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This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require pr

This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anything they are right and you must meekly accept it and bow your head in shame. The worst part of it is at most of the companies with strong DEI programs there are zero minorities in leadership. it's a dog and pony show that is only forced upon the non sr. leadership. You even have companies doing layoffs now intentionally focused on laying off non minorities. Another issue is that Asians while less in number than most other minorities are treated as white by DEI. I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues.

adamsmith143 4y ago
>I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. Considering the book banning he just enacted this seems like an extremely short sighted and poorly thought out reasoning.
- Manuel_D 4y ago
  Banning books from public school libraries has nearly zero effect on what students are exposed to. Did you ever check out a book from the school library? I never did, the actual municipal library had a much better selection. Harry Potter was banned from plenty of libraries for witchcraft, and it's sales demonstrate how futile it was.
  - lukeschlather 4y ago
    I read dozens (possibly hundreds?) of books in my school library as a student. We're not just talking about "the library" either. We're talking about the books that are made available to students during classroom free time in elementary school.
  - baseballdork 4y ago
    > Did you ever check out a book from the school library? I never did ... That's fascinating to me. I checked out books all the time. In fact, we were required to check out books for various assignments. We also had a program called AR (accelerated reading) where you would be able to take a quiz on a library book and gather points which let you get various prizes, up to principal for the day.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    > Did you ever check out a book from the school library? Constantly. It was the only library I could get to regularly and I had a voracious appetite for reading.
  - mikebenfield 4y ago
    > Did you ever check out a book from the school library? Uh, yeah. All the time actually.
  - adamsmith143 4y ago
    I probably checked out dozens. But the problem also extends to classrooms themselves where teachers have thrown out entire shelves of books.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  He banned books? They are illegal to possess in the state? Or did he just have certain books removed from the curriculum or deemed inappropriate to teach in school? One is a serious accusation, the other is something that's done every day. You see a lot of copies of Mein Kampf in elementary school libraries? How about playboy magazines? Schools are always reevaluating what they deem appropriate, let's not blow it out of proportion and use wildly inappropriate and inflammatory words to describe it.
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    [dead]
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      "no books at all" is a result of them voluntarily making things worse to try to win political points. That's not what any law required.
      - esporx 4y ago
        [flagged]
        remarkEon 4y ago
        You can read the law in question here[1]. Parents must have a venue to object to instructional content, and porn in school libraries is already illegal under a prior law about giving porn to minors. What is unclear about this? [1] https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1467/BillText/er/PDF https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1467/BillText/er/...
        hgielatan 4y ago
        [dead]
        4y ago
- Dig1t 4y ago
  You can get the books at any store or library. Removing graphic depictions and descriptions of gay sex from elementary school libraries is not controversial.
edgyquant 4y ago
>worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues Yep. There’s likely going to be a huge blowback to all of this and the supporters will write it off as the country being full of racists. At this point I no longer care. This is draconian stuff.
- cmh89 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    The irony is that it requires a tremendous amount of privilege and insulation from the problems of the world to vote for somebody because they happen to stand against some people that you happen to disagree with, in total disregard of all the other horrible stuff that person does and says.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    I mean if that's the case then I would probably have to vote for Desantis again. Florida economy is doing well. No Income tax and it's currently the fastest growing state by population so others must think the same.
    - cmh89 4y ago
      Sure, the quality of life affluent white people in Florida is pretty great, especially when the US government bails you out after every big storm. Not everyone is an affluent white person though.
      - wonderwonder 4y ago
        Pretty confident you could swap out the name 'Florida' with any of the 50 states and your statement would be true. Why is it an exception if it's true in Florida?
adamsmith143 4y ago
What seems strange to me is that there's this belief that an minority with degrees from Ivy League schools that went to Private School as a child and has wealthy parents is defacto more "diverse" than a White candidate that went to State Universities and was on reduced lunch as a child. They seem interested in creating faculty photos that look diverse in a picture frame but include people who went to the same 10 schools for their PhD, the same 10 for undergrad and the same 20 private High Schools.
astrange 4y ago
> I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. He's not going to do anything about it. He's going to start a few fights to get press attention, then give up on it as soon as they stop paying attention, since he's just running your state government as PR for a presidential campaign. (You may remember he started a fight with Disney over being too woke or something and threatened to cancel their special powers over their parks, but the actual bill came out today and does approximately nothing. Although it does remove their unused rights to own an airport or a nuclear reactor.)
- lflfofodpld 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - whatshisface 4y ago
    I wish more people were citing their sources and stuff in this thread.
- Dig1t 4y ago
  Welp, we have 2 choices, the person who SAYS they are against it, and the person who is an advocate for it. The only option we have is to vote for the person who at least says they are going to do something about it. That's just how American politics goes.
  - astrange 4y ago
    What politician says they're an advocate for DEI statements in university hiring?
- tablespoon 4y ago
  >> I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. > He's not going to do anything about it. He's going to start a few fights to get press attention, then give up on it as soon as they stop paying attention, since he's just running your state government as PR for a presidential campaign. So who will do something about it? I ask because I often see arguments as yours as a tactic to encourage passivity or for someone to take action against their own goals (e.g. "the people who seem to agree with you are only doing it for show[, so stay home or vote for the people who disagree with you]").
SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
> It's the civil rights movement in reverse. Is it? Here's what MLK has written: > “Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic.” > “A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro.” > “A section of the white population, perceiving Negro pressure for change, misconstrues it as a demand for privileges rather than as a desperate quest for existence. The ensuing white backlash intimidates government officials who are already too timorous.” DEI initiatives, when executed correctly, show substantially and consistently superior outcomes for the people and organizations who implement them. You will see more, and more successful, DEI initiatives for the rest of your life, because they work. Companies who are successful will tend to be companies who execute DEI initiatives well (I can post many high quality sources if folks are interested). It's completely fair to criticize bad implementations of DEI, and we all know there are a lot of those, but to throw the baby out with the bath water here would be a mistake, and not one corporations will make willingly. You'd have to be pretty militant and aggressive with the law in order to stop companies from pursuing a win/win like DEI.
- lflfofodpld 4y ago
  Lmao your argument is "real DEI has never been tried"
  - esporx 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    Real DEI is tried. But everyone complains about the sucky implementations. Here's an equity implementation that seemed to work: https://www.corporatecomplianceinsights.com/how-successful-dei-initiatives-actually-work/ https://www.corporatecomplianceinsights.com/how-successful-d... > Schulman realized he had to do something about the large gap between the lower-paid employees and the rest of the company. “Imagine asking people to double down on serving customers when they’re more financially stressed than ever before, when they don’t even have healthcare benefits,” he told Insider. So PayPal raised wages for lower-level workers by about 7 percent – not a huge amount, but enough to ease money worries – and gave them restricted stock units so they could share in PayPal’s success. The company also covered more healthcare costs, cutting the amount lower-level employees contribute by around 58 percent. > Employee turnover has been cut in half Here is a diversity initiative enacted politically: https://www.hrdive.com/news/virginia-outlaws-hair-discrimination/573713/ https://www.hrdive.com/news/virginia-outlaws-hair-discrimina... > Discrimination based on hair texture, type and hairstyles such as braids, locks and twists will be illegal in Virginia starting July 1. Gov. Ralph Northam signed a bill on March 4 that “clarifies” that when the law bans discrimination “on the basis of race,” that includes “traits historically associated with race, including hair texture, hair type, and protective hairstyles such as braids, locks, and twists.” I'm sure I could fine more examples if I didn't have a meeting in 5 minutes.
jrm4 4y ago
It's clumsy for sure. Potentially dangerous in the future, I think. But I really really really need for people, like you, who are annoyed by it and whatnot to really see the bigger picture here. I have no problem turning the dial down on "DEI" as practiced if and only if we effectively address and recognize the ways in which these people actively do throw minorities under the bus in other ways; e.g. gerrymandering, reductions in public services, etc. I know it's difficult to address these holistically, but the agenda of the guy you voted for is not to help any culture besides him and his cronies.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  When forced to choose between the effects of Gerrymandering vs my kids being penalized for the rest of their lives for being white then I am forced to choose Gerrymandering every time and I hate that this is the choice I'm presented with. I'm not a fan of Desantis at all but I am even less of a fan of this woke (I hate using the term, it sounds like a caricature) movement. My kids happen to be white, heterosexual males, they should not be vilified for it and that's the route I see so many pushing for. Until that changes I am forced to vote for people like him.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    Forced to huh? https://thenib.com/fault-right/ https://thenib.com/fault-right/
    - wonderwonder 4y ago
      This is the exact thing I am talking about. It takes all of the real concerns that people who voted for Trump have and resorts to calling them Nazis and you post it as a witty response. I did not vote for Trump I very much dislike him on a personal and political level. I never at any time discounted the reasons that people did vote for him though because they are my fellow citizens and people that I am friends with and form a community with. Many of them are very intelligent people. To discount the concerns of others and just blatantly call 50% of the countries population Nazis is childish and shows a lack of seriousness. Grow up, you will find that most people you see as enemies have a lot of the same concerns and values that you do.
rayiner 4y ago
> Another issue is that Asians while less in number than most other minorities are treated as white by DEI. Asian kids stand to be hurt the most by this. They want asian kids to view themselves as oppressed minorities (e.g. the California ethnic studies curriculum). They make thinly veiled accusations that our cultural traits (keeping our heads down and not complaining) is an effort to uphold white supremacy. But when the chips are down, they’ll categorize Asians as “white.”
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  I have a really hard time trying to sort through the victim olympics of this statement to determine who wins the gold here. White is a slippery definition though - on that much I suppose I can agree. Ricky Ricardo would never have been allowed to be shown married to a white woman on TV back when his show was airing if Cubans weren't considered white too. Jews sort of come and go from being white as well, but I don't know the factors that determine that.
  - goatlover 4y ago
    Apparently there is ongoing debate within the US census as to whether Hispanic should be treated as an ethnic category. Some Hispanics have objected to being placed in the white racial category as opposed to just being called Hispanic. I'm thinking at some point in the future we'll realize that racial categories don't make much sense.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      “Hispanic” isn’t an ethnic category. There are Hispanics of mostly European descent, Hispanics of mainly African descent, etc. It’s a clumsy umbrella term, but is vaguely workable insofar as it gestures in the general direction of a set of nationalities with related cultures. “Asian” is even worse since it refers to a group of people who share neither ethnicity nor culture. It’s a label that is workable only because these unrelated groups share some common experiences in America due to immigration patterns. Even there, though, Indian immigrants and Vietnamese refugees have little in common.
fallingknife 4y ago
> I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. Yeah, I hate the Republicans. But I vote for them now.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  I guess this is the new single issue voting?
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    It is for me and I really dislike it. First time I've ever voted Republican. I still voted Dem on the federal level but had to think about it.
    - fallingknife 4y ago
      Why do you switch to D on the federal level? They seem like the main people pushing this nonsense through regulations. Because of Trump, I assume? It is pretty hard to vote for him.
      - wonderwonder 4y ago
        I have always voted D. It was a major break for me to vote R at the state level. It took some soul searching. Now the bandaid is off I may vote R on the federal level, it really depends on the candidate. You are right though, I could not vote for Trump. I find myself enjoying divided government now. It optimally prevents new crazy legislation from becoming law and hopefully if something is important both sides will come together and get it done. May be wishful thinking though. I very much dislike both parties at the moment.
bArray 4y ago
> This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. It's worse, you tell somebody they are a victim enough, and they begin to believe it, they even play the role of a victim. You are now starting to see a generation of young minorities that have become what they are told they are. You now have a permanent victim class. > It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anything they are right and you must meekly accept it and bow your head in shame. The result in this will simply be that people avoid interactions with people who pose a risk to them. You already see for example men are very cautious of being alone with women, or teachers alone with students. > You even have companies doing layoffs now intentionally focused on laying off non minorities. Those who choose this policy over merit deserve the rotten companies they are creating. Ultimately you do end up with what you optimize for. > Another issue is that Asians while less in number than most other minorities are treated as white by DEI. White Asians are a problem for the ideology, because they are a minority that statistically does well. They have to treat them as white, otherwise the ideology falls apart. > I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. You'll probably find they are already being indoctrinated. I have teacher friends working in younger education who admit on social media they purposefully neglect boys when picking students with their hands up, and similar scenarios. Statistically men before this movement were doing worse than their female counterparts, I hate to think where we are after another 10 years time.
- goatlover 4y ago
  And if you're a minority group like Asians, Hispanics or African immigrants, you get called terms like white-adjacent or internalizing racism when upholding values of hard work and discipline to get ahead, because those are somehow values of a "white supremacist" society.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    I'm still recovering from the Smithsonian's presentation on whiteness (which I assume you are referencing) that listed white negative traits as things like: Planning for the future Delayed Gratification Self Reliance Adherence to the nuclear family Objective, Rational thinking Hard work being the key to success
bobleeswagger 4y ago
> It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anything they are right and you must meekly accept it and bow your head in shame. This happened, exactly as you describe, before my eyes at a well known education startup in Denver 2 years ago. HR representatives publicly humiliated someone for defending protestors on January 6th. Their take was entirely in bounds and amounted to "I think we're talking past one another with the heightened rhetoric, we should have more compassion for other perspectives." They later were forced to publicly apologize for their "short-sighted comments" that "harmed BIPOCs." It was insane. Looking back, that place was a leftist echo chamber like I have never seen, and hope to never see again. Really sucks how much politics is still driving a "data-driven" world.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
It is the toxic rule book of middle management. Treat your underlings differently and they fight each other instead of you. This is cynical and assumes motivation without evidence and it will not always be correct. Perhaps not even in the majority of cases. But I believe DEI proponents often insist on the effects instead of the motivation in the first place. Bad word is a bad word, regardless of the context and such arguments...
taylodl 4y ago
People were saying these exact same things back in the 1980's. It's a right-wing bogeyman and they use it to scare people because it works. Just like it did with you. The thing is racism, at least the racism that actually matters to people's quality of life, is systemic. You're black? Higher mortgage rate for you, even if all other factors are the same. You're Asian? Then you're probably the better student, even if all other factors are the same. The point of DEI is for you to recognize prejudices exist, we're all prejudiced in some way, and what steps are you going to take to prevent your prejudices from clouding your judgement. It's not about minorities getting preferential treatment (outside of the context of reparations which is a highly controversial topic), but making sure minorities get a fair shot. And in case you're wondering, yes, I remember "the good old days" when minorities were targeted for mass layoffs. I'd argue if we weren't such assholes then we wouldn't have most of the problems we have in society but we just can't help ourselves, can we?
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  "It's a right-wing bogeyman and they use it to scare people because it works. Just like it did with you." Your right, I'm an idiot unable to think for myself. Me and everyone else that believes this. People who believe as you do are the only intelligent ones able to think for themselves. Everything I have experienced related to DEI is not real and part of the massive collective hallucination experienced by anyone that doesn't 100% support it. Being told to "sit in my shame" was good. The VP of DEI responding to Asians expressing fear during the rash of unwarranted attacks on them a year ago by other minorities by telling them white supremacy was to blame was good. Thank you for showing me the light. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
  - freejazz 4y ago
    >"Your right, I'm an idiot unable to think for myself. It is bold of you to admit this, but I commend you, even despite your apparent and admitted idiocy.
    - 4y ago
Dig1t 4y ago
There's only one race that we're allowed to openly wish for genocide for: Wired Magazine: "A Glimpse of a Future Without White People" https://www.wired.com/story/mohsin-hamid-the-last-white-man https://www.wired.com/story/mohsin-hamid-the-last-white-man It's the same one we're supposed to discriminate against in the workplace.
Forgeties79 4y ago
>it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. I keep seeing this statement but I never really get an explanation as to how it makes them a "special lesser class" or it's the "civil right movement in reverse." Could you elaborate? >says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anything they are right and you must meekly accept it and bow your head in shame. I would like to see the language that says this.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. No, mandatory DEI statements (statements about how a person has and/or plans to advance the institutions diversity goals through their work) do not treat minorities as lesser or needing “protection”.

adamsmith143 4y ago

>I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. Considering the book banning he just enacted this seems like an extremely short sighted and poorly thought out reasoning.

Manuel_D 4y ago
Banning books from public school libraries has nearly zero effect on what students are exposed to. Did you ever check out a book from the school library? I never did, the actual municipal library had a much better selection. Harry Potter was banned from plenty of libraries for witchcraft, and it's sales demonstrate how futile it was.
- lukeschlather 4y ago
  I read dozens (possibly hundreds?) of books in my school library as a student. We're not just talking about "the library" either. We're talking about the books that are made available to students during classroom free time in elementary school.
- baseballdork 4y ago
  > Did you ever check out a book from the school library? I never did ... That's fascinating to me. I checked out books all the time. In fact, we were required to check out books for various assignments. We also had a program called AR (accelerated reading) where you would be able to take a quiz on a library book and gather points which let you get various prizes, up to principal for the day.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  > Did you ever check out a book from the school library? Constantly. It was the only library I could get to regularly and I had a voracious appetite for reading.
- mikebenfield 4y ago
  > Did you ever check out a book from the school library? Uh, yeah. All the time actually.
- adamsmith143 4y ago
  I probably checked out dozens. But the problem also extends to classrooms themselves where teachers have thrown out entire shelves of books.
wonderwonder 4y ago
He banned books? They are illegal to possess in the state? Or did he just have certain books removed from the curriculum or deemed inappropriate to teach in school? One is a serious accusation, the other is something that's done every day. You see a lot of copies of Mein Kampf in elementary school libraries? How about playboy magazines? Schools are always reevaluating what they deem appropriate, let's not blow it out of proportion and use wildly inappropriate and inflammatory words to describe it.
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  [dead]
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    "no books at all" is a result of them voluntarily making things worse to try to win political points. That's not what any law required.
    - esporx 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - remarkEon 4y ago
        You can read the law in question here[1]. Parents must have a venue to object to instructional content, and porn in school libraries is already illegal under a prior law about giving porn to minors. What is unclear about this? [1] https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1467/BillText/er/PDF https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1467/BillText/er/...
        hgielatan 4y ago
        [dead]
        4y ago
Dig1t 4y ago
You can get the books at any store or library. Removing graphic depictions and descriptions of gay sex from elementary school libraries is not controversial.

edgyquant 4y ago

>worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues Yep. There’s likely going to be a huge blowback to all of this and the supporters will write it off as the country being full of racists. At this point I no longer care. This is draconian stuff.

cmh89 4y ago
[flagged]
- nerdponx 4y ago
  The irony is that it requires a tremendous amount of privilege and insulation from the problems of the world to vote for somebody because they happen to stand against some people that you happen to disagree with, in total disregard of all the other horrible stuff that person does and says.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  I mean if that's the case then I would probably have to vote for Desantis again. Florida economy is doing well. No Income tax and it's currently the fastest growing state by population so others must think the same.
  - cmh89 4y ago
    Sure, the quality of life affluent white people in Florida is pretty great, especially when the US government bails you out after every big storm. Not everyone is an affluent white person though.
    - wonderwonder 4y ago
      Pretty confident you could swap out the name 'Florida' with any of the 50 states and your statement would be true. Why is it an exception if it's true in Florida?

adamsmith143 4y ago

What seems strange to me is that there's this belief that an minority with degrees from Ivy League schools that went to Private School as a child and has wealthy parents is defacto more "diverse" than a White candidate that went to State Universities and was on reduced lunch as a child. They seem interested in creating faculty photos that look diverse in a picture frame but include people who went to the same 10 schools for their PhD, the same 10 for undergrad and the same 20 private High Schools.

astrange 4y ago

> I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. He's not going to do anything about it. He's going to start a few fights to get press attention, then give up on it as soon as they stop paying attention, since he's just running your state government as PR for a presidential campaign. (You may remember he started a fight with Disney over being too woke or something and threatened to cancel their special powers over their parks, but the actual bill came out today and does approximately nothing. Although it does remove their unused rights to own an airport or a nuclear reactor.)

lflfofodpld 4y ago
[flagged]
- whatshisface 4y ago
  I wish more people were citing their sources and stuff in this thread.
Dig1t 4y ago
Welp, we have 2 choices, the person who SAYS they are against it, and the person who is an advocate for it. The only option we have is to vote for the person who at least says they are going to do something about it. That's just how American politics goes.
- astrange 4y ago
  What politician says they're an advocate for DEI statements in university hiring?
tablespoon 4y ago
>> I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. > He's not going to do anything about it. He's going to start a few fights to get press attention, then give up on it as soon as they stop paying attention, since he's just running your state government as PR for a presidential campaign. So who will do something about it? I ask because I often see arguments as yours as a tactic to encourage passivity or for someone to take action against their own goals (e.g. "the people who seem to agree with you are only doing it for show[, so stay home or vote for the people who disagree with you]").

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago

> It's the civil rights movement in reverse. Is it? Here's what MLK has written: > “Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic.” > “A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro.” > “A section of the white population, perceiving Negro pressure for change, misconstrues it as a demand for privileges rather than as a desperate quest for existence. The ensuing white backlash intimidates government officials who are already too timorous.” DEI initiatives, when executed correctly, show substantially and consistently superior outcomes for the people and organizations who implement them. You will see more, and more successful, DEI initiatives for the rest of your life, because they work. Companies who are successful will tend to be companies who execute DEI initiatives well (I can post many high quality sources if folks are interested). It's completely fair to criticize bad implementations of DEI, and we all know there are a lot of those, but to throw the baby out with the bath water here would be a mistake, and not one corporations will make willingly. You'd have to be pretty militant and aggressive with the law in order to stop companies from pursuing a win/win like DEI.

lflfofodpld 4y ago
Lmao your argument is "real DEI has never been tried"
- esporx 4y ago
  [flagged]
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  Real DEI is tried. But everyone complains about the sucky implementations. Here's an equity implementation that seemed to work: https://www.corporatecomplianceinsights.com/how-successful-dei-initiatives-actually-work/ https://www.corporatecomplianceinsights.com/how-successful-d... > Schulman realized he had to do something about the large gap between the lower-paid employees and the rest of the company. “Imagine asking people to double down on serving customers when they’re more financially stressed than ever before, when they don’t even have healthcare benefits,” he told Insider. So PayPal raised wages for lower-level workers by about 7 percent – not a huge amount, but enough to ease money worries – and gave them restricted stock units so they could share in PayPal’s success. The company also covered more healthcare costs, cutting the amount lower-level employees contribute by around 58 percent. > Employee turnover has been cut in half Here is a diversity initiative enacted politically: https://www.hrdive.com/news/virginia-outlaws-hair-discrimination/573713/ https://www.hrdive.com/news/virginia-outlaws-hair-discrimina... > Discrimination based on hair texture, type and hairstyles such as braids, locks and twists will be illegal in Virginia starting July 1. Gov. Ralph Northam signed a bill on March 4 that “clarifies” that when the law bans discrimination “on the basis of race,” that includes “traits historically associated with race, including hair texture, hair type, and protective hairstyles such as braids, locks, and twists.” I'm sure I could fine more examples if I didn't have a meeting in 5 minutes.

jrm4 4y ago

It's clumsy for sure. Potentially dangerous in the future, I think. But I really really really need for people, like you, who are annoyed by it and whatnot to really see the bigger picture here. I have no problem turning the dial down on "DEI" as practiced if and only if we effectively address and recognize the ways in which these people actively do throw minorities under the bus in other ways; e.g. gerrymandering, reductions in public services, etc. I know it's difficult to address these holistically, but the agenda of the guy you voted for is not to help any culture besides him and his cronies.

wonderwonder 4y ago
When forced to choose between the effects of Gerrymandering vs my kids being penalized for the rest of their lives for being white then I am forced to choose Gerrymandering every time and I hate that this is the choice I'm presented with. I'm not a fan of Desantis at all but I am even less of a fan of this woke (I hate using the term, it sounds like a caricature) movement. My kids happen to be white, heterosexual males, they should not be vilified for it and that's the route I see so many pushing for. Until that changes I am forced to vote for people like him.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  Forced to huh? https://thenib.com/fault-right/ https://thenib.com/fault-right/
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    This is the exact thing I am talking about. It takes all of the real concerns that people who voted for Trump have and resorts to calling them Nazis and you post it as a witty response. I did not vote for Trump I very much dislike him on a personal and political level. I never at any time discounted the reasons that people did vote for him though because they are my fellow citizens and people that I am friends with and form a community with. Many of them are very intelligent people. To discount the concerns of others and just blatantly call 50% of the countries population Nazis is childish and shows a lack of seriousness. Grow up, you will find that most people you see as enemies have a lot of the same concerns and values that you do.

rayiner 4y ago

> Another issue is that Asians while less in number than most other minorities are treated as white by DEI. Asian kids stand to be hurt the most by this. They want asian kids to view themselves as oppressed minorities (e.g. the California ethnic studies curriculum). They make thinly veiled accusations that our cultural traits (keeping our heads down and not complaining) is an effort to uphold white supremacy. But when the chips are down, they’ll categorize Asians as “white.”

hotpotamus 4y ago
I have a really hard time trying to sort through the victim olympics of this statement to determine who wins the gold here. White is a slippery definition though - on that much I suppose I can agree. Ricky Ricardo would never have been allowed to be shown married to a white woman on TV back when his show was airing if Cubans weren't considered white too. Jews sort of come and go from being white as well, but I don't know the factors that determine that.
- goatlover 4y ago
  Apparently there is ongoing debate within the US census as to whether Hispanic should be treated as an ethnic category. Some Hispanics have objected to being placed in the white racial category as opposed to just being called Hispanic. I'm thinking at some point in the future we'll realize that racial categories don't make much sense.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    “Hispanic” isn’t an ethnic category. There are Hispanics of mostly European descent, Hispanics of mainly African descent, etc. It’s a clumsy umbrella term, but is vaguely workable insofar as it gestures in the general direction of a set of nationalities with related cultures. “Asian” is even worse since it refers to a group of people who share neither ethnicity nor culture. It’s a label that is workable only because these unrelated groups share some common experiences in America due to immigration patterns. Even there, though, Indian immigrants and Vietnamese refugees have little in common.

fallingknife 4y ago

> I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. Yeah, I hate the Republicans. But I vote for them now.

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
I guess this is the new single issue voting?
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  It is for me and I really dislike it. First time I've ever voted Republican. I still voted Dem on the federal level but had to think about it.
  - fallingknife 4y ago
    Why do you switch to D on the federal level? They seem like the main people pushing this nonsense through regulations. Because of Trump, I assume? It is pretty hard to vote for him.
    - wonderwonder 4y ago
      I have always voted D. It was a major break for me to vote R at the state level. It took some soul searching. Now the bandaid is off I may vote R on the federal level, it really depends on the candidate. You are right though, I could not vote for Trump. I find myself enjoying divided government now. It optimally prevents new crazy legislation from becoming law and hopefully if something is important both sides will come together and get it done. May be wishful thinking though. I very much dislike both parties at the moment.

bArray 4y ago

> This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. It's worse, you tell somebody they are a victim enough, and they begin to believe it, they even play the role of a victim. You are now starting to see a generation of young minorities that have become what they are told they are. You now have a permanent victim class. > It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anything they are right and you must meekly accept it and bow your head in shame. The result in this will simply be that people avoid interactions with people who pose a risk to them. You already see for example men are very cautious of being alone with women, or teachers alone with students. > You even have companies doing layoffs now intentionally focused on laying off non minorities. Those who choose this policy over merit deserve the rotten companies they are creating. Ultimately you do end up with what you optimize for. > Another issue is that Asians while less in number than most other minorities are treated as white by DEI. White Asians are a problem for the ideology, because they are a minority that statistically does well. They have to treat them as white, otherwise the ideology falls apart. > I worry about my kids if this keeps escalating. You'll probably find they are already being indoctrinated. I have teacher friends working in younger education who admit on social media they purposefully neglect boys when picking students with their hands up, and similar scenarios. Statistically men before this movement were doing worse than their female counterparts, I hate to think where we are after another 10 years time.

goatlover 4y ago
And if you're a minority group like Asians, Hispanics or African immigrants, you get called terms like white-adjacent or internalizing racism when upholding values of hard work and discipline to get ahead, because those are somehow values of a "white supremacist" society.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  I'm still recovering from the Smithsonian's presentation on whiteness (which I assume you are referencing) that listed white negative traits as things like: Planning for the future Delayed Gratification Self Reliance Adherence to the nuclear family Objective, Rational thinking Hard work being the key to success

bobleeswagger 4y ago

> It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anything they are right and you must meekly accept it and bow your head in shame. This happened, exactly as you describe, before my eyes at a well known education startup in Denver 2 years ago. HR representatives publicly humiliated someone for defending protestors on January 6th. Their take was entirely in bounds and amounted to "I think we're talking past one another with the heightened rhetoric, we should have more compassion for other perspectives." They later were forced to publicly apologize for their "short-sighted comments" that "harmed BIPOCs." It was insane. Looking back, that place was a leftist echo chamber like I have never seen, and hope to never see again. Really sucks how much politics is still driving a "data-driven" world.

raxxorraxor 4y ago

It is the toxic rule book of middle management. Treat your underlings differently and they fight each other instead of you. This is cynical and assumes motivation without evidence and it will not always be correct. Perhaps not even in the majority of cases. But I believe DEI proponents often insist on the effects instead of the motivation in the first place. Bad word is a bad word, regardless of the context and such arguments...

taylodl 4y ago

People were saying these exact same things back in the 1980's. It's a right-wing bogeyman and they use it to scare people because it works. Just like it did with you. The thing is racism, at least the racism that actually matters to people's quality of life, is systemic. You're black? Higher mortgage rate for you, even if all other factors are the same. You're Asian? Then you're probably the better student, even if all other factors are the same. The point of DEI is for you to recognize prejudices exist, we're all prejudiced in some way, and what steps are you going to take to prevent your prejudices from clouding your judgement. It's not about minorities getting preferential treatment (outside of the context of reparations which is a highly controversial topic), but making sure minorities get a fair shot. And in case you're wondering, yes, I remember "the good old days" when minorities were targeted for mass layoffs. I'd argue if we weren't such assholes then we wouldn't have most of the problems we have in society but we just can't help ourselves, can we?

wonderwonder 4y ago
"It's a right-wing bogeyman and they use it to scare people because it works. Just like it did with you." Your right, I'm an idiot unable to think for myself. Me and everyone else that believes this. People who believe as you do are the only intelligent ones able to think for themselves. Everything I have experienced related to DEI is not real and part of the massive collective hallucination experienced by anyone that doesn't 100% support it. Being told to "sit in my shame" was good. The VP of DEI responding to Asians expressing fear during the rash of unwarranted attacks on them a year ago by other minorities by telling them white supremacy was to blame was good. Thank you for showing me the light. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
- freejazz 4y ago
  >"Your right, I'm an idiot unable to think for myself. It is bold of you to admit this, but I commend you, even despite your apparent and admitted idiocy.
  - 4y ago

Dig1t 4y ago

There's only one race that we're allowed to openly wish for genocide for: Wired Magazine: "A Glimpse of a Future Without White People" https://www.wired.com/story/mohsin-hamid-the-last-white-man https://www.wired.com/story/mohsin-hamid-the-last-white-man It's the same one we're supposed to discriminate against in the workplace.

Forgeties79 4y ago

>it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. I keep seeing this statement but I never really get an explanation as to how it makes them a "special lesser class" or it's the "civil right movement in reverse." Could you elaborate? >says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anything they are right and you must meekly accept it and bow your head in shame. I would like to see the language that says this.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. No, mandatory DEI statements (statements about how a person has and/or plans to advance the institutions diversity goals through their work) do not treat minorities as lesser or needing “protection”.