8 ms·

Do you really believe the USAF and rest of the military and 3 letter agencies had not already intercepted/jammed/hacked the comms link? By letting it saunter a

Do you really believe the USAF and rest of the military and 3 letter agencies had not already intercepted/jammed/hacked the comms link? By letting it saunter all the way across they also probably got a lot of good info on its capabilities.

ck2 4y ago
[flagged]
- moomoo11 4y ago
  Must be nice being so privileged to talk down the very thing that maintains global trade channels (diplomacy) and keeps most of the world in check. Most of the world is backwater nations who oppress the shit out of their population making whatever faults you find in the US seem trivial. And yes the world isn’t fair and entropy exists. EU is basically a forced alliance after thousand years of constant fighting that led to the Nazis and fascists rising to power who had to be put down, then having to maintain an eastern bulwark against the Russians (paid for by USA let’s be honest). Let’s see how well it holds. If anything I think the USA needs to double its military spending and increase the size of its navy and international dominance. North America is safe and will continue, even if the whole world burns or even ICBMs are deployed towards the major cities.
  - ck2 4y ago
    The idea people would still function while the entire east and west coast burns is the same fantasy at massive scale as people who walk around with guns thinking they are going to somehow defeat someone who has planned and already actively shooting at them. I believe great many ICBMs would definitely make it to major cities and that is the end of the world. We've already seen how people handle a pandemic, imagine active fallout but they cannot see the radiation. They'd be dropping like flies. Once the power and water is gone, 99% of American civilization is gone. Why do you think domestic terrorists are going after power stations (successfully so imagine national defense).
    - moomoo11 4y ago
      I don’t believe that deploying the entire nuclear arsenal of the world would wipe humanity off the face of earth. Would it suck and render some places uninhabitable? Yes. Would it affect fresh water and air quality? You bet. But people will find a way like a worm and some will survive. I am in Bay Area so I probably won’t, but others will. What about places in Africa and South East Asia? Probably will be “fine”. Besides, earth has been through worse. Many species went extinct. But many survived. Humans are definitely the best species this planet has ever produced (that we know of). Again, it’s about survival of specific few. As for the power station stuff I will have to read up on it. I wasn’t aware that is going on. Thanks for pointing that out.
      - 10u152 4y ago
        100% agree. The developed world might be deleted but there will be plenty of tribes in Africa/SE Asia etc who will pretty much continue unaffected. Except those bothersome missionaries will stop coming around. The human race will continue though.
        moomoo11 4y ago
        Yeah. I’d be pretty bummed to go that way though. It makes me sad and I hope it doesn’t happen.
      - yawpitch 4y ago
        > Humans are definitely the best species this planet has ever produced (that we know of). It’s certainly the most solipsistic… and, likely not coincidentally, it’s the only one that has developed the capacity to make the entire planet functionally uninhabitable to its own species. Also tardigrades will definitely outlast the human species… as will rats, cockroaches, and those mouth-less tube worms that cluster around deep sea vents… the only question is how soon will they have outlasted us?
        moomoo11 4y ago
        I don’t see rats sending devices outside the solar system nor do I see roaches developing modern medicine or heavy industry. We are the best product made on earth and just because some of us are assholes doesn’t mean all of us are. Of all the species so far we have the most potential. Humans surviving would be a way more valuable proposition than some rodents who cannibalize each other because they don’t know any better. We will nuke each other but at least we were able to also develop so much more positive things too. And thankfully there are way more awesome and good people in the world. Just leadership is wack lol.
  - IMTDb 4y ago
    The danger for the US are inside, not outside. The military spending is already far sufficient to guarantee the safety of the country against external state nations. The issue is that it does not spend enough to maintain internal peace. The dudes that took over the capitol aren’t Chinese or Russian. Now of course, you could use your military power to control your population and prevent it from rebelling even if it is unsatisfied by the government. But wouldn’t that turn the US in an oppressive state. Less military spending and more social investments is the way to go if you want to prevent the US from turning into a backwater nation.
    - moomoo11 4y ago
      I agree from an optics pov but even with the capitol thing.. half the country and half the politicians elected by them think it wasn’t a big deal. Meanwhile everyone argues over it while.. Everything is in control, at least in my opinion. I’m just a simple tax payer, and honestly I trust the people who really run the country while laymen argue over dumb shit and our side vs that side etc.
      - cpursley 4y ago
        > I trust the people who really run the country Yikes.
        moomoo11 4y ago
        Try growing up in a country where corruption is rampant, people die from religious and sectarian violence (sometimes sanctioned by the govt itself), and living without reliable electricity and water because the money was eaten by bribes and gangsters. Moved to the USA and it’s literally night and day. In a world full of dictatorships, corruption, and awful human rights, the USA is way better. Only an intellectually dishonest person who has never experienced hardship (getting laid off from a 400k tc job doesn’t count lmao) would think otherwise.
        iforgotpassword 4y ago
  - bbor 4y ago
    Hmmm… I wonder why the country with the biggest military (and their Allies) is the only place rich enough not to be a backwater? I implore you to think how you might answer that question if you were born in such a backwater. Especially if it was a backwater where the US had recently used that military to significantly influence the government, such as Iran, 1953 Guatemala, 1954, Congo, 1960, Laos, 1960, Iraq, 1963, Brazil, 1964, British Guiana, 1964, Bolivia, 1964, Dominican Republic, 1965, Indonesia, 1965, Ghana, 1966, Greece, 1967, Cambodia, 1970, Bolivia, 1971, Chile, 1973, Australia, 1975, Portugal, 1976, Argentina, 1976, Jamaica, 1980, Turkey, 1980, Chad, 1982, Fiji, 1987, Nicaragua, 1987, Afghanistan, 1989, Panama, 1989, Bulgaria, 1990, Albania, 1991, Yugoslavia, 2000, Ecuador, 2000, Afghanistan, 2001, Venezuela, 2002, Iraq, 2003, Haiti, 2004, or Libya, 2011. Oo or Israel earlier this week. That said yeah definitely should’ve shot down that ballon over the Aleutians
    - moomoo11 4y ago
      My backwater nation was previously a British colony. Today people who look like me do their best to put other people who like me down. Massacres happen, people live like insects in awful conditions just trying to survive while govt and industrialists operate without any loyalty or care for the country. No wonder people try to immigrate out. The Americans kicked British empire back to their island in the 1700s and imo historically speaking makes me side with them. Especially considering they were successful in 1700s… and on their own with a strategic naval help from Marquis de Lafayette. Again in a world with awful horrible people at least America maintains the order for a far more important role - diplomacy through global trade. The only reason the world has gotten better for so many people all around the world is the last 70 years that America has completely dominated the world stage. Global trade, capitalism, and opening up has made the world objectively better. Even the communists practice capitalism. Or in America they work for Meta/Google/hi tech while pretending to be comrade. And it’s not like those countries were some hippie communes. They were extremely brutal to their own people in some cases, I mean go read about Asian or African histories from just this past 100 years. They did awful shit to their own people and with America nowhere in sight til WW2 Again the world isn’t perfect. You have to place your bets, and mine is that I don’t trust most of the other countries in the world to do better than what the USA has accomplished thus far. It’s why I personally choose to live in the USA when I have like 150+ choices to potentially choose.
404mm 4y ago
I don’t think they jammed it, considering how high it was. Intercepted .. I mean, China can use strong encryption too.
- ttul 4y ago
  US military aircraft can remotely destroy electronics aboard other aircraft by aiming a highly focused beam precisely onto it, thus disabling it. They do t have to decrypt anything. They just have to fry it.
  - cma 4y ago
    A great way to study those capabilities then would be to send a trial balloon... We aren't goijg ti necessarily reveal intricate details of our capabilities like that.
  - alanh 4y ago
    maybe but... it seems clear enough they did not do this given that it seems to have been piloted through a very nice high-value course across the US
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      Weather balloons aren’t piloted. I don’t think it had any control planes at all, beyond just floating along atmospheric currents. At best they can control elevation? Ok, googling a bit: > Is it possible to steer or otherwise control a typical high-altitude balloon? It can be controlled, but let me be careful about what I mean by that. Balloons go with the wind. And so the only control that a balloon has is: in some balloons, you can control the altitude—you can make it go higher or lower. To the extent that the wind speed and direction varies with altitude, you can change the altitude, within some limits. And that can give you some measure of control—but not anywhere near the level of control that you have [with an airplane]. You can’t turn around and go the other direction; you can never go upwind in the balloon. You’re always going to be moving with the atmosphere that surrounds it. From https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-balloon-has-unexpected-maneuverability/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-ballo... So does that really count as piloting?
SergeAx 4y ago
FWIW, all comms of that balloon would be satellite. I don't think it is easy to jam, let alone intercept.
- moomoo11 4y ago
  I’m sure in 1970s nobody nobody thought GPS would become a reality within a decade. “They will never be able to pinpoint position that way!” My guy. It’s the United States military. All the shit we use is a by product of their first move. If it seems impossible today they’ve already figured it out. Not to mention they made a nuclear bomb and the Manhattan project was an insane achievement.
  - gptgpp 4y ago
    Weird... Most groundbreaking research, and the consumer tech that eventually comes from it, seems to come out of post-secondary and tech/research companies. Crazy to think it's all a front and it's actually stemming from the US Military. Thank you for your service!
    - jakear 4y ago
      Not that crazy. Public knowledge, even. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Lincoln_Laboratory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Lincoln_Laboratory
      - gptgpp 4y ago
        Or... hear me out here... It's obviously a web of private R&D, public institutions like NASA, higher education, and yes, the military too. But acting like scientific innovation and technical progress is all, or even a majority due to the military is boot-licking weirdness. You have fun with that. I just don't know how you can look at the heaps of Nobel Prize winners, Turing Award, etc. or groundbreaking papers in almost and field and think "Oh yeah, must be the American Military is behind this."
        4y ago
sieabahlpark 4y ago
[dead]
fumeux_fume 4y ago
Had to lol at this one. Yeah, after they hacked the comms link and they were able to gain access to the master program.
- moomoo11 4y ago
  lol. Ok I’ll go along. And it turns out to be a node version 12 app :’D
- pageandrew 4y ago
  Its very possible that they could jam the radio frequencies the balloon uses. "Hacking the comms link", not so much, but neutering its ability to phone home... very possible.
  - moomoo11 4y ago
    Yeah and it’s why hacked was the third option aka least likely. Not my fault people pick one thing out of a range of possibilities and fixate on it lol.
  - Justin_K 4y ago
    Ya what if it uses cellular on a US sim? Are you going to jam all the cell spectrums?
    - iforgotpassword 4y ago
      Oh snap right, a US three letter agency telling a US mobile carrier to disable a US SIM sounds like an impossible feat. Well played, China!
      - hutzlibu 4y ago
        Yes, it is a very high profile debate going on around here. That means, there are competent people commenting, but they get drown in other comments. People forget way too often, that you don't need to have an opinion on everything, or worse, share that opinion everywhere.
sgtnoodle 4y ago
I think you're being overly generous in attributing competency/capability. Just thinking about the physics of it, robustly jamming an unknown signal of a transmitter 60KM high seems like a rather impossible task. If the air force were somehow broadcasting several megawatts of broad spectrum noise over a populated area, somebody would have noticed. The authorities in charge have no real idea what's going on or what the payload is. This whole situation is just weird. Maybe it is just some irresponsible private organization. The Baidu equivalent of Project Loon?
- SoylentYellow 4y ago
  > If the air force were somehow broadcasting several megawatts of broad spectrum noise over a populated area, somebody would have noticed. Interesting that you think modern jamming works that way. It doesn't.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    Barrage jamming very much is still used. Sometimes there is nothing else you can use.
  - h0l0cube 4y ago
    Can you describe how it works?
- moomoo11 4y ago
  I mean TikTok / bytedance is just some irresponsible private organization. That is controlled by the CCP.
- dr-detroit 4y ago
  [dead]

ck2 4y ago

[flagged]

moomoo11 4y ago
Must be nice being so privileged to talk down the very thing that maintains global trade channels (diplomacy) and keeps most of the world in check. Most of the world is backwater nations who oppress the shit out of their population making whatever faults you find in the US seem trivial. And yes the world isn’t fair and entropy exists. EU is basically a forced alliance after thousand years of constant fighting that led to the Nazis and fascists rising to power who had to be put down, then having to maintain an eastern bulwark against the Russians (paid for by USA let’s be honest). Let’s see how well it holds. If anything I think the USA needs to double its military spending and increase the size of its navy and international dominance. North America is safe and will continue, even if the whole world burns or even ICBMs are deployed towards the major cities.
- ck2 4y ago
  The idea people would still function while the entire east and west coast burns is the same fantasy at massive scale as people who walk around with guns thinking they are going to somehow defeat someone who has planned and already actively shooting at them. I believe great many ICBMs would definitely make it to major cities and that is the end of the world. We've already seen how people handle a pandemic, imagine active fallout but they cannot see the radiation. They'd be dropping like flies. Once the power and water is gone, 99% of American civilization is gone. Why do you think domestic terrorists are going after power stations (successfully so imagine national defense).
  - moomoo11 4y ago
    I don’t believe that deploying the entire nuclear arsenal of the world would wipe humanity off the face of earth. Would it suck and render some places uninhabitable? Yes. Would it affect fresh water and air quality? You bet. But people will find a way like a worm and some will survive. I am in Bay Area so I probably won’t, but others will. What about places in Africa and South East Asia? Probably will be “fine”. Besides, earth has been through worse. Many species went extinct. But many survived. Humans are definitely the best species this planet has ever produced (that we know of). Again, it’s about survival of specific few. As for the power station stuff I will have to read up on it. I wasn’t aware that is going on. Thanks for pointing that out.
    - 10u152 4y ago
      100% agree. The developed world might be deleted but there will be plenty of tribes in Africa/SE Asia etc who will pretty much continue unaffected. Except those bothersome missionaries will stop coming around. The human race will continue though.
      - moomoo11 4y ago
        Yeah. I’d be pretty bummed to go that way though. It makes me sad and I hope it doesn’t happen.
    - yawpitch 4y ago
      > Humans are definitely the best species this planet has ever produced (that we know of). It’s certainly the most solipsistic… and, likely not coincidentally, it’s the only one that has developed the capacity to make the entire planet functionally uninhabitable to its own species. Also tardigrades will definitely outlast the human species… as will rats, cockroaches, and those mouth-less tube worms that cluster around deep sea vents… the only question is how soon will they have outlasted us?
      - moomoo11 4y ago
        I don’t see rats sending devices outside the solar system nor do I see roaches developing modern medicine or heavy industry. We are the best product made on earth and just because some of us are assholes doesn’t mean all of us are. Of all the species so far we have the most potential. Humans surviving would be a way more valuable proposition than some rodents who cannibalize each other because they don’t know any better. We will nuke each other but at least we were able to also develop so much more positive things too. And thankfully there are way more awesome and good people in the world. Just leadership is wack lol.
- IMTDb 4y ago
  The danger for the US are inside, not outside. The military spending is already far sufficient to guarantee the safety of the country against external state nations. The issue is that it does not spend enough to maintain internal peace. The dudes that took over the capitol aren’t Chinese or Russian. Now of course, you could use your military power to control your population and prevent it from rebelling even if it is unsatisfied by the government. But wouldn’t that turn the US in an oppressive state. Less military spending and more social investments is the way to go if you want to prevent the US from turning into a backwater nation.
  - moomoo11 4y ago
    I agree from an optics pov but even with the capitol thing.. half the country and half the politicians elected by them think it wasn’t a big deal. Meanwhile everyone argues over it while.. Everything is in control, at least in my opinion. I’m just a simple tax payer, and honestly I trust the people who really run the country while laymen argue over dumb shit and our side vs that side etc.
    - cpursley 4y ago
      > I trust the people who really run the country Yikes.
      - moomoo11 4y ago
        Try growing up in a country where corruption is rampant, people die from religious and sectarian violence (sometimes sanctioned by the govt itself), and living without reliable electricity and water because the money was eaten by bribes and gangsters. Moved to the USA and it’s literally night and day. In a world full of dictatorships, corruption, and awful human rights, the USA is way better. Only an intellectually dishonest person who has never experienced hardship (getting laid off from a 400k tc job doesn’t count lmao) would think otherwise.
        iforgotpassword 4y ago
- bbor 4y ago
  Hmmm… I wonder why the country with the biggest military (and their Allies) is the only place rich enough not to be a backwater? I implore you to think how you might answer that question if you were born in such a backwater. Especially if it was a backwater where the US had recently used that military to significantly influence the government, such as Iran, 1953 Guatemala, 1954, Congo, 1960, Laos, 1960, Iraq, 1963, Brazil, 1964, British Guiana, 1964, Bolivia, 1964, Dominican Republic, 1965, Indonesia, 1965, Ghana, 1966, Greece, 1967, Cambodia, 1970, Bolivia, 1971, Chile, 1973, Australia, 1975, Portugal, 1976, Argentina, 1976, Jamaica, 1980, Turkey, 1980, Chad, 1982, Fiji, 1987, Nicaragua, 1987, Afghanistan, 1989, Panama, 1989, Bulgaria, 1990, Albania, 1991, Yugoslavia, 2000, Ecuador, 2000, Afghanistan, 2001, Venezuela, 2002, Iraq, 2003, Haiti, 2004, or Libya, 2011. Oo or Israel earlier this week. That said yeah definitely should’ve shot down that ballon over the Aleutians
  - moomoo11 4y ago
    My backwater nation was previously a British colony. Today people who look like me do their best to put other people who like me down. Massacres happen, people live like insects in awful conditions just trying to survive while govt and industrialists operate without any loyalty or care for the country. No wonder people try to immigrate out. The Americans kicked British empire back to their island in the 1700s and imo historically speaking makes me side with them. Especially considering they were successful in 1700s… and on their own with a strategic naval help from Marquis de Lafayette. Again in a world with awful horrible people at least America maintains the order for a far more important role - diplomacy through global trade. The only reason the world has gotten better for so many people all around the world is the last 70 years that America has completely dominated the world stage. Global trade, capitalism, and opening up has made the world objectively better. Even the communists practice capitalism. Or in America they work for Meta/Google/hi tech while pretending to be comrade. And it’s not like those countries were some hippie communes. They were extremely brutal to their own people in some cases, I mean go read about Asian or African histories from just this past 100 years. They did awful shit to their own people and with America nowhere in sight til WW2 Again the world isn’t perfect. You have to place your bets, and mine is that I don’t trust most of the other countries in the world to do better than what the USA has accomplished thus far. It’s why I personally choose to live in the USA when I have like 150+ choices to potentially choose.

404mm 4y ago

I don’t think they jammed it, considering how high it was. Intercepted .. I mean, China can use strong encryption too.

ttul 4y ago
US military aircraft can remotely destroy electronics aboard other aircraft by aiming a highly focused beam precisely onto it, thus disabling it. They do t have to decrypt anything. They just have to fry it.
- cma 4y ago
  A great way to study those capabilities then would be to send a trial balloon... We aren't goijg ti necessarily reveal intricate details of our capabilities like that.
- alanh 4y ago
  maybe but... it seems clear enough they did not do this given that it seems to have been piloted through a very nice high-value course across the US
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Weather balloons aren’t piloted. I don’t think it had any control planes at all, beyond just floating along atmospheric currents. At best they can control elevation? Ok, googling a bit: > Is it possible to steer or otherwise control a typical high-altitude balloon? It can be controlled, but let me be careful about what I mean by that. Balloons go with the wind. And so the only control that a balloon has is: in some balloons, you can control the altitude—you can make it go higher or lower. To the extent that the wind speed and direction varies with altitude, you can change the altitude, within some limits. And that can give you some measure of control—but not anywhere near the level of control that you have [with an airplane]. You can’t turn around and go the other direction; you can never go upwind in the balloon. You’re always going to be moving with the atmosphere that surrounds it. From https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-balloon-has-unexpected-maneuverability/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-ballo... So does that really count as piloting?

SergeAx 4y ago

FWIW, all comms of that balloon would be satellite. I don't think it is easy to jam, let alone intercept.

moomoo11 4y ago
I’m sure in 1970s nobody nobody thought GPS would become a reality within a decade. “They will never be able to pinpoint position that way!” My guy. It’s the United States military. All the shit we use is a by product of their first move. If it seems impossible today they’ve already figured it out. Not to mention they made a nuclear bomb and the Manhattan project was an insane achievement.
- gptgpp 4y ago
  Weird... Most groundbreaking research, and the consumer tech that eventually comes from it, seems to come out of post-secondary and tech/research companies. Crazy to think it's all a front and it's actually stemming from the US Military. Thank you for your service!
  - jakear 4y ago
    Not that crazy. Public knowledge, even. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Lincoln_Laboratory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Lincoln_Laboratory
    - gptgpp 4y ago
      Or... hear me out here... It's obviously a web of private R&D, public institutions like NASA, higher education, and yes, the military too. But acting like scientific innovation and technical progress is all, or even a majority due to the military is boot-licking weirdness. You have fun with that. I just don't know how you can look at the heaps of Nobel Prize winners, Turing Award, etc. or groundbreaking papers in almost and field and think "Oh yeah, must be the American Military is behind this."
      - 4y ago

sieabahlpark 4y ago

[dead]

fumeux_fume 4y ago

Had to lol at this one. Yeah, after they hacked the comms link and they were able to gain access to the master program.

moomoo11 4y ago
lol. Ok I’ll go along. And it turns out to be a node version 12 app :’D
pageandrew 4y ago
Its very possible that they could jam the radio frequencies the balloon uses. "Hacking the comms link", not so much, but neutering its ability to phone home... very possible.
- moomoo11 4y ago
  Yeah and it’s why hacked was the third option aka least likely. Not my fault people pick one thing out of a range of possibilities and fixate on it lol.
- Justin_K 4y ago
  Ya what if it uses cellular on a US sim? Are you going to jam all the cell spectrums?
  - iforgotpassword 4y ago
    Oh snap right, a US three letter agency telling a US mobile carrier to disable a US SIM sounds like an impossible feat. Well played, China!
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      Yes, it is a very high profile debate going on around here. That means, there are competent people commenting, but they get drown in other comments. People forget way too often, that you don't need to have an opinion on everything, or worse, share that opinion everywhere.

sgtnoodle 4y ago

I think you're being overly generous in attributing competency/capability. Just thinking about the physics of it, robustly jamming an unknown signal of a transmitter 60KM high seems like a rather impossible task. If the air force were somehow broadcasting several megawatts of broad spectrum noise over a populated area, somebody would have noticed. The authorities in charge have no real idea what's going on or what the payload is. This whole situation is just weird. Maybe it is just some irresponsible private organization. The Baidu equivalent of Project Loon?

SoylentYellow 4y ago
> If the air force were somehow broadcasting several megawatts of broad spectrum noise over a populated area, somebody would have noticed. Interesting that you think modern jamming works that way. It doesn't.
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  Barrage jamming very much is still used. Sometimes there is nothing else you can use.
- h0l0cube 4y ago
  Can you describe how it works?
moomoo11 4y ago
I mean TikTok / bytedance is just some irresponsible private organization. That is controlled by the CCP.
dr-detroit 4y ago
[dead]