5 ms·

>It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of

by yesco 4y ago

>It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of the population. I certainly won't deny that trans people go through a lot, but stuff like this is honestly getting hard to take seriously. It's commonly repeated but going on about their "existence" itself being denied just sounds over dramatic. I don't think trans people are any worse off than other marginalized groups but for some reason, I'm finding they receive the fiercest protections. In fact, within my own friend group, I'm pretty sure a trans joke would have far more immediate social implications now than even a joke about the holocaust. It's so over the top at this point my empathy is diminishing. > Would it have been OK to make a joke about 9/11 victims while they were still digging people out of the wreckage? What if that joke was light-hearted, or the comedian was just making fun of people who tell those jokes? It would have been poor taste but I don't think you would have received any bans from social medial for making one, that's a pretty new phenomenon.

mynameisvlad 4y ago
What even is this argument? “Your life admittedly sucks but I think you blow it out of proportion so I can’t feel empathy for you”
- yesco 4y ago
  No, it's just that whenever they seem to be brought up in discussion aggressive "supporters" come out of the woodwork, over dramatically act like the world is ending over the smallest things and misrepresent my arguments with the most bad faith interpretation on purpose. Like you are doing now. It's hard for me to empathize with a group that increasingly looks less like a marginalized group, and more like some fanatical religion that somehow has gained an almost ridiculous amount of influence over every major institution and social media platform. And I say this as someone who was originally 100% on board. A trans person could insult my identity, race and sexuality without any consequences whatsoever, but the reverse has the potential of permanently ending my social life and livelihood. Of course as the magnitude of this disparity keeps increasing, my empathy, and sympathy would decrease along with it. If anything, I'm actually starting to become afraid of trans people, not because of their transition, but due to their incredible authority.
  - rittle 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - yesco 4y ago
      You can't refute anything I've said so you've pivoted to ad-hominems ;)
      - mynameisvlad 4y ago
        I’m not bothering to because you made your stance more than clear enough. I’d be willing to engage with someone coming in with good intent but your instant downward spiral into right wing rhetoric makes it obvious you aren’t and won’t actually listen to anything that goes against the narrative. In short, I already know it’s not worth my time.
  - arp242 4y ago
    To provide some examples: Eddie Izard has been on mainstream on British TV for decades, often (though not always) presenting as a woman. The first British TV programme about transsexuals – as it was called back then – dates from 1979 (A Change of Sex) and was, as I understand it, received overwhelmingly positively. In 2001 Big Brother had a transsexual candidate in the Netherlands, etc. No doubt there is discrimination, and there was in the past as well, and I don't want to minimize this, but the idea that the general public (i.e. most people) fundamentally objects to the very idea of trans people existing (and wants to "genocide" them, as is sometimes also claimed) does not seem to bear out.
crote 4y ago
Maybe you should look up Trump's speech from a couple of days ago. He argued that transitioning at any age should be banned, and that gender-affirming healthcare should be banned by all federal agencies. Or maybe look at the law Arkansas tried to pass, where any public performance whatsoever by a transgender person would be considered an "adult performance", because they would be wearing clothes which are not traditionally associated with their assigned gender at birth. That kind of thought is becoming increasingly common among right-wing American politicians, and I do not know of any other way to describe it than trying to deny the existence of trans people. I really wish this was all just an exaggeration, but unfortunately it really is this bad.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  Those sound like better political targets then than artists (comedians).
freejazz 4y ago
[flagged]
- yesco 4y ago
  I didn't say legal protections, I meant it in the broad sense, like institutional authority. And by fiercest, I mean the crusading attitude that would deliberately misinterpret what I said and immediately jump to calling me "incredibly ignorant" before moving goal posts.
  - freejazz 4y ago
    [flagged]

by yesco 4y ago

mynameisvlad 4y ago

What even is this argument? “Your life admittedly sucks but I think you blow it out of proportion so I can’t feel empathy for you”

yesco 4y ago
No, it's just that whenever they seem to be brought up in discussion aggressive "supporters" come out of the woodwork, over dramatically act like the world is ending over the smallest things and misrepresent my arguments with the most bad faith interpretation on purpose. Like you are doing now. It's hard for me to empathize with a group that increasingly looks less like a marginalized group, and more like some fanatical religion that somehow has gained an almost ridiculous amount of influence over every major institution and social media platform. And I say this as someone who was originally 100% on board. A trans person could insult my identity, race and sexuality without any consequences whatsoever, but the reverse has the potential of permanently ending my social life and livelihood. Of course as the magnitude of this disparity keeps increasing, my empathy, and sympathy would decrease along with it. If anything, I'm actually starting to become afraid of trans people, not because of their transition, but due to their incredible authority.
- rittle 4y ago
  [flagged]
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - yesco 4y ago
    You can't refute anything I've said so you've pivoted to ad-hominems ;)
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      I’m not bothering to because you made your stance more than clear enough. I’d be willing to engage with someone coming in with good intent but your instant downward spiral into right wing rhetoric makes it obvious you aren’t and won’t actually listen to anything that goes against the narrative. In short, I already know it’s not worth my time.
- arp242 4y ago
  To provide some examples: Eddie Izard has been on mainstream on British TV for decades, often (though not always) presenting as a woman. The first British TV programme about transsexuals – as it was called back then – dates from 1979 (A Change of Sex) and was, as I understand it, received overwhelmingly positively. In 2001 Big Brother had a transsexual candidate in the Netherlands, etc. No doubt there is discrimination, and there was in the past as well, and I don't want to minimize this, but the idea that the general public (i.e. most people) fundamentally objects to the very idea of trans people existing (and wants to "genocide" them, as is sometimes also claimed) does not seem to bear out.

crote 4y ago

Maybe you should look up Trump's speech from a couple of days ago. He argued that transitioning at any age should be banned, and that gender-affirming healthcare should be banned by all federal agencies. Or maybe look at the law Arkansas tried to pass, where any public performance whatsoever by a transgender person would be considered an "adult performance", because they would be wearing clothes which are not traditionally associated with their assigned gender at birth. That kind of thought is becoming increasingly common among right-wing American politicians, and I do not know of any other way to describe it than trying to deny the existence of trans people. I really wish this was all just an exaggeration, but unfortunately it really is this bad.

mancerayder 4y ago
Those sound like better political targets then than artists (comedians).

freejazz 4y ago

[flagged]

yesco 4y ago
I didn't say legal protections, I meant it in the broad sense, like institutional authority. And by fiercest, I mean the crusading attitude that would deliberately misinterpret what I said and immediately jump to calling me "incredibly ignorant" before moving goal posts.
- freejazz 4y ago
  [flagged]