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Not an American, just a human being, but I was not brought into this world to work for 60 years in a job I only tolerate and then die. Forget that. That idea ma
by lethologica 4y ago
Not an American, just a human being, but I was not brought into this world to work for 60 years in a job I only tolerate and then die. Forget that. That idea makes me sick to my stomach when I think about it. I am a human being and I am capable of so much more than I can even imagine. We all are. It’s a shame so much of us are forced to spend the best parts of our lives chained to a desk.
- nxmnxm99 4y ago[flagged]
- OnlineGladiator 4y agoThe guy you described sounds a lot more interesting than a desk jockey.
- elzbardico 4y agoAt the bare minimum, he enjoys life more.
- nxmnxm99 4y agoSpoken like someone who hasn’t met people like that. They’re significantly more one dimensional than the wage slave tbh. At least the wage slave has the character of resentment.
- gnulinux 4y agoThese kind of comments are so heartbreaking. Is this really what you think humans are without work? You think people would just resort to hedonism, and addiction if not for corporations who kindly introduce order in our lives? When I look at humanity I see art, science, passion, inspiration, admiration and curiosity. If people didn't have to work 60 hours a week, they would be artists, parents, lovers, researchers etc... I'm truly, truly sad that not all of believe in this. I deeply apologize for this possibly snarky, irrelevant comment, maybe it shouldn't be allowed. I just wanted to offer my perspective.
- WalterBright 4y agoThere's a famous story about a man who dies, and wakes up in a place, where a servant appears and says he can have anything he wants, anything. He just has to ask. After some time with this, the man grows bored. He complains to the servant, saying heaven is not interesting. The servant replies that he's not in heaven.
- OnlineGladiator 4y agoJust because you love your work doesn't mean everybody else does. I would much rather have the servant than be the servant.
- WalterBright 4y agoI suggest thinking more about it. What would you do if anything you wanted you could effortlessly and instantly have? It'd be hell.
- OnlineGladiator 4y agoI've thought about it plenty and I wholeheartedly disagree. Fuck working if you don't have to. My idea of hell is being forced to work. I suggest you think more about how other people might fundamentally disagree with you.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ceres 4y ago> week, they would be artists, parents, lovers, researchers And who would 1. Pave your roads 2. Keep you safe 3. Care for you when you’re old 4. Keep the electric grid running 5. Etc Modern society works because there’s a bunch of people who do things they don’t like. The alternative is that we all go back to being hunter gatherers.
- 4y ago
- WalterBright 4y agoOn the other hand, people often die shortly after retiring. It's because we have evolved to struggle. Leading a life of indolence and sloth is not healthy for the body or mind. Want to do so much more? Go do it!
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y agoThe leisure class lived longer than average in the UK - and mostly didn't "work".
- WalterBright 4y agoThey may have been doing a different kind of work.
- _aavaa_ 4y agoYes, the kind of “work” that they were interested in. That they did because they enjoyed, not because they need a roof over their heads or progress in a rat race. This kind of “work” wasn’t done with a primary goal of getting money. Dare I say, it was a “hobby”.
- WalterBright 4y agoIt is entirely possible to have a job that you enjoy and get paid for. Most of the jobs I've had I enjoyed very much and was paid well for them. And yeah, I needed the money to put a roof over my head, too. If you hate your job, think about upgrading your job skills to get a job that you would like.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y agoIt's also entirely possible to just do things you enjoy and not die, too.
- _aavaa_ 4y agoI'm glad that's the case for you. I also am aiming for that. But we also have to acknowledge that simply is not true for a sizeable portion of the population.
- luckylion 4y agoI think the important question is: are you okay with significantly lower wealth / quality of life, or are you saying "I don't want to work so hard (but somebody else should, because I sure do like all the things we have in this society)"?
- Tostino 4y agoI don't think it's an either/or situation if we sit down and really think about it. If those employed in fields that are ostensibly rent-seeking were to do something that wasn't a net negative on the economy, maybe we'd be able to share the burden a little more fairly.
- luckylion 4y agoYeah, but probably not. Very few people want a humble shelter and 2000kcal a day. Most want large apartments, entertainment, restaurants, travel, hotels, social media sites to discuss articles about 'workism' etc etc. And somebody has to build and run all those things so they can enjoy them. The hermits going to Alaska with an axe, a saw, and a dream to build a small cabin and live off the land and watch the bears catch salmon, those are certainly ready to make that trade. But your average Western academic talking about work-life-balance? I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, but it'd be a first.
- WalterBright 4y agoThose Alaska hermits who build their own cabins work damn hard to survive doing that.
- magicalist 4y ago> But your average Western academic talking about work-life-balance Yes, the adjunct professor, famous for their work-life-balance.
- Dylan16807 4y ago> Most want large apartments, entertainment, restaurants, travel, hotels, social media sites to discuss articles about 'workism' etc etc. And somebody has to build and run all those things so they can enjoy them. One solid income used to buy an entire house. Why can't I want to work less and still have a large apartment? And that's without even considering productivity gains. People can budget for entertainment without long work weeks. I don't demand much in terms of restaurants and travel and hotels, shrug. Websites are not expensive to run, and the cost of social media if directly paid for would be single digit dollars a month. Negligible in terms of someone's entire budget.
- myth_drannon 4y agoWell it's been like this since the dawn of humanity. The whole expulsion of Adam and Eve from Garden of Eden story. " in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you and you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken;"
- RajT88 4y ago> Well it's been like this since the dawn of humanity. I mean - hunter gatherer societies usually had all their food gathering and chores done in just a few hours a day. Spending the rest of their time doing all those things humans like to do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-gatherer#Social_and_economic_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-gatherer#Social_and_eco... We could probably figure out how to remove inefficiencies from the markets and have 20 hour workweeks, if enough of us wanted to.
- kaczordon 4y agoOk, no one is stopping you from starting your own business and doing whatever you want. Also not everyone is capable of everything, if you're short you're not going to be in the NBA...
- balderdash 4y agoIt seems like you were in fact brought into this world with the expectation that you make your own way and provide for yourself. Unless it’s your expectation that others do that for you or your parents have already provided for you
- bobkazamakis 4y agoCould billionaires just pay taxes please?
- gretch 4y ago1) they should 2) they do: elon paid ~$10B in 2021 https://reason.com/2022/04/26/no-elon-musk-didnt-pay-a-3-27-percent-tax-rate/ https://reason.com/2022/04/26/no-elon-musk-didnt-pay-a-3-27-... 3) if all billionaires in the US liquidated absolutely all personal wealth and evenly distributed it, what would happen? 720 billionaires * 10B average wealth / 300M US population = 24k USD per person 1 time payment Covid stimulus was like, 9k ish depending on your bracketing? So just imagine 2 or 3 covid payments. The conclusion should be that it's not going to change the fabric of how life in America functions. It's certainly not gonna grant GP commenter the ability to chill and paint for the rest of their lives.
- balderdash 4y agoKind of depressing to see someone downvoted for stating the facts.
- granshaw 4y agoYeah the “boo capitalism” and “F all rich people” rhetoric has really gotten tiresome
- serverholic 4y agoNow do the same for corporations. I'm sure it'll come out to more than that per person.
- mc32 4y agoWe've been "chained to our desks" for all of our humanity till very recently. There was not time in which a common person did not have to do drudgery to get on with life. So it is a luxury and a privilege to not have to. But it is still a historical exception. I will grant you that there were some low seasons, in some places where the pace abated. But remember, at sundown, things stopped. You had to do whatever it was you did while there was sunlight. Fire was mostly for cooking.
- serverholic 4y agoWhy do we have to keep chained to them though? Why shouldn’t the goal be to liberate people so they can do what they wish with their time?
- genericone 4y agoCynically, people don't want to be liberated, people want to be better than the neighbor they don't like, to have what they have, and to have what they don't have, and that gets them through day to day
- mc32 4y agoI somewhat agree with you, but if anything, the pandemic has highlighted that people need purpose, else they while away their time and do unproductive stuff. They don't pursue their passions and become a maker or artist or artisan, no, they get on TikTok or some MMORPG or whatever strikes their LARPing fancy. Very few take the opportunity to "cultivate' themselves.
- polygamous_bat 4y agoIf you give a starving person a three-star michelin dinner, I don't think they would appreciate it properly. You need to be well-fed to appreciate the subtlety and the beauty of the meal. Similarly, people who don't have much free time may waste what little free time they get -- only when they have enough might they be able to figure out how to "properly" enjoy it.
- 4y ago
- moonchrome 4y agoThat attitude is so delusional it's hilarious. Sorry but your ancestors were regularly getting eaten alive by wild animals a few generations back (heck it's still an existential threat to some people). People had to resort to canibalism to survive famines. Plague, TB, polio. Just a hundred years ago there was ~1 in 100 chance a woman would die during childbirth. >40% of kids would not live to age of 5 in 1800s The only reason you were brought into this world is because your ancestors went through shit you can't even imagine, had children, some of which survived to eventually have you.
- applwtr 4y agoThank you for this.
- xkqd 4y agoI think a lot of us would agree we’d get more fulfillment with fighting off those wild animals and going through through that shit than cranking out Jira tickets and moving them between columns.
- molsongolden 4y agoIf this is true then living through hardship is still possible. There are places in the world with very low living standards and it's possible to move and live there. The military still exists. Working long shifts and living in man camps at the fringes of the developed world still exists. I've done this thought exercise many times, traveled extensively, and continue trying different types of work. The truth is that most of us (HN users) have pretty comfortable lives and would be making huge quality of life sacrifices to live the dream of the romanticized past. There is definitely something to sort out around "what does the high paid knowledge worker do when they no longer have hardship defining their life for them" but I don't know if artificially handicapping yourself and LARPing struggle is the answer. If you do find the answer then please let me know.
- unforeseen9991 4y agoI think the biggest error is mistaking comfort for happiness. If you aren't happy in your current position you have two choices. You either choose to solve the problem and start taking steps, or you choose to be distracted from the problem. I know the best times of my life is when I got outside of my comfort zone. Fear is a cage. The only way out, is through.
- brazzy 4y agoThis is what we in Germany call "whining on a high level". The universe doesn't owe you a life of leasure and following your passions and lofty ideals. It doesn't even owe you a life free of starvation and debiliating sickness, yet that is what you and far, far more people today have, compared to pretty much any time in the past. A 5 day work week of 40 hours desk work is very light compared to what people 100 or 200 years ago had. Labor unions fought very hard for it. There's memes about medieval peasants working only 150 days a year, but those are bullshit (that is the work they had to do for someone else before they could start to make their own food and necessities). Allegedly, hunter-gatherer societies really did a lot less of what could be called work, but often had to compete violently for hunting grounds or face starvation, and didn't have all that much opportunity to test their creative capabilities either. If you want to show that you're capable of so much more, go ahead and find a way to do it. I can pretty much promise you that it will involve working more, not less. Or if you want to fix inequality so that everyone has to work less to make a living, fine, very commendable, I totally agree that is a desirable outcome. But I can also guarantee that people will still have work, and not that much less than now. so please stop whining like a spoiled child.
- granshaw 4y agoIronic given working conditions, protections, and benefits are so much better in Germany than the US today
- serverholic 4y agoSpare me. Life being shitty yesterday doesn't mean it shouldn't be better tomorrow. Btw, that 5 day work week was fought for by people who were ALSO likely called spoiled children at the time.
- dnissley 4y agoInteresting how this comment really brought out the "just be grateful you don't have to deal with the horrible things people did in the past" replies. A reminder: the people in the past who went through these things and strived for something more (like the above commenter) are a big part of the reason we have it so easy today.
- hgs3 4y ago> A reminder: the people in the past who went through these things and strived for something more (like the above commenter) are a big part of the reason we have it so easy today. Agreed. Advancements happen because someone somewhere was dissatisfied with the status quo. It's a prerequisite.
- Turing_Machine 4y ago> Advancements happen because someone somewhere was dissatisfied with the status quo. Well, because someone was dissatisfied with the status quo and did something about it. Just complaining doesn't count.
- brazzy 4y agoExcept the above commenter shows absolutely no signs of striving, they're just complaining on a very abstract level how wrong it all is.
- SideQuark 4y ago>I am a human being and I am capable of so much more than I can even imagine. We all are. It’s a shame so much of us are forced to spend the best parts of our lives chained to a desk. No one's forcing you to do anything. Do all that "so much more". The problem is then you might want food and shelter and goods and medicine - the results of other's labor. To get that you will have to provide them things of value, i.e., the result of your labor in some form. If you can do "so much more" then do it and trade for the other things you cannot make. The reality is that to produce things others want so you can trade for things you want takes work, and that work is not simply having all the fun you feel like every moment.
- dennis_jeeves1 4y agoLol, seems like a lot of people missed your point.
- sershe 4y ago> Not an American You sure sound like one, by the level of entitlement ;) So I take it you provide your own food, build your own home, and do your own healthcare; or find volunteers who love their jobs to do them for you? I hear farming wheat, putting up drywall and examining rashes are jobs that people "only tolerate", it's not generally a calling. > I am a human being and I am capable of so much more than I can even imagine Do you happen to be capable of anything useful to other people, as defined by other people themselves? If yes, is it as part of a job you only tolerate, or as part of "so much more"?
- hpen 4y agoInteresting when I didn’t like my job of one year I worked in my skill set and moved to another. Guess I could have just stuck with that for 60 years.