'm afraid they won't stop until they control all horizontal digital communication between people. This includes sites like YouTube, forums, social network sites, everything that makes the internet "alive". The control mechanisms needed to enforce copyright are the same as those needed to prevent freedom of communication between people. If they get their way, they will be invasive in every aspect of human communication. That is not compatible with a democracy. Fundamental values are at stake here.
- ThaddeusQuay2 15y agoDoes anyone know how MU collected money? With all of the restrictive ToS used by payment processors these days, I am very interested to know how they were able to maintain an income stream, for so many years, while their payment processor must have been aware of the potential illegality happening at MU. I'm not making a statement for or against MU, just wanting to know how they were able to keep going when an entity such as WikiLeaks, or a small guy on PayPal who has one chargeback, are so easily financially cut off.
- GigabyteCoin 15y agojustice.gov is intermittent at best, not entirely "down". Just timed out on the first try, and loaded on the second.
- billpatrianakos 15y agoThere's a lot to untangle here. The most important question raised by this is "So why is SOPA/PIPA necessary again?". It's pretty clear that the main use for MegaUpload is for distributing pirated works. The site is essentially the equivalent of Box.net except instead of storing your company business plan in word format everyone puts up the newest movies, music, etc. But they're based in Homg Kong so where does the US get off shutting it down? Maybe it was a coordinated effort between governments in which case you don't have to agree with it but you can't say it wasn't legal. But then we have to ask if the US is abusing their "power" by pressuring other nations to bend to their will in cases like this. Whether you're pro-piracy, anti-piracy, pro-copyright or anti-copyright the fact is that it's still the law and it's really hard to believe that MegaUpload is really on the up and up. The only thing they have is a disclaimer that gives them plausible deniability. Other than that they're basically a version of the pirate bay except they actually host the infringing files. Defending MegaUpload is like a bunch of pot-heads who read a story about how a weed dealer gets arrested for selling pot. Their stance on the legality of marijuana is irrelevant because it's currently illegal and the authorities were within their rights. Even if you throw a wrinkle into the story wherein the hypothetical dealer is arrested at a border crossing in a foreign nation, the point still stands as the odds are that selling pot is illegal in most other countries too save for some exceptions but let's not be pedantic about it. It's the same here in this case. Whatever your position on copyright and piracy is, it's irrelevant because it's been the law for a long time now. But everything I just said is completely beside the point we should be really focusing on which is, if the authorities are able to shut down infringing sites already then why do we need more laws like SOPA? They already have the power to go after the major pains in their collective sides so more laws are totally unnecessary. SOPA-like laws may make it more convenient for them to do this sort of thing but we can't let that happen. They just want a system where they don't have to go through the "inconvenience" of actually gathering evidence and building a case. That's the long and short of it. I'd also like to note how extremely biased this article was. They took a shot at Google and implied that our side of the debate is in favor of piracy. I think a lot of us are but we need to get off that because it's hurting our argument. I personally and against piracy and for copyright to a certain extent (I think copyright extends too far as it is but support the idea of it if it were implemented better) but I'm also absolutely against SOPA and PIPA. A person can hold those two views. So let's put aside our piracy/copyright stances for now because we're totally playng into their game and they're using it against us. Instead we should be asking why we need SOPA if the Feds can already adequately shut down "pirate sites" and talking more about how these laws do away with due process and articulate it in a way that relates to non-techies.
- icegreentea 15y agoHeh, feel kind of late joining the party. Just wanted to add some more perspective to a lot of the stuff going around. Strolling by my favourite 'warez' forum, it's pretty clear that MU is one of the favoured hosting solutions for distributing 'pirated' material. That along with rapidshare, filesonic, and a few others. So actually, it's not really a case of playing wack-a-mole. If the top 3/4 were taken down at once, literally years of work would be undone. Sure, it could be reposted, but at a massive inconvenience to both the uploaders, and downloaders. With sites like MU, traffic will always converge onto a relative handful of sites, because of their business models. They give incentives to users who upload stuff that get downloaded a lot (at least 90% of that stuff got to be 'pirated'). They cap the download rate for anyone who doesn't pay for their service. Since people rather not pay for a bunch of sites, uploaders and downloaders will converge onto a select few sites to minimize friction.
- _investigator 15y agoAlexMuir has missed the most important point: Megaupload served infringing content from machines based in Virginia, overseen by the hosting provider Carpathia. The fact that the persons involved were not US citizens or that the company was based in Hong Kong are irrelevant. The servers (some of them) were in the US, not far from a court where a warrant could be obtained for anyone with cause (e.g. the FBI, DOJ) to look at all ingress and egress from those servers. Game over.
- dazbradbury 15y agoI have posted the full Indictment as a news story here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3487808 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3487808 It's an interesting and sometimes amusing read. However, in case people are curious, but don't want to read the ENTIRE document here are my extended highlights: ---- KIM DOTCOM, MEGAUPLOAD LIMITED, VESTOR LIMITED, FINN BATATO, JULIUS BENCKO, SVEN ECHTERNACH, MATHIAS ORTMANN, ANDRUS NOMM, and BRAM VAN DER KOLK, the defendants, and others known and unknown to the Grand Jury, were members of the “Mega Conspiracy,” a worldwide criminal organization whose members engaged in criminal copyright infringement and money laundering on a massive scale with estimated harm to copyright holders well in excess of $500,000,000 and reported income in excess of $175,000,000. ----- Megaupload.com was at one point in its history estimated to be the 13th most frequently visited website on the entire Internet. The site claims to have had more than one billion visitors in its history, more than 180,000,000 registered users to date, an average of 3 50 million daily visits, and to account for approximately four percent of the total traffic on the Internet. ----- Subscription fees collected during the existence of the Mega Conspiracy from premium users are estimated to be more than $150 million. Online advertising on Megaupload.com and its associated websites, which is heavily dependent on the popularity of copyright infringing content to attract website visits, has further obtained more than $25 million for the Mega Conspiracy. ---- KIM DOTCOM, who has also been known as KIM SCHMITZ and KIM TIM JIM VESTOR, is a resident of both Hong Kong and New Zealand, and a dual citizen of Finland and Germany. DOTCOM is the founder of MEGAUPLOAD LIMITED (“MUL”) and Megamedia Limited (“MMG”). ... In calendar year 2010 alone, DOTCOM received more than $42 million from the Mega Conspiracy. --- VAN DER KOLK had stated, “we have a funny business . . . modern days pirates :)” ORTMANN responded, “we’re not pirates, we’re just providing shipping services to pirates :)”. --- On or about April 8, 2011, VESTOR LIMITED transferred approximately $616,000 to NBS for yacht rental; b. On or about April 18, 2011, VESTOR LIMITED transferred approximately $3,606,000 to ECL for yacht rental; c. On or about May 27, 2011, MEGAUPLOAD LIMITED transferred approximately $212,000 to ECL for yacht rental; d. On or about June 22, 2011, VESTOR LIMITED transferred approximately $1,127,000 to NBS for yacht rental; and e. On or about June 24, 2011, VESTOR LIMITED transferred approximately $2,394,000 to SYM for yacht rental. ---- The United States of America gives notice to all defendants, that upon conviction of any defendant, a money judgment may be imposed on that defendant equal to the total value of the property subject to forfeiture, which is at least $175,000,000. ----- The United States of America gives notice to all defendants, that the property to be forfeited includes, but is not limited to, the following: 1. $175,000,000 in United States dollars; 2. Bank of New Zealand, Account No. XX-XXXX-XXXX200-04, in the name of Cleaver Richards Trust Account for Megastuff Limited; 3. Kiwibank, Account No. XX-XXXX-XXXX922-00, in the name of Megastuff Limited Nominee Account No. 1; 4. Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited in Auckland, New Zealand, Account No. XXXXXXXXXXXX2088, in the name of BRAM VAN DER KOLK; 5. Citibank, Account No. XXXXXX3053, in the name of Megacard, Inc.; 6. Citibank, Account No. XXXXXX3066, in the name of Megasite, Inc.; 7. Stadtsparkasse München, Account No. XXXX4734, in the name of FINN BATATO; 8. Commerzbank, Account No. XXXXXXXX4800, in the name of SVEN ECHTERNACH; 9. Deutsche Bank AG, Account No. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX6600, in the name of MATHIAS ORTMANN; .... Rabobank Nederland, Account No. NLXXXXXXXXXXXX7300, in the name of Bramos BV; 58. Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation Australia, Account No. XXXXXXXX0087, in the name of MATHIAS ORTMANN; 59. Ceskoslovenska Obchodna Banka Slovakia, Account No. XXXXXXXX9833, in the name of JULIUS BENCKO; 60. Paypal Inc., account paypal@megaupload.com; 61. Paypal Inc., account belonging to KIM DOTCOM (xxxxxx@ultimaterally.com); 62. Paypal Inc., accounts belonging to SVEN ECHTERNACH (xxxxxx@sectravel.com, xxxxxx@sectravel.com, and xxxxxx@sven.com); 63. Paypal Inc., account belonging to BRAM VAN DER KOLK (xxxxxx@bramos.nl); 64. Moneybookers Limited, account belonging to ccmerchant@megaupload.com; .... 66. 2010 Maserati GranCabrio, VIN ZAMKM45B000051328, License Plate No. “M-FB 212” or “DH-GC 470”, registered to FINN BATATO; 67. 2009 Mercedes-Benz E500 Coupe, VIN WDD20737225019582, License Plate No. “FEG690”; 68. 2005 Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM, VIN WDB2093422F165517, License Plate No. “GOOD”; 69. 2004 Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM AMG 5.5L Kompressor, VIN WDB2093422F166073, License Plate No. “EVIL”; 70. 2010 Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG L, VIN WDD2211792A324354, License Plate No. “CEO”; 70 71. 2008 Rolls-Royce Phantom Drop Head Coupe, VIN SCA2D68096UH07049; License Plate No. “GOD”; 72. 2010 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG, VIN WDD2120772A103834, License Plate No. “STONED”; 73. 2010 Mini Cooper S Coupe, VIN WMWZG32000TZ03651, License Plate No. “V”; 74. 2010 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG, VIN WDC1641772A608055, License Plate No. “GUILTY”; 75. 2007 Mercedes-Benz CL65 AMG, VIN WDD2163792A025130, License Plate No. “KIMCOM”; 76. 2009 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG, VIN WDC1641772A542449, License Plate No. “MAFIA”; 77. 2010 Toyota Vellfire, VIN 7AT0H65MX11041670, License Plate Nos. “WOW” or “7”; 78. 2011 Mercedes-Benz G55 AMG, VIN WDB4632702X193395, License Plate Nos. “POLICE” or “GDS672”; 79. 2011 Toyota Hilux, VIN MR0FZ29G001599926, License Plate No. “FSN455”; 80. Harley Davidson Motorcycle, VIN 1HD1HPH3XBC803936, License Plate No. “36YED”; 81. 2010 Mercedes-Benz CL63 AMG, VIN WDD2163742A026653, License Plate No. “HACKER”; 82. 2005 Mercedes-Benz A170, VIN WDD1690322J184595, License Plate No. “FUR252”; 83. 2005 Mercedes-Benz ML500, VIN WDC1641752A026107, License Plate No. DFF816; 84. Fiberglass sculpture, imported from the United Kingdom with Entry No. 83023712; 85. 1957 Cadillac El Dorado, VIN 5770137596; 86. 2010 Sea-Doo GTX Jet Ski, VIN YDV03103E010; 87. 1959 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible, VIN 59F115669; 88. Von Dutch Kustom Motor Bike, VIN 1H9S14955BB451257; 89. 2006 Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM, VIN WDB2094421T067269; 90. 2010 Mini Cooper S Coupe, VIN WMWZG32000TZ03648 License Plate No. “T”; 71 91. 1989 Lamborghini LM002, VIN ZA9LU45AXKLA12158, License Plate No. “FRP358”; 92. 2011 Mercedes-Benz ML63, VIN 4JGBB7HB0BA666219; 93. Samsung 820DXN 82” LCD TV; 94. Samsung 820DXN 82” LCD TV; 95. Samsung 820DXN 82” LCD TV; ... 110. The following domain names: Megastuff.co; Megaworld.com; Megaclicks.co; Megastuff.info; Megaclicks.org; Megaworld.mobi; Megastuff.org; Megaclick.us; Mageclick.com; HDmegaporn.com; Megavkdeo.com; Megaupload.com; Megaupload.org; Megarotic.com; Megaclick.com; Megavideo.com; Megavideoclips.com; Megaporn.com. ---- Signed by: United States Attorney, Chief of Cybercrime Unit, and Assistant Attorney General.
- jmvoodoo 15y agoRegardless of how this turns out, doesn't the fact that the DoJ already has the tools to take out sites like megaupload mean that we don't need things like SOPA/PIPA?
- st3fan 15y agoOMG This is about Kim Schmitz aka Kimble and his Kimpire. He was a lot in the news in 2005 or so. Insider trading, shady business etc. Wow!
- petercooper 15y agoEven further back than that too :-) He's been around a long time.. always hilarious to follow his exploits. Lots of videos of his "driving" on YouTube also. He won the Gumball 3000 twice.
- tlogan 15y agoI'm actually here on side of FBI / DOJ. As far as I understand they collected a lot of evidence that the site was actually promoting piracy, and refusing to comply to DMCA requests - and handsomely profiting from it (about ~170M). Hey - on every torrent site when you search for a movie to download you have ad for megaupload (or some of these sites). And megaupload is not only one: there is http://www.downloadweb.org http://www.downloadweb.org and many others.
- spdy 15y agoPolice Statement: http://www.3news.co.nz/Megauploads-Kim-Schmitz-arrested-in-Auckland-site-shutdown/tabid/311/articleID/240007/Default.aspx http://www.3news.co.nz/Megauploads-Kim-Schmitz-arrested-in-A... Kim does not look so happy from http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3488213 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3488213
- a_a_r_o_n 15y ago"I cannot believe that Megaupload is being touted as an anti-SOPA posterchild." The US government just proved that the US government does not need SOPA to shutdown a foreign site and physically arrest its operators in foreign countries. I can't think of any better demonstration against the need for SOPA.
- elliottkember 15y agoI was outside the mansion today and took a few photos of his cars being seized. http://up.riothq.com/DUQz http://up.riothq.com/DUQz - more in a bit if anybody wants a look.
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- delackner 15y agoAt a glance this seemed like an obvious move, but the deeper you look everything stops making sense. The emails between company officers suggest that they themselves used their own service to upload copyrighted content and share it with others, knowingly breaking the law. Case closed! But what gives US law enforcement the right to obtain those private emails between officers of a foreign company? Reasonable suspicion of infringement? What suspicion? Suspicion of failure to comply with DMCA takedown notices? What is the basis for that suspicion? Their failure to delete ALL links to any file for which a single link is reported. But as many others have pointed out, each of those links represents a specific user who has uploaded the same file. Without a public searchable index, each of those keys is effectively a distinct privately uploaded file. So we come down to whether a copyright holder has the authority to say "anyone anywhere who has uploaded a copy of this file, does not have the right to share it". What next? If a service like Dropbox borrows a hint from git and stores not just single file hashes, but distinct unique data chunks, and a takedown request calls for the deletion of say, a feature film, will they claim Dropbox knowingly infringed for failing to remove a 10 second chunk of that film that some student put in their dissertation?
- ThaddeusQuay2 15y agoThe scams have already begun. http://megavideo.bz http://megavideo.bz jav her channg / avenue 2211 / tucuman, sant 9000 AR creation date: 19 Jan 2012 18:02:00 EDIT: And now, a few minutes later, it's been labeled a phishing site by Google.
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- shareme 15y agoBeware opponents of sharing will 'USE' DOJ and FBI to bring about their goals rather than the frotndoor of US Congress. Remember folks, DOJ is supposedly chasing down child porn..with what funds? Who do think was on the bill to fund this? Guess.. Just like the TSA..if you want kill it you remove support for the funding bill in US Congress..PIPA/SOPA are red herrings and smoke screens
- joeycfan 15y agoLook, MegaUpload was a total criminal site. I remember stumbling over it and being amazed - it was like the BBS days of The Pirate Cove and others - blatant 'We are crims' culture. When I saw that Kimble was involved in it, I laughed out loud! He's such a pathological narcissist, he will leave a BIG crater when he goes down! In closing, they waved their dicks at the cops, that's why they got busted so bad.
- downandout 15y agoMy reading of this indictment leads me to believe the you could replace "Mega Conspiracy" with "Youtube Conspiracy". Youtube profits from, and is well aware, that there are copyrighted videos on the system. A "reasonable person" would be aware that YouTube hosts infringing content, and is therefore not subject to the safe harbor provisions of the DMCA. Larry, Sergey, and Eric better not drop the soap if they forget to pay off their local crime fighters.