6 ms·

There's one more layer, though: making you believe the streets aren't safe and we're not arresting enough people is the actual point of all this. America alread

by JackC 4y ago

There's one more layer, though: making you believe the streets aren't safe and we're not arresting enough people is the actual point of all this. America already locks up four times as many people as most countries, to little purpose besides control and profit.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
> to little purpose besides control and profit. It only takes a few times getting mugged, being subject to a car smash and grab, or being porch pirated to go from "we lock too many people up!" to "why aren't we locking these crazy people up?". We are obviously messing up somewhere else before we throw people in jail.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  Locking more people up only helps if you lock the right people up. Otherwise you might as well randomly pick them off the streets (but maybe that’s already what is happening).
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    It is kind of obvious that the guy who beat an Amazon employee in Beltown with a bat should be in jail right now, but they are considering releasing him [1]. You can walk out of a Target with a 65" TV and get bail with outstanding warrants [2]. I don't think Seattle is locking anyone up right now, to be honest, unless murder is involved. [1] https://mynorthwest.com/3777835/rantz-brutal-bat-attack-suspect-could-be-released-before-trial/ https://mynorthwest.com/3777835/rantz-brutal-bat-attack-susp... [2] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10447987/Prolific-shoplifter-steals-70inch-TV-22nd-Target-theft-released-judge.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10447987/Prolific-s...
    - ninjagoo 4y ago
      Conservative Talk Radio and the Daily Mail? Really? Do you have any better sourcing (a.k.a more reliable sourcing) for these examples?
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        You could just read the Seattle times, no secrets here, but it is pay walled. Definitely conservatives pointing out these problems is the best way to get votes in ultra liberal Seattle, and they don’t need to make anything up. It isn't going to change us into Trump voters, but it can sway local elections.
  - overrun11 4y ago
    Have you ever been to a prison? It’s not a randomly selected group. The majority of prisoners are in for serious violent offenses, easily confirmed by looking at the data or speaking to anyone who works in a prison.
laweijfmvo 4y ago
Imagine if the streets were safe and we didn't need to keep funding so many insanely powerful police! Yikes! /s
- MSFT_Edging 4y ago
  We'd suddenly have a lot more gangs with firearm training roaming the streets after layoffs. That'll show us.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    Firearm training of police is laughable and probably worse than the casual shooter who goes to a range once a month. The average cop probably quals once a year with his glock 19 and spends the rest of the year stroking it thinking about how he's billy badass because he has a badge. You can watch the videos, any real resistance and they go back screaming asking for 10 of their buddies to do the spray and pray. When they were hunting Dorner they were even unloading full standard mags on random trucks just loosely fitting the description and still not managing to incapacitate the occupants. LAPD officers were guarding one of the officers on Dorner's manifesto hit list on Feb. 7, 2013 when a blue Toyota pickup truck allegedly matching the suspect's vehicle drove up to the scene. Police opened fire and aimed at least 100 rounds at the occupants of the truck who they mistakenly believed to be Dorner's. Two women were delivering newspapers on Feb. 7, 2013, when LAPD officers guarding the Torrance home of a target named in an online manifesto blasted at least 100 rounds. Margie Carranza and her mother, Emma Hernandez, were wounded and rushed to local hospitals. Carranza suffered a minor bullet wound, and Hernandez was shot twice in the back and reported in stable condition.
    - MSFT_Edging 4y ago
      Sorry, I meant in comparison to teenagers with switches on their glocks. Cops are crap with their guns, but generally better than someone who has never trained at all and is waiting for a chance to shoot at something for the first time. I'm well aware of the American hero, Chris Dorner, who exposed LAPD and genuinely made them feel fear that they may see consequence for the first time. His methods are up for debate but he's done something only lies about fentanyl has been able to do.
projektfu 4y ago
The subtext is that the police don't do anything to prevent crime. You alone are responsible for what happens to you. And if you would choose willingly to do something the police officers think you shouldn't do, you deserve arrest.
overrun11 4y ago
I think you’d see substantially more crime if the US incarcerated less people. The evidence is clear, released prisoners have a much higher rate of violent crime than the average person. I’m sort of confused where this meme that prisons don’t keep us safe comes from. Removing people who commit violent crimes from the public should obviously decrease crime and I’ve never really heard a convincing counter argument. Usually when people make this claim they’re just badly misinformed and believe most prisoners are in jail for marijuana possession.
dfxm12 4y ago
Convincing people the streets aren't safe also helps ensure police budgets keep going up year after year. https://abcnews.go.com/US/defunding-claims-police-funding-increased-us-cities/story?id=91511971 https://abcnews.go.com/US/defunding-claims-police-funding-in...

by JackC 4y ago

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

> to little purpose besides control and profit. It only takes a few times getting mugged, being subject to a car smash and grab, or being porch pirated to go from "we lock too many people up!" to "why aren't we locking these crazy people up?". We are obviously messing up somewhere else before we throw people in jail.

Aeolun 4y ago
Locking more people up only helps if you lock the right people up. Otherwise you might as well randomly pick them off the streets (but maybe that’s already what is happening).
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  It is kind of obvious that the guy who beat an Amazon employee in Beltown with a bat should be in jail right now, but they are considering releasing him [1]. You can walk out of a Target with a 65" TV and get bail with outstanding warrants [2]. I don't think Seattle is locking anyone up right now, to be honest, unless murder is involved. [1] https://mynorthwest.com/3777835/rantz-brutal-bat-attack-suspect-could-be-released-before-trial/ https://mynorthwest.com/3777835/rantz-brutal-bat-attack-susp... [2] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10447987/Prolific-shoplifter-steals-70inch-TV-22nd-Target-theft-released-judge.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10447987/Prolific-s...
  - ninjagoo 4y ago
    Conservative Talk Radio and the Daily Mail? Really? Do you have any better sourcing (a.k.a more reliable sourcing) for these examples?
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      You could just read the Seattle times, no secrets here, but it is pay walled. Definitely conservatives pointing out these problems is the best way to get votes in ultra liberal Seattle, and they don’t need to make anything up. It isn't going to change us into Trump voters, but it can sway local elections.
- overrun11 4y ago
  Have you ever been to a prison? It’s not a randomly selected group. The majority of prisoners are in for serious violent offenses, easily confirmed by looking at the data or speaking to anyone who works in a prison.

laweijfmvo 4y ago

Imagine if the streets were safe and we didn't need to keep funding so many insanely powerful police! Yikes! /s

MSFT_Edging 4y ago
We'd suddenly have a lot more gangs with firearm training roaming the streets after layoffs. That'll show us.
- notch898a 4y ago
  Firearm training of police is laughable and probably worse than the casual shooter who goes to a range once a month. The average cop probably quals once a year with his glock 19 and spends the rest of the year stroking it thinking about how he's billy badass because he has a badge. You can watch the videos, any real resistance and they go back screaming asking for 10 of their buddies to do the spray and pray. When they were hunting Dorner they were even unloading full standard mags on random trucks just loosely fitting the description and still not managing to incapacitate the occupants. LAPD officers were guarding one of the officers on Dorner's manifesto hit list on Feb. 7, 2013 when a blue Toyota pickup truck allegedly matching the suspect's vehicle drove up to the scene. Police opened fire and aimed at least 100 rounds at the occupants of the truck who they mistakenly believed to be Dorner's. Two women were delivering newspapers on Feb. 7, 2013, when LAPD officers guarding the Torrance home of a target named in an online manifesto blasted at least 100 rounds. Margie Carranza and her mother, Emma Hernandez, were wounded and rushed to local hospitals. Carranza suffered a minor bullet wound, and Hernandez was shot twice in the back and reported in stable condition.
  - MSFT_Edging 4y ago
    Sorry, I meant in comparison to teenagers with switches on their glocks. Cops are crap with their guns, but generally better than someone who has never trained at all and is waiting for a chance to shoot at something for the first time. I'm well aware of the American hero, Chris Dorner, who exposed LAPD and genuinely made them feel fear that they may see consequence for the first time. His methods are up for debate but he's done something only lies about fentanyl has been able to do.

projektfu 4y ago

The subtext is that the police don't do anything to prevent crime. You alone are responsible for what happens to you. And if you would choose willingly to do something the police officers think you shouldn't do, you deserve arrest.

overrun11 4y ago

I think you’d see substantially more crime if the US incarcerated less people. The evidence is clear, released prisoners have a much higher rate of violent crime than the average person. I’m sort of confused where this meme that prisons don’t keep us safe comes from. Removing people who commit violent crimes from the public should obviously decrease crime and I’ve never really heard a convincing counter argument. Usually when people make this claim they’re just badly misinformed and believe most prisoners are in jail for marijuana possession.

dfxm12 4y ago

Convincing people the streets aren't safe also helps ensure police budgets keep going up year after year. https://abcnews.go.com/US/defunding-claims-police-funding-increased-us-cities/story?id=91511971 https://abcnews.go.com/US/defunding-claims-police-funding-in...