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I've just become completely lethargic lately. And there's some sort of mental block stopping me from working. It's kinda insane because I can work on other stuf

I've just become completely lethargic lately. And there's some sort of mental block stopping me from working. It's kinda insane because I can work on other stuff, but as soon as there's a simple task for my employer my mind just wanders off. And when I really try to focus I just go blank in my head. Can't explain shit. I'm trying to slowly get back on the pony just because I'm ashamed of all the salary I've collected for what little work I've been able to do. Haven't done therapy lately but one thing that comes to mind is how futile everything is. I know it's a cliché but I'm almost 40 so this isn't your regular teenage angst "nothing matters", I thought I was past that. It might be rooted in the fact that I don't have kids, I haven't found purpose yet. But the thoughts that come to mind is that this could all end tomorrow and wtf are we working for when we could be living?

BxGyw2 4y ago
Every time I've felt like this it's been time for a change of responsibilities. Are you stagnant?
- INTPenis 4y ago
  That's a really good point, yes. More than a decade with the same employer. But at the same time that employer provides such job security that it allows me to travel the world (which I just started) and still work. So that's kinda keeping me there. That is also what is motivating me to get back on track because I have a goal now, to travel, and my job is financing that, and the freedom my employer provides is making it possible. But yeah I have been dabbling in the job market to kickstart my motivation again. But it has to be a remote-only job of course.
  - BxGyw2 4y ago
    It's tough hey - I'm in the exact situation you're in right now - got my resume open on the other screen. I think it's important to always remember (jobs, relationships, any situation really) that although it can be hard to see outside your own situation the world is inconceivably large and numerically it's super unlikely that you can't find a day job equal or better than the one you're in. Good luck with the hunt dude
  - jwmoz 4y ago
    A decade at the same place sounds soul destroying. Try something different.
    - wnolens 4y ago
      Yes I like a 4-5y rule. Highschool, college, jobs.. Enough time to really transform yourself, then move on.
  - kubanczyk 4y ago
    > I have a goal now, to travel, and my job is financing that Are you trying to fool your own emotions that way? That part of your brain is not that clueless not to recognize that the daily life did not change, only labels got rearranged. My hypothesis is that work is more important to you than travel. And my second hypothesis is that your goal was de facto (at the time you wrote the top post) to maintain stability, i.e. to change nothing about your job.
shrimpx 4y ago
Sounds like burnout. Sticking around because you feel guilty you've been unproductive sounds like prolonging the problem. I'm not an expert, this isn't advice.
deleted 4y ago
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John23832 4y ago
You're burnt out. We've all been there. Focus on yourself to get better. As far as work, break tasks down AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE. Do a portion and pat yourself on the back. You'll be able to build up from there. Part of burnout is seeing a wall of work and your body/mind having an adverse reaction to it. You need smaller portions to get back on the horse.
- mlatu 4y ago
  oh yeah, keep feeding the grinder, never stop feeding the grinder or else.
  - John23832 4y ago
    We all need to be able to make a living, whether it's software engineering, wood working, or day dreaming (if you can get paid for that). In general life is about getting big things done. Whether it's raising a kid, bagging 20 tons of groceries, wiring a house, or shipping 2M lines of code. The point being made is how to do that sustainably. Don't be a curmudgeon.
    - shanebellone 4y ago
      "The point being made is how to do that sustainably." This is something I've battled with my whole life. By default, I have two switch positions -- on and off. When I flip a switch to the on position, it'll eventually flip back to the off position. In my experience, balance is key. Make consistent progress and maintain interest without becoming obsessed or otherwise overly invested. This is easier said than done.
    - dangwhy 4y ago
      > In general life is about getting big things done. Based on your responses, I envy your clarity and general attitude towards life. You seem to have purpose and drive that comes from that purpose. I've never found that clarity of "life is about X". Even if i did, it only last a while and then i was back to square one. You are experiencing what OP is experiencing, complete attachment to your beliefs, in your case its very productive. kudos.
conductr 4y ago
I've had this happen more often than burnout. For me, it's simple lack of engagement. Even if you never gave much, when you really stop giving a shit, it becomes difficult to give even a bare minimum. It's usually coupled with a feeling that anything else you do with your time is more important than work. Like anything. I recall skipping important meetings to go outside and pick up dog poo from the lawn. Also for me, it's usually solved by finding a new job/challenge.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  That looks like a very effective defense mechanism for recovering from burnout. Maybe the reason you didn't noticed it as burnout is that you recovered while it was still mild.
  - conductr 4y ago
    Maybe but I don't think so. In my mind, burnout requires some point of burn. In my experience, these jobs are just cush and have a nice paycheck but lack any type of burn. I usually get paid well to do something I feel is trivial but they see value in it. The job doesn't actually challenge me intellectually and maybe it was fine when I liked the people or was building out the process but then over time it's not enough to keep my mind from wondering (and sometimes the people change, so my engagement tanks because of that). I've had burnout too (I think). It's stressful as fuck. What I described above is not, because I don't care at all. My burnout situations have crashed hard and usually bleed into my personal life more so.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  Huh, yes. I remember in my house at uni the washing up was never done more than when we should've all been revising.
mlatu 4y ago
even a wife and two kids cant save you from those thoughts.
suranyami 4y ago
> It might be rooted in the fact that I don't have kids As a parent: nope, it's definitely not that. Yes, having children is a rich and beautiful experience. It's also a ruthless grind. So, if you think you're feeling lethargic and it's all a bit futile, imagine doing everything you do now, but also arguing with a smaller, more annoying version of yourself for a couple of decades while sleep deprived, and with 1/4 of the disposable income you have now. For me, it's a battle between "if I do something, someone's just gonna fuck it up anyway" and "I used to love this. I can still get excited by this, right?" I constantly find myself in a state of paralysis where I know what to do, I know how to do it, I even know how to do it quickly so it can be over and done, but I still just don't want to START anything. I suspect it's a result of a decade or so of working in startups with borderline psychotic egomaniacs. For instance, one CEO would periodically grab me, walk me a few blocks away from the office and proceed to scream in my face for 20 minutes on the sidewalk. There are many, many other examples, but honestly, it's all too familiar and boring to recount. At times I feel it may be akin to PTSD. The psych I saw suspected it may well be, but unfortunately there are many more needy patients being treated for far worse PTSD (e.g. Afghanistan, Iraq, etc). Apparently, there's a term for this "inability to do stuff": executive dysfunction. That's about as much as I know. One of the other unsettling things that has recently manifested itself has been stuttering. I've never stuttered and always prided myself on being a persuasive and confident speaker. But since the above horror-show I've often found myself unable to string sentences together, getting tongue-tied, long pauses. Maybe it's just age, but it seems correlated time-wise. Yes, I know, correlation is not causation.
- leftbit 4y ago
  Sounds familiar, especially the stuttering. Not really sure what's going on with me, but I found that sitting down for about 10 minutes and drinking one or two glasses of water alleviates the symptoms. Might be I just need the break, might be I'm stuttering because I've been dehydrated.
- heleninboodler 4y ago
  If INTPenis hears anything I hope it's that not having kids isn't the root of this problem. I have kids and it's wonderful, but I too feel all the same lethargy and lack of purpose interspersed with bouts of helping kids with their homework and relentlessly getting their grumpy asses to school at ungodly hours every day and generally trying hard not to fuck them up. If you're already in a shitty situation, having kids definitely does not fix it. If you find it inexplicably hard to make it to your 9am standup, try making it your responsibility to get two other humans out of bed and ready for school at 6:35 every day and then make it to your 9am standup.
user_named 4y ago
Sounds like burnout. But also, tried Vitamin B Complex. I was in a similar state, helped instantly.
- MonkeyClub 4y ago
  +1 on B vitamins, and also iron per case. Daily walks, hydration (water, not beverages), and good sleep patterns, are also fundamental wellbeing factors. Personally, I’ve both strolled out of burnout with such combinations, and crawled into burnout without them. It’s amazing how easily we neglect our most basic needs, and how quickly this backlashes.
timellis-smith 4y ago
As an allegory. I've on occasion been in very cold water (cutting ropes from propellors of boats and stand-up paddle boarding). While my core body temperature is still below normal, I've found myself incapable of going back into the cold water, like my body physically refuses. The mind works to protect itself, and perhaps that's what its doing with regards to work - trying to protect you from further damaging yourself due to burn-out.
- abyssin 4y ago
  I see it as emotions that, despite being ignored by a more rational part of the mind, persist and keep functionning like they should. Emotions provide information about what's good for us. It isn't always perfect information and it makes sense to manage them rationally. But at some point, reason cannot function in a void. In my experience, once I've left a situation where I wasn't aware that I didn't feel good, it becomes very obvious I didn't feel good, to the point that going back into that situation sounds like a laughable idea.
  - totetsu 4y ago
    This is what "ADHD" kind of feels like, but the emotions react to everything, even when the metaphorical water isn't very cold at all.
    - abyssin 4y ago
      Interesting that you're mentioning ADHD, I've spent quite some time lately researching on this topic. I was able to try methylphenidate recently and an unexpected effect it had on me was that I noticed this lingering anxiety had disappeared, something I usually feel around the heart, but no longer notice. Unfortunately methylphenidate has its drawbacks, and to go back to the main conversation I can imagine how it could trigger psychosis for some individuals.
deleted 4y ago
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shafyy 4y ago
Could it be that your job just bores you and you need to do something else?
danuker 4y ago
> wtf are we working for when we could be living? I try to find a balance. I computed based on diminishing returns of income wrt. life expectancy (possibly with a vast error) that the optimal amount I should be working is 2h/d (if I never retire). Going over that means I'll be able to retire, and going too much (>4h/day) means my life is prolonged increasingly just for work. So only do this if you are crazy about work. Going below means I'll have to make some sacrifices. I am thankful for my employer accepting such terms (a variable number of few hours).
- moffkalast 4y ago
  Interesting, I've also found 4h/day to be the a good average. Key word there is average though, some days it feels more like doing 2h or none, other days with a (rare) interesting problem it can spiral to like 10h too. The typical full time job fixed work hours are just so too damn rigid.
martopix 4y ago
This is not quite the same as a full breakdown, it sounds more like a burnout. Which is still important and a lot of people will relate with, including myself. Part of it (i.e. as long as it doesn't affect your life experience in a disproportionate way) is also very normal -- we all wander what's the meaning of our life. Searching around for burnout, including on this website, might give you some relatable stuff to read. It's possible that solving it might require you taking a long break (if you can), or reevaluate your life and change careers. These are things that take courage however, and a lot of people just keep going because they hate it, but it's still their comfort zone. Give yourself time to mature a decision, might be a few years, even.
k3liutZu 4y ago
This sounds like burnout.
jack_pp 4y ago
I've gone through that at the start of the pandemic. In hindsight it might've been my subconscious telling me that I should do something else. I had the financial means to work on stuff that I enjoyed and I didn't have to rely on employment but for.. reasons I didn't do those things. So I suggest taking a break from distractions and thinking really hard about your long term goals and how to achieve them. You might feel lethargic and not motivated precisely because you don't have a good purpose for your life. The standard "just go to work, save money, start a family" life course is not for everybody. I'm not saying you shouldn't start a family but if you have the financial means, creativity and skill to build a business of your own I believe your family life will be much better, you will have more time to spend with your kids if you have a stable source of income that doesn't require you to work 40 hours a week for and which is at risk of going away because of office politics or whatever. If I don't feel I have control over my own life I feel exactly like you described but.. that might just be me. Regarding your existential dread.. my philosophy as someone who is close to Ukraine and feared that the war would spill into my country, is that while it may all end tomorrow for some reason or another.. that possibility is not worth thinking about. If I really knew for certain I would die in 2 years then I'd become totally hedonistic, I'd spend all my resources to just have the most fun possible but we don't know that. Humanity has gone through worse periods than we're facing right now but it got through them so chances are we'll get through it too so why not plan for the future? I've been hedonistic for the past 7 years, it gets old. If you haven't lived your life fully until now and just dread that you've been working your ass off, not going out, not meeting people, not taking drugs or whatever other hedonistic activity you wish you had gone through then maybe go do that, get it out of your system but eventually you'll want to settle down, plan for the future and even though it's scary and your mind will throw a lot of roadblocks I feel you still have to do it to truly be fulfilled.
poulpy123 4y ago
Those are symptoms of depression
otikik 4y ago
Hey, sorry you are going through that. > I know it's a cliché but I'm almost 40 so this isn't your regular teenage angst "nothing matters", I thought I was past that. Teenage angst has a time. Unfortunately Midlife Crisis also has a time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlife_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlife_crisis It could be what you are going through, at least partially. I went through it recently - coupled with the pandemic and unfortunate family problems, I ended up depressed. I reached out for help. Therapy took the blunt out of it. Didn't fix everything, but I am functional. I get "you are a good parent" and "you are a good boss" from time to time. Brightens my day. If therapy isn't for you, try the basics: exercise, diet, hobbies, family, friends. Anything that improves your mood will help you look at life with a more positive attitude. Be gradual with changes and expect short-term setbacks - what matters is improving in the medium-long term. Good luck!
- otikik 4y ago
  Oh I forgot sleep on the basics. Very important for mood. Get enough hours. You can be sleep-deprived and not know it.
idiocrat 4y ago
Please tell me if you find a cure or a way out. I have tried several types of supplements and could fix some of long-lasting energy problems.
- INTPenis 4y ago
  I don't think it is an energy problem either. I can find energy for other things, just not my employment. I think people were right that I am stagnating and I feel the need for new challenges. The catch 22 is that my job is so amazing that it gives me the newfound (newly realized) freedom to see the world while working. So I either stay, find some motivation to avoid the shame of not working, and keep travelling to fulfill my work/life balance. Or I find a new job with new motivation where I'll be putting in more hours, more commitment and perhaps have less time for travel. But regarding the energy, I take daily supplements of vitamin D and all the B vitamins, and I do feel that it does help.
  - edeion 4y ago
    With respect to supplements... I can relate to what you describe and I tend to think it's not just based on chemistry. That being said, on different occasions, I felt a dramatic boost when taking magnesium + zinc + B cocktail. I guess it means I was deficient in those. Who know is you aren't...
peepee1982 4y ago
Kids keep you moving to some extent. But if you're lethargic already, kids will probably make it much, much worse and possibly throw you into a deep depression. Unless you find out that you want to devote all of your life to being a SAHM/SAHD because it truly fullfills you.
tropsis 4y ago
I had the exact same symptoms for many years. I would be able to do leisure activities, but not productive ones. My mind would go blank when trying to explain something. I had little or no initiative. Initially I thought I suffered from "procrastistination", I tried all methods to fight it to no avail. Then I considered "burn out", "existential crisis", or weariness of work, but that was not the case at all. I started going to psychiatrists, initially they considered "depression", but I did not have a low mood. Finally, one of them figured out that I had "avolition" which can be considered disorder of volition or a disorder of diminished motivation. After a meditation retreat I had a psychotic break, so finally the end diagnosis was "negative symptoms of schizophrenia" (here "negative symptoms" means those involving the absence of something common to most people). It is possible to have "deficit schizophrenia" without positive symptoms (delusions, hallucinations, etc). However, most psychiatrist are not aware of this, and tend to classify the "disorders of volition" under depression, because that is what they are most familiar with, and because when you have avolition it makes you depressed to not be able to accomplish anything at all. I have tried several meds and I only had a minor improvement with cariprazine, but it caused me unmanageable insomnia, so I had to quit it.
- beaker52 4y ago
  I can relate to a lot of what you just said, including the meditation retreat. I feel compelled to ask: have you ever felt like you’re just playing a game with yourself with all your problems? Like sometimes it feels like I’ve got all these problems that I can’t escape and I’m desperately trying to improve myself, but sometimes I can’t shake this feeling that I’m choosing to have these problems somehow and for some reason - as if there’re two of me, the experiencer and the designer. Some might say “ahah look, it’s just schizophrenia”, but I think there’s more to it than that. For me, it feels like I’m having an awakening. But when I look at my productivity it looks like I’m falling asleep.
  - tropsis 4y ago
    Indeed, for many years I felt I was in control of what was happening to me, but that is of course an illusion. During my psychotic episode my sense of agency was disrupted, and it could be that the sense of agency is disrupted without having a psychotic episode. In the end free will is an illusion that manifests itself in different ways in each person. However, it is important to be grounded and have solid measures of mental health like productivity. Not all people are able to recognize that there is something wrong with them (anosognosia), however the metrics indicate if there is objectively something wrong.
adrianmsmith 4y ago
> wtf are we working for when we could be living I mean I have these thoughts too, then I remind myself that I need money to pay rent and food etc. (I try to avoid extravagance and devices, to save as much as possible, but I do still need somewhere to live and food.) I mean maybe in some alternative universe I might know how to build a shelter in a forest and grow food myself (although tbh that also sounds like a lot of work, not necessarily better than sitting in front of a monitor coding something I don't care about), but in this universe I live in a city and studied computer science and do not know how to do any of those things. So when I think why I am working and not living, I answer myself with "I am working because I need to buy food".
strikelaserclaw 4y ago
In my 20's when i had no partner, i spent so much time working on my employer related stuff, these include learning new technologies, building tools in the off hours to make everyone at my company more productive, being generally driven and passionate etc... Now that i'm in my 30's, the feeling that most of my work is just meaningless drivel to get some arbitrary bottom line up is just overwhelming.
scrapcode 4y ago
I'd be interested in discussing what works for you, when and if you find it. I am in a similar position and I posit that it is because my work is just completely uninteresting. I just cannot give up the "golden handcuffs" as my pay right is great for the effort required of me, and the work/life balance is the best I've ever had. I honestly think WFH contributes to my laziness, but I'd be crazy to give that up as it benefits my family greatly.
kab0b 4y ago
This has been my last year. I quit my job, went to doing something in a slightly different industry. Same thing. I can't explain it, I don't know what happened.
JamesSwift 4y ago
That definitely sounds like burnout to me. I was only able to get through it by completely shutting down the computer for a period, and ended up putting my mental energy into learning woodworking. After a month or two of that, I slowly reintroduced computer stuff (e.g. reading HN), then writing some quality of life scripts for myself, then finally getting back into actual "projects". In my experience, and it sounds like maybe yours as well, it was really important I didn't force the work otherwise I had a severe internal procrastination/aversion kick in.
AidenVennis 4y ago
I'm having the exact same thing right now. If I reflect on what happend last year I think I burned out after a particular hard issue with my last employee; I had no help from my co-workers and was doing it all by myself. The client was constantly breathing down my neck to ask when it's done and why it's taking so long and eventually I finished it, reduced the bundle size of the website by almost 2/3 and was really happy with the result. The client tho wasn't happy because a performance number from Pagespeed didn't increase as much as they hoped and they where unhappy because it cost soo much time and money. I was done with this shit and left seeking happiness elsewhere. Started at a new company almost half a year ago thinking a smaller company without clients, without time registration and with a single application to focus on would fix all my problems. It did for the first few months, but now I'm having the exact same issue where I really don't have the motivation to do stuff... I do have to say I also moved in to another home a few months ago and spend a lot of time fixing stuff in our new home, maybe overdoing it a bit there, so it can also be that I'm just a bit exhausted right now. Also, I notice that winter time here in Western Europe is a bitch, so getting longer days again would do my mood a lot of good. I think I have had these moments in the past as well and I think eventually they will pass again. I'm going to take a bit more care of myself by doing some more physical training, eating healthier and seeing friends more. It just sucks for now...
wonderwonder 4y ago
I have kids and have experienced the exact same thing. Root cause for me I think is I don't like working in tech but make to much money to leave. I'm trading brain cycles and life hours for money doing something I really don't enjoy. Anything I build is meaningless. I'm taken to a line from fight club: "We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off"
dyingkneepad 4y ago
Having kids and a partner just helps to amplify the guilt by 10x because now your possibly destructive actions have impact on lives that are not your own. They also make it 10x harder to focus because not only you have to worry about delivering work, you have to help Johnny learn how to read, take Anne to the doctor, organize the birthday party, pay all these extra bills, etc, etc.
giantg2 4y ago
Kids will not help this. Now that I have a kid, I have less time to focus on work and more distractions at home. There's a lot more pressure to provide and multiple family medical issues add even more pressure due to bills. Handling those issues also seems to have caused or accelerated burnout.
mayormcmatt 4y ago
Man, this describes me to a T (just that I'm a touch older). Recently I've begun therapy to try and drill to the center of the issue; in the meantime, I'm attempting to pivot my career away from e-commerce web development into something more "useful," like working for a utility, or something along those lines.
- INTPenis 4y ago
  I think there are two possible ways to go from here. Either find a meaningful job, but how long will it last? Or you come to terms with the fact that your job is only meant to facilitate your life, work/life balance in other words, and just keep doing it just well enough to continue living your best life on your own time. I'm leaning towards option B.
sangnoir 4y ago
Classic burnout symptoms. You may need a break, or it may get progressively worse - as in transition from indifference/avoidance of work, to carelessness, or anger at the thought of work, or possibly subconsciously trying to get yourself fired (I'm being an armchair psychologist on the last one, but it's absolutely based on a true story)
frozencell 4y ago
Username tells a lot! No, really, thank you for sharing your story, it's maybe futile but an original reminder that we are all on the same kind of boat.
spikder 4y ago
https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/write-vomit-draft-important/ https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/write-vomit-draft-impo... ... once you're using your brain again, all these questions just melt away.

BxGyw2 4y ago

Every time I've felt like this it's been time for a change of responsibilities. Are you stagnant?

INTPenis 4y ago
That's a really good point, yes. More than a decade with the same employer. But at the same time that employer provides such job security that it allows me to travel the world (which I just started) and still work. So that's kinda keeping me there. That is also what is motivating me to get back on track because I have a goal now, to travel, and my job is financing that, and the freedom my employer provides is making it possible. But yeah I have been dabbling in the job market to kickstart my motivation again. But it has to be a remote-only job of course.
- BxGyw2 4y ago
  It's tough hey - I'm in the exact situation you're in right now - got my resume open on the other screen. I think it's important to always remember (jobs, relationships, any situation really) that although it can be hard to see outside your own situation the world is inconceivably large and numerically it's super unlikely that you can't find a day job equal or better than the one you're in. Good luck with the hunt dude
- jwmoz 4y ago
  A decade at the same place sounds soul destroying. Try something different.
  - wnolens 4y ago
    Yes I like a 4-5y rule. Highschool, college, jobs.. Enough time to really transform yourself, then move on.
- kubanczyk 4y ago
  > I have a goal now, to travel, and my job is financing that Are you trying to fool your own emotions that way? That part of your brain is not that clueless not to recognize that the daily life did not change, only labels got rearranged. My hypothesis is that work is more important to you than travel. And my second hypothesis is that your goal was de facto (at the time you wrote the top post) to maintain stability, i.e. to change nothing about your job.

shrimpx 4y ago

Sounds like burnout. Sticking around because you feel guilty you've been unproductive sounds like prolonging the problem. I'm not an expert, this isn't advice.

deleted 4y ago

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John23832 4y ago

You're burnt out. We've all been there. Focus on yourself to get better. As far as work, break tasks down AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE. Do a portion and pat yourself on the back. You'll be able to build up from there. Part of burnout is seeing a wall of work and your body/mind having an adverse reaction to it. You need smaller portions to get back on the horse.

mlatu 4y ago
oh yeah, keep feeding the grinder, never stop feeding the grinder or else.
- John23832 4y ago
  We all need to be able to make a living, whether it's software engineering, wood working, or day dreaming (if you can get paid for that). In general life is about getting big things done. Whether it's raising a kid, bagging 20 tons of groceries, wiring a house, or shipping 2M lines of code. The point being made is how to do that sustainably. Don't be a curmudgeon.
  - shanebellone 4y ago
    "The point being made is how to do that sustainably." This is something I've battled with my whole life. By default, I have two switch positions -- on and off. When I flip a switch to the on position, it'll eventually flip back to the off position. In my experience, balance is key. Make consistent progress and maintain interest without becoming obsessed or otherwise overly invested. This is easier said than done.
  - dangwhy 4y ago
    > In general life is about getting big things done. Based on your responses, I envy your clarity and general attitude towards life. You seem to have purpose and drive that comes from that purpose. I've never found that clarity of "life is about X". Even if i did, it only last a while and then i was back to square one. You are experiencing what OP is experiencing, complete attachment to your beliefs, in your case its very productive. kudos.

conductr 4y ago

I've had this happen more often than burnout. For me, it's simple lack of engagement. Even if you never gave much, when you really stop giving a shit, it becomes difficult to give even a bare minimum. It's usually coupled with a feeling that anything else you do with your time is more important than work. Like anything. I recall skipping important meetings to go outside and pick up dog poo from the lawn. Also for me, it's usually solved by finding a new job/challenge.

marcosdumay 4y ago
That looks like a very effective defense mechanism for recovering from burnout. Maybe the reason you didn't noticed it as burnout is that you recovered while it was still mild.
- conductr 4y ago
  Maybe but I don't think so. In my mind, burnout requires some point of burn. In my experience, these jobs are just cush and have a nice paycheck but lack any type of burn. I usually get paid well to do something I feel is trivial but they see value in it. The job doesn't actually challenge me intellectually and maybe it was fine when I liked the people or was building out the process but then over time it's not enough to keep my mind from wondering (and sometimes the people change, so my engagement tanks because of that). I've had burnout too (I think). It's stressful as fuck. What I described above is not, because I don't care at all. My burnout situations have crashed hard and usually bleed into my personal life more so.
robertlagrant 4y ago
Huh, yes. I remember in my house at uni the washing up was never done more than when we should've all been revising.

mlatu 4y ago

even a wife and two kids cant save you from those thoughts.

suranyami 4y ago

> It might be rooted in the fact that I don't have kids As a parent: nope, it's definitely not that. Yes, having children is a rich and beautiful experience. It's also a ruthless grind. So, if you think you're feeling lethargic and it's all a bit futile, imagine doing everything you do now, but also arguing with a smaller, more annoying version of yourself for a couple of decades while sleep deprived, and with 1/4 of the disposable income you have now. For me, it's a battle between "if I do something, someone's just gonna fuck it up anyway" and "I used to love this. I can still get excited by this, right?" I constantly find myself in a state of paralysis where I know what to do, I know how to do it, I even know how to do it quickly so it can be over and done, but I still just don't want to START anything. I suspect it's a result of a decade or so of working in startups with borderline psychotic egomaniacs. For instance, one CEO would periodically grab me, walk me a few blocks away from the office and proceed to scream in my face for 20 minutes on the sidewalk. There are many, many other examples, but honestly, it's all too familiar and boring to recount. At times I feel it may be akin to PTSD. The psych I saw suspected it may well be, but unfortunately there are many more needy patients being treated for far worse PTSD (e.g. Afghanistan, Iraq, etc). Apparently, there's a term for this "inability to do stuff": executive dysfunction. That's about as much as I know. One of the other unsettling things that has recently manifested itself has been stuttering. I've never stuttered and always prided myself on being a persuasive and confident speaker. But since the above horror-show I've often found myself unable to string sentences together, getting tongue-tied, long pauses. Maybe it's just age, but it seems correlated time-wise. Yes, I know, correlation is not causation.

leftbit 4y ago
Sounds familiar, especially the stuttering. Not really sure what's going on with me, but I found that sitting down for about 10 minutes and drinking one or two glasses of water alleviates the symptoms. Might be I just need the break, might be I'm stuttering because I've been dehydrated.
heleninboodler 4y ago
If INTPenis hears anything I hope it's that not having kids isn't the root of this problem. I have kids and it's wonderful, but I too feel all the same lethargy and lack of purpose interspersed with bouts of helping kids with their homework and relentlessly getting their grumpy asses to school at ungodly hours every day and generally trying hard not to fuck them up. If you're already in a shitty situation, having kids definitely does not fix it. If you find it inexplicably hard to make it to your 9am standup, try making it your responsibility to get two other humans out of bed and ready for school at 6:35 every day and then make it to your 9am standup.

user_named 4y ago

Sounds like burnout. But also, tried Vitamin B Complex. I was in a similar state, helped instantly.

MonkeyClub 4y ago
+1 on B vitamins, and also iron per case. Daily walks, hydration (water, not beverages), and good sleep patterns, are also fundamental wellbeing factors. Personally, I’ve both strolled out of burnout with such combinations, and crawled into burnout without them. It’s amazing how easily we neglect our most basic needs, and how quickly this backlashes.

timellis-smith 4y ago

As an allegory. I've on occasion been in very cold water (cutting ropes from propellors of boats and stand-up paddle boarding). While my core body temperature is still below normal, I've found myself incapable of going back into the cold water, like my body physically refuses. The mind works to protect itself, and perhaps that's what its doing with regards to work - trying to protect you from further damaging yourself due to burn-out.

abyssin 4y ago
I see it as emotions that, despite being ignored by a more rational part of the mind, persist and keep functionning like they should. Emotions provide information about what's good for us. It isn't always perfect information and it makes sense to manage them rationally. But at some point, reason cannot function in a void. In my experience, once I've left a situation where I wasn't aware that I didn't feel good, it becomes very obvious I didn't feel good, to the point that going back into that situation sounds like a laughable idea.
- totetsu 4y ago
  This is what "ADHD" kind of feels like, but the emotions react to everything, even when the metaphorical water isn't very cold at all.
  - abyssin 4y ago
    Interesting that you're mentioning ADHD, I've spent quite some time lately researching on this topic. I was able to try methylphenidate recently and an unexpected effect it had on me was that I noticed this lingering anxiety had disappeared, something I usually feel around the heart, but no longer notice. Unfortunately methylphenidate has its drawbacks, and to go back to the main conversation I can imagine how it could trigger psychosis for some individuals.

deleted 4y ago

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shafyy 4y ago

Could it be that your job just bores you and you need to do something else?

danuker 4y ago

> wtf are we working for when we could be living? I try to find a balance. I computed based on diminishing returns of income wrt. life expectancy (possibly with a vast error) that the optimal amount I should be working is 2h/d (if I never retire). Going over that means I'll be able to retire, and going too much (>4h/day) means my life is prolonged increasingly just for work. So only do this if you are crazy about work. Going below means I'll have to make some sacrifices. I am thankful for my employer accepting such terms (a variable number of few hours).

moffkalast 4y ago
Interesting, I've also found 4h/day to be the a good average. Key word there is average though, some days it feels more like doing 2h or none, other days with a (rare) interesting problem it can spiral to like 10h too. The typical full time job fixed work hours are just so too damn rigid.

martopix 4y ago

This is not quite the same as a full breakdown, it sounds more like a burnout. Which is still important and a lot of people will relate with, including myself. Part of it (i.e. as long as it doesn't affect your life experience in a disproportionate way) is also very normal -- we all wander what's the meaning of our life. Searching around for burnout, including on this website, might give you some relatable stuff to read. It's possible that solving it might require you taking a long break (if you can), or reevaluate your life and change careers. These are things that take courage however, and a lot of people just keep going because they hate it, but it's still their comfort zone. Give yourself time to mature a decision, might be a few years, even.

k3liutZu 4y ago

This sounds like burnout.

jack_pp 4y ago

I've gone through that at the start of the pandemic. In hindsight it might've been my subconscious telling me that I should do something else. I had the financial means to work on stuff that I enjoyed and I didn't have to rely on employment but for.. reasons I didn't do those things. So I suggest taking a break from distractions and thinking really hard about your long term goals and how to achieve them. You might feel lethargic and not motivated precisely because you don't have a good purpose for your life. The standard "just go to work, save money, start a family" life course is not for everybody. I'm not saying you shouldn't start a family but if you have the financial means, creativity and skill to build a business of your own I believe your family life will be much better, you will have more time to spend with your kids if you have a stable source of income that doesn't require you to work 40 hours a week for and which is at risk of going away because of office politics or whatever. If I don't feel I have control over my own life I feel exactly like you described but.. that might just be me. Regarding your existential dread.. my philosophy as someone who is close to Ukraine and feared that the war would spill into my country, is that while it may all end tomorrow for some reason or another.. that possibility is not worth thinking about. If I really knew for certain I would die in 2 years then I'd become totally hedonistic, I'd spend all my resources to just have the most fun possible but we don't know that. Humanity has gone through worse periods than we're facing right now but it got through them so chances are we'll get through it too so why not plan for the future? I've been hedonistic for the past 7 years, it gets old. If you haven't lived your life fully until now and just dread that you've been working your ass off, not going out, not meeting people, not taking drugs or whatever other hedonistic activity you wish you had gone through then maybe go do that, get it out of your system but eventually you'll want to settle down, plan for the future and even though it's scary and your mind will throw a lot of roadblocks I feel you still have to do it to truly be fulfilled.

poulpy123 4y ago

Those are symptoms of depression

otikik 4y ago

Hey, sorry you are going through that. > I know it's a cliché but I'm almost 40 so this isn't your regular teenage angst "nothing matters", I thought I was past that. Teenage angst has a time. Unfortunately Midlife Crisis also has a time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlife_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlife_crisis It could be what you are going through, at least partially. I went through it recently - coupled with the pandemic and unfortunate family problems, I ended up depressed. I reached out for help. Therapy took the blunt out of it. Didn't fix everything, but I am functional. I get "you are a good parent" and "you are a good boss" from time to time. Brightens my day. If therapy isn't for you, try the basics: exercise, diet, hobbies, family, friends. Anything that improves your mood will help you look at life with a more positive attitude. Be gradual with changes and expect short-term setbacks - what matters is improving in the medium-long term. Good luck!

otikik 4y ago
Oh I forgot sleep on the basics. Very important for mood. Get enough hours. You can be sleep-deprived and not know it.

idiocrat 4y ago

Please tell me if you find a cure or a way out. I have tried several types of supplements and could fix some of long-lasting energy problems.

INTPenis 4y ago
I don't think it is an energy problem either. I can find energy for other things, just not my employment. I think people were right that I am stagnating and I feel the need for new challenges. The catch 22 is that my job is so amazing that it gives me the newfound (newly realized) freedom to see the world while working. So I either stay, find some motivation to avoid the shame of not working, and keep travelling to fulfill my work/life balance. Or I find a new job with new motivation where I'll be putting in more hours, more commitment and perhaps have less time for travel. But regarding the energy, I take daily supplements of vitamin D and all the B vitamins, and I do feel that it does help.
- edeion 4y ago
  With respect to supplements... I can relate to what you describe and I tend to think it's not just based on chemistry. That being said, on different occasions, I felt a dramatic boost when taking magnesium + zinc + B cocktail. I guess it means I was deficient in those. Who know is you aren't...

peepee1982 4y ago

Kids keep you moving to some extent. But if you're lethargic already, kids will probably make it much, much worse and possibly throw you into a deep depression. Unless you find out that you want to devote all of your life to being a SAHM/SAHD because it truly fullfills you.

tropsis 4y ago

I had the exact same symptoms for many years. I would be able to do leisure activities, but not productive ones. My mind would go blank when trying to explain something. I had little or no initiative. Initially I thought I suffered from "procrastistination", I tried all methods to fight it to no avail. Then I considered "burn out", "existential crisis", or weariness of work, but that was not the case at all. I started going to psychiatrists, initially they considered "depression", but I did not have a low mood. Finally, one of them figured out that I had "avolition" which can be considered disorder of volition or a disorder of diminished motivation. After a meditation retreat I had a psychotic break, so finally the end diagnosis was "negative symptoms of schizophrenia" (here "negative symptoms" means those involving the absence of something common to most people). It is possible to have "deficit schizophrenia" without positive symptoms (delusions, hallucinations, etc). However, most psychiatrist are not aware of this, and tend to classify the "disorders of volition" under depression, because that is what they are most familiar with, and because when you have avolition it makes you depressed to not be able to accomplish anything at all. I have tried several meds and I only had a minor improvement with cariprazine, but it caused me unmanageable insomnia, so I had to quit it.

beaker52 4y ago
I can relate to a lot of what you just said, including the meditation retreat. I feel compelled to ask: have you ever felt like you’re just playing a game with yourself with all your problems? Like sometimes it feels like I’ve got all these problems that I can’t escape and I’m desperately trying to improve myself, but sometimes I can’t shake this feeling that I’m choosing to have these problems somehow and for some reason - as if there’re two of me, the experiencer and the designer. Some might say “ahah look, it’s just schizophrenia”, but I think there’s more to it than that. For me, it feels like I’m having an awakening. But when I look at my productivity it looks like I’m falling asleep.
- tropsis 4y ago
  Indeed, for many years I felt I was in control of what was happening to me, but that is of course an illusion. During my psychotic episode my sense of agency was disrupted, and it could be that the sense of agency is disrupted without having a psychotic episode. In the end free will is an illusion that manifests itself in different ways in each person. However, it is important to be grounded and have solid measures of mental health like productivity. Not all people are able to recognize that there is something wrong with them (anosognosia), however the metrics indicate if there is objectively something wrong.

adrianmsmith 4y ago

> wtf are we working for when we could be living I mean I have these thoughts too, then I remind myself that I need money to pay rent and food etc. (I try to avoid extravagance and devices, to save as much as possible, but I do still need somewhere to live and food.) I mean maybe in some alternative universe I might know how to build a shelter in a forest and grow food myself (although tbh that also sounds like a lot of work, not necessarily better than sitting in front of a monitor coding something I don't care about), but in this universe I live in a city and studied computer science and do not know how to do any of those things. So when I think why I am working and not living, I answer myself with "I am working because I need to buy food".

strikelaserclaw 4y ago

In my 20's when i had no partner, i spent so much time working on my employer related stuff, these include learning new technologies, building tools in the off hours to make everyone at my company more productive, being generally driven and passionate etc... Now that i'm in my 30's, the feeling that most of my work is just meaningless drivel to get some arbitrary bottom line up is just overwhelming.

scrapcode 4y ago

I'd be interested in discussing what works for you, when and if you find it. I am in a similar position and I posit that it is because my work is just completely uninteresting. I just cannot give up the "golden handcuffs" as my pay right is great for the effort required of me, and the work/life balance is the best I've ever had. I honestly think WFH contributes to my laziness, but I'd be crazy to give that up as it benefits my family greatly.

kab0b 4y ago

This has been my last year. I quit my job, went to doing something in a slightly different industry. Same thing. I can't explain it, I don't know what happened.

JamesSwift 4y ago

That definitely sounds like burnout to me. I was only able to get through it by completely shutting down the computer for a period, and ended up putting my mental energy into learning woodworking. After a month or two of that, I slowly reintroduced computer stuff (e.g. reading HN), then writing some quality of life scripts for myself, then finally getting back into actual "projects". In my experience, and it sounds like maybe yours as well, it was really important I didn't force the work otherwise I had a severe internal procrastination/aversion kick in.

AidenVennis 4y ago

I'm having the exact same thing right now. If I reflect on what happend last year I think I burned out after a particular hard issue with my last employee; I had no help from my co-workers and was doing it all by myself. The client was constantly breathing down my neck to ask when it's done and why it's taking so long and eventually I finished it, reduced the bundle size of the website by almost 2/3 and was really happy with the result. The client tho wasn't happy because a performance number from Pagespeed didn't increase as much as they hoped and they where unhappy because it cost soo much time and money. I was done with this shit and left seeking happiness elsewhere. Started at a new company almost half a year ago thinking a smaller company without clients, without time registration and with a single application to focus on would fix all my problems. It did for the first few months, but now I'm having the exact same issue where I really don't have the motivation to do stuff... I do have to say I also moved in to another home a few months ago and spend a lot of time fixing stuff in our new home, maybe overdoing it a bit there, so it can also be that I'm just a bit exhausted right now. Also, I notice that winter time here in Western Europe is a bitch, so getting longer days again would do my mood a lot of good. I think I have had these moments in the past as well and I think eventually they will pass again. I'm going to take a bit more care of myself by doing some more physical training, eating healthier and seeing friends more. It just sucks for now...

wonderwonder 4y ago

I have kids and have experienced the exact same thing. Root cause for me I think is I don't like working in tech but make to much money to leave. I'm trading brain cycles and life hours for money doing something I really don't enjoy. Anything I build is meaningless. I'm taken to a line from fight club: "We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off"

dyingkneepad 4y ago

Having kids and a partner just helps to amplify the guilt by 10x because now your possibly destructive actions have impact on lives that are not your own. They also make it 10x harder to focus because not only you have to worry about delivering work, you have to help Johnny learn how to read, take Anne to the doctor, organize the birthday party, pay all these extra bills, etc, etc.

giantg2 4y ago

Kids will not help this. Now that I have a kid, I have less time to focus on work and more distractions at home. There's a lot more pressure to provide and multiple family medical issues add even more pressure due to bills. Handling those issues also seems to have caused or accelerated burnout.

mayormcmatt 4y ago

Man, this describes me to a T (just that I'm a touch older). Recently I've begun therapy to try and drill to the center of the issue; in the meantime, I'm attempting to pivot my career away from e-commerce web development into something more "useful," like working for a utility, or something along those lines.

INTPenis 4y ago
I think there are two possible ways to go from here. Either find a meaningful job, but how long will it last? Or you come to terms with the fact that your job is only meant to facilitate your life, work/life balance in other words, and just keep doing it just well enough to continue living your best life on your own time. I'm leaning towards option B.

sangnoir 4y ago

Classic burnout symptoms. You may need a break, or it may get progressively worse - as in transition from indifference/avoidance of work, to carelessness, or anger at the thought of work, or possibly subconsciously trying to get yourself fired (I'm being an armchair psychologist on the last one, but it's absolutely based on a true story)

frozencell 4y ago

Username tells a lot! No, really, thank you for sharing your story, it's maybe futile but an original reminder that we are all on the same kind of boat.

spikder 4y ago

https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/write-vomit-draft-important/ https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/write-vomit-draft-impo... ... once you're using your brain again, all these questions just melt away.