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Europium UltraGlow Powder – Green
- NotYourLawyer 4y agoThis is pretty interesting. I did not realize ZnS was no longer state of the art (although I probably should have).
- blamazon 4y agoI don't need 50 pounds of glowing powder... I don't need 50 pounds of glowing powder... I need that money for living...
- gwbrooks 4y agoI'm glad I'm not the only one contemplating poor-but-amazing life choices...
- tomcam 4y agoYou definitely are not
- tag2103 4y agoPerhaps a smaller amount? I know the conflict... I'm checking my play money kitty for exactly this. =)
- knodi123 4y agolol, I bought a dozen bright tritium vials as gifts for some coworkers, but I was going to deliver them in person a couple of months later, so I held on to them until then. It was hard to let them go! Glue one to your deadbolt handle, and you can see whether the door is locked at a glance, from across a dark house! Hang them from your ceiling fan pulls, and no more fumbling around for them in the dark! (for complicated reasons, we don't control ours with the switch) Putting one on your keychain is a no-brainer, but still an awesome idea! And so on...
- 01100011 4y agoI bought something like this: https://patrickadairsupplies.com/products/ultimate-neon-glow-pigment-glow-powder-pack?variant=30892865814570 https://patrickadairsupplies.com/products/ultimate-neon-glow... from another supplier about 8 years ago and still haven't managed to use any of it, beyond just being in awe of how well it glows in response to a UV light.
- genewitch 4y agotake your UV light and a jar of peanut butter into a dark room...
- Rebelgecko 4y agoSame. Even though I have no idea what I'd use it for I still want to buy some
- arethuza 4y agoEuropium is used in Euro notes as an anti-counterfeiting measure: https://www.scoopwhoop.com/world/do-you-know-why-euro-bank-notes-use-the-chemical-europium/ https://www.scoopwhoop.com/world/do-you-know-why-euro-bank-n...
- Yaa101 4y agoInteresting article, but not entirely right. The fibers are not in the note but painted on top of them, neither side of the note is the same fiber wise, also they do get wear with usage. The fibers on the new notes are different, they are more compact and illuminate.
- arethuza 4y agoI must admit I largely picked that article because of the pretty pictures :-)
- Majestic121 4y agoAre there specific restrictions on this ? I get ``` Access denied Error code 1020 You do not have access to unitednuclear.com. The site owner may have set restrictions that prevent you from accessing the site. ``` Connecting from work and mobile
- realYitzi 4y agoUse a VPN
- HansHamster 4y agohttp://web.archive.org/web/20230206165943/https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1079 http://web.archive.org/web/20230206165943/https://unitednucl...
- tmikaeld 4y agoToo bad this can't be bought in Europe, the self-glowing stuff I've tried here (including tape) last only about a year, then it's useless.
- bjornsing 4y ago”UltraGlow® powders are a new generation phosphorescent material with an astonishing glow time as long as 30 hours!”
- kyleblarson 4y agoWhat do you use it for?
- heeen2 4y agohttps://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0114G2SZ8/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza?th=1 https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0114G2SZ8/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp... comments by the seller indicate that it is europium doted strontium aluminate - maybe some chemist can comment if this is the same stuff.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rob74 4y ago> is the brightest, longest lasting, non-toxic & non-radioactive, glow-in-the-dark material known Well that's a disappointment if, misled by the name "United Nuclear", you were hoping for the real stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_dial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_dial)
- RobotToaster 4y agoOr at least tritium, but powdering that could be difficult.
- xsmasher 4y agoHere you go https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=994 https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&p...
- efreak 4y agoGiven there's less than 20kg/10lb production of tritium per year, and a large amount of it seems to go to fusion experiments, how much tritium is there in that vial? https://www.energyencyclopedia.com/en/thermonuclear-fusion/iter/tritium-production https://www.energyencyclopedia.com/en/thermonuclear-fusion/i...
- status200 4y agoThey have a small section for the real stuff: https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_76 https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_...
- akiselev 4y agoUnited Nuclear sells the real stuff like yellowcake for $15/gram [1] so if you've got hydroflouric acid [2], a big gaseous centrifuge, millions of dollars, and a death wish, you can make weapons grade uranium too! PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME [1] https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=105_87&products_id=873 https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&c... [2] https://www.laballey.com/products/hydrofluoric-acid-electronic-grade-semiconductor-grade-49 https://www.laballey.com/products/hydrofluoric-acid-electron...
- tohnjitor 4y agoI wonder if this is what goes into Luminlay. Glow in the dark position markers for guitar and bass. https://luminlay.com https://luminlay.com
- dekhn 4y agoI've used similar stuff based on aluminum strontiate. It's absurdly powerful. I blend it into epoxy and then pour that into things.
- noman-land 4y agoWhat kinds of things?
- dekhn 4y agoMy best is a glow-in-the dark Pacman and ghosts. it's a big black plastic board with shapes cut into it with my CNC. Then I backfilled the shapes with the appropriately tinted epoxy which dried in place. Then I have a UV light pointed at the board. At night, you don't see the board, just some glowing figures suspended. Yellow and green work great, blue/red/purple not so much. I also embed LEDs into epoxy resin that's tinted, which makes the whole thing glow amazingly for very long periods of time. Just random stuff, really anything that comes into mind.
- grugagag 4y agoId love to see a Show HN from your experiments.
- pazimzadeh 4y agoWhat do you do with this?
- jahewson 4y agoUse it as an additive in paint, resin, etc. to make glow-in-the dark stuff.
- kortex 4y agoAdd it to anything you want to make glow-in-the-dark: paints, toys, safety equipment. I know someone who produces small batch silicone adult entertainment devices for sale, and the GITD ones are quite popular.
- hackernewds 4y agoThis worries me as something we find out decades later having cancerous or DNA altering properties
- kortex 4y agoDoped strontium alluminate is not exactly food grade (though it is considered non-toxic), but that's not the orifice these devices are going in. The silicone matrix retains the vast majority of the pigment, which itself is fairly inert. It has virtually no bioavailability and any of the micrograms of it that might slough off during a session will almost certainly be exuded in short order.
- wiz21c 4y agoIf I eat it, what happens ? :-) Joke aside, wikipedia says: > Europium is one of the rarest of the rare-earth elements on Earth Maybe we should regulate its use ?
- kortex 4y agoIt's used in miniscule quantities in glow powder. It's commercial use as a pigment/phosphor in display, lighting, and safety equipment far outweighs its use by hobbyists.
- nimbius 4y agoah united nuclear, purveyors of high quality reagents for the discerning, jittery, sleepless grad student found in only the most prestigious government watch lists and infuriatingly paywalled technical journals since nineteen sixty-one. Thats right United Nuclear, a beguiling reminder to mankind that the entire predicate of the Iraq war could just as easily have been a secret santa gift.
- thebigspacefuck 4y agoCan someone explain what this means?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- q845712 4y agoit's a slightly poetic and roundabout way of saying "This website will sell you some funny toys and some slightly radioactive stuff [like uranium ore, i guess, from previous comments]. "By the way, remember when the US invaded Iraq because we claimed they had stuff which is [allegedly, maybe, i dunno] remarkably similar to what you can order as a gift from this website?" A "secret santa" is a gift giving tradition where you pool a group of people together and each person gets the name of someone and buys them a Christmas gift (generally within some price range) but they don't know who bought them the gift. So it's an opportunity to buy joke-gifts for someone you aren't particularly close to, if you happen to draw their name.
- rdl 4y agohttps://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=873 https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&p... Not just a dessert (topping), but also a floor wax (well, not really, but pretense for Iraq War) (https://spyscape.com/article/saddam-husseins-fake-uranium https://spyscape.com/article/saddam-husseins-fake-uranium)
- meremortals 4y agoThis site (United Nuclear) is run by Bob Lazar https://search.brave.com/search?q=bob+lazar+united+nuclear https://search.brave.com/search?q=bob+lazar+united+nuclear
- Robotbeat 4y agoI wouldn’t expect any less. This is what the internet was made for!
- notacoward 4y agoStrontium aluminate doped with europium has been the standard in persistent phosphorescence for a while. A large part of the reason I got into epoxy resin craft was to incorporate it in glowing elements, so I have a lot of such items. Some last all night. Some - especially reds and purples - are faint and barely last an hour. More recently, I've noticed dysprosium being added to the mix as well, though TBH I've never noticed any difference in brightness or duration compared to stuff I could get ten years ago. The one thing I'd highlight (heh) for anyone trying to use this stuff themselves is: be aware of its density. I have yet to find a version that disperses evenly in resin; it tends to sink instead. Might disperse better in glass, but I know little about that craft so maybe it would be unusable for other (thermal?) reasons. If it tends to sink or float in any medium, such as paint, color/glow will be uneven. There are ways to deal with this issue, but they tend to involve extra steps. For example, with resin you can pour many thin layers, but if you want to avoid visible strata you have to go even further with non-planar surfaces and thickeners and such. It's ton of fun, but also a bit of work sometimes.
- ridgeguy 4y agoMight it suspend better/longer if the particle size were smaller? I've ordered some, will try a little comminution to get fine dust. At some point, viscosity should predominate over settling.
- notacoward 4y agoIn my direct experience, grain size hasn't made much difference. Also, I use several kinds of very fine dusts/powders in my resin work and I've come to loathe the whole category. They go everywhere at the slightest puff of air, stick to equipment and tools, etc. I already wear a mask, but with chemical (NIOSH magenta or olive) rather than particulate cartridges, so there's that too. Of course YMMV. Perhaps also relevant is that I tend to work mostly with low-viscosity resins because it's easier wrt bubbles and edge creep, but I've had the settling problem even with higher-viscosity formulations. Maybe some day I'll hit on a combination of materials and techniques that solves the problem. Just hasn't happened yet. Good luck!
- 4y ago
- braingenious 4y agoI _LOVE_ United Nuclear. They have made many chemistry and physics classes so much fun. Here’s a bit of free advice though: Do not tell a police officer that you have thermite on you. Furthermore, do not explain what thermite is if they don’t know what it is. It is a recipe for a really long day.
- lief79 4y agoThat is begging for a story, although I'm guessing the summary might be more entertaining.
- aliqot 4y agoI think United Nuclear was Bob Lazaar's company edit: yep https://www.justice.gov/civil/cpb/case/us-v-united-nuclear-scientific-supplies-et-al-0 https://www.justice.gov/civil/cpb/case/us-v-united-nuclear-s...
- cactusplant7374 4y agoDoes he still own it? I would never buy something from a con artist like Lazaar.
- efreak 4y agoWhat does it mean to place a company on probation? I tried looking it up, but can't get away from results about employee probation...ddg and Google both are ignoring my -employee and various other negations to filter the results...
- irq 4y agoSounds like an interesting story, care to share it? :)
- braingenious 4y agoBack in the early 2000s me and a few friends were playing with thermite in a parking lot, igniting tiny piles of it and watching it burn into the asphalt. Somebody across the street called the police and all of a sudden two cop cars and a fire truck showed up. They saw we were just kids and pretty much just told us to fuck off, which I would have, except I had just put down a sizable pile of thermite on the ground. Being both a genius(moron) and civic-minded, I asked if I could clean up my pile of thermite first so as to avoid any danger to others. Then I was asked what that is, so I happily told them about how it creates extremely hot iron slag that can melt through lots of things. And then me and my friends were interrogated about being bomb-makers, terrorists, or if we were planning on doing another Columbine. They called in the local FBI (who thankfully knew what we were talking about and didn’t really give a shit), we got a long speech about the PATRIOT act, and at the end they said we’re all going on “a list” Ruined my entire evening and I never got to ignite the big pile :(
- AdamH12113 4y agoI believe this is the same stuff that makes up Stuart Semple's Lit glow powder and other such glow-in-the-dark pigments. It's a mix of europium and dysprosium. IIRC what makes it last so long is the addition of trap states for the electrons, where instead of quickly re-emitting absorbed photons they can give up a little bit of energy to remain in the trap state, and are later bumped back out of that state by random thermal fluctuations. I tried it out on some cardboard and it's almost as impressive as the marketing makes it sounds. I can hold a cheap LED headlamp next to it and wave it over the surface, and it leaves a bright green streak behind that glows visibly for many hours afterward. It doesn't stay bright for very long (I suspect it's an exponential decay), but for such a short exposure I wouldn't expect it to. The blue version is less impressive because you need sunlight or a proper UV light source to charge it up, but it does work.
- aliqot 4y agoDoesn't Noodlers also use this?
- dekhn 4y agoBy trap states do you mean "forbidden transitions" (phosphorescence lasts longer than fluorescence because the electrons have to go through a very low probability mechanism).
- AdamH12113 4y agoI honestly don't know the details; I got this from a vaguely-remembered YouTube video. From some quick Googling what you're saying sounds right.
- kortex 4y agoUnited Nuclear is quite the nostalgia bomb. My first experience with them was in 2008, buying a chunk of uranium ore to trigger a geiger counter to use as a true random number generator. I'd say "where else can you just buy a chunk of uranium ore" but... [1]. Of course at the time it wasn't something you could buy on amazon. 1 - https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- pprotas 4y agoI want to eat it
- pengaru 4y agoWhen you have a bottle full of this stuff, is the interior powder getting charged by photons as well via propagation? Or is it only the directly light-visible surface that gets charged and is glowing? If the former, does having a larger interior volume of powder increase the glow duration, behaving as a sort of rechargeable glow battery? Or does it just generate heat or more brightness while lasting the same duration?
- dekhn 4y agoonly the surface of a bottle of this kind will emit photons. The emission frequency and intensity is not enough to really make this propagate light significantly. Instead, you would suspend a tiny amount of this in a volume of transparent resin.
- at_a_remove 4y agoBeing kind of a maniac for glow in the dark stuff, this isn't quite true. I've filled up flask bottles with glow gravel of this variety and, after a "charge," poured it out -- the interior gravel did indeed get charged. I think you would need much more thickness than a centimeter or two for the interiors not to get charged up. (Yes, I had a bunch of bottles filled up and arranged on a rope so they would glow softly during the night because I'm weird like that)
- pengaru 4y agoSince you seem to have done some experiments, what effect does increasing the bottle size have on the glow? Duration or brightness changed? No visible effect?
- at_a_remove 4y agoYou max out pretty fast. Most people don't understand the incredibly wide (over so many orders of magnitude) ranges our eyes (and ears) function over. Once you're in the dark, the glow is quite visible but it wouldn't have been very notable before. And so the absorb-release cycle can penetrate rather rapidly. If I had to guess, with the gravel, that would die off at maybe a few centimeters of depth. Essentially, you're getting just surface area at a given brightness, despite the interior gravel getting charged. With the zinc sulfides, they really did take much longer to hit their max charge, although I never measured it.
- Hgfyrnsjdhfh 4y agoAnyone knows how this relates to SuperLuminova used in watches? There is always much discussion in watch forums regarding how good the lume is in different watches, and this looks like a nice contender.
- julienreszka 4y agoSo that's what the skin of CIA agents is made of
- poopsmithe 4y agoThere is some good humor on this site. :) Depending on the answer given to the quiz on the bottom of the Chemistry Experiments page, visitors are directed to one of Thomas The Tank Engine, Disney, or the actual safety page. https://unitednuclear.com/chem_exper.htm https://unitednuclear.com/chem_exper.htm
- abotsis 4y agoWait, what: 8 ounces ( $70.00 ) (1lbs) 16 ounce ( $130.00 ) (1.5lbs)
- Rebelgecko 4y agoMaybe weight of the contents of the containers vs overall weight?
- pxeger1 4y ago0.5lbs is a lot of packaging
- riknos314 4y agoLikely contents weight vs (shipping weight).
- jakedata 4y agoI wonder if the radium dial paint in my Baby Ben clock would emit enough energy to activate the Europium? The original phosphor has degraded to the point where it doesn't glow but it certainly sets off my Geiger counter.
- at_a_remove 4y agoThis is far better than the zinc sulfide and friends of my childhood. First off, total glow is stronger. Second, the glow is much longer, almost an order of magnitude to my untrained eye. Third, you can get a lot more variations on color if you're willing to sacrifice glow time. The zinc sulfide of my youth came in green (typically) and red (very rarely) and, if it was paint, smelled bad.
- zamadatix 4y agoSounds like strontium aluminate glow powder (that's where the europium doping would come into play) with a heavy marketing spin. I've got some of that and it's definitely better than the old zinc sulfide glow in the dark stuff most of us grew up with but I'm not sure it ended up being worth buying just to see what the difference was. You can get it for a fair bit cheaper than this site but maybe the novelty of it coming in a box labeled "United Nuclear" is worth it or maybe they do a particularly good job at synthesizing it compared to everyone else. In a similar vein I also went and got a ton of the most saturated pigments I could find after seeing some videos about it. To be honest most colors were disappointing. Definitely more saturated than even a good HDR TV or monitor but not impressively so. It might have been more fun in the days where having a monitor that properly covered sRGB accurately was uncommon but now we're used to phones with good dp3 or wider gamuts stretching things out because it looks more vivid and the absolute difference between that and the limit of vision is less of a leap. The ultra deep non-reflective blacks are as fun as advertised though. They made for less an "oh, it's a really dark object" experience and more "a piece of my living room is missing and turned into an empty hole" feeling. Edit: While I'm throwing out chemistry related party trick items I've always been a fan of element cubes and have grown quite the collection now. The most fun of them all is the tungsten block which is dense enough to catch you by surprise. Be careful not to get a "tungsten alloy" one, it eats away at the density. It's also great to just toss around/fidget with... albeit one of the tungsten spheres might be better for your desk and toes.
- dekhn 4y agoIf you want that kind of effect, LEDs or lasers are your best bet. The colors are intensely saturated, and absurdly bright (different color-specific star LEDs on PCBs, mounted on aluminum heatsink, run near the current limit for the LED).
- bragr 4y agoLEDs have a very poor spectral range, and mixing 3 distinct colors (RBG) is not the same as real full spectrum color. It's a good approximation which is why we use it, but an approximation none then less.
- ultrasounder 4y agohttps://unitednuclear.com/chem_exper.htm https://unitednuclear.com/chem_exper.htm. Cracked me up. Now i am going to setup a dexters lab in my garage and blow things up with my 14 year old. Right now he hates chemistry but this should motivate him.
- throwaway743 4y agoIsn't this Bob Lazar's company?
- swayvil 4y agoI've used Strontium Aluminate glow powder (mixed with watergel, resin). It's potent stuff. I think this europium stuff is that.
- KaiserPro 4y agoIf you are in the UK and want glow in the dark pigment suitable for the home environment, then https://culturehustle.com/collections/powders/products/lit-pack-4-x-50g https://culturehustle.com/collections/powders/products/lit-p... is a good start. Its not quite as bright as superluminova (the stuff thats in watches) but its cheap, easy to use and is long enough lasting to be good enough.
- deegles 4y agothe description says you can mix it with glaze... do they mean ceramic glaze? would the glow in the dark properties survive firing in a kiln?
- syspec 4y agoThat site just blew my mind, the amount of things you can buy there is unreal. Element samples (nearly the whole periodic table!), ammonium nitrate: https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=89 https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=89 Yellow cake: https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=105_87&products_id=873 https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&c...
- triplesec 4y agoThis stuff's been around a while. I remmeber a decade back, a happy friendly idiosyncratic engineer in a warehouse in SF I know very well, who showed me gleefully all the objects he had cvered in Europium powder. The glow was a little underwhelming, but it was interesting. also, being concerned about possible toxicity, not really knowing my lanthanide chemistry, I did keep my distance, however.
- xsmasher 4y agoThis is wonderful. The whole site reminds me of "Edmund Scientific," a catalog and retail store that dominated my thoughts and dreams as a child.
- flir 4y agoGiant fresnel lens? You were not alone.
- dalke 4y agoBack in 1995, a friend of mine and some of her friends at the University of Michigan had fun with "Random Destructive Acts via Focused Solar Radiation" using one of those lenses. - https://bclee.net/lens.html https://bclee.net/lens.html . No images, much less video, to go along with the 1995 story, as you might expect from a time when most people had film cameras and dial-up. It hit Slashdot 19 years ago, at https://slashdot.org/story/04/05/21/1936210/things-you-can-do-with-a-giant-fresnel-lens https://slashdot.org/story/04/05/21/1936210/things-you-can-d... . Reading mention of someone I knew make the world seem a bit smaller. Recalling this, and re-reading the account, brings bittersweet memories now as she passed some 10 years ago.
- robotguy 4y agoIf you liked Edmund Scientific, you might check out American Science and Surplus: https://www.sciplus.com/ https://www.sciplus.com/
- lokar 4y agoHow is 1oz 0.25 lb?
- senkaransen1 4y agoHave go game me ok
- mmaunder 4y agoIn case the vendor is here. I’m guessing cart abandonment numbers are pretty bad. You’re blanking the entire order form when a user checks the box for different billing address. Chrome on iPhone.
- nanomonkey 4y agoHas anyone used this to paint their house? I'm wondering if small stars painted on the southern portion of my house would glow nicely at night.
- nkurz 4y agoWe used a lower quality commercial glow-in-the-dark paint when we repainted our aluminum storms. These are the aluminum surrounds that hold storm windows in place. They are white in daylight, and glow lightly green for the first half of the night. We're happy with the results, although a brighter effect would be better. I'd say go for it!
- TomMasz 4y agoIs having an order from United Nuclear on your credit card something that might get you flagged as a potential terrorist?
- UnitedNuclear 4y agoHey all, we wanted to thank you all for the support. Orders have been flooding in for our Europium UltraGreen Glow Powder, it's hard to keep up! We've tried nearly every glow powder on the market and Europium UltraGlow is the only one deserving of the United Nuclear name. A few facts about Glow Powder: All 2nd generation glow powders will use a Strontium Aluminate base. Rare earth metals are added as doping agents to really make the glow pop. Europium and Dysprosium are common for greens & blues. Some pigments (White and Orange) use Molybdenum. Companies that specialize in Zinc Sulfide scintillators will use the periodic table as their playground, ranging from Lutetium to Yttrium. These metals are absolutely necessary for competitive phosphorescent compounds. First generation glow powder uses Zinc Sulfide. These compounds don't hold a candle to Strontium Aluminate. Some colors such as Red & Pink are only available in Zinc Sulfide since we haven't mastered the SrAl chemistry of those wavelengths yet. The race is on for anyone who can produce a nice Crimson Red that lasts for more than 15 minutes. Our glow powder will be viewable for up to 48 hours in perfect 'center of a coal mine' conditions. In the real world, it's viewable for up to 10-12 hours (depending on the pigment). Ambient light is the enemy as this will detract your ability to perceive the glow. This is why we always recommend that you start small to make sure that your imagination isn't selling you on an idea that isn't physically possible. I often tell our customers "Its called glow in the dark powder for a reason, not glow in the light". You can mix glow powder with nearly anything so long as it dries crystal clear. Our customers have used everything including acrylic, epoxy, casting resin, countertop sealer, urethane, lacquer, oil-based paints, acrylic based paints, latex paints, fabric glue, nail polish, fiberglass resin, superglue, and so on. Glow powder is typically rated for 600C or higher (ask your supplier for exact info) so we've seen it used in glass furnaces as well. What you CAN'T do is dissolve glow powder as it must retain its crystalline shape in order to actually glow. It's recommended that you stay away from solvents & paint thinners. What ratio gives the best glow performance? Simple: the ratio that allows the most amount of glow powder per unit area. Put differently, people who make glowing Gun Sights and Fishing Lures will want to make a glow paste that contains as much glow powder as their mixture will physically fit. There does exist a saturation point where added layers do not increase glow performance, so we always recommend that you conduct small scale experimentation to see where that point exists. Most of all: Have fun! Glow powder is incredibly engaging and fun to work with. We have over 15 years of experience with the stuff and its always been one of our most popular items. If you're not sure if this will work with your project feel free to reach out to us, we're more than willing to help. Some of our favorite phone calls have started with "I'm not sure if you're the right guys to talk to about this but I have a crazy idea..." Regards, Zack