5 ms·

At the end of the article, after the picture "The mizzen of the 'Grace Harwar'; view aft from the main crosstrees", is the calculation: The amount of cargo tha

by gvb 4y ago

At the end of the article, after the picture "The mizzen of the 'Grace Harwar'; view aft from the main crosstrees", is the calculation: The amount of cargo that was traded across the oceans in 2019 equals the freight capacity of 22.4 million EcoClippers. Assuming the EcoClipper500 can make 2-3 trips per year, we would need to build and operate at least 7.5 million ships, with a total crew of at least 90 million people.

detourdog 4y ago
Doesn't sound beyond human capability and I would rather work on a EcoClipper than Amazon.
- leesalminen 4y ago
  At 2-3 trips per year that means spending 4-6 months at sea per trip. That’s a lot of time away from family. I would definitely rather work for Amazon and see my family every night.
  - detourdog 4y ago
    Sounds like there are plenty of workers for everyone.
  - Infernal 4y ago
    Folks who do this sort of thing tend to only work half the year. So you make one of those trips, and spend the other half of the year at home w/ your family full time.
- nradov 4y ago
  Would you still rather work on a EcoClipper if they pay you less that $11 a day? That's about the starting wage for entry-level seamen on foreign registered merchant ships. Sailing ships would have to pay even less than that in order to be cost competitive. Outside of maybe a few twee luxury goods, shippers aren't willing to pay more for the privilege of having their goods moved by sail.
  - detourdog 4y ago
    I think the ramp up between now and when a EcoClipper job becomes available it's really hard to judge the tradeoffs you present. If one extrapolates that ramp-up and time and applies it to the future quality of a job at Amazon... maybe it will be a job at Amazon.
skyfaller 4y ago
Good news, 40% of all shipping is fossil fuels, so if we abandon fossil fuels, the shipping problem gets significantly smaller: https://qz.com/2113243/forty-percent-of-all-shipping-cargo-consists-of-fossil-fuels https://qz.com/2113243/forty-percent-of-all-shipping-cargo-c...
- nradov 4y ago
  Much of that isn't fuel but rather chemical feedstock. There is a plausible path to significantly reduce fossil fuel use for transportation and energy. But finding another economically viable way to manufacture fertilizers, asphalt, and plastics is a much harder problem.
  - skyfaller 4y ago
    I think we can/should greatly reduce use of plastics by eliminating single-use plastic wherever possible. This mostly requires political will / habit changes. Although creating circular systems for e.g. food containers has its challenges, it's not moon shot difficult, we have these systems on small scales and we just need more people to use them. I agree that fertilizer is a very difficult problem, it's possibly the hardest problem related to fossil fuels. Low-Tech Mag has covered this to some degree, and I'm in awe of the scale of the issue, as well as the dire effects of not figuring it out (people starving). https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2021/03/urban-fish-ponds-low-tech-sewage-treatment-for-towns-and-cities.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2021/03/urban-fish-ponds-l... To some degree, I figure we'll just have to accept fertilizer as the last legitimate use of fossil fuels until we completely rebuild our farms / food production and sewage systems to be circular.
    - hammock 4y ago
      >reduce use of plastics by eliminating single-use plastic wherever possible In favor of what? Paper or bamboo fiber? Europe has no trees, where will they get it from? How do you suppose it will be transported?
      - 4y ago
adolph 4y ago
EcoClipper500 appears to be 40m long. If 7.5mm are operated the total length is 300,000,000 meters, or 300,000 kilometers. In perspective, the distance from Long Beach to Hawaii is 4,100 km, and Hawaii to Shanghai is 8,000 km. So the number of EcoClipper500s needed would stretch across the Pacific 25 times.

by gvb 4y ago

detourdog 4y ago

Doesn't sound beyond human capability and I would rather work on a EcoClipper than Amazon.

leesalminen 4y ago
At 2-3 trips per year that means spending 4-6 months at sea per trip. That’s a lot of time away from family. I would definitely rather work for Amazon and see my family every night.
- detourdog 4y ago
  Sounds like there are plenty of workers for everyone.
- Infernal 4y ago
  Folks who do this sort of thing tend to only work half the year. So you make one of those trips, and spend the other half of the year at home w/ your family full time.
nradov 4y ago
Would you still rather work on a EcoClipper if they pay you less that $11 a day? That's about the starting wage for entry-level seamen on foreign registered merchant ships. Sailing ships would have to pay even less than that in order to be cost competitive. Outside of maybe a few twee luxury goods, shippers aren't willing to pay more for the privilege of having their goods moved by sail.
- detourdog 4y ago
  I think the ramp up between now and when a EcoClipper job becomes available it's really hard to judge the tradeoffs you present. If one extrapolates that ramp-up and time and applies it to the future quality of a job at Amazon... maybe it will be a job at Amazon.

skyfaller 4y ago

Good news, 40% of all shipping is fossil fuels, so if we abandon fossil fuels, the shipping problem gets significantly smaller: https://qz.com/2113243/forty-percent-of-all-shipping-cargo-consists-of-fossil-fuels https://qz.com/2113243/forty-percent-of-all-shipping-cargo-c...

nradov 4y ago
Much of that isn't fuel but rather chemical feedstock. There is a plausible path to significantly reduce fossil fuel use for transportation and energy. But finding another economically viable way to manufacture fertilizers, asphalt, and plastics is a much harder problem.
- skyfaller 4y ago
  I think we can/should greatly reduce use of plastics by eliminating single-use plastic wherever possible. This mostly requires political will / habit changes. Although creating circular systems for e.g. food containers has its challenges, it's not moon shot difficult, we have these systems on small scales and we just need more people to use them. I agree that fertilizer is a very difficult problem, it's possibly the hardest problem related to fossil fuels. Low-Tech Mag has covered this to some degree, and I'm in awe of the scale of the issue, as well as the dire effects of not figuring it out (people starving). https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2021/03/urban-fish-ponds-low-tech-sewage-treatment-for-towns-and-cities.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2021/03/urban-fish-ponds-l... To some degree, I figure we'll just have to accept fertilizer as the last legitimate use of fossil fuels until we completely rebuild our farms / food production and sewage systems to be circular.
  - hammock 4y ago
    >reduce use of plastics by eliminating single-use plastic wherever possible In favor of what? Paper or bamboo fiber? Europe has no trees, where will they get it from? How do you suppose it will be transported?
    - 4y ago

adolph 4y ago

EcoClipper500 appears to be 40m long. If 7.5mm are operated the total length is 300,000,000 meters, or 300,000 kilometers. In perspective, the distance from Long Beach to Hawaii is 4,100 km, and Hawaii to Shanghai is 8,000 km. So the number of EcoClipper500s needed would stretch across the Pacific 25 times.