9 ms·

What It’s Really Like to Work at Google

245 points by kellyhclay 15y ago

nagrom 15y ago
This sounds very much like how it is to work at DESY and CERN. However, at CERN and even more so at DESY, the general environs are not that pleasant. CERN can be pretty sweet, although many of the buildings don't have aircon and the furniture and computers can be outdated. DESY is worse and just tore up its soccer pitch a couple of years ago to build on top of it. The canteens at CERN are pretty good, but the canteen at DESY is dire. However, there seems to be the same easy-going, yet intensely competitive dominated-by-young-clever-people vibe at Google as I've seen at these labs. I wonder if they took any inspiration from particle physics labs when they designed their offices?
- fasouto 15y ago
  """but the canteen at DESY is dire""" mmmm... restaurant 3? :) I've been working at CERN and I think is not comparable. Your salary doesn't depend on the hours you spend on the project, AFAIK there are no bonuses. Also some buildings (like 33) close at 7 during weekdays and if you want a coffee, a snack or to take a shower you need to ask for special permision to enter. You're not encouraged to do extra hours(although I did...a lot)
  - nagrom 15y ago
    I actually worked on the St Genis side and ate at resto 3 a lot...I agree it's bad, but it's still much, much better than the DESY canteen. There are no words...when I lived in Hamburg, I used to eat PausenBrot from the vending machines rather than visit the canteen. And CERN's resto 2 in the summer is lovely, I think! I always put on weight at CERN. CERN staff members may not be encouraged to do extra hours, but all students and post-docs (and a lot of faculty!) that I know must work 60+ hours a week. (Do you know anyone in physics that works 35-40 hours a week?) Partly because they like the job and partly because the competition is so fierce. At DESY, we worked 10am-10pm most days and people were on their computers at home. You're right that your compensation does not depend upon hours worked, but a lot of the time your reputation and the number of publications do - without reputation and publications, you don't get your next grant.
- zura 15y ago
  Bad thing regarding CERN is that staff positions are limited to member state countries only.
cletus 15y ago
Disclaimer: I'm no expert only having worked here for little more than a year (true veterans can speak to Google culture far better than I) but I'll add my perspective. None of this rings false although there's not really that much substance to the piece and certainly nothing new. I will add two things: 1. You get as much out of it as you put in; and 2. As an employee you are empowered. (2) can be a little hard to explain. Basically the rules (apart from a few like keeping confidences and not doing anything criminal) are really guidelines. A lot of effort is made to accommodate outliers. Let's face it, there are some engineers who are quite brilliant but have a lot of, well, idiosyncrasies. Also if you need to work early, late or need new hardware or whatever you use your discretion because if you ask for something you'll probably get it but the culture of being "Googley" includes not getting or doing things just because you can. Use your judgement. Oh in New York it's a little different. Commutes can be a lot smaller (I'm a 5 minute walk from work) so there's not as much of an issue with crazy hours because the travel time, being a fixed cost, may jot encourage you to make the most of it, as it were.
- jayzee 15y ago
  You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train, Howard Zinn
- noduerme 15y ago
  Sounds like a great place to work. I got out of web dev for companies in San Francisco around the time I saw a client bill and realized they were charging 5-6x my hourly for my work to clients. Still, what you do for a company like Google would be a lot harder to quantify (or explain to a client), and it's probably a lot more personally gratifying. I'm probably an asshole to say this, but I'm reasonably sure I could've gotten a job with Google in 2001-2; and at that point I didn't want to work in that kind of office. I went back to LA and drove a taxi for a year and a half, and wrote a novel, to clear my head. The thing that makes me flinch about it is the competitive nature of the job, even if your job shouldn't have to be competitive. The open offices, the personal time, all of these things make you run faster rather than being allowed to slow down and think. And if you get to thinking about who you're running for...who knows? As insulated as you are from the clients -- which is great -- you also almost never get to see the direct result of your own work. So what emerges is this endless Senior Year of High School, where everyone's waiting to be recommended or get their acceptance letters, while partially slacking off while looking like they're on their best behavior. I'm not sure that's a way I'd be willing to spend my life. I make about 1/5th what you do, probably, for about the same level of work and commitment to my own startup. But I don't envy your job.
Aloisius 15y ago
When I was younger, I would have considered the Google environment to be perfect. A utopia for software engineers - especially if you have to be in the suburbs like Mountain View. The size would never have worked for me, but seeing something similar implemented at a startup level would have been my dream. Now on my fourth startup, I feel it's unhealthy for the employees and the company. Having everyone's life revolve around a corporate culture is stifling. Employees lose perspective and balance. They lose touch with people who are not like them. Monoculture develops; groupthink flourishes. It is a dangerous thing to be completely dependent on a company for basic necessities or for your friends. It makes it hard to leave everything you knew behind. It makes people defensive when any criticism of the company is raised since it attacks their way of life. While a comfortable work environment is important, I reject the idea that employees should be encouraged, even passively, to stay at work all the time. I think employees should have a life outside of work involving people who aren't at the company and don't work in tech.
- true_religion 15y ago
  Maybe its just the connotation of the words, but do you really believe that Google culture is both dangerous and unhealthy?
  - Aloisius 15y ago
    I do indeed. Not unhealthy in the sense of danger to people's bodies, but certainly I think it can easily stunt personal development and in the long run, harm the company by creating an insular monoculture. A company can only succeed long-term if it understands its customers. Google, if it continues down this path, will only understand Google.
- paulhauggis 15y ago
  Even if I could make it past the interview stage, I would never want to work at Google. No matter how nice the work environment is it still feels like they are prettying up a cage. They make it feel like you can come and go and blur the line between life and work..but you are still just an employee. You can't build a company on the side while working at Google (without their blessing or cut) and you are still told what to do.
nostrademons 15y ago
I can tell that this was written by an outsider, because it focuses on the perks and rehashes several cliches that have made their way into the popular media but aren't all that accurate. Most Googlers will tell you that the best thing about working there is having the ability to work on really hard problems, with really smart coworkers, and lots of resources at your disposal. I remember asking my interviewer whether I could use things like Google's index if I had a cool 20% idea, and he was like "Sure. That's encouraged. Oftentimes I'll just grab 4000 or so machines and run a MapReduce to test out some hypothesis." My phone screener, when I asked him what it was like to work there, said "It's a place where really smart people go to be average," which has turned out to be both true and honestly one of the best things that I've gained from working there. A lot of the observations in the article fall out of this, but in ways that are less sound-bitey. Google doesn't enforce set working hours - you can get in as late as you want (the latest I've been in is around 4:15 PM, but that was because I had a DMV appointment, the latest from just not waking up was about 2:00), stay as late as you want (my latest was about 1:00 AM, though I worked from home until 6:00 AM last Thursday), duck out during the day if you're meeting a friend or have a date or need to pick a sick kid up from school, or work from home as necessary. You also don't have a set workload: you do as much work as you think is appropriate and then go home. The thing is - you are surrounded by incredibly intelligent & fiercely hard-working people. Many of them were used to being top-dog at whatever institution they came from before - hell, many were top dog (we have a lot of ex-startup-founders; there's a good chance that you're working with someone that's founded a company or originated a successful open-source project). And that can be a big adjustment, and the types of folks that Google typically hire usually react to not being on top by working harder. It's up to you to set limits on the amount of time you're willing to spend working, and most new hires at Google are used to being limited by "the amount of work my boss/professor/thesis advisor throws at me", not by the number of hours in the day.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  I don't work at Google, but I must say that being surrounded by incredibly intelligent & fiercely hard-working people is awesome- among other things, I always have something to aspire to, and somewhere to grow.
- 15y ago
slewis 15y ago
This is article is very light on evidence, citing one engineer the author spoke with. Having worked there I'd say the article is unfairly one-sided. There are plenty of Googlers who maintain a normal work-life balance.
emmapersky 15y ago
> The software engineer I spoke with... One is not a valid sample. Other than a single persons perspective, everything else is speculation. Disclaimer: I work for Google.
snewman 15y ago
FWIW, this doesn't especially match my experience at Google. (I was an engineer there for four years, ending about a year and a half ago. I doubt things have changed drastically since then.) Most of the descriptions about the environment and perks are accurate, though the article may somewhat exaggerate the extent to which people participate. However, I never felt pressure to devote my life to the company, and certainly there was no direct connection between hours worked and compensation. Long term, the biggest personal variables in Google compensation are promotions and stock grants. The biggest determinant of those, in turn (luck and politics aside) is a perception that you're doing important/great work. Burning the midnight oil is not necessarily going to help with that, and it's certainly not the only way to get there. Maybe the culture is different in other parts of the company. But I don't think it could be that different... there's a deliberate process for bringing people together from different parts of the organization to make decisions on promotions.
neild 15y ago
Speaking as a fairly recent Google hire: No, this is not what it's really like to work at Google. I considered writing more, but really, what else is there to say? Working at Google is not defined by the presence of cafeterias, alcoholism is not a way of life, and overwork is no more prevalent than any other Silicon Valley company I've worked at.
- raldi 15y ago
  Seconded.
  - zellyn 15y ago
    Thirded.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
      - moocow01 15y ago
        Googlers: there is an up vote button next to posts you can click to express agreement
        mvgoogler 15y ago
        Wow - all these years on HN and I never noticed that! </sarcasm> Yeah - I also clicked on the arrow. The problem is that nobody except the poster will see that. I wanted a more public statement of support. I could have added a comment that essentially duplicates what others have said - but I was feeling a bit flippant so I decided to have a little fun and post what I did. Sorry if I offended you.
        iusable 15y ago
        Happy that you mentioned this. I recently got downvoted 3 times cause I wanted to express public support verbally as well.
shazow 15y ago
It doesn't seem to me that the father of the 18-month old son is trading the chance to spend time with his offspring for cold hard work, but rather trading it for salsa dancing classes, a couple of pints at the bar with his friends, and whatever else fancies him out of the thousands of distractions on campus. I've heard all too many stories of people "working" insane hours at Google only to find out that they're merely working normal hours and spending the rest of their time living at Google. And it's great to have the option to do that. (Disclaimer: I've been working/living at Google for 2.5 months now.)
- ChuckMcM 15y ago
  During my time there I remember on guy who was at the office a lot, at dinner time his family would come to Google and eat dinner with him at Charlie's. Sometimes on weekends they would eat lunch with him too. Just before I left, Google started trying to enforce the 1 guest a month 'rule' where you had to sign in with both who you were visiting, and whether or not you were going to eat a meal. If you were, your guest badge would say 'guest (meal)'. I guess the idea was that one could algorithmically filter out folks who were abusing the option. The security guys would hassle the folks who didn't have '(meal)' on their guest badges. I saw a lot of people who were visiting "Larry Page, guest (meal)" and I thought that was pretty funny. I also noticed that this guy who used to spend time with his family at meal times now didn't. I felt badly for him. I could not decide if he had been abusing Google before by abusing his 'guest' privilege or if Google was abusing him now by not allowing him this option for some family time. A little of both I guess.
  - nostrademons 15y ago
    He does have the option of going home for dinner, just like at any other company. Most of my teammates with families do that.
    - jrockway 15y ago
      I haven't noticed any limit on guests at Google NYC, either. I was never under the impression that Google didn't want you to have guests. (I did read something suggesting that you should feel bad for eating more than $3 worth of microkitchen stuff per day. I don't think I hit the $3 threshold, but if I did, I wouldn't feel bad.)
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
joezydeco 15y ago
Wow, was the Jonestown reference really necessary? That was a low-class move to pull at the end.
notJim 15y ago
It's strange how this article praises what appears to be a lifestyle that's utterly devoted to and centered a corporation as a good thing. The guy spends his day doing Google things (some work, some merely provided by Google), goes home and sees his family for a couple hours, does a few more Google things, then goes to bed. Surely our lives should involve more than that.
- hn_reader 15y ago
  Perhaps the guy feels his work is important and derives personal satisfaction from it. That might make him happier in the long run and a better husband and father.
  - wavephorm 15y ago
    Or maybe this guy has become convinced that devoting his most productive years to help a corporation earn more profit is more rewarding than building a business where he owns 100% of his work.
psn 15y ago
I work there. Its been four and a lot years. I don't work in mountain view, though. working hours: I average 40h a week. Which is what all the studies say is optimal. The key perk here is picking your hours. If I'm feeling hungover, I work less. If I'm on a roll, I work more. If I have to wait at home for half a day to let in my landlord or something, thats fine. As long as work get done, no one cares. no one clock-watches. I do think there is a correlation between working hard and getting promoted, but its not that strong a correlation - my last promotion came at the end of working 40h weeks... I can't imagine people feeling like they have to leave because they aren't putting in stupid hours. boozing: there is a certain amount of company paid for drink. there is a certain amount of people bringing in booze. However, the line has been drawn about having a drink and then working. And really, on the scale of drinking, google is kinda lame. At tgif I think the most I've managed is a couple of beers. Another twist on the "smart people" thing: its not about everyone being smart, its about no one being stupid. I don't have to spend tons of my time explaining stuff to people. I don't have any co-workers where it would be faster to do their work for them. grades etc: I do run into people who name drop uni or test results or whatever, but most of the time, no one cares. I work with people who studied a subject completely different to computers at uni. I work with people who never bothered with uni. I do think there a bits of the company where going to mit over random uni still matters, but I don't work with those bits. My big dislike is that its a big company - there is lots of existing code and systems, some of which is showing its age, its hard to change company policy on the big issues, you do feel like one in X cogs, and there is a lot of internal bikeshedding.
jjm 15y ago
Google still and probably will always appeal to me as a team I'd join to solve hard problems. Even if they invent some of those problems themselves. I'm all for seeing your family but I think you can strike a balance. Google can put in a single room several great thinkers and engineers where 100 years from now people will look back and marvel.
rdl 15y ago
The experience of people I know at Google seems to vary incredibly based on direct supervisor (like any company) and the specific project you're doing. There are people I know who have gotten stuck on high-revenue but to-them uninteresting teams, couldn't easily shift to other parts of google, so they left. If you could get the right team (and had a cool direct supervisor, or had enough status to force this), it seems like a pretty awesome place to work. If you want to have a huge impact, working for a company like Google or Facebook, in the right capacity, pretty much guarantees it. Not having to worry if checks will clear, if kitchens will be stocked, etc. is a nice benefit on top of that. (If I could get the job of "make Android the most secure mobile OS, using some of the stuff from ChromeOS, and utterly crush all other mobile platforms in the Enterprise, I'd be really tempted; or the same thing for an EC2-killer from Google, also built around security.)
codeonfire 15y ago
One very positive thing about Google is that it is like the Jupiter of the software solar system, sweeping up many of the most self absorbed, "look at me" people in the industry. That's not meant to be derogatory or a sweeping statement (some people relish in their self absorption), but it's nice that many of these people are in one spot.
WalterBright 15y ago
The article suggests (ok, it does more than suggest) that one receives promotions at Google based on how hard one works or how many hours one puts in. Is that really the case? Shouldn't it be based on how effectively you work, i.e. your contribution to the company?
- jrockway 15y ago
  Of course. Is there any real job where you get promoted regardless of the quality of your work? (I guess postal clerks get promoted every 10 years or whatever. But you know what I mean.) Google is like every company I've ever worked for, except that instead of the promise of promotions, people actually do get promoted.
greggman 15y ago
Another googler here. I don't see people over working. My boss, who I totally respect as a programmer, leaves at 5pm every day. So did my previous boss. Both have families. Both work hard the entire time they are at Google. Both go home at a reasonable hour. I'd say the same of pretty much all my teammates. The place is nearly empty by 7pm but none of them were slacking during the day. I also agree with another googler's post here. Google, more than any other company I've worked with, tries to make sure nothing gets in your way. Need another monitor, hard drive, more ram, higher desk, cable, mouse, keyboard. They just give it to you asap. Need another machine, ask your boss. I've never been denied, machine shows up asap. Compare this to my previous job where our build server was out of space and it took 6 EFFING MONTHS FOR THEM TO A APPROVE A $100 hard drive! WTF!!! The perks are nice and also help you get more done in less time so you can go have your life. Not having to drive to a gym = 10-20 minutes of your life back. Being able to see a doctor on campus if you want means 20-40 minutes of your life back. Eating lunch on campus also probably means, on average, 30 mins a day of your life back although you are welcome to take a long lunch. I'd say at least twice a week some of my coworkers and I walk to a different building for lunch for the walk. Other perks include a gazillion talks. (http://www.youtube.com/user/GoogleTechTalks/videos http://www.youtube.com/user/GoogleTechTalks/videos). That's obviously not the entire list but I've personally not worked at a company before where I could go attend anything other than team meetings. I've worked far more hours at every previous job. Usually because of bad management. I'm not trying to say Google is perfect but most of the people trying to find issues seem to be grasping at straws and making stuff up.
lrobb 15y ago
It's one thing to say there's no set hours, it's another thing entirely to be in a place where you're surrounded by workaholics and your performance is measured on what you produce -- think about it: if you don't burn yourself at both ends, you'll be on the low end of productivity.
tytso 15y ago
I've been at Google two years, in the Cambridge office. I work pretty long hours, but part of that is because work is my hobby. I'd be working on the ext4 file system whether Google paid me or not. It's something that I'm passionate about it. Heck, even if I won a lottery and had a $20 million dollar windfall, I'd probably still be working there, because it's incredibly fun working with lots of smart people, and I'm at a place where I can definitely and directly see how my work is making a difference. So people who talk about it as being a velvet cage have gotten it all wrong. It's a cage, if you want to call it a cage, that I've chosen of my own free will; it's how I've wanted to spend my time even before I joined Google. Google has simply removed obstacles from allowing me to work on my passion as much as I like; in general, I think it's fair to say that Google wants to find people who are smart and passionate at what they do; those for whom their work is a joy, and not just something they do so they can put bread on the table. As far as promotions are concerned, the criteria at least for software engineers is pretty simple: it's a matter of demonstrating that you are already working at your new level, in terms of technical expertise, scope of your work, and impact to the company. As far as I'm concerned, that's the way it should be at any company where good engineers would want to hang their hat.
unfocused 15y ago
The sentiment I have is that of the 30 year old. When I was 19 and working as a hardware and software designer at a start up, my boss found out that I had come in on a Saturday and worked all day. I thought it was cool and awesome to design hardware, and then write the firmware for it. He was #5 out of 120 employees with 20+ years of experience. He took me to the side and said, one day, you will have a family. Working on the weekend and long hours should not be something you strive for. He worked 9 to 5, and so did the rest of the team. I'm 33 now and have a 2 month old. I work 9 to 5 Mon to Friday. No more, no less. His was the best advice ever given by a manager of mine. Only took me 14 years to "get it" :)

245 points by kellyhclay 15y ago

This sounds very much like how it is to work at DESY and CERN. However, at CERN and even more so at DESY, the general environs are not that pleasant. CERN can be pretty sweet, although many of the buildings don't have aircon and the furniture and computers can be outdated. DESY is worse and just tore up its soccer pitch a couple of years ago to build on top of it. The canteens at CERN are pretty good, but the canteen at DESY is dire. However, there seems to be the same easy-going, yet intensely competitive dominated-by-young-clever-people vibe at Google as I've seen at these labs. I wonder if they took any inspiration from particle physics labs when they designed their offices?

fasouto 15y ago
"""but the canteen at DESY is dire""" mmmm... restaurant 3? :) I've been working at CERN and I think is not comparable. Your salary doesn't depend on the hours you spend on the project, AFAIK there are no bonuses. Also some buildings (like 33) close at 7 during weekdays and if you want a coffee, a snack or to take a shower you need to ask for special permision to enter. You're not encouraged to do extra hours(although I did...a lot)
- nagrom 15y ago
  I actually worked on the St Genis side and ate at resto 3 a lot...I agree it's bad, but it's still much, much better than the DESY canteen. There are no words...when I lived in Hamburg, I used to eat PausenBrot from the vending machines rather than visit the canteen. And CERN's resto 2 in the summer is lovely, I think! I always put on weight at CERN. CERN staff members may not be encouraged to do extra hours, but all students and post-docs (and a lot of faculty!) that I know must work 60+ hours a week. (Do you know anyone in physics that works 35-40 hours a week?) Partly because they like the job and partly because the competition is so fierce. At DESY, we worked 10am-10pm most days and people were on their computers at home. You're right that your compensation does not depend upon hours worked, but a lot of the time your reputation and the number of publications do - without reputation and publications, you don't get your next grant.
zura 15y ago
Bad thing regarding CERN is that staff positions are limited to member state countries only.

cletus 15y ago

Disclaimer: I'm no expert only having worked here for little more than a year (true veterans can speak to Google culture far better than I) but I'll add my perspective. None of this rings false although there's not really that much substance to the piece and certainly nothing new. I will add two things: 1. You get as much out of it as you put in; and 2. As an employee you are empowered. (2) can be a little hard to explain. Basically the rules (apart from a few like keeping confidences and not doing anything criminal) are really guidelines. A lot of effort is made to accommodate outliers. Let's face it, there are some engineers who are quite brilliant but have a lot of, well, idiosyncrasies. Also if you need to work early, late or need new hardware or whatever you use your discretion because if you ask for something you'll probably get it but the culture of being "Googley" includes not getting or doing things just because you can. Use your judgement. Oh in New York it's a little different. Commutes can be a lot smaller (I'm a 5 minute walk from work) so there's not as much of an issue with crazy hours because the travel time, being a fixed cost, may jot encourage you to make the most of it, as it were.

jayzee 15y ago
You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train, Howard Zinn
noduerme 15y ago
Sounds like a great place to work. I got out of web dev for companies in San Francisco around the time I saw a client bill and realized they were charging 5-6x my hourly for my work to clients. Still, what you do for a company like Google would be a lot harder to quantify (or explain to a client), and it's probably a lot more personally gratifying. I'm probably an asshole to say this, but I'm reasonably sure I could've gotten a job with Google in 2001-2; and at that point I didn't want to work in that kind of office. I went back to LA and drove a taxi for a year and a half, and wrote a novel, to clear my head. The thing that makes me flinch about it is the competitive nature of the job, even if your job shouldn't have to be competitive. The open offices, the personal time, all of these things make you run faster rather than being allowed to slow down and think. And if you get to thinking about who you're running for...who knows? As insulated as you are from the clients -- which is great -- you also almost never get to see the direct result of your own work. So what emerges is this endless Senior Year of High School, where everyone's waiting to be recommended or get their acceptance letters, while partially slacking off while looking like they're on their best behavior. I'm not sure that's a way I'd be willing to spend my life. I make about 1/5th what you do, probably, for about the same level of work and commitment to my own startup. But I don't envy your job.

Aloisius 15y ago

When I was younger, I would have considered the Google environment to be perfect. A utopia for software engineers - especially if you have to be in the suburbs like Mountain View. The size would never have worked for me, but seeing something similar implemented at a startup level would have been my dream. Now on my fourth startup, I feel it's unhealthy for the employees and the company. Having everyone's life revolve around a corporate culture is stifling. Employees lose perspective and balance. They lose touch with people who are not like them. Monoculture develops; groupthink flourishes. It is a dangerous thing to be completely dependent on a company for basic necessities or for your friends. It makes it hard to leave everything you knew behind. It makes people defensive when any criticism of the company is raised since it attacks their way of life. While a comfortable work environment is important, I reject the idea that employees should be encouraged, even passively, to stay at work all the time. I think employees should have a life outside of work involving people who aren't at the company and don't work in tech.

true_religion 15y ago
Maybe its just the connotation of the words, but do you really believe that Google culture is both dangerous and unhealthy?
- Aloisius 15y ago
  I do indeed. Not unhealthy in the sense of danger to people's bodies, but certainly I think it can easily stunt personal development and in the long run, harm the company by creating an insular monoculture. A company can only succeed long-term if it understands its customers. Google, if it continues down this path, will only understand Google.
paulhauggis 15y ago
Even if I could make it past the interview stage, I would never want to work at Google. No matter how nice the work environment is it still feels like they are prettying up a cage. They make it feel like you can come and go and blur the line between life and work..but you are still just an employee. You can't build a company on the side while working at Google (without their blessing or cut) and you are still told what to do.

nostrademons 15y ago

I can tell that this was written by an outsider, because it focuses on the perks and rehashes several cliches that have made their way into the popular media but aren't all that accurate. Most Googlers will tell you that the best thing about working there is having the ability to work on really hard problems, with really smart coworkers, and lots of resources at your disposal. I remember asking my interviewer whether I could use things like Google's index if I had a cool 20% idea, and he was like "Sure. That's encouraged. Oftentimes I'll just grab 4000 or so machines and run a MapReduce to test out some hypothesis." My phone screener, when I asked him what it was like to work there, said "It's a place where really smart people go to be average," which has turned out to be both true and honestly one of the best things that I've gained from working there. A lot of the observations in the article fall out of this, but in ways that are less sound-bitey. Google doesn't enforce set working hours - you can get in as late as you want (the latest I've been in is around 4:15 PM, but that was because I had a DMV appointment, the latest from just not waking up was about 2:00), stay as late as you want (my latest was about 1:00 AM, though I worked from home until 6:00 AM last Thursday), duck out during the day if you're meeting a friend or have a date or need to pick a sick kid up from school, or work from home as necessary. You also don't have a set workload: you do as much work as you think is appropriate and then go home. The thing is - you are surrounded by incredibly intelligent & fiercely hard-working people. Many of them were used to being top-dog at whatever institution they came from before - hell, many were top dog (we have a lot of ex-startup-founders; there's a good chance that you're working with someone that's founded a company or originated a successful open-source project). And that can be a big adjustment, and the types of folks that Google typically hire usually react to not being on top by working harder. It's up to you to set limits on the amount of time you're willing to spend working, and most new hires at Google are used to being limited by "the amount of work my boss/professor/thesis advisor throws at me", not by the number of hours in the day.

sliverstorm 15y ago
I don't work at Google, but I must say that being surrounded by incredibly intelligent & fiercely hard-working people is awesome- among other things, I always have something to aspire to, and somewhere to grow.
15y ago

slewis 15y ago

This is article is very light on evidence, citing one engineer the author spoke with. Having worked there I'd say the article is unfairly one-sided. There are plenty of Googlers who maintain a normal work-life balance.

emmapersky 15y ago

> The software engineer I spoke with... One is not a valid sample. Other than a single persons perspective, everything else is speculation. Disclaimer: I work for Google.

snewman 15y ago

FWIW, this doesn't especially match my experience at Google. (I was an engineer there for four years, ending about a year and a half ago. I doubt things have changed drastically since then.) Most of the descriptions about the environment and perks are accurate, though the article may somewhat exaggerate the extent to which people participate. However, I never felt pressure to devote my life to the company, and certainly there was no direct connection between hours worked and compensation. Long term, the biggest personal variables in Google compensation are promotions and stock grants. The biggest determinant of those, in turn (luck and politics aside) is a perception that you're doing important/great work. Burning the midnight oil is not necessarily going to help with that, and it's certainly not the only way to get there. Maybe the culture is different in other parts of the company. But I don't think it could be that different... there's a deliberate process for bringing people together from different parts of the organization to make decisions on promotions.

neild 15y ago

Speaking as a fairly recent Google hire: No, this is not what it's really like to work at Google. I considered writing more, but really, what else is there to say? Working at Google is not defined by the presence of cafeterias, alcoholism is not a way of life, and overwork is no more prevalent than any other Silicon Valley company I've worked at.

raldi 15y ago
Seconded.
- zellyn 15y ago
  Thirded.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - moocow01 15y ago
      Googlers: there is an up vote button next to posts you can click to express agreement
      - mvgoogler 15y ago
        Wow - all these years on HN and I never noticed that! </sarcasm> Yeah - I also clicked on the arrow. The problem is that nobody except the poster will see that. I wanted a more public statement of support. I could have added a comment that essentially duplicates what others have said - but I was feeling a bit flippant so I decided to have a little fun and post what I did. Sorry if I offended you.
        iusable 15y ago
        Happy that you mentioned this. I recently got downvoted 3 times cause I wanted to express public support verbally as well.

shazow 15y ago

It doesn't seem to me that the father of the 18-month old son is trading the chance to spend time with his offspring for cold hard work, but rather trading it for salsa dancing classes, a couple of pints at the bar with his friends, and whatever else fancies him out of the thousands of distractions on campus. I've heard all too many stories of people "working" insane hours at Google only to find out that they're merely working normal hours and spending the rest of their time living at Google. And it's great to have the option to do that. (Disclaimer: I've been working/living at Google for 2.5 months now.)

ChuckMcM 15y ago
During my time there I remember on guy who was at the office a lot, at dinner time his family would come to Google and eat dinner with him at Charlie's. Sometimes on weekends they would eat lunch with him too. Just before I left, Google started trying to enforce the 1 guest a month 'rule' where you had to sign in with both who you were visiting, and whether or not you were going to eat a meal. If you were, your guest badge would say 'guest (meal)'. I guess the idea was that one could algorithmically filter out folks who were abusing the option. The security guys would hassle the folks who didn't have '(meal)' on their guest badges. I saw a lot of people who were visiting "Larry Page, guest (meal)" and I thought that was pretty funny. I also noticed that this guy who used to spend time with his family at meal times now didn't. I felt badly for him. I could not decide if he had been abusing Google before by abusing his 'guest' privilege or if Google was abusing him now by not allowing him this option for some family time. A little of both I guess.
- nostrademons 15y ago
  He does have the option of going home for dinner, just like at any other company. Most of my teammates with families do that.
  - jrockway 15y ago
    I haven't noticed any limit on guests at Google NYC, either. I was never under the impression that Google didn't want you to have guests. (I did read something suggesting that you should feel bad for eating more than $3 worth of microkitchen stuff per day. I don't think I hit the $3 threshold, but if I did, I wouldn't feel bad.)

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

joezydeco 15y ago

Wow, was the Jonestown reference really necessary? That was a low-class move to pull at the end.

notJim 15y ago

It's strange how this article praises what appears to be a lifestyle that's utterly devoted to and centered a corporation as a good thing. The guy spends his day doing Google things (some work, some merely provided by Google), goes home and sees his family for a couple hours, does a few more Google things, then goes to bed. Surely our lives should involve more than that.

hn_reader 15y ago
Perhaps the guy feels his work is important and derives personal satisfaction from it. That might make him happier in the long run and a better husband and father.
- wavephorm 15y ago
  Or maybe this guy has become convinced that devoting his most productive years to help a corporation earn more profit is more rewarding than building a business where he owns 100% of his work.

psn 15y ago

I work there. Its been four and a lot years. I don't work in mountain view, though. working hours: I average 40h a week. Which is what all the studies say is optimal. The key perk here is picking your hours. If I'm feeling hungover, I work less. If I'm on a roll, I work more. If I have to wait at home for half a day to let in my landlord or something, thats fine. As long as work get done, no one cares. no one clock-watches. I do think there is a correlation between working hard and getting promoted, but its not that strong a correlation - my last promotion came at the end of working 40h weeks... I can't imagine people feeling like they have to leave because they aren't putting in stupid hours. boozing: there is a certain amount of company paid for drink. there is a certain amount of people bringing in booze. However, the line has been drawn about having a drink and then working. And really, on the scale of drinking, google is kinda lame. At tgif I think the most I've managed is a couple of beers. Another twist on the "smart people" thing: its not about everyone being smart, its about no one being stupid. I don't have to spend tons of my time explaining stuff to people. I don't have any co-workers where it would be faster to do their work for them. grades etc: I do run into people who name drop uni or test results or whatever, but most of the time, no one cares. I work with people who studied a subject completely different to computers at uni. I work with people who never bothered with uni. I do think there a bits of the company where going to mit over random uni still matters, but I don't work with those bits. My big dislike is that its a big company - there is lots of existing code and systems, some of which is showing its age, its hard to change company policy on the big issues, you do feel like one in X cogs, and there is a lot of internal bikeshedding.

jjm 15y ago

Google still and probably will always appeal to me as a team I'd join to solve hard problems. Even if they invent some of those problems themselves. I'm all for seeing your family but I think you can strike a balance. Google can put in a single room several great thinkers and engineers where 100 years from now people will look back and marvel.

rdl 15y ago

The experience of people I know at Google seems to vary incredibly based on direct supervisor (like any company) and the specific project you're doing. There are people I know who have gotten stuck on high-revenue but to-them uninteresting teams, couldn't easily shift to other parts of google, so they left. If you could get the right team (and had a cool direct supervisor, or had enough status to force this), it seems like a pretty awesome place to work. If you want to have a huge impact, working for a company like Google or Facebook, in the right capacity, pretty much guarantees it. Not having to worry if checks will clear, if kitchens will be stocked, etc. is a nice benefit on top of that. (If I could get the job of "make Android the most secure mobile OS, using some of the stuff from ChromeOS, and utterly crush all other mobile platforms in the Enterprise, I'd be really tempted; or the same thing for an EC2-killer from Google, also built around security.)

codeonfire 15y ago

One very positive thing about Google is that it is like the Jupiter of the software solar system, sweeping up many of the most self absorbed, "look at me" people in the industry. That's not meant to be derogatory or a sweeping statement (some people relish in their self absorption), but it's nice that many of these people are in one spot.

WalterBright 15y ago

The article suggests (ok, it does more than suggest) that one receives promotions at Google based on how hard one works or how many hours one puts in. Is that really the case? Shouldn't it be based on how effectively you work, i.e. your contribution to the company?

jrockway 15y ago
Of course. Is there any real job where you get promoted regardless of the quality of your work? (I guess postal clerks get promoted every 10 years or whatever. But you know what I mean.) Google is like every company I've ever worked for, except that instead of the promise of promotions, people actually do get promoted.

greggman 15y ago

Another googler here. I don't see people over working. My boss, who I totally respect as a programmer, leaves at 5pm every day. So did my previous boss. Both have families. Both work hard the entire time they are at Google. Both go home at a reasonable hour. I'd say the same of pretty much all my teammates. The place is nearly empty by 7pm but none of them were slacking during the day. I also agree with another googler's post here. Google, more than any other company I've worked with, tries to make sure nothing gets in your way. Need another monitor, hard drive, more ram, higher desk, cable, mouse, keyboard. They just give it to you asap. Need another machine, ask your boss. I've never been denied, machine shows up asap. Compare this to my previous job where our build server was out of space and it took 6 EFFING MONTHS FOR THEM TO A APPROVE A $100 hard drive! WTF!!! The perks are nice and also help you get more done in less time so you can go have your life. Not having to drive to a gym = 10-20 minutes of your life back. Being able to see a doctor on campus if you want means 20-40 minutes of your life back. Eating lunch on campus also probably means, on average, 30 mins a day of your life back although you are welcome to take a long lunch. I'd say at least twice a week some of my coworkers and I walk to a different building for lunch for the walk. Other perks include a gazillion talks. (http://www.youtube.com/user/GoogleTechTalks/videos http://www.youtube.com/user/GoogleTechTalks/videos). That's obviously not the entire list but I've personally not worked at a company before where I could go attend anything other than team meetings. I've worked far more hours at every previous job. Usually because of bad management. I'm not trying to say Google is perfect but most of the people trying to find issues seem to be grasping at straws and making stuff up.

lrobb 15y ago

It's one thing to say there's no set hours, it's another thing entirely to be in a place where you're surrounded by workaholics and your performance is measured on what you produce -- think about it: if you don't burn yourself at both ends, you'll be on the low end of productivity.

tytso 15y ago

I've been at Google two years, in the Cambridge office. I work pretty long hours, but part of that is because work is my hobby. I'd be working on the ext4 file system whether Google paid me or not. It's something that I'm passionate about it. Heck, even if I won a lottery and had a $20 million dollar windfall, I'd probably still be working there, because it's incredibly fun working with lots of smart people, and I'm at a place where I can definitely and directly see how my work is making a difference. So people who talk about it as being a velvet cage have gotten it all wrong. It's a cage, if you want to call it a cage, that I've chosen of my own free will; it's how I've wanted to spend my time even before I joined Google. Google has simply removed obstacles from allowing me to work on my passion as much as I like; in general, I think it's fair to say that Google wants to find people who are smart and passionate at what they do; those for whom their work is a joy, and not just something they do so they can put bread on the table. As far as promotions are concerned, the criteria at least for software engineers is pretty simple: it's a matter of demonstrating that you are already working at your new level, in terms of technical expertise, scope of your work, and impact to the company. As far as I'm concerned, that's the way it should be at any company where good engineers would want to hang their hat.

unfocused 15y ago

The sentiment I have is that of the 30 year old. When I was 19 and working as a hardware and software designer at a start up, my boss found out that I had come in on a Saturday and worked all day. I thought it was cool and awesome to design hardware, and then write the firmware for it. He was #5 out of 120 employees with 20+ years of experience. He took me to the side and said, one day, you will have a family. Working on the weekend and long hours should not be something you strive for. He worked 9 to 5, and so did the rest of the team. I'm 33 now and have a 2 month old. I work 9 to 5 Mon to Friday. No more, no less. His was the best advice ever given by a manager of mine. Only took me 14 years to "get it" :)