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My Salary History
- jamietanna 4y agoThanks for sharing this - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33173450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33173450 may be worth a read too around what I've learned since it's been public
- popcalc 4y agoThat was... insanely quick. Do you have a regex set up for your blog on HN? Or track incoming referrers?
- jamietanna 4y agoI've got tracking on my blog, and as I spotted quite a few HN hits, I assumed that something had been posted, as a handful of hits to the same page so quickly doesn't look like a previously posted post getting hits again
- epolanski 4y agoI would never want my friends to know how much I make, only 3 of my closest family members know that. It's a terrible idea. Couldn't care less of strangers, but irl people are envious, toxic and potentially dangerous.
- dom96 4y agoIt's not just irl people. In fact, strangers can be even more potentially dangerous. That's what would stop me from sharing my salary openly. Actually thinking about it more I wouldn't be worried about friends/family knowing at all.
- serial_dev 4y agoWhy do you think strangers would be dangerous? I thought about sharing this info, too.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoEveryone knows doctors in the US earn a few hundred thousand per year, since I was a kid. They seem to be surviving just fine. I don’t think anyone’s pay is very secret anyway. Based on employer, house location, cost of house, job title, it is pretty deducible to the ranges that indicate quality of life and potential savings.
- gambiting 4y agoI literally don't see why. All my friends and family know what I make(and I know what they make) - what's the big deal?
- mock-possum 4y agosome people have shitty friends and family that's really the only reason why. I'll usually check in with people if they're comfortable with talking about money, but otherwise I've never had trouble with anyone knowing how much (or how little) I make. I kind of see it as a trap, I guess - if knowing how much I make prejudices you against me, than I'd rather you show yourself for who you are sooner, so I can keep you at an appropriate distance. I've got no time for people like that.
- epolanski 4y agoDid you know that 90%+ of house robberies and stealing happens by acquittances? It's people that know you that rob and steal, not randoms. I make much more than my friends. That stirs envy, jealousy, people asking for money and poses a danger to me and my family. I don't want someone to come rob me in the night because a long tongued friend told other. There's literally not one good reason to tell others you make good money. It brings NOTHING good.
- philosopher1234 4y agoenvy is a big deal. some people manage it better than others, but it exists in and affects all relationships. sometimes its best avoided.
- JohnFen 4y agoIt's also not always even envy. There's a whole range of possible reactions. It can be just as bad if people discover you earn less than them.
- pojzon 4y agoIf you earn really a lot, ppl who may want to hurt you or ypur family might pop up. Ransome, asking for money etc. Nobody care if you make 50k but if you make 500k suddenly things change.
- pwinnski 4y agoSimilarly, I think it's usually a good idea to share this information with coworkers, as ignorance only benefits the employer in negotiations. But friends? That's different. My coworkers are all in roughly the same socio-economic bracket, give or take, but I have friends and family who very much are not, and there's no need to ruffle feathers, no upside at all. If you're young and nerdy and making not too much more than the average American household, it's probably fine! Once you're quite a bit more than six years out of school and making multiple times the average family, it's a bit more dicey.
- Linton1177 4y ago[dead]
- kerpotgh 4y agoNot if you’re making more than others in your role.
- khazhoux 4y agoRight. Unless you and your co-worker are at the same level and making the exact same, or you're making different amounts but aligned with your difference in levels, or unless you and your co-worker are both 100%-envy-free people... exactly one of you is going to be pissed off!
- pwinnski 4y agoWhich is a problem for the company choosing to pay us different amounts, right? Keeping employees in the dark is what companies want, so they can underpay as often as possible.
- thunky 4y agoProbably true. But would you be ok taking a pay cut in order for you and your equivalent peers to make the exact same amount? Cuts both ways.
- secondcoming 4y agoYup, nobody discusses their salary. I made the mistake of complaining about giving 50% of a bonus to the taxman and now people think I'm rich. I'm far from it.
- Volundr 4y agoAren't you? What's the threshold for rich? Top 20%? 10%? 5%? You might be closer than you think. Rich does not necessary mean independently wealthy.
- JohnFen 4y agoVery few of the wealthy people I've known have considered themselves rich.
- notinfuriated 4y agoDownvotes on this comment are evidence of the toxic envious nature of people. Prove me wrong.
- deanCommie 4y ago> my friends ... irl people are envious, toxic and potentially dangerous. bro, i don't want to tell you how to live your life, but if you are describing people as envious, toxic, and potentially dangerous than either these are not your friends, or you have a horribly low opinion of people. We don't have evidence if the problem is you or them, but I would say a fundamental baseline expectation from a "friend" is that they should be HAPPY not envious of your successes.
- epolanski 4y agoI don't know, maybe it's an American thing, but here in Europe we boast much less about our success. It's considered rude. Anyway, boasting of financial success is something I find sad, unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Tomorrow some friend of a friend junkie may need money and may think I'm collecting rolexes or idk. Better people don't know shit.
- wruza 4y agoA friend of a friend of a friend may seek some easy money (“six handshake rule”). Friends talk about friends. Guarding your family from various criminal activities may be hard. This all may add up not in your favor eventually.
- notinfuriated 4y agoI still remember when a company I worked for had a spreadsheet where people were anonymously sharing their salary information along w/ title, demography, notes, etc. Most of the people who posted their info with some self-perception that their salary was "low" for the role added notes to the spreadsheet suggesting they think it's "low" because of racism or sexism. To you, that might be good, positive, and normal. IMO it was toxic and fueled by envy with no actual information to support their position (and, admittedly, no information to deny it either). They only wanted my salary information to help progress their position in life, which to me is not so different from Google or Facebook wanting such private information for their own monetary gain.
- khazhoux 4y ago> bro, i don't want to tell you how to live your life, but if you are describing people as envious, toxic, and potentially dangerous than either these are not your friends, or you have a horribly low opinion of people. I found this interview eye-opening of how serious (and dangerous) money can be, when the people around you don't have any: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKutkXy1Eeo&t=1178s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKutkXy1Eeo&t=1178s Even when it's not a situation of danger, though, money can still drive a wedge. The friends you made growing up, you were then equals (and neither of you had anything). Your financial success can become a mirror into their financial struggles, and not everyone does ok in that situation.
- bradleyjg 4y agoAre all these people in danger? https://www.seethroughny.net/payrolls/ https://www.seethroughny.net/payrolls/
- dannyphantom 4y agoI wish I never even told my family about anything. Before I finally made the decision to just not talk to my parents anymore my dad would constantly shame and belittle me about what my earnings were; he's at a partner level in finance and is under the impression that my lack of income - while still being in college - is representative of his 'failure to raise me correctly', as...unhinged as that sounds. I don't have any other family because my parents have basically had this attitude for the last 20 years and their siblings understandably do not like to be anywhere near them - as a byproduct I've never met my extended family.
- vernon99 4y agoNever too late, by the way. It could be a lot of fun to travel around and meet your relatives. Or not :) But only way to find out.
- kenjackson 4y agoI wouldn't describe people as envious, toxic, etc... but even well meaning people who know how much you make can create issues that you simply would prefer not to have. For example, if you make a lot people may expect you to pay for dinner more, or worry less about inconveniencing you financially. Not in a mean malicious way, but in a "Tommy's not gonna sweat this $20". Or the opposite, they may question why you have that new car, when your finances don't really justify it. They may be looking out for you, but really that decision should be yours and your spouse. I'm not sure what upside there is to letting anyone know.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bradlys 4y agolol - this seems like a great way to keep a class divide. “I can’t let the poors know I make so much. They might try to take my money!” Way to not work on class unity. I’ve told my friends, family, peers, and anyone else how much I made all the way from delivering newspapers for criminally low wages, to doing random IT work in my local town of 4,000 people as a high schooler, to working as a cashier at a department store making minimum wage, and all the way up to my 7 figure TCs. You know why? I want people to know what’s possible and what’s available out there. I want them to advocate for more money. When I tell them what I make - they think, “fuck, I should ask for more. You’re right!” They become more incentivized to advocate for unity among the working class as well because they realize without good bargaining - they will lose out. Terrible idea for everyone. If people get jealous - tell them how you made it happen. If it was luck - fucking acknowledge it. If it was back breaking work - acknowledge it too. Acknowledge all the parts good and bad that got you to where you are. That’s what I do and everyone has no substantial resentment at the end. Btw - I work as a typical engineer in SV. Nothing special.
- epolanski 4y agoPeople treat you differently, generally worse when they know you make many times what they do. It's also dangerous and unnecessary and comes as posturing. I live a modest life and no one has to know how much I make. It's a terrible idea to share it, if you want that's your business.
- JohnFen 4y agoYeah, I won't share mine with anyone unless there's a need for them to know. It's literally nobody's business. But "need" isn't a terribly high bar. For instance, I recently shared that information with my best friend, in an attempt to get him to come work where I work.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- flappyeagle 4y agoAre these normal for UK? Even for startups in SF bay area, senior engineers are making 50-100+% above that number. I've been at startups that pay these rates to EU remote workers.
- jalev 4y agoUnfortunately no; it's on the high side for the sector. In my circle only I only see 6 figures for people working in the finance sector.
- IshKebab 4y agoThe deliveroo job is on the high side but £69k for a senior software engineer in London is definitely not! It's the government though so that's not exactly surprising. I wonder if he is not mentioning an amazing pension or something.
- nebben64 4y agoSalaries will be slightly higher in London. A mid-level engineer at a non-tech company will earn 50-55k.
- nly 4y agoDepends where he is. £90K for a remote gig is a pretty damn good dev salary by national standards. If you live somewhere cheap (outside of London and the London commuter belt, the South East, and perhaps away from a few other major city centers), you can live well on that salary. In London? You probably won't be buying a property anytime soon, unless you have a partner with a similar salary. Single and renting? You're leading a pretty comfy bachelor life For perspective though, £90K is almost 3x the national median full-time wage . Total taxation at this level is 32%.
- nonethewiser 4y agoDouble fucked then. Lower salaries and higher taxes.
- andrewstuart 4y agoDoes your employer know? HR would probably have a fit if they found out it was publicly posted.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jefftk 4y agoWhere are you based that HR can object to you sharing basic details of your working conditions like how much you're paid?
- nonethewiser 4y agoWhere are you that HR is incapable of disliking that people share their salary?
- lozenge 4y agoIf HR's role is to protect the company, then they would be sensible to know that people have a right to share their salary information.
- jefftk 4y agoI'm in the US, where they're welcome to dislike it but their "throwing a fit" would be illegal and risky for the company.
- flandish 4y agoHR is not capable of “liking” or “disliking” - those are human emotions. They are only capable of following policy and law - which, in my country (US) means it’s perfectly fine to discuss salary. Note: “HR” (Human Resources) describes the resource pool in relation to the corporation, not a collection of “resources” available to a human. As a department, HR only ever exists to serve the corporation. Even if you walk into the dept to fix a pay stub (a legal concern) or get a mental health referral (it’s expensive to hire new emps after burning them out…)
- 4y ago
- cleandreams 4y agoI have made a lot more than this probably 4x TOC of this and I would never share it with friends because to anyone not in tech my salary is shocking and troublesome. I have friends who are in fields that rarely top 100K and in the Bay Area it can be a challenge to live on that. It makes them sad! I didn't go into tech to make this much money but of course I am happy I've been able to take care of my family, own a house, educate my kid without debt, etc. The young ones around here all gravitate to tech in some capacity. It's hard to have a decent life with making a good income.
- nonethewiser 4y agoThe transparency is nice. I feel for people in the UK. I made 20% more than OPs latest position in a LCOL area in the US. Before I finished my degree.
- mkoryak 4y agoWhat is lcol?
- phphphphp 4y agoLow Cost Of Living
- lylejohnson 4y agoLow cost of living
- phphphphp 4y agoThe quality of life in the UK for someone on £100k is very high. There’s no sympathy needed for people on £100k in the UK!
- nonethewiser 4y agoI'm sure it is. But how does having the option to retire in your 30s sound?
- BizarreByte 4y agoIt’s sounds like an unrealistic pipe dream from someone in their 20s. Even on American salaries all it takes is one good accident (or even burnout) to derail the best laid FIRE plans. Almost no one is retiring in their 30s regardless of circumstances.
- xyzelement 4y agoI appreciate the person's intention behind sharing this data but as someone with some meaningful context in compensation (heavily involved in recruiting, managing, and several personal job searches in recent years) I just don't find this remotely meaningful. Companies, teams, locations, and people are all fairly non-fungible and it's very hard to compare across. Even the idea of "level" that companies use is super coarse. An L5 is not comparable to another L5 even at the same firm. What is the value of me knowing that someone makes more or less than me in "the same" role. Is it really the same role or does he work on high impact, all-eyes-on-you stuff while I am doing sleepy back-office work? Or maybe I barely squeaked by the interview while he was considered for the next level already. Maybe he's bringing some domain specific skills that I just don't have. Etc. What I am saying is there's almost never enough context that helps you understand why the person makes what they make and to compare that to your situation. If all this does is make you think you should be earning more but you keep getting rejected without understanding why, you are just more frustrated than where you started.
- xeromal 4y agoI'm in 100% agreeance with you. Salaries are very individual specific and depend on a ton of factors. I will say that openness when it comes to salaries is beneficial in an order-of-magnitude kind of way. If you're making half of what someone is making in the same role at a similar company, you're either not as good as you think you are or you're horrible at negotiating.
- LesZedCB 4y agoBut they don't need to be. Thats why why there's a push for clear salary ranges and deterministic pay scale It's not your problem when you're being paid well, until you aren't.
- xyzelement 4y agoI strongly believe that if you "aren't being paid well" just some raw data isn't going to make the difference for you. What you make is a function of how much I want you and how much it takes to get you to move over there. If you're making $100, it doesn't matter that you decide you're worth $150 because you saw that number somewhere - what matters is whether I can easily get another "you" for $100 or not. If you were $150 material, you'd already know it from all the recruiters banging on your door offering you $150 jobs.
- jvidalv 4y agoIm the only one who never had a joining bonus?
- as1992 4y agoI've only joined 2 companies, however I interviewed and turned down maybe 6 other job offers. The company I work for now is the only one that offered a signing bonus so I don't think signing bonuses are that common in Europe?
- JohnFen 4y agoYou're far from the only one. Most people don't get them.
- bhaney 4y agoThis data is so granular for covering nearly a decade. I can probably dig up all of my former offer letters with initial salaries and approximate (read: entirely inaccurate) equity values, but I doubt I can dig up records on every cash or stock bonus I've received. If someone wanted to construct a page like this for themselves, where would they get the data to do it? Maybe something related to tax records? Or do you just need to have had the foresight to record/save all of this from the get-go?
- SimonPStevens 4y agoThe salary data is interesting. But I found the clear example of title inflation quite shocking. Promoted to "Senior" after only 1 years and 4 months. (Not counting their placement year here) and the "principal" in just under 4 years. I have close to 20 years of experience this year so it kind of makes me chuckle when people with only a couple of years experience get refered to as senior. Admittedly, my title is equally laughably inflated, it seems to be a growing trend. (This isn't intended to be personally disparaging to jvt. My comment is more on the state of the industries naming conventions)
- JohnFen 4y agoHonest question -- does anyone really pay attention to titles anyway? We've known they were largely BS for decades.
- sys_64738 4y agohttps://news.sky.com/story/deliveroo-to-cut-350-jobs-9-of-its-workforce-12806890 https://news.sky.com/story/deliveroo-to-cut-350-jobs-9-of-it...
- andrewstuart 4y agoI wish I could move to somewhere that pays the big money but I'm stuck here in Australia.
- JohnFen 4y agoBut remember, what counts as "big money" is very situationally dependent. There are parts of the US where you'd be living poor on an income that you could live rich on in other parts. What matters isn't the absolute amount. What matters is what you can buy with it.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dave333 4y agoOut of interest I plotted my salary history from when I immigrated to the US from the UK in 1980 to 2018 when I retired. Data is from the SSA website (click the link for the chart). While I knew the numbers all along seeing it in graph form I am shocked how much of a roller coaster ride it was. The chart has several interesting features. Initially there is slow steady salary growth as a contract employee at a large tech in the midwest. In 1990 I moved to Silicon Valley and salary growth sped up, partly as I switched jobs more and partly this was the gogo 1990s with a banner spike year in 1998 when I got a large performance bonus that essentially doubled my salary. This was also the time in the valley when your house made more than you did so times were good, money was plentiful and I could afford to lose a little attempting to day trade the dot com stocks. Then the dot com bust hit in 2000-2001 and the startup I worked for failed to IPO and I started a lean patch where I was self-employed trying to run my own business and create my own startup. I tried to do it purely with credit cards and did not try for any venture capital. It didn't work out although I do have some small passive income to show for some websites I created. I went back to full time employment in 2007 and stayed with that albeit plateaued in my career until retirement in 2018 when I was laid off. The final salary spike is a termination bonus. https://ibb.co/TDXBgS8 https://ibb.co/TDXBgS8
- Linton1177 4y ago[dead]