18 ms·

Why 'Atomic Habits' may not be working for you

203 points by krisys 4y ago

urbandw311er 4y ago
I can’t speak for anyone else, but the this post almost perfectly describes the sort of horrible, addicted, easily distracted and habit-driven state I seem to have lapsed into. So I’ll definitely try what the author suggests and see if it helps.
- firsttimebigboy 4y ago
  I feel like I'm in the same state. Hopefully this works for me as well.
Arubis 4y ago
Extreme tl;dr: build a meditation practice before worrying about anything else.
- senectus1 4y ago
  I still don't get this meditation thing.
  - hunter-gatherer 4y ago
    I honestly think a 30 minute walk 2x/day with nothing besides maybe your dog will get you where you need to go.
    - slickdork 4y ago
      that's kind of exactly what meditation is. Not having a phone/tv/screen/book/human taking your attention.
      - d-us-vb 4y ago
        And somehow pedestrian scenery doesn't take one's attention?
    - obscurette 4y ago
      This is exactly my experience as well, but there is a problem though. Most of people in the world just don't have a luxury I have - take a walk with my dog in the woods any moment I want. Most of people in the world don't have a luxury to switch environments in the way I have. Meditation is useful for people living in noisy (in all possible ways) environments they can't escape.
    - CTDOCodebases 4y ago
      I think you are confusing meditation with relaxation.
  - wpietri 4y ago
    I get two big things out of it. One is practice in managing thoughts and feelings. If you just sit and breathe, you'll begin to notice how much the mind wanders, how much thoughts randomly arise and pinball around your head. Meditation gives you a lot of practice in not getting caught up in that. The other is what I think of as self-instrumentation. As with any sort of performance tuning or debugging, the foundation is paying attention to what's actually going on. Meditation has greatly increased my ability to introspect, which helps me solve a lot of things that in the past were mysteries to me.
    - galaxyLogic 4y ago
      Is there any theory of why meditation is beneficial? I guess most meditation could be described as "minimizing verbal thoughts". Why is minimizing thoughts better than maximizing them for instance? Is there any theory of how meditation offers evolutionary benefits?
      - throw_away1525 4y ago
        Meditation isn't really about minimizing thoughts. You can't stop thoughts from arising, its just something that your brain does. Meditation is more about training yourself to not attach to those thoughts, to let them go. And that has huge benefits - a lot of the stress and suffering in life we experience in life is due to becoming attached to our thoughts. The book Mindfulness in Plain English is a great introduction to mediation if you are curious.
        j_maffe 4y ago
        When you say to no attach to those thoughts, do you mean all of them? Cause I've felt detached with what's going on in my mind several times before, and they've been as unproductive as when I'm overwhelmed with thoughts, even if it is more peaceful.
        throw_away1525 4y ago
        There is a lot of nuance to this and if you are really curious, you should check out Mindfulness in Plain English... you can find it free online. But, a quick, short answer - meditation is like going to the gym for your brain. In meditation, you practice detaching from thoughts. A practical example: Let's say you have a rocky relationship with your boss or a colleague. Maybe they say something you perceive as a slight while grabbing a coffee in the morning. Instead of fixating on it all day and letting it disturb your work, you just let it go. Not attaching to our thoughts doesn't mean we can't focus very hard on things - in fact, letting your negative thoughts go is what is going to allow you to focus hard on your work the rest of the day! (Also, there are many types of meditation, this is just one form of meditation... again, lots of nuance here that is hard to get across in this format.)
  - betterburnout 4y ago
    When we start, I think the name "meditation" is misleading. It's what we have left when we feel overwhelmed. Sit and breathe. It's interesting to try to do something so simple, so complicated.
  - CTDOCodebases 4y ago
    It's a practice that's best understood by doing with zero expectation.
ImaCake 4y ago
> After becoming a father and undertaking a major rewrite at work, I had fallen off my ‘good habits’ wagon and was having a very tough time returning to my earlier state This doesn’t sound like failure to me, it sounds like the normal consequences of your life becoming busier. Of course it is hard to resume those habits, especially if your life is still stressful and busy. Maybe we should consider our own limits and be more accepting of why we might fall into bad habits. This obsession with balance and productivity does a lot of damage. As a final point, everyone has a different tolerance for stress and productivity. But western morals assume all people are equal and any failing are thus a moral failure. This harms those of us who, through random environment + genetics have different strengths and weaknesses. Many ADHDers go through life thinking of themselves as shit people because they can never even get close to the moral standard of balance.
- TheHumanist 4y ago
  Every day is so frazzled and at the end of the day feels as though nothing has been accomplished. I hate having ADHD.
  - sam1r 4y ago
    I can totally empathize and truly hope you are enveloped within a pro-marijuana community to shut your mind off at night.
    - TheHumanist 4y ago
      I mean... I have no issue getting herb haha But, it doesn't really have that kind of effect on me... just kind of amplifies my anxieties that are produced by the constant frantic state I am in with my ADHD :-/
  - ImaCake 4y ago
    Yeah, I was recently diagnosed. Its awful, but I do like that I no longer feel I should also feel bad that I struggle.
- deleted 4y ago
rcarr 4y ago
Seems like the author missed: https://jamesclear.com/how-to-break-a-bad-habit https://jamesclear.com/how-to-break-a-bad-habit
theusus 4y ago
Is it a law that should work for everyone?
KVFinn 4y ago
I tried so hard to make Atomic Habits work for me. It was helpful, but I found also it really helpful to realize places where it doesn't work for me and I can get a lot of benefit from leaning into a lack of consistency. Basically the experience this YouTuber explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2sS00egAzg&t=22s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2sS00egAzg&t=22s
- jbverschoor 4y ago
  Very similar for me
- Tao3300 4y ago
  I kept forgetting to read the damn book, and then I lost it.
  - Falkon1313 4y ago
    Same with me, just couldn't get into the habit of reading a little bit of it each day. I never got done reading 'Getting Things Done' either.
- dack 4y ago
  I found that the missing piece for me was simply being kinder to myself when I slip up on some habit. Like, I tell myself "chill out - so you didn't go to the gym today. You're set back by one day. Just try it tomorrow." Maybe it's similar to your leaning into lack of consistency. Previously I was so hard on myself when I made mistakes or wasn't up to my own (very high) standards, that I would quit after a while because it was a horrible experience. Now, no matter how many mistakes I make, I don't beat myself up about it and I keep trying the next day. And I am seeing that not only am I getting more things done, but I am actually enjoying life more day-to-day, which is the ultimate goal imo.
  - KVFinn 4y ago
    >I found that the missing piece for me was simply being kinder to myself when I slip up on some habit. Like, I tell myself "chill out - so you didn't go to the gym today. You're set back by one day. Just try it tomorrow." Maybe it's similar to your leaning into lack of consistency. I totally get what you are talking about too. Sometimes I remind myself: "If it's something that is worth doing, it's still worth doing badly (Or inconsistently)."
ahansen 4y ago
Great post. I feel like I've gone through a similar cycle, but I've found that journaling rather then meditation was what I was drawn to. Sitting down and writing about what I'm worried about and what my priorities are has proven to be a great balancing force in my life. Though I'm still not doing it too regularly, I notice quite a lot of mental clarity after a short session.
kras143 4y ago
So much of what you said resonated with me. I did try meditation, and it was very helpful. Many have the opinion that meditation is something mysterious and that it is hard to get what it means, but IMO, they should keep trying. Like any muscle, our brain needs training. Once you start seeing that you have control over your thoughts, I think you will "get it."
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
braindead_in 4y ago
Meditation has changed me profoundly as well. I started with 2 minutes and now I do at least 1 hour everyday. It actually all started with weed. From there to yoga, then meditation, then shrooms and finally spirituality and Nondualism. I not in control of anything anymore; that delusion has gone away. This journey of self discovery is turning out to be the greatest adventure of my life. I can't even recognise the person I was 4 years ago. I've left that person far behind.
- uquercia 4y ago
  Getting completely changed after 4 years of life under influence of substances does not seem a perfect example…
  - 2-718-281-828 4y ago
    Real life never produces perfect examples. If consumption of psycho active substances in her/his life is unhealthy and dependent then I would also question any conclusions about that journey. But as far as the comment goes she/he doesn't provide any information on that. For many people drugs are entry point to deeper reflection and there is nothing wrong about that especially if one leaves the drugs behind at some point.
Ambolia 4y ago
This works sometimes, but sometimes meditation brings up a lot of underlying problems, both mental and physical. That is good if you have the time and energy to deal with them, but if you don't it can complicate your life. Specially when you live in a society where meditation is not an engrained part of it, so you have no social structure that tells you which meditation experts are good and which are scams. For me it brought up that I'm carrying a lot of tension and knots in the back and shoulders, which is a good thing to realise, but during meditation it would build up a lot of "pressure" or "tension" on my head, which according to some traditions is "bad". According to other traditions you just "power through" with more meditation. I have explored different things but reduced how much I meditate for now.
posharma 4y ago
The author says meditation is the solution and describes the effects it had on him. However, I didn't quite get the why (even if I ignore the how) - why did it work for him and will it work the same way for others? Besides, meditation itself is a habit and one that is the easiest to ignore as it doesn't bring immediate benefits (lacks instant gratification). This was great writing but for me it lacked the scientific rigor. It's great that it worked for the author. Kudos for that!
- mindhash 4y ago
  In my experience in order to build or break a habit you must be able to tie the action to its immediate results. It can be placebo but in your mind that association must settle in. Meditation for a lot of people creates a state of calm afterwords. Mainly if you breathe at a lower that 6 breaths per minute. The calmness likely leads to better decisions and helps that way. It looked like the author has been overwhelmed with stresses of life. Meditation helped to apply breaks and steer the wheel.
- vidyesh 4y ago
  I inferred that meditation helped them to understand surface thoughts vs deep thoughts as generally surface thoughts are loud, immediate and what create bad habits. By being able to discard those during meditation, they were able to work on deep thoughts and make enough time for those instead of getting occupied by the unnecessary(bad) habits. > Besides, meditation itself is a habit and one that is the easiest to ignore as it doesn't bring immediate benefits (lacks instant gratification) But thats the crux of building good habits, one needs to teach themselves to not run for instant gratification. Precisely, this article. Atomic Habits try to teach that you to by various habit building techniques in the book. It teaches you how to harness this instant gratification idea to build good habits slowly yet in a way that appeals that part of your brain. The author is trying to refute this exact thing, that these all work for a while until it all comes crashing down and it becomes really difficult to break away from bad habits.
sussexby 4y ago
In the ruthless monetisation of all things, it feels capitalism has done to our behaviour/thoughts/habits what it has done to any other resource - how can I maximise financial output from this thing at the cost of something else? Battery farming and animal welfare. Public transport and social mobility. Processed food and nutritional value. The human mind is just the next frontier where the battle to make everything you do something that is “valuable” where value = economic output. I’m stressed because I’ve been in that place for too long. I started the year reading James Clear’s book only to immediately follow up with 4000 Weeks as the antidote. Atomic habits are great if you want to push the boundaries of human achievement. The big realisation for me (and perhaps many of us) is “I’m not trying to do that”. All the good books on performance, habits, marginal gains reference all the contexts where pushing boundaries is the normal state - Formula 1 pit crews working together to minimise time, Southwest Airlines and their 20min turn arounds, the British Cycling team and the pursuit of TdF/Olympic success. My personal belief is we’re inviting in a dangerous logic to one of the few remaining bastions of our humanity. Float. Be free. Don’t force your mind to do something it cannot or does not want to do. Sure there’s a balance, but there is a threshold beyond which you’re deviating from your natural wants and wishes which equates to stress. Too much of that and you’re going to have a bad time.
camillomiller 4y ago
As a mildly self-disciplined person myself, I really don’t understand why we need to be so fixated in becoming this mostly unattainable, predictable, hard to maintain, yet boring and repetitive super-version of ourselves. The only thing that’s good for is to show off to others how undisciplined and bad they are. Moreover atomic habits and all these “philosophies” are based on a profound misconception or rather a disingenuous marketing tenet—that your life is not “better” yet only because you haven’t followed this or that new improved step-by-step recipe for happiness. Life is a messy dynamic system constantly veering towards instability. It’s better enjoyed in its complicatedness and unpredictability, not by living by a strictly structured code of conduit that will make you feel like shit when the aforementioned messiness will inevitably throw a wrench into your illusion of a well-oiled machine.
- pprotas 4y ago
  Personally, it’s not about becoming boring or unpredictable. I wanted to learn more about self-discipline because my life consisted of work, trash food, scroll phone and sleep. I am a lazy person by nature, and this is what my life becomes if I don’t discipline myself. It made me unhappy! The book actually gave me some practical tips on how to stop living a life like that and actually do the things I want to do. Stuff like working up the courage and routine to go to the gym in the morning, or spend my evenings on practicing my favorite hobbies instead of scrolling the phone. Finally, some discipline!
  - beaker52 4y ago
    If I’ve learnt anything about myself, it’s that I’ll read the book, get motivated, enjoy a period of improvement, fall off the horse and be back here scrolling HN in bed in a few weeks. The best improvement I’ve found is to just simply stop caring. Then I’m more happy, then it’s easier to do the things that need to do. The things that don’t get done? Well, they just weren’t meant to be - oops. Maybe one day, but forcing it won’t help.
    - galleywest200 4y ago
      Atomic Habits is the only self-help book that actually stuck with me. Most of these books simply provide you with faux-epiphanies -- but James Clear in Atomic Habits not only provides concrete, actionable, steps he also supplies examples of his own use of these in his life.
leobg 4y ago
The author of that book has been writing about behavior for years. And yet when I once sent him a picture of B. F. Skinner, he didn’t know who that was. If you really think you need to optimize yourself, I’d recommend to skip the millennial bestseller lists and to closer to the source. A few recommendations: Self Help Without the Hype (R. Epstein) Tiny Habits (BJ Fogg) Self-Directed Behavior: Self-Modification for Personal Adjustment (Watson/Tharp) Don't Shoot the Dog (Pryor) Really, just the first one will likely be enough.
- epups 4y ago
  Skinner and behaviorism has not been relevant for the analysis of human behavior since 1959.
  - leobg 4y ago
    That is the mainstream view. I know. And yet books like Atomic Habits rank way up there in the bestseller lists. Skinner is probably the most underestimated figure in 20th century science. His ideas are generating billions in value to this day. And yet the sentiment most people hold about him is the one you just shared. I’m on my phone and can’t go into details. But the whole aspect of gamification - in games, social media, TikTok, productivity apps, learning apps - is very much OG Skinner. And ChatGPT reinforcement learning? Behaviorism applied to virtual agents.
  - leobg 4y ago
    BTW, relevant to OP’s question: > Skinner was the happiest, most productive, most creative person I've ever known, largely because he was so skilled at self-management. That’s from the first book I mentioned.
  - kaushikc 4y ago
    He very likely not be "irrelevant" for the foreseeable future when people speak about behaviour.
- Handprint4469 4y ago
  Is there any way to get the first book in e-book format? I only see options to buy a used physical copy, and international shipments to my country are... untrustworthy, at best.
revskill 4y ago
Just ask ChatGPT, it said "mental stimulation" is a bad habit: Mental stimulation refers to engaging in activities that challenge the brain and promote cognitive function. It can involve a wide range of activities that are intellectually stimulating and require active mental engagement. Some examples of mental stimulation include: - Learning a new skill or language - Playing brain games, such as Sudoku or crossword puzzles - Reading books, newspapers, or magazines - Engaging in creative activities, such as painting or writing - Participating in educational programs or classes - Solving problems and puzzles - Engaging in debates or discussions - Playing musical instruments or listening to music - Learning a new sport or physical activity - Traveling to new places and experiencing different cultures
- sokoloff 4y ago
  What part of that suggests it was/is a bad habit?
k__ 4y ago
I learned the reason all these systems didn't work for me was that I had ADHD my whole life, but only got diagnosed in my late 30s.
ravagat 4y ago
I think it's a great book for average people. I read it and found it to be a basic breakdown greatly simplified. > That's when I realised it wasn't working quite as well as it had the first time. This is exactly what the book is great at. From the discussions I've been a part of, the book did a great job of really breaking down and creating a system for folks to achieve things. The author did note that the books' success is part of the rise of the industry its a part of and that's one thing I think a lot of people who discuss this book (for good or bad) overlook. Whatever the ROI has been for the book will always be individually contextual.
martindbp 4y ago
Changing habits have become an insurmountable task. In my 20s and early 30s I'd go on diets, start going to the gym, learn a new language, work on side projects. Since having a child I'm just struggling getting enough sleep and keeping the apartment clean, there's no energy left for reinventing myself or changing habits... It also becomes harder and harder to start something because from experience I know I'll eventually fall off the wagon. Hopefully it gets better once kids are more self sufficient...
- en3r0 4y ago
  It will, but it might take more will power and discipline to make those things happen than it used to.
jbjbjbjb 4y ago
That’s what James Clear would call a keystone habit
SergeAx 4y ago
I just can't shake off the feeling that all those "be productive" techniques are nothing else than means to force oneself to do something one don't want at all. Human psyche will take a serious tall on these activities, even if one have a positive reinforcement system well set around them.
- 2-718-281-828 4y ago
  Life is often to a large part about doing sth you don't want at all but you simply have to do or face consequences which are harsher than those somethings. Or surprisingly not that bad at all and you come to realize your model of life was lacking. Either way - no technique designed for becoming more disciplined will help you distinguish between what is worth doing or not. I put all my eggs into the meditation basket. Meditation makes me less anxious, my mind clearer and more focused. All those qualities help me understand better what I want and need and then act upon it even if doing so is uncomfortable.
lumb63 4y ago
Most people I know consider me a “disciplined” person. I’m a fitness junkie who has very rarely missed a workout in the last 10 years. I maintain a not-as-strict-as-I’d-like-but-seemingly-better-than-most diet. I prioritize habits that help me or that I enjoy like sleep and reading. There are days I do not want to. There are days when I am tempted. There are days when I am depressed, busy, etc. Things get in the way. I am not perfect, and do not claim to be. That said, what helps me with adherence, and I know this will sound overly simplistic and un-helpful, is I just do the things. I have a friend who is also into fitness, and we agree that the most important workouts to do are the ones you don’t want to do. They build the discipline to do things you don’t want to in the moment, in order to satisfy your higher, long term goals. And we agree that the best way to do those workouts is to…do them. Go put on some gym clothes and get to the gym, and your mind and body will hardly argue with you that it doesn’t want to work out anymore. Some of the ability to do that, I expect, comes from the fact that I am an “all or nothing” person. I don’t do moderation well. I do well when I can do something with all my intensity. For instance, when dieting, I find it much easier to adhere to an incredibly strict and mundane diet than to try to enjoy my food. This ties into the idea of having and/or making the circumstances in which one can be disciplined. There is an excellent post here [0] that discusses what we need psychologically in order to actually do things. Stress, other priorities, distractions, etc., all impede our capabilities. For the author of this blog post, they found that meditation cleared their mind and that is what enabled them to lower their stress and return to better habits. They also discuss 16:8 IF, which I also do and find to be a huge boost to my focus (I joke that eating is my kryptonite). I also find having a rigorous schedule helps me; the activities I (in my mind) “have” to do, e.g. work out, work, etc., are not optional: they’re built in. I do not know why these techniques work, and there are many others which do as well. I hypothesize that these little and easy “mini habits” or tweaks to one’s way of living facilitate accomplishing goals. As an aside, discipline is an area that I want to work on in my life! There are a few books I’d like to read. One is Discipline Equals Freedom. I think the incredibly hard headed military guys (see also David Goggins) are the ones closer to the right track (or at least what makes sense to me) than the sciencey types who theorycraft infinite nudges to encourage people who “want” to be disciplined to be disciplined. I am no fan of Nike, but “just do it” really resonates with me. [0]: https://macrofactorapp.com/behavior-change/?ck_subscriber_id=1817008140 https://macrofactorapp.com/behavior-change/?ck_subscriber_id...
TipiKoivisto 4y ago
Atomic Habits gives the illusion that changing habits is easy and will change your life - that's why the book probably sells. But it's BS like most marketing and stories. Changing habits will change your life, but you need to learn the process and know yourself. You learn the best when you fail, but that's when people give up trying. The whole idea of habit formation is that it sucks to do something different and new... Until it's not new anymore. The author certainly did the most biggest mistake: Too much, too fast. => Focus only on Meditation. Bingo! One habit at the time, build the habit as slowly as possible. Everyone can do it. But they... Just don't. Disclosure: Founder of Habinator Health Coach app.
wsxaz 4y ago
I often meditate before bed, and I have to admit that it is very useful for improving sleep quality
- boovii 4y ago
  Does your meditation technique differ from the author's? If yes, would you please describe it.
icoder 4y ago
The term missing in this story, although described between the lines almost perfectly, as I see it, is willpower. There's a book about it with the same title.
thenerdhead 4y ago
> After becoming a father and undertaking a major rewrite at work, I had fallen off my ‘good habits’ wagon and was having a very tough time returning to my earlier state. Becoming a father makes you have to practice discipline everyday. You don't get time to just waste time like you used to. You have to schedule it. While Atomic Habits is a good book and best seller for a reason, the change we go through as individuals is much more telling of successful sticking habits. Atomic Habits just makes you a little more aware which can also be done through any awareness practice (meditation, journaling, reading, etc). > After that, I never bothered to track any of them. After a certain point, your habits become...habit. You don't need to track them. That's because you're constantly aware of them and you've outgrown habit formation books. I wrote an adjacent piece about what happens when your life operating system receives a breaking change like having kids: https://jondouglas.dev/lifes-operating-system/ https://jondouglas.dev/lifes-operating-system/
frodowtf 4y ago
Regarding the WhatsApp point: I recently archived all chats except the one with my gf. Now I don't get notifications but can opt-in to read stuff if I want.
freshbakedbread 4y ago
One completely free iOS app that I found to be helpful is Mindfulness Coach, developed by the US department of veteran affairs. It was made to help veterans and service members with PTSD. It offers a collection of timed, very minimal, very easy to follow guided mindfulness sessions.

203 points by krisys 4y ago

I can’t speak for anyone else, but the this post almost perfectly describes the sort of horrible, addicted, easily distracted and habit-driven state I seem to have lapsed into. So I’ll definitely try what the author suggests and see if it helps.

firsttimebigboy 4y ago
I feel like I'm in the same state. Hopefully this works for me as well.

Arubis 4y ago

Extreme tl;dr: build a meditation practice before worrying about anything else.

senectus1 4y ago
I still don't get this meditation thing.
- hunter-gatherer 4y ago
  I honestly think a 30 minute walk 2x/day with nothing besides maybe your dog will get you where you need to go.
  - slickdork 4y ago
    that's kind of exactly what meditation is. Not having a phone/tv/screen/book/human taking your attention.
    - d-us-vb 4y ago
      And somehow pedestrian scenery doesn't take one's attention?
  - obscurette 4y ago
    This is exactly my experience as well, but there is a problem though. Most of people in the world just don't have a luxury I have - take a walk with my dog in the woods any moment I want. Most of people in the world don't have a luxury to switch environments in the way I have. Meditation is useful for people living in noisy (in all possible ways) environments they can't escape.
  - CTDOCodebases 4y ago
    I think you are confusing meditation with relaxation.
- wpietri 4y ago
  I get two big things out of it. One is practice in managing thoughts and feelings. If you just sit and breathe, you'll begin to notice how much the mind wanders, how much thoughts randomly arise and pinball around your head. Meditation gives you a lot of practice in not getting caught up in that. The other is what I think of as self-instrumentation. As with any sort of performance tuning or debugging, the foundation is paying attention to what's actually going on. Meditation has greatly increased my ability to introspect, which helps me solve a lot of things that in the past were mysteries to me.
  - galaxyLogic 4y ago
    Is there any theory of why meditation is beneficial? I guess most meditation could be described as "minimizing verbal thoughts". Why is minimizing thoughts better than maximizing them for instance? Is there any theory of how meditation offers evolutionary benefits?
    - throw_away1525 4y ago
      Meditation isn't really about minimizing thoughts. You can't stop thoughts from arising, its just something that your brain does. Meditation is more about training yourself to not attach to those thoughts, to let them go. And that has huge benefits - a lot of the stress and suffering in life we experience in life is due to becoming attached to our thoughts. The book Mindfulness in Plain English is a great introduction to mediation if you are curious.
      - j_maffe 4y ago
        When you say to no attach to those thoughts, do you mean all of them? Cause I've felt detached with what's going on in my mind several times before, and they've been as unproductive as when I'm overwhelmed with thoughts, even if it is more peaceful.
        throw_away1525 4y ago
        There is a lot of nuance to this and if you are really curious, you should check out Mindfulness in Plain English... you can find it free online. But, a quick, short answer - meditation is like going to the gym for your brain. In meditation, you practice detaching from thoughts. A practical example: Let's say you have a rocky relationship with your boss or a colleague. Maybe they say something you perceive as a slight while grabbing a coffee in the morning. Instead of fixating on it all day and letting it disturb your work, you just let it go. Not attaching to our thoughts doesn't mean we can't focus very hard on things - in fact, letting your negative thoughts go is what is going to allow you to focus hard on your work the rest of the day! (Also, there are many types of meditation, this is just one form of meditation... again, lots of nuance here that is hard to get across in this format.)
- betterburnout 4y ago
  When we start, I think the name "meditation" is misleading. It's what we have left when we feel overwhelmed. Sit and breathe. It's interesting to try to do something so simple, so complicated.
- CTDOCodebases 4y ago
  It's a practice that's best understood by doing with zero expectation.

ImaCake 4y ago

> After becoming a father and undertaking a major rewrite at work, I had fallen off my ‘good habits’ wagon and was having a very tough time returning to my earlier state This doesn’t sound like failure to me, it sounds like the normal consequences of your life becoming busier. Of course it is hard to resume those habits, especially if your life is still stressful and busy. Maybe we should consider our own limits and be more accepting of why we might fall into bad habits. This obsession with balance and productivity does a lot of damage. As a final point, everyone has a different tolerance for stress and productivity. But western morals assume all people are equal and any failing are thus a moral failure. This harms those of us who, through random environment + genetics have different strengths and weaknesses. Many ADHDers go through life thinking of themselves as shit people because they can never even get close to the moral standard of balance.

TheHumanist 4y ago
Every day is so frazzled and at the end of the day feels as though nothing has been accomplished. I hate having ADHD.
- sam1r 4y ago
  I can totally empathize and truly hope you are enveloped within a pro-marijuana community to shut your mind off at night.
  - TheHumanist 4y ago
    I mean... I have no issue getting herb haha But, it doesn't really have that kind of effect on me... just kind of amplifies my anxieties that are produced by the constant frantic state I am in with my ADHD :-/
- ImaCake 4y ago
  Yeah, I was recently diagnosed. Its awful, but I do like that I no longer feel I should also feel bad that I struggle.
deleted 4y ago

rcarr 4y ago

Seems like the author missed: https://jamesclear.com/how-to-break-a-bad-habit https://jamesclear.com/how-to-break-a-bad-habit

theusus 4y ago

Is it a law that should work for everyone?

KVFinn 4y ago

I tried so hard to make Atomic Habits work for me. It was helpful, but I found also it really helpful to realize places where it doesn't work for me and I can get a lot of benefit from leaning into a lack of consistency. Basically the experience this YouTuber explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2sS00egAzg&t=22s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2sS00egAzg&t=22s

jbverschoor 4y ago
Very similar for me
Tao3300 4y ago
I kept forgetting to read the damn book, and then I lost it.
- Falkon1313 4y ago
  Same with me, just couldn't get into the habit of reading a little bit of it each day. I never got done reading 'Getting Things Done' either.
dack 4y ago
I found that the missing piece for me was simply being kinder to myself when I slip up on some habit. Like, I tell myself "chill out - so you didn't go to the gym today. You're set back by one day. Just try it tomorrow." Maybe it's similar to your leaning into lack of consistency. Previously I was so hard on myself when I made mistakes or wasn't up to my own (very high) standards, that I would quit after a while because it was a horrible experience. Now, no matter how many mistakes I make, I don't beat myself up about it and I keep trying the next day. And I am seeing that not only am I getting more things done, but I am actually enjoying life more day-to-day, which is the ultimate goal imo.
- KVFinn 4y ago
  >I found that the missing piece for me was simply being kinder to myself when I slip up on some habit. Like, I tell myself "chill out - so you didn't go to the gym today. You're set back by one day. Just try it tomorrow." Maybe it's similar to your leaning into lack of consistency. I totally get what you are talking about too. Sometimes I remind myself: "If it's something that is worth doing, it's still worth doing badly (Or inconsistently)."

ahansen 4y ago

Great post. I feel like I've gone through a similar cycle, but I've found that journaling rather then meditation was what I was drawn to. Sitting down and writing about what I'm worried about and what my priorities are has proven to be a great balancing force in my life. Though I'm still not doing it too regularly, I notice quite a lot of mental clarity after a short session.

kras143 4y ago

So much of what you said resonated with me. I did try meditation, and it was very helpful. Many have the opinion that meditation is something mysterious and that it is hard to get what it means, but IMO, they should keep trying. Like any muscle, our brain needs training. Once you start seeing that you have control over your thoughts, I think you will "get it."

deleted 4y ago

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braindead_in 4y ago

Meditation has changed me profoundly as well. I started with 2 minutes and now I do at least 1 hour everyday. It actually all started with weed. From there to yoga, then meditation, then shrooms and finally spirituality and Nondualism. I not in control of anything anymore; that delusion has gone away. This journey of self discovery is turning out to be the greatest adventure of my life. I can't even recognise the person I was 4 years ago. I've left that person far behind.

uquercia 4y ago
Getting completely changed after 4 years of life under influence of substances does not seem a perfect example…
- 2-718-281-828 4y ago
  Real life never produces perfect examples. If consumption of psycho active substances in her/his life is unhealthy and dependent then I would also question any conclusions about that journey. But as far as the comment goes she/he doesn't provide any information on that. For many people drugs are entry point to deeper reflection and there is nothing wrong about that especially if one leaves the drugs behind at some point.

Ambolia 4y ago

This works sometimes, but sometimes meditation brings up a lot of underlying problems, both mental and physical. That is good if you have the time and energy to deal with them, but if you don't it can complicate your life. Specially when you live in a society where meditation is not an engrained part of it, so you have no social structure that tells you which meditation experts are good and which are scams. For me it brought up that I'm carrying a lot of tension and knots in the back and shoulders, which is a good thing to realise, but during meditation it would build up a lot of "pressure" or "tension" on my head, which according to some traditions is "bad". According to other traditions you just "power through" with more meditation. I have explored different things but reduced how much I meditate for now.

posharma 4y ago

The author says meditation is the solution and describes the effects it had on him. However, I didn't quite get the why (even if I ignore the how) - why did it work for him and will it work the same way for others? Besides, meditation itself is a habit and one that is the easiest to ignore as it doesn't bring immediate benefits (lacks instant gratification). This was great writing but for me it lacked the scientific rigor. It's great that it worked for the author. Kudos for that!

mindhash 4y ago
In my experience in order to build or break a habit you must be able to tie the action to its immediate results. It can be placebo but in your mind that association must settle in. Meditation for a lot of people creates a state of calm afterwords. Mainly if you breathe at a lower that 6 breaths per minute. The calmness likely leads to better decisions and helps that way. It looked like the author has been overwhelmed with stresses of life. Meditation helped to apply breaks and steer the wheel.
vidyesh 4y ago
I inferred that meditation helped them to understand surface thoughts vs deep thoughts as generally surface thoughts are loud, immediate and what create bad habits. By being able to discard those during meditation, they were able to work on deep thoughts and make enough time for those instead of getting occupied by the unnecessary(bad) habits. > Besides, meditation itself is a habit and one that is the easiest to ignore as it doesn't bring immediate benefits (lacks instant gratification) But thats the crux of building good habits, one needs to teach themselves to not run for instant gratification. Precisely, this article. Atomic Habits try to teach that you to by various habit building techniques in the book. It teaches you how to harness this instant gratification idea to build good habits slowly yet in a way that appeals that part of your brain. The author is trying to refute this exact thing, that these all work for a while until it all comes crashing down and it becomes really difficult to break away from bad habits.

sussexby 4y ago

In the ruthless monetisation of all things, it feels capitalism has done to our behaviour/thoughts/habits what it has done to any other resource - how can I maximise financial output from this thing at the cost of something else? Battery farming and animal welfare. Public transport and social mobility. Processed food and nutritional value. The human mind is just the next frontier where the battle to make everything you do something that is “valuable” where value = economic output. I’m stressed because I’ve been in that place for too long. I started the year reading James Clear’s book only to immediately follow up with 4000 Weeks as the antidote. Atomic habits are great if you want to push the boundaries of human achievement. The big realisation for me (and perhaps many of us) is “I’m not trying to do that”. All the good books on performance, habits, marginal gains reference all the contexts where pushing boundaries is the normal state - Formula 1 pit crews working together to minimise time, Southwest Airlines and their 20min turn arounds, the British Cycling team and the pursuit of TdF/Olympic success. My personal belief is we’re inviting in a dangerous logic to one of the few remaining bastions of our humanity. Float. Be free. Don’t force your mind to do something it cannot or does not want to do. Sure there’s a balance, but there is a threshold beyond which you’re deviating from your natural wants and wishes which equates to stress. Too much of that and you’re going to have a bad time.

camillomiller 4y ago

As a mildly self-disciplined person myself, I really don’t understand why we need to be so fixated in becoming this mostly unattainable, predictable, hard to maintain, yet boring and repetitive super-version of ourselves. The only thing that’s good for is to show off to others how undisciplined and bad they are. Moreover atomic habits and all these “philosophies” are based on a profound misconception or rather a disingenuous marketing tenet—that your life is not “better” yet only because you haven’t followed this or that new improved step-by-step recipe for happiness. Life is a messy dynamic system constantly veering towards instability. It’s better enjoyed in its complicatedness and unpredictability, not by living by a strictly structured code of conduit that will make you feel like shit when the aforementioned messiness will inevitably throw a wrench into your illusion of a well-oiled machine.

pprotas 4y ago
Personally, it’s not about becoming boring or unpredictable. I wanted to learn more about self-discipline because my life consisted of work, trash food, scroll phone and sleep. I am a lazy person by nature, and this is what my life becomes if I don’t discipline myself. It made me unhappy! The book actually gave me some practical tips on how to stop living a life like that and actually do the things I want to do. Stuff like working up the courage and routine to go to the gym in the morning, or spend my evenings on practicing my favorite hobbies instead of scrolling the phone. Finally, some discipline!
- beaker52 4y ago
  If I’ve learnt anything about myself, it’s that I’ll read the book, get motivated, enjoy a period of improvement, fall off the horse and be back here scrolling HN in bed in a few weeks. The best improvement I’ve found is to just simply stop caring. Then I’m more happy, then it’s easier to do the things that need to do. The things that don’t get done? Well, they just weren’t meant to be - oops. Maybe one day, but forcing it won’t help.
  - galleywest200 4y ago
    Atomic Habits is the only self-help book that actually stuck with me. Most of these books simply provide you with faux-epiphanies -- but James Clear in Atomic Habits not only provides concrete, actionable, steps he also supplies examples of his own use of these in his life.

leobg 4y ago

The author of that book has been writing about behavior for years. And yet when I once sent him a picture of B. F. Skinner, he didn’t know who that was. If you really think you need to optimize yourself, I’d recommend to skip the millennial bestseller lists and to closer to the source. A few recommendations: Self Help Without the Hype (R. Epstein) Tiny Habits (BJ Fogg) Self-Directed Behavior: Self-Modification for Personal Adjustment (Watson/Tharp) Don't Shoot the Dog (Pryor) Really, just the first one will likely be enough.

epups 4y ago
Skinner and behaviorism has not been relevant for the analysis of human behavior since 1959.
- leobg 4y ago
  That is the mainstream view. I know. And yet books like Atomic Habits rank way up there in the bestseller lists. Skinner is probably the most underestimated figure in 20th century science. His ideas are generating billions in value to this day. And yet the sentiment most people hold about him is the one you just shared. I’m on my phone and can’t go into details. But the whole aspect of gamification - in games, social media, TikTok, productivity apps, learning apps - is very much OG Skinner. And ChatGPT reinforcement learning? Behaviorism applied to virtual agents.
- leobg 4y ago
  BTW, relevant to OP’s question: > Skinner was the happiest, most productive, most creative person I've ever known, largely because he was so skilled at self-management. That’s from the first book I mentioned.
- kaushikc 4y ago
  He very likely not be "irrelevant" for the foreseeable future when people speak about behaviour.
Handprint4469 4y ago
Is there any way to get the first book in e-book format? I only see options to buy a used physical copy, and international shipments to my country are... untrustworthy, at best.

revskill 4y ago

Just ask ChatGPT, it said "mental stimulation" is a bad habit: Mental stimulation refers to engaging in activities that challenge the brain and promote cognitive function. It can involve a wide range of activities that are intellectually stimulating and require active mental engagement. Some examples of mental stimulation include: - Learning a new skill or language - Playing brain games, such as Sudoku or crossword puzzles - Reading books, newspapers, or magazines - Engaging in creative activities, such as painting or writing - Participating in educational programs or classes - Solving problems and puzzles - Engaging in debates or discussions - Playing musical instruments or listening to music - Learning a new sport or physical activity - Traveling to new places and experiencing different cultures

sokoloff 4y ago
What part of that suggests it was/is a bad habit?

k__ 4y ago

I learned the reason all these systems didn't work for me was that I had ADHD my whole life, but only got diagnosed in my late 30s.

ravagat 4y ago

I think it's a great book for average people. I read it and found it to be a basic breakdown greatly simplified. > That's when I realised it wasn't working quite as well as it had the first time. This is exactly what the book is great at. From the discussions I've been a part of, the book did a great job of really breaking down and creating a system for folks to achieve things. The author did note that the books' success is part of the rise of the industry its a part of and that's one thing I think a lot of people who discuss this book (for good or bad) overlook. Whatever the ROI has been for the book will always be individually contextual.

martindbp 4y ago

Changing habits have become an insurmountable task. In my 20s and early 30s I'd go on diets, start going to the gym, learn a new language, work on side projects. Since having a child I'm just struggling getting enough sleep and keeping the apartment clean, there's no energy left for reinventing myself or changing habits... It also becomes harder and harder to start something because from experience I know I'll eventually fall off the wagon. Hopefully it gets better once kids are more self sufficient...

en3r0 4y ago
It will, but it might take more will power and discipline to make those things happen than it used to.

jbjbjbjb 4y ago

That’s what James Clear would call a keystone habit

SergeAx 4y ago

I just can't shake off the feeling that all those "be productive" techniques are nothing else than means to force oneself to do something one don't want at all. Human psyche will take a serious tall on these activities, even if one have a positive reinforcement system well set around them.

2-718-281-828 4y ago
Life is often to a large part about doing sth you don't want at all but you simply have to do or face consequences which are harsher than those somethings. Or surprisingly not that bad at all and you come to realize your model of life was lacking. Either way - no technique designed for becoming more disciplined will help you distinguish between what is worth doing or not. I put all my eggs into the meditation basket. Meditation makes me less anxious, my mind clearer and more focused. All those qualities help me understand better what I want and need and then act upon it even if doing so is uncomfortable.

lumb63 4y ago

Most people I know consider me a “disciplined” person. I’m a fitness junkie who has very rarely missed a workout in the last 10 years. I maintain a not-as-strict-as-I’d-like-but-seemingly-better-than-most diet. I prioritize habits that help me or that I enjoy like sleep and reading. There are days I do not want to. There are days when I am tempted. There are days when I am depressed, busy, etc. Things get in the way. I am not perfect, and do not claim to be. That said, what helps me with adherence, and I know this will sound overly simplistic and un-helpful, is I just do the things. I have a friend who is also into fitness, and we agree that the most important workouts to do are the ones you don’t want to do. They build the discipline to do things you don’t want to in the moment, in order to satisfy your higher, long term goals. And we agree that the best way to do those workouts is to…do them. Go put on some gym clothes and get to the gym, and your mind and body will hardly argue with you that it doesn’t want to work out anymore. Some of the ability to do that, I expect, comes from the fact that I am an “all or nothing” person. I don’t do moderation well. I do well when I can do something with all my intensity. For instance, when dieting, I find it much easier to adhere to an incredibly strict and mundane diet than to try to enjoy my food. This ties into the idea of having and/or making the circumstances in which one can be disciplined. There is an excellent post here [0] that discusses what we need psychologically in order to actually do things. Stress, other priorities, distractions, etc., all impede our capabilities. For the author of this blog post, they found that meditation cleared their mind and that is what enabled them to lower their stress and return to better habits. They also discuss 16:8 IF, which I also do and find to be a huge boost to my focus (I joke that eating is my kryptonite). I also find having a rigorous schedule helps me; the activities I (in my mind) “have” to do, e.g. work out, work, etc., are not optional: they’re built in. I do not know why these techniques work, and there are many others which do as well. I hypothesize that these little and easy “mini habits” or tweaks to one’s way of living facilitate accomplishing goals. As an aside, discipline is an area that I want to work on in my life! There are a few books I’d like to read. One is Discipline Equals Freedom. I think the incredibly hard headed military guys (see also David Goggins) are the ones closer to the right track (or at least what makes sense to me) than the sciencey types who theorycraft infinite nudges to encourage people who “want” to be disciplined to be disciplined. I am no fan of Nike, but “just do it” really resonates with me. [0]: https://macrofactorapp.com/behavior-change/?ck_subscriber_id=1817008140 https://macrofactorapp.com/behavior-change/?ck_subscriber_id...

TipiKoivisto 4y ago

Atomic Habits gives the illusion that changing habits is easy and will change your life - that's why the book probably sells. But it's BS like most marketing and stories. Changing habits will change your life, but you need to learn the process and know yourself. You learn the best when you fail, but that's when people give up trying. The whole idea of habit formation is that it sucks to do something different and new... Until it's not new anymore. The author certainly did the most biggest mistake: Too much, too fast. => Focus only on Meditation. Bingo! One habit at the time, build the habit as slowly as possible. Everyone can do it. But they... Just don't. Disclosure: Founder of Habinator Health Coach app.

wsxaz 4y ago

I often meditate before bed, and I have to admit that it is very useful for improving sleep quality

boovii 4y ago
Does your meditation technique differ from the author's? If yes, would you please describe it.

icoder 4y ago

The term missing in this story, although described between the lines almost perfectly, as I see it, is willpower. There's a book about it with the same title.

thenerdhead 4y ago

> After becoming a father and undertaking a major rewrite at work, I had fallen off my ‘good habits’ wagon and was having a very tough time returning to my earlier state. Becoming a father makes you have to practice discipline everyday. You don't get time to just waste time like you used to. You have to schedule it. While Atomic Habits is a good book and best seller for a reason, the change we go through as individuals is much more telling of successful sticking habits. Atomic Habits just makes you a little more aware which can also be done through any awareness practice (meditation, journaling, reading, etc). > After that, I never bothered to track any of them. After a certain point, your habits become...habit. You don't need to track them. That's because you're constantly aware of them and you've outgrown habit formation books. I wrote an adjacent piece about what happens when your life operating system receives a breaking change like having kids: https://jondouglas.dev/lifes-operating-system/ https://jondouglas.dev/lifes-operating-system/

frodowtf 4y ago

Regarding the WhatsApp point: I recently archived all chats except the one with my gf. Now I don't get notifications but can opt-in to read stuff if I want.

freshbakedbread 4y ago

One completely free iOS app that I found to be helpful is Mindfulness Coach, developed by the US department of veteran affairs. It was made to help veterans and service members with PTSD. It offers a collection of timed, very minimal, very easy to follow guided mindfulness sessions.