8 ms·
> What possible reason would the Russians have to sabotage their own side of their won space craft? Some people believe the Nord pipeline blowup was self-sabot
by latchkey 4y ago
> What possible reason would the Russians have to sabotage their own side of their won space craft?
Some people believe the Nord pipeline blowup was self-sabotage.
Update: I did not say I believe this myself. I'm just using this as a counter argument to say that the reasons might not be obvious at first glance and people tend to believe all sorts of things.
- karpierz 4y ago... because it gets them out of contractual obligations to deliver gas.
- bigdict 4y agoBut… they want to sell gas.
- bandyaboot 4y agoRight up until they prefer to deliver retribution by withholding gas.
- bigdict 4y agoRight, but the weapon is not the cutting of the supply, it's the threat. The fear that comes with uncertainty. There is no uncertainty when the pipeline is damaged irreparably.
- bandyaboot 4y agoRussia had already been increasingly cutting gas supplies to Europe before the Nordstream pipeline was sabatoged. They weren’t just threatening.
- bigdict 4y agoIf that's true, why blow up your own infrastructure when you can just cut the supply?
- bandyaboot 4y agoFirst, there’s no “if”, it’s a fact that can be easily verified. Second, I don’t pretend to know for a fact it was Russia. One of several reasons that I think it’s most likely is that Russia is the country involved here where one man’s irrational decisions would turn into action with virtually no checks.
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoRussia can close the valves on their end, and germany cannot do anything, since the EU their contractual obligations and literally promising to steal russian assets. Destroying the pipelines doesn't benefit neither germany nor russia.
- bigdict 4y agoThe volume has certainly been going down for a while, I'm not sure who's responsible for that. Like I would actually need to research that part. Russia can stop the pump while Europe can suspend payments. Both actions have the same effect on volume sold.
- shagie 4y agoSeptember 29, 2022 - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60131520 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60131520 Russia has been reducing gas supplies through Nord Stream 1 for a number of months. In June, it cut deliveries through the pipeline by 75% - from 170m cubic metres of gas a day to roughly 40m cubic metres. In July, Russia shut it down for 10 days, citing the need for maintenance. When it reopened, the flow was halved to 20m cubic metres a day. In late August, it shut down Nord Stream 1 entirely, blaming problems with equipment. The pipeline has not been open since then.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bandyaboot 4y agoI don’t know if you guys are being deliberately obtuse with stuff or what, but the Nordstream pipeline can deliver gas to Germany—that’s it. If circumstances change such that Russia no longer wants to deliver gas to Germany, the pipeline has no value to them. It doesn’t matter that it’s theirs. It’s not like they can use it for something else.
- latchkey 4y agoI did not say I believe that.
- wheelerof4te 4y agoRussia could just stop the flow of gas without blowing the pipeline up. They had Zero reasons to blow it up and very good reasons to keep it alive if and when the Germans wanted that gas again. The only beneficiary of the pipeline going bust are the USA.
- bandyaboot 4y agoRussia had zero logical reasons to blow it up. I don’t have any trouble believing that Putin’s devotion to rational decision making is less than complete at this point—particularly when it comes to doling out retribution to the west. The idea that the US would risk making itself a pariah amongst its NATO allies, particularly right now does not seem believable to me.
- willcipriano 4y agoIt's easier to call your enemies insane than to admit you don't understand their motivation.
- bandyaboot 4y agoHumans routinely prioritize retribution over rationality.