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Donkey Kong cheating case rocked by photos of illicit joystick modification
- LocalH 4y agoMitchell very much seems to be losing his reality distortion field
- sschueller 4y agoI still find it hilarious that every time I see Billy Mitchell I think of Peter Dinklage's hilarious character in Pixels although the movie itself wasn't that great.
- jhbadger 4y agoI always think of Mitchell himself in 2007's "King of Kong" in which Mitchell was viewed as the villain (perhaps unfairly at the time) but he didn't do himself any favors in making himself seem like a sympathetic character.
- Waterluvian 4y agoI remember seeing that a long time ago. Is he the one who came across as a pretty bad husband and father?
- bhickey 4y ago> Is he the one who came across as a pretty bad husband and father? I don't think so. The film had footage of Steve Wiebe telling his kid he couldn't help with the potty because he was busy gaming.
- Waterluvian 4y agoOhh that rings a bell.
- tootie 4y agoHe was painted as the villain, but the filmmaker has been accused of editing the story to make him look worse than he was. He was definitely a hateable character, but a lot of the details and timeline were messed with.
- epistemer 4y agoI am sure there is an aspect of that but what made him look like such a jackass in the movie was his own words. Not to mention that he cheated and was the villain in reality.
- tootie 4y agoYeah he was not a great guy for sure but the reality would not have made for much of a movie.
- zimpenfish 4y agoAlthough, as the Spin-Off Doctors say in their recap of Chasing Ghosts[1], > "And again, [Mitchell is] not in it much, but when he's in it, he provides enough evidence that the stuff in King Of Kong was not all that fabricated when it comes to his attitude." (35:48.960 --> 35:59.600) [1] https://soundcloud.com/jimquisition/the-spin-off-doctors-chasing-ghosts https://soundcloud.com/jimquisition/the-spin-off-doctors-cha...
- etempleton 4y agoEven during the King of Kong days there was some suspicion around Billy Mitchell’s records(He had the uncanny ability to one up any one who broke his records almost immediately). There just wasn’t proof. The suspicion was perhaps heightened by the fact most people thought he was a jerk and wanted to see him taken down, except for his groupies who worshiped him. At this point, it is fairly conclusive that he has cheated in several instances.
- tee_0 4y ago[flagged]
- pcwalton 4y agoThen flag or ignore them? For me, the interesting story here isn't so much who got what record in a 42 year old arcade game but rather how frighteningly easy it remains to intimidate people over bogus nonsense by abusing the legal system. If rich weirdos suing for defamation over ancient video game scores doesn't motivate more adoption of anti-SLAPP statutes, I don't know what will.
- hijinks 4y agoI have a feeling he's lived this lie so long he just believes it as true at this point.
- jrockway 4y agoThis is one case that's warming me up to binding arbitration. I'd say that in an ideal world, we'd spend $0 of taxes on court disputes over video game cheating.
- SQueeeeeL 4y agoI mean, we spend lots of time using the legal system to resolve marital and land issues. Ultimately most legal issues are interpersonal issues, I don't see why the perception of a conflict as silly should preclude a judge from helping mediate
- jfengel 4y agoThis is a defamation case. There isn't really room for binding arbitration; there's no contract to bind.
- ketralnis 4y agoIt's rough because while I agree that I don't want to see a bunch of court time wasted on video game cheating, this isn't a case about video game cheating. It's a case about defamation, a defence to which is the accuracy of the claims (in some countries), and then yes suddenly it's a case about video game cheating. I do think that you should have legal remedies to defamation, and in most cases of defamation the two of you are unlikely to have had a prior contract that could have included an arbitration clause. (In this particular case they could potentially have but I suspect that's uncommon.)
- Y_Y 4y ago> The photos in question were taken at the Florida Association of Mortgage Brokers (FAMB) Convention, which hosted Mitchell as part of its "80s Arcade Night" promotion in July 2007. Seems like those guys had more money than they knew what to do with. Hope it turned out ok for them.
- phone8675309 4y agoOne of Billy Mitchel's childhood friends was a mortgage broker at that convention.
- Minor49er 4y agoSpeedrunner Karl Jobst made a good overview video of this last week. He is no stranger to Mitchell's shenanigans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHK0Jg2R7SQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHK0Jg2R7SQ
- bak3y 4y agoHe's also been sued by Mitchell - multiple times now I think?
- nubinetwork 4y agoTwice I believe, and possibly by Todd Rogers as well. Billy is/has also sued Twin Galaxies and Guinness.
- bhickey 4y agoKarl is wrong in his claim that the stick appears to be an 8-way stick. Directionality is determined by a restrictor plate mounted on the underside of joystick assembly. Here's an example: https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-controls/joystick-accessories/ultrastik-restrictor-plate-kit/ https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-controls/joystick-accessorie... It's impossible to tell which plate is installed by looking at the top of the panel. Edit: He does get some things right. My point is that this is surprisingly technical. Even some of the best players in the world don't know how the game works.
- psychphysic 4y agoEither way it's modified. More to the point the footage is consistent with 8-way movement. Then there's a picture of the modified machine. And the appearance is consistent with an 8 way... It's getting pretty sweaty
- bhickey 4y ago> Either way it's modified. Yep. The oldest rules I've seen require that the machine have an original stick. > More to the point the footage is consistent with 8-way movement Which footage? An eight way stick let's you barrel steer while ladder climbing. I don't believe that this will be detectable from looking at footage alone. > And the appearance is consistent with an 8 way. This is impossible to tell from the photographs. The restrictor plate is mounted on the underside of the joystick assembly.
- JustLurking2022 4y agoWhy are we still talking about this guy?
- RamRodification 4y agoBecause photos of illicit joystick modification rocked a Donkey Kong cheating case he is involved in. It's a very unique and interesting story.
- anonymousiam 4y agoLet's hope that the prevailing defamation defendant successfully moves for the plaintiff (Billy) to pay for their legal fees.
- Manuel_D 4y agoA similar debate exists in fighting games with all button controllers. Interestingly, the control stick ultimately actuates button contacts under the hood. But all button controllers can do things like simultaneously supply left and right activated inputs, or up and down and some games respond to these inputs in a way that gives players an advantage. That said, it'd be trivial to install electrical interlocks prohibiting such simultaneous inputs.
- bhickey 4y agoI built exactly this board for a homebrew (S)NES controller. Simultaneous L+R inputs are converted to neutral and U+D are converted to U. Even with the interlock a player can gain an advantage by buffering inputs.
- Manuel_D 4y agoBut theoretically someone quickly actuating a fight stick could buffer inputs all the same.
- anonymousiam 4y agoI haven't played much DK, but I do remember the stock joystick because it was annoying. You could move it in one of only four directions and there is a guide slot so you can't go directly from one direction to another -- you must move through zero first. The stick shown, regardless of whether or not it's an eight-way, may not have the same guide slot, the absence of which would provide a game play advantage.
- nostromo 4y agoI'm just amused that there was an actual lawsuit filed for defamation over Donkey Kong high scores.
- CTDOCodebases 4y agoIf you are interested there was a whole documentary made about the competitive world of Donkey Kong some time ago called "King of Kong".
- psychphysic 4y agoThis guy is the "King of Kong" from the doc.
- buzzerbetrayed 4y agoIt’s so satisfying to see Mitchell being bright to justice after having watched that documentary a decade ago. It was so frustrating to watch how his records were accepted back then.
- epistemer 4y agoMitchell being a cheat is the greatest thing ever. Just the most poetic and perfect ending to King of Kong. I feel bad that if someone watches it now for the first time they will never get that reveal years later.
- CTDOCodebases 4y agoYeah King of Kong needs an addendum.
- victor22 4y agoKing Kong serius business
- jakedata 4y ago[flagged]
- lbotos 4y ago> There exists a group of people for whom this matters enough to devote significant portions of their time, attention and money. Yes, This is how everything in the world works. And for the handful of people who sleuthed this out by spending time attention and money, there are others like me who said "huh, nice sleuthing." OSINT is a powerful thing. And someone else may study this from the defamation aspect: Is the case sound? Is there enough evidence? How do you handle that from both sides in court? And others may study the meta: Why do societies pay attention to these factors? Why do people like stories such as this? And others may concern themselves with just the drama. People care because there are many angles here that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity
- xen2xen1 4y agoI have all the same feelings about the Super Bowl, it's pointless and dumb, just a little ball. Who cares? Apparently lots of people do, worth billions of dollars.. Everyone needs a hobby.
- shultays 4y agoFrom your profile ... I like old records and old cars ... lol who cares. there are people hungry out there
- syngrog66 4y agoThe title reads like a Hacker News headline if it existed back in the 80s.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoWhy didn’t any of the people actually there not notice this? Did the ref guy not verify the game was stock and compliant? Other than looking dapper in the striped shirt isn’t that what he’s there to do? They’ve had photos of it for decades and physically stood staring at it and are crazy fanatics about donkey Kong and keep all their toys in box and mint since they were 3 and someone just now said “wait a minute!” That feels a little late to call cheating
- tssva 4y agoThe guy in the striped shirt is Ted Rodgers, a prolific video game record cheater in his own right, and as mentioned in the article the photos just became public last month.
- nubinetwork 4y agoThe "ref" in question is Todd Rogers, who also got caught cheating at other world records. https://youtu.be/PrH7aPmO61w https://youtu.be/PrH7aPmO61w
- Maursault 4y agoThe Washington Post[1] is somewhat less sensational about Todd Rogers' banning than Karl Jobst, and which seems to be primarily due to his apparently impossible Activision Dragster performance in 1982 on an Atari 2600. [1] https://archive.ph/qytIr https://archive.ph/qytIr
- nubinetwork 4y agoI don't like linking YouTube, but I've noticed the media usually writes their articles around videos that they also saw... might as well cut out the middleman. (This one didn't but meh)
- Maursault 4y agoThe video was more thorough, adding lots of background, but also sort of had that entertainment vibe of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. The Post article is more focused, but also narrower in scope.
- MiddleEndian 4y ago1. Click link 2. Immediately see a picture of Billy Mitchell Not even surprised.