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I have to say that I don't quite understand who can afford their hardware (I'm not talking quality or value for money , just absolute price). I remember consid

I have to say that I don't quite understand who can afford their hardware (I'm not talking quality or value for money , just absolute price). I remember considering to buy an iPhone the last time I had to replace my phone, then realizing that not only a more or less equivalent android phone would be significantly cheaper, but that the Apple phone was outrageously expensive. It was so expensive in comparison that I thought they were being greedy and didn't want to give them money !

anm89 4y ago
Easy, almost anyone can afford 36 $50 payments. Most fast food employees can afford that. On the other hand, I think as a country, an astonishing amount of people would be in a very bad spots if we head into an economic downturn.
- chii 4y ago
  > almost anyone can afford 36 $50 payments. Most fast food employees can afford that. except if those fast food employees ceases to be employees in a downturn. The problem is that taking on debt for consumable products is not a good financial decision. You don't need an iphone - you can live with a low-end android that could be had for less than $200.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Fast food usually picks up in downturns. It’s the fancier restaurants that lose business.
    - simplotek 4y ago
      I don't think it's right to assume that fast food jobs are a hallmark of job security.
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        The quote I was replying to was literally > except if those fast food employees ceases to be employees in a downturn Which just doesn’t happen in practice. I didn’t make any other claims in my comment.
    - LegitShady 4y ago
      the workers dont benefit from fast food picking up, just the owners, so fast food employees aren't buying iphones on the bet that its a fast food pick up time.
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        I worked at McDonald’s through one recession (early 90s) and it…gets busy. At least, fast food workers aren’t in danger of getting laid off during a recession (their business counter cycle’s recessions). See https://m.investing.com/analysis/chart-of-the-day-why-mcdonalds-defies-recession-200633500 https://m.investing.com/analysis/chart-of-the-day-why-mcdona...
        LegitShady 4y ago
        less danger in lay offs doesn't matter with inflation pushing up rents, food costs, transportation costs, etc. The issue isn't the risk of lay offs, its that they already didn't make much money and now everything is more expensive. The $1000-1500 phone goes from 'expensive luxury' to 'a financial threat for little reason' when there are cheaper alternatives.
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        That has nothing to do with the recession however: if anything recessions act to decrease inflation or even cause deflation. That’s why it’s counter cycle: being a fast food worker still isn’t great, but recessions lead to some small benefits.
- slaw 4y ago
  My iPhone 13 was stolen after 11 months of use, so it was $880/11=$80 a month for me. I switched to Android, because Apple got rid of sim cards in newest iPhones.
  - dahdum 4y ago
    > I switched to Android, because Apple got rid of sim cards in newest iPhones. I was worried about the lack of sim card on the new iPhone due to travel but looking around I found many online eSIM providers. Easier than finding a local provider and you can get regional/global ones too. May I ask what your use case is? Is it local phone numbers where country regulations prevent eSIM voice? That's the only downside I found but not relevant to my needs.
    - slaw 4y ago
      Local sim cards have very affordable data plans, also local number is often required for local services like PassApp transportation in Cambodia. For 199 baht/6USD I got 20 GB of data in Thailand. With international eSIM you may be behind double NAT and VPN may not work. My company VPN was not accessible. https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Thailand https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Thailand
lotsofpulp 4y ago
I have the opposite perception of prices. I can buy a $700 to $1,000 iPhone 13 mini or iPhone 13, and I know it will work well and receive software updates for at least 5 years. I know this because of many years of experience, and I am using an iPhone XS from 2018 right now. My wife used an iPhone 6 from 2014 to 2018, and we still use it as a baby monitor, I used an iPhone 6S Plus from 2015 to 2020, and my daughter uses a 2020 iPhone SE. My mom uses an iPhone XR from 2018. The point is, I have lots of data on iPhone (and MacBook Air) longevity, so I trust them. On the other hand, I still have no idea if any Android phone vendor offers software updates for more than a couple years, much less if the phone actually continues to work well. I had a string of bad experiences between Nexus and Xperia devices from 2011 to 2015, so I learned my lesson then. The amortized cost for me is much less than any alternative Android.
- clnq 4y ago
  > The amortized cost for me is much less than any alternative Android. I think that with the trade-in program, I've spent a similar amount between 2016 and now upgrading to flagship OnePlus phones every year-ish. The software updates have been good. For example, OnePlus 8 series were the first non-Google smartphones to receive Android 13. They were about 2 years old at the time. The bathtub curve of reliability applies to smartphones as it does to most electronics. The "infant mortality" failures can be covered by manufacturer warranty pretty well. But the "wear out" failures go up a lot in electronics after the first few years in my experience (with both Apple and other brands). In case of Apple, battery degradation and a bunch of build quality "-gates" come to mind. So there is value in upgrading one's smartphone every year or two, ecology aside. I could do that with OnePlus phones but it might have been much too expensive for me to do it with iPhones.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Upgrading every year is all cost to me. It has been many years since iPhones are sufficiently good, that I do not care enough about the marginal increases in speed/battery/screen/camera. If I have to spend any effort and time erasing my old phone and restoring a new one, and then doing the work to trade it in, is cost I would rather not incur. I am also not aware of any battery-gate degradation issues. Around a thousand charge cycles, every 3 years maybe, I pay to get the battery replaced at Apple or Best Buy.
rcarr 4y ago
From the day of release, you get about seven years before you stop being able to upgrade to the latest iOS version. Say you pay £800 for the phone and keep it for the full seven years, that works out at about 32p a day. For something that is increasingly integral to modern day life, that's a pretty good deal. That's also not accounting for the fact that you could sell it on for between £50 - £100 or keep it as a fully functioning device for a few more years, both of which make it even more economical. Add on the fact that you generally get tighter security and higher quality applications because there's more money floating about in the ecosystem which attracts more devs then, if you can afford it, it's a no brainer in my opinion.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
liminalsunset 4y ago
I personally buy a used Pro Max device with some warranty left for close to $1000 CAD (~750 USD USD) one year after it's released e.g. I'm using the 13 Pro Max now, which I bought after the 14 Pro Max was released. One year later, I repeat this process, and sell the old one for about $850 CAD (~650 USD). Under this system, I can "subscribe" for the second newest iPhone perpetually for $8.33 USD per month. Compared to the price of lunch, a parking pass, or even the service itself, this is negligible. I still have the warranty, so if something goes wrong I can still go to the Apple Store to have it replaced, and even though the hardware is not the newest, all of the firmware bugs have been totally worked out.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

anm89 4y ago

Easy, almost anyone can afford 36 $50 payments. Most fast food employees can afford that. On the other hand, I think as a country, an astonishing amount of people would be in a very bad spots if we head into an economic downturn.

chii 4y ago
> almost anyone can afford 36 $50 payments. Most fast food employees can afford that. except if those fast food employees ceases to be employees in a downturn. The problem is that taking on debt for consumable products is not a good financial decision. You don't need an iphone - you can live with a low-end android that could be had for less than $200.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Fast food usually picks up in downturns. It’s the fancier restaurants that lose business.
  - simplotek 4y ago
    I don't think it's right to assume that fast food jobs are a hallmark of job security.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      The quote I was replying to was literally > except if those fast food employees ceases to be employees in a downturn Which just doesn’t happen in practice. I didn’t make any other claims in my comment.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    the workers dont benefit from fast food picking up, just the owners, so fast food employees aren't buying iphones on the bet that its a fast food pick up time.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      I worked at McDonald’s through one recession (early 90s) and it…gets busy. At least, fast food workers aren’t in danger of getting laid off during a recession (their business counter cycle’s recessions). See https://m.investing.com/analysis/chart-of-the-day-why-mcdonalds-defies-recession-200633500 https://m.investing.com/analysis/chart-of-the-day-why-mcdona...
      - LegitShady 4y ago
        less danger in lay offs doesn't matter with inflation pushing up rents, food costs, transportation costs, etc. The issue isn't the risk of lay offs, its that they already didn't make much money and now everything is more expensive. The $1000-1500 phone goes from 'expensive luxury' to 'a financial threat for little reason' when there are cheaper alternatives.
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        That has nothing to do with the recession however: if anything recessions act to decrease inflation or even cause deflation. That’s why it’s counter cycle: being a fast food worker still isn’t great, but recessions lead to some small benefits.
slaw 4y ago
My iPhone 13 was stolen after 11 months of use, so it was $880/11=$80 a month for me. I switched to Android, because Apple got rid of sim cards in newest iPhones.
- dahdum 4y ago
  > I switched to Android, because Apple got rid of sim cards in newest iPhones. I was worried about the lack of sim card on the new iPhone due to travel but looking around I found many online eSIM providers. Easier than finding a local provider and you can get regional/global ones too. May I ask what your use case is? Is it local phone numbers where country regulations prevent eSIM voice? That's the only downside I found but not relevant to my needs.
  - slaw 4y ago
    Local sim cards have very affordable data plans, also local number is often required for local services like PassApp transportation in Cambodia. For 199 baht/6USD I got 20 GB of data in Thailand. With international eSIM you may be behind double NAT and VPN may not work. My company VPN was not accessible. https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Thailand https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Thailand

lotsofpulp 4y ago

I have the opposite perception of prices. I can buy a $700 to $1,000 iPhone 13 mini or iPhone 13, and I know it will work well and receive software updates for at least 5 years. I know this because of many years of experience, and I am using an iPhone XS from 2018 right now. My wife used an iPhone 6 from 2014 to 2018, and we still use it as a baby monitor, I used an iPhone 6S Plus from 2015 to 2020, and my daughter uses a 2020 iPhone SE. My mom uses an iPhone XR from 2018. The point is, I have lots of data on iPhone (and MacBook Air) longevity, so I trust them. On the other hand, I still have no idea if any Android phone vendor offers software updates for more than a couple years, much less if the phone actually continues to work well. I had a string of bad experiences between Nexus and Xperia devices from 2011 to 2015, so I learned my lesson then. The amortized cost for me is much less than any alternative Android.

clnq 4y ago
> The amortized cost for me is much less than any alternative Android. I think that with the trade-in program, I've spent a similar amount between 2016 and now upgrading to flagship OnePlus phones every year-ish. The software updates have been good. For example, OnePlus 8 series were the first non-Google smartphones to receive Android 13. They were about 2 years old at the time. The bathtub curve of reliability applies to smartphones as it does to most electronics. The "infant mortality" failures can be covered by manufacturer warranty pretty well. But the "wear out" failures go up a lot in electronics after the first few years in my experience (with both Apple and other brands). In case of Apple, battery degradation and a bunch of build quality "-gates" come to mind. So there is value in upgrading one's smartphone every year or two, ecology aside. I could do that with OnePlus phones but it might have been much too expensive for me to do it with iPhones.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Upgrading every year is all cost to me. It has been many years since iPhones are sufficiently good, that I do not care enough about the marginal increases in speed/battery/screen/camera. If I have to spend any effort and time erasing my old phone and restoring a new one, and then doing the work to trade it in, is cost I would rather not incur. I am also not aware of any battery-gate degradation issues. Around a thousand charge cycles, every 3 years maybe, I pay to get the battery replaced at Apple or Best Buy.

rcarr 4y ago

From the day of release, you get about seven years before you stop being able to upgrade to the latest iOS version. Say you pay £800 for the phone and keep it for the full seven years, that works out at about 32p a day. For something that is increasingly integral to modern day life, that's a pretty good deal. That's also not accounting for the fact that you could sell it on for between £50 - £100 or keep it as a fully functioning device for a few more years, both of which make it even more economical. Add on the fact that you generally get tighter security and higher quality applications because there's more money floating about in the ecosystem which attracts more devs then, if you can afford it, it's a no brainer in my opinion.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

liminalsunset 4y ago

I personally buy a used Pro Max device with some warranty left for close to $1000 CAD (~750 USD USD) one year after it's released e.g. I'm using the 13 Pro Max now, which I bought after the 14 Pro Max was released. One year later, I repeat this process, and sell the old one for about $850 CAD (~650 USD). Under this system, I can "subscribe" for the second newest iPhone perpetually for $8.33 USD per month. Compared to the price of lunch, a parking pass, or even the service itself, this is negligible. I still have the warranty, so if something goes wrong I can still go to the Apple Store to have it replaced, and even though the hardware is not the newest, all of the firmware bugs have been totally worked out.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]