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> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more c

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to behave as eunuchs, and all prospects of romance are to be extinguished. Then wonder why marriage and fertility rates are tanking.

gnicholas 4y ago
That wasn't my reading. It seemed like the instructor was not thrilled that her course was being audited by showboaters, who were interested in meeting/impressing women as opposed to learning.
- vermilingua 4y ago
  “College students taking social classes with no intention of learning” is not exactly headline material though.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    I got the sense it was an academic class, not a social class. Also, most students who take classes with no interest in learning would either skip class or keep their mouths shut. The problem here is that they're degrading the learning environment for others.
    - vermilingua 4y ago
      100 level classes barely qualify as academic, and we must have had very different academic experiences if you believe that “most students… with no intention of learning… keep their mouths shut”. There has always been a population of students that attend college/uni with seemingly no higher goal than scoring and making life worse for everyone around them. The only interesting development here is that the published diversity data has allowed them to finally create Scumbaggery as a Service.
    - onepointsixC 4y ago
      Are they actually? Providing tutoring and help doesn't seem to degrade the learning environment.
    - troupe 4y ago
      I think her argument would have been stronger if she had of listed more details about how the academic environment is being degraded. Upperclassmen helping with labs and offering to tutor some students doesn't immediately make it clear how it is making it harder for students to learn. If there are students in the class who need help but don't want to go to the upperclassmen, then I'd assume the professor would have more time to help them. Overall I'm curious if the class is doing better or worse than previous classes.
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
eh, there's really no good signal for women to display that says "hey, i'm open to being hit on right now" or "please don't hit on me right now"
- personjerry 4y ago
  THE DEFAULT IS "please don't hit on me right now"
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    What can be accepted as “it’s okay to hit on me right now”? I don’t disagree with your assertion btw. Determining collective social etiquette can be challenging, and I’m always interested in other perspectives to better understand other humans in general.
    - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
      > I don’t disagree with your assertion btw, I’ve dated several coworkers years ago but have never been in a situation where me showing interest was indicated to be unwelcome How close to the truth is this as a different take on your situation: "you slowly hit on them, and they wanted it, so they didn't report you to HR/make it a big deal"?
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        I would assume that if you indicate interest and the other person declines, you never bring it up again and you treat them no different than if you had never asked, that’s appropriate? I’d like to think that, at the topic’s core, it’s about empathy and respect for the other person and adults are still adults who can make decisions when there isn’t a power differential (peers, not in a reporting chain). My question is genuine though and stands: when is it okay to communicate interest in someone? If the answer is never, it doesn’t impact me, it just feels very telling with the times (third places evaporating, and most people spend most of their time outside the home at work). If there is a line, I’m curious where that line is, not to leverage it but to respect it. “Don’t be a dick” but you’ve still gotta put yourself out there if you want optimize for luck and possibility. To handle rejection with grace is key, which comes from emotional maturity. > Data from 2017 shows that as many as one in 10 heterosexual couples in the US say that they met at work. Considering some data shows people in the US between the ages of 20 and 50 spend nearly four times as much time with colleagues than they do with friends, this seems all but bound to happen. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220228-the-inevitability-of-the-office-romance https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220228-the-inevitabil...
wilsonnb3 4y ago
Nobody cares if college students try to date other students from their classes. It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. It is even weirder when the class in question is something that they have a very high skill level in specifically so that they will be able leverage that into some kind of situation that leads to dating. This is pretty cut and dry to me, I am not sure why so many people in this thread see no problem with this.
- troupe 4y ago
  > It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. Really? I know people who specifically chose their entire major based on the ratio of women in that major.
  - wilsonnb3 4y ago
    It is probably not weird in the hormone-addled mind of a teenager but yeah, I find it to be some combination of weird, pervy, sleazy, misogynistic, etc.
    - lazide 4y ago
      Or, you know, not unusual for humans with healthy hormone levels. It’s like the attack of the puritans here.
    - fastball 4y ago
      Wanting to spend more time with women is misogynistic? I don't want to whip out the dictionary definition of that word, but in what way does choosing classes to spend more time with women (because your existing classes are full of guys) mean you hate women?
      - wilsonnb3 4y ago
        If you are someone who genuinely enjoys the company of women over the company of men, then I agree that it is not misogynistic. But that isn't really what we are talking about. The average hypothetical man choosing his class or major because of how many women are in it isn't looking to make female friends. He just wants to surround himself with a higher percentage of people that he is sexually attracted to.
dymk 4y ago
Birth rates are tanking because of increased access to contraceptives and people having the wealth and freedom to enjoy their 20s and 30s unburdened by children
- t-writescode 4y ago
  > people having the wealth and freedom to enjoy their 20s and 30s unburdened by children and people *not* having the wealth and freedom to have children, being burdened by 80+ hour work weeks to pay rent on a place they'll never own or have capital in. Listen to the millenials and gen z'ers before you make bold accusations.
  - nvrmnd 4y ago
    I spent some time researching this after reading your comment, not a lot admittedly. There seems to be a great deal of uncertainty around the topic but I came away with the impression the parent comment is closer to the truth than your own.
  - abigail95 4y ago
    you need an enormous income before you have kids at the replacement rate, many multiples of the cost of their care. in every meaningful sense the income/fertility relationship is negative.
  - drewcoo 4y ago
    Unintended pregnancies have continued to rise among the poor and fall among the wealthy (including folks with decent birth control who don't think they can afford a child) for decades now. This data's a little old, but makes the point: https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2013/unintended-pregnancy-remains-persistent-problem-united-states-disparities-income https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2013/unintended-preg...
  - dymk 4y ago
    Go look at some graphs, when wealth and education go up, birth rates go down.
- 4y ago
I-love-india 4y ago
No, you just to treat women with respect. The issue here is intention. The intention here is not about teaching or learning in the class. But its using that pretence in fact distrupting the intention of the class and people there. How do you like your intention distrupted? How about by unattractive slobs who are objectifying you and trying to be "helpful" and trying tricks they found on internet If someone is trying to come to terms with complex mathematics it just not appropriate to distract or give them the feeling of having to deal with a situation of someone coming onto them. How do people not get this? It's about basic respect. Isn't it totally distracting to you if someone you're not attracted in is looking at you and commenting on you and trying to "help" you? Maybe you'd like unattractive specimens distrupting your coding process by hanging around and offering to be "helpful"?
- xupybd 4y ago
  I don't think that taking a class to get to know single women of your own age is disrespectful. Do we know they are objectifying? The post said this was about finding a future wife.
  - elil17 4y ago
    It’s disrespectful because it ignores the fact that the women are not there to date, but to learn. The men are getting in their way by showing off and offering disingenuous tutoring.
    - bruce511 4y ago
      I feel like (as an old person) trying to tell youngsters how to behave at college, seems, well likely to fall in deaf ears. But I'm not sure your point holds water. If women want to date, they can. If they don't want to then they don't have to. These other students hold no power, assign no grades, and so on. Perhaps the root issue is the demoralization of some not being offered dates or extra tutoring? But it's hard to see how that might be corrected. I confess I don't see the actual harm here - those that want to learn can learn, those that want to date can date. I suppose those that want to date, but aren't getting any offers....? Still, as an old man, I'm not sure I'm qualified to weigh in - but to me it sounds like kids being kids.
Dalewyn 4y ago
There are appropriate times and places to pork yourself out, academia is not one of them. Go pork yourself after you've "punched out".
- onepointsixC 4y ago
  This has to be one of the worst pieces of dating advice ever written. Universities are one of the best places to meet people as a student.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    Let me clarify: You don't pork out during your academic day; you get acquainted during the day to get the ball rolling, and then proceed with the porking once you've punched out and are now spending your private time.
    - onepointsixC 4y ago
      So what, you're hoping that potential love interests just stagnate like you and don't date and find other partners? No. This is highly unrealistic of normal young men and women.
      - Dalewyn 4y ago
        It's one thing to become familiar and make friends with people around you, that's just the natural order of society. It's completely another to pork yourself out in environments and situations unfit or not intended for such purposes. You ostensibly go to class to learn, not (eventually) fuck.
        Tozen 4y ago
        The problem about that is the exact opposite is happening. There is a teacher who wants to interject herself into the private lives of her adult students, have full control over how they meet, control their sexual interactions, and exert excessive influence outside of her classroom. She is attempting to force her beliefs on how people should form personal or sexual relationships, by taking advantage of her position as a teacher. This "porking" you are referring to is not happening inside of her classroom, it's outside. The adult students should have the freedom to associate with whoever they want to, for whatever reasons they want to, as long as its legal and consenting. If any of the individual adult female students have an actual complaint of harassment, they can bring that case directly. The teacher in question didn't personally like the nature of the associations being made among her adult students, and seeks to stop any possibility of "porking" through multiple public and elaborate means. To include attempting to indirectly shame all parties involved and force the school's hand.
DoctorNick 4y ago
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- GalenErso 4y ago
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sidlls 4y ago
I'm not sure whether to classify this approach to dating as merely dishonest or actively predatory. In either case, I'd hope that I would have imparted enough sense and wisdom to my children that they could see through such transparent attempts at manipulation.
hsn915 4y ago
That will not lead to a drop in fertility. Infact, that's exactly how high fertility societies operate. At least the Islamic ones, like Afghanistan for example, where the population doubled since 2001. Fertility has been dropping since the 80s, long before anything to do with wokeism or meetoo or whatever.
- fastball 4y ago
  I don't think the population is doubling in Afghanistan because of segregated school classes. There might be another confounding factor you're forgetting...
  - hsn915 4y ago
    > because of segregated school classes That's not what I said. I said high fertility societies strictly prohibit dating-like activities in daily life and limit it to pre-designated settings. This can happen without sex seggergation in school. Iraq's population also nearly doubled since 2003 (23m to 42m). Schools in Iraq have not been seggregated since forever.
- jimbob45 4y ago
  Fertility has been dropping since the 80s, long before anything to do with wokeism or meetoo or whatever. So nobody was woke in the 80s? Feminism and homosexuality just sprang up out of nowhere in 2010?
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    Further proof nobody has a firm definition of what 'woke' is.
  - jeromegv 4y ago
    Not sure what your point is exactly? Feminism and LGBTQ rights did not start in the 80s either.
    - 4y ago
mshake2 4y ago
There is a strong correlation with a puritanical culture having much higher birth rates than a sexually permissive one, so I don't think that is the reason.
- Eleison23 4y ago
  [dead]
- ipaddr 4y ago
  We have moved from a sexually permissive society 60/70/80s 90s.. but sex is now taboo under the thought of children seeing content and being abused by the experience and children being allowed in previously adult spaces. Ever wonder why murdering, killing, blood, guns are allowed on prime time tv but naked breasts are not? It use to be the opposite.
  - mshake2 4y ago
    Your tv example is severely outdated. Do you know how easy it is for anyone with an internet connection to watch hardcore pornography on demand for free? It's been that way since the internet went mainstream.
ausbah 4y ago
serious question, are deliberately ignoring the context of the question to post your victimizing dribble? it's male seniors borderline harassing freshman woman, not "someone asked someone else on a date in my class!"
zozbot234 4y ago
> It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues Isn't that the definition of "dating" though? If you're not at a previously designated "date" you're not really dating, you're just hanging out as friends. You can still try to show off good qualities that would hopefully raise the other person's interest. Sometimes people who hang out as friends even get involved quite closely romantically prior to having any formal "date" together.
- boppo1 4y ago
  I think the post you're responding to meant 'courtship' instead of 'dating'.
- em-bee 4y ago
  it is, and that's the problem. in my opinion, dating is really the wrong way to meet a partner. it is a high-stakes activity where the first impression decides everything without any second chances. Sometimes people who hang out as friends even get involved quite closely romantically because that is really the better way to find a partner. someone you already know and are friends with.
greggarious 4y ago
I think one people miss is that lack of interaction can be a form of harassment. >we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "private free tutoring sessions", etc). Some of the young students in my class take up these offers, and this further demoralizes other female students seeing this happen (i.e. only attractive women being offered tutoring sessions). Imagine how it must feel to be sincerely interested, possibly struggling because they didn't have a great K-12 experience and thus didn't have things like pre-Calc or AP credits and then... being brushed aside so someone can "tutor" their crush 1:1? Speaking as someone who's had the unpleasant experience of having someone treat me differently at work based on if I'm "datable", it's incredibly demoralizing, it makes you want to leave an entire field. On my end it made me leave a specific strain of research, but had it happened earlier on I'd have probably switched majors entirely.
- abigail95 4y ago
  I'm sorry for your situation but this is just ridiculous. You cannot ever harass someone through non-interaction, which is by definition aggresive and unwanted interaction. People complaining the women aren't being offered enough "private tutoring" in a post about how men offering women "private tutoring" being harassment. Being mildly autistic you can see why I don't date either gender with ridiculous sentiments like these being blown around.
  - greggarious 4y ago
    >You cannot ever harass someone through non-interaction Maybe not harass, but it's a form of discrimination -- only giving professional opportunities to people willing to fuck you is absolutely not kosher. >Being mildly autistic you can see why I don't date either gender with ridiculous sentiments like these being blown around. I'm also on the autistic spectrum, and I've never had an issue finding partners, and I doubt that complaints about tutoring are the reason your sex life has taken a pause.
    - bongoman37 4y ago
krick 4y ago
It might be a bit harsh to say "society demands". Society created that dating service, and, apparently, society accepted it eagerly enough for that to be seen as a problem by some other part of that society, which then came about complaining on academia.stackexchange.com. I'm not even trying to say that the former is a majority that represents the real desires of the "society", and the latter is a vocal minority: I don't have the data for that (even though I suspect that might be the case — but again, I don't know). I'm trying to say, that I'm wary of such wording, because it contains an implicit assertion that some part of the society isn't really a part of society and what it demands doesn't count. Because society demands this and that, and whoever wants anything else, isn't the society: at best, it's a sore spot on the body of the society, which should be treated as such, by applying a medicine to cure that... thing. Which is rather totalitarian worldview. So, I get what you are trying to say, but even just by saying it like that you kinda help the cause you are supposedly against.
Tozen 4y ago
> ...society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues... It's not so much "society", as it being groups with extreme contempt, misandry, and hostility towards heterosexual males, that have pushed a very distorted narrative. That is acting like all heterosexual males are a constant danger and threat, in which all women in their presence must feel uncomfortable and under continual harassment. Leaders and advocates of such groups with negative views about men, act like they speak for all other women, and are continually attempting to push these biased and actually hateful agendas. So we get placed more into situations where any actions initiated by heterosexual males, is perceived by such groups as aggressive or predatory. Asking someone out for a date, asking women questions, heterosexual flirting... easily becomes demonized. Despite how such is unfair, illogical, and opposed to biology. It should be no more of a "threat" or "violation" for a man to ask a woman out, as a woman to ask a man or another woman out (note the included cases). Furthermore, many heterosexual males are afraid to even ask women out, for fear of rejection or embarrassment. Lots of guys can't do it or seek advice. Asking out the opposite gender is not something that needs to be so tightly regulated, unless its truly a case where the person has repeatedly said no (thus actual harassment), is stalking, blackmail, extortion, etc... And in that context, women are equally capable of harassment, stalking, blackmail, etc... > men are to behave as eunuchs, and all prospects of romance are to be extinguished. There is a trick being played here, to get to that misandric destination that certain parties wish for. This is to stealthily and by defacto limit and restrict male rights, and give women extraordinary and special rights. So, push the situation where only women would have the right or privilege to initiate the possibility of a date, with men or other women. Where if a heterosexual man attempts to do so with women, he would face the possibility and fear of punishment. Think about what this teacher, who is so preoccupied with the dating lives of her students, is trying to enforce in her classroom. Looks like if she got her way, she could actively restrict the numbers of male heterosexual students in her class, for any half baked suspicions. Wants to control the popularity of where heterosexual males want to go. Then seek punishment or expulsion for any male heterosexual students that might of asked one of her female students (like she's their owner) on a date.
felix_n 4y ago
Ohh hey Jordan Peterson, nice of you to weigh in!

gnicholas 4y ago

That wasn't my reading. It seemed like the instructor was not thrilled that her course was being audited by showboaters, who were interested in meeting/impressing women as opposed to learning.

vermilingua 4y ago
“College students taking social classes with no intention of learning” is not exactly headline material though.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  I got the sense it was an academic class, not a social class. Also, most students who take classes with no interest in learning would either skip class or keep their mouths shut. The problem here is that they're degrading the learning environment for others.
  - vermilingua 4y ago
    100 level classes barely qualify as academic, and we must have had very different academic experiences if you believe that “most students… with no intention of learning… keep their mouths shut”. There has always been a population of students that attend college/uni with seemingly no higher goal than scoring and making life worse for everyone around them. The only interesting development here is that the published diversity data has allowed them to finally create Scumbaggery as a Service.
  - onepointsixC 4y ago
    Are they actually? Providing tutoring and help doesn't seem to degrade the learning environment.
  - troupe 4y ago
    I think her argument would have been stronger if she had of listed more details about how the academic environment is being degraded. Upperclassmen helping with labs and offering to tutor some students doesn't immediately make it clear how it is making it harder for students to learn. If there are students in the class who need help but don't want to go to the upperclassmen, then I'd assume the professor would have more time to help them. Overall I'm curious if the class is doing better or worse than previous classes.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

eh, there's really no good signal for women to display that says "hey, i'm open to being hit on right now" or "please don't hit on me right now"

personjerry 4y ago
THE DEFAULT IS "please don't hit on me right now"
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  What can be accepted as “it’s okay to hit on me right now”? I don’t disagree with your assertion btw. Determining collective social etiquette can be challenging, and I’m always interested in other perspectives to better understand other humans in general.
  - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
    > I don’t disagree with your assertion btw, I’ve dated several coworkers years ago but have never been in a situation where me showing interest was indicated to be unwelcome How close to the truth is this as a different take on your situation: "you slowly hit on them, and they wanted it, so they didn't report you to HR/make it a big deal"?
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      I would assume that if you indicate interest and the other person declines, you never bring it up again and you treat them no different than if you had never asked, that’s appropriate? I’d like to think that, at the topic’s core, it’s about empathy and respect for the other person and adults are still adults who can make decisions when there isn’t a power differential (peers, not in a reporting chain). My question is genuine though and stands: when is it okay to communicate interest in someone? If the answer is never, it doesn’t impact me, it just feels very telling with the times (third places evaporating, and most people spend most of their time outside the home at work). If there is a line, I’m curious where that line is, not to leverage it but to respect it. “Don’t be a dick” but you’ve still gotta put yourself out there if you want optimize for luck and possibility. To handle rejection with grace is key, which comes from emotional maturity. > Data from 2017 shows that as many as one in 10 heterosexual couples in the US say that they met at work. Considering some data shows people in the US between the ages of 20 and 50 spend nearly four times as much time with colleagues than they do with friends, this seems all but bound to happen. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220228-the-inevitability-of-the-office-romance https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220228-the-inevitabil...

wilsonnb3 4y ago

Nobody cares if college students try to date other students from their classes. It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. It is even weirder when the class in question is something that they have a very high skill level in specifically so that they will be able leverage that into some kind of situation that leads to dating. This is pretty cut and dry to me, I am not sure why so many people in this thread see no problem with this.

troupe 4y ago
> It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. Really? I know people who specifically chose their entire major based on the ratio of women in that major.
- wilsonnb3 4y ago
  It is probably not weird in the hormone-addled mind of a teenager but yeah, I find it to be some combination of weird, pervy, sleazy, misogynistic, etc.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Or, you know, not unusual for humans with healthy hormone levels. It’s like the attack of the puritans here.
  - fastball 4y ago
    Wanting to spend more time with women is misogynistic? I don't want to whip out the dictionary definition of that word, but in what way does choosing classes to spend more time with women (because your existing classes are full of guys) mean you hate women?
    - wilsonnb3 4y ago
      If you are someone who genuinely enjoys the company of women over the company of men, then I agree that it is not misogynistic. But that isn't really what we are talking about. The average hypothetical man choosing his class or major because of how many women are in it isn't looking to make female friends. He just wants to surround himself with a higher percentage of people that he is sexually attracted to.

dymk 4y ago

Birth rates are tanking because of increased access to contraceptives and people having the wealth and freedom to enjoy their 20s and 30s unburdened by children

t-writescode 4y ago
> people having the wealth and freedom to enjoy their 20s and 30s unburdened by children and people *not* having the wealth and freedom to have children, being burdened by 80+ hour work weeks to pay rent on a place they'll never own or have capital in. Listen to the millenials and gen z'ers before you make bold accusations.
- nvrmnd 4y ago
  I spent some time researching this after reading your comment, not a lot admittedly. There seems to be a great deal of uncertainty around the topic but I came away with the impression the parent comment is closer to the truth than your own.
- abigail95 4y ago
  you need an enormous income before you have kids at the replacement rate, many multiples of the cost of their care. in every meaningful sense the income/fertility relationship is negative.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  Unintended pregnancies have continued to rise among the poor and fall among the wealthy (including folks with decent birth control who don't think they can afford a child) for decades now. This data's a little old, but makes the point: https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2013/unintended-pregnancy-remains-persistent-problem-united-states-disparities-income https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2013/unintended-preg...
- dymk 4y ago
  Go look at some graphs, when wealth and education go up, birth rates go down.
4y ago

I-love-india 4y ago

No, you just to treat women with respect. The issue here is intention. The intention here is not about teaching or learning in the class. But its using that pretence in fact distrupting the intention of the class and people there. How do you like your intention distrupted? How about by unattractive slobs who are objectifying you and trying to be "helpful" and trying tricks they found on internet If someone is trying to come to terms with complex mathematics it just not appropriate to distract or give them the feeling of having to deal with a situation of someone coming onto them. How do people not get this? It's about basic respect. Isn't it totally distracting to you if someone you're not attracted in is looking at you and commenting on you and trying to "help" you? Maybe you'd like unattractive specimens distrupting your coding process by hanging around and offering to be "helpful"?

xupybd 4y ago
I don't think that taking a class to get to know single women of your own age is disrespectful. Do we know they are objectifying? The post said this was about finding a future wife.
- elil17 4y ago
  It’s disrespectful because it ignores the fact that the women are not there to date, but to learn. The men are getting in their way by showing off and offering disingenuous tutoring.
  - bruce511 4y ago
    I feel like (as an old person) trying to tell youngsters how to behave at college, seems, well likely to fall in deaf ears. But I'm not sure your point holds water. If women want to date, they can. If they don't want to then they don't have to. These other students hold no power, assign no grades, and so on. Perhaps the root issue is the demoralization of some not being offered dates or extra tutoring? But it's hard to see how that might be corrected. I confess I don't see the actual harm here - those that want to learn can learn, those that want to date can date. I suppose those that want to date, but aren't getting any offers....? Still, as an old man, I'm not sure I'm qualified to weigh in - but to me it sounds like kids being kids.

Dalewyn 4y ago

There are appropriate times and places to pork yourself out, academia is not one of them. Go pork yourself after you've "punched out".

onepointsixC 4y ago
This has to be one of the worst pieces of dating advice ever written. Universities are one of the best places to meet people as a student.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  Let me clarify: You don't pork out during your academic day; you get acquainted during the day to get the ball rolling, and then proceed with the porking once you've punched out and are now spending your private time.
  - onepointsixC 4y ago
    So what, you're hoping that potential love interests just stagnate like you and don't date and find other partners? No. This is highly unrealistic of normal young men and women.
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      It's one thing to become familiar and make friends with people around you, that's just the natural order of society. It's completely another to pork yourself out in environments and situations unfit or not intended for such purposes. You ostensibly go to class to learn, not (eventually) fuck.
      - Tozen 4y ago
        The problem about that is the exact opposite is happening. There is a teacher who wants to interject herself into the private lives of her adult students, have full control over how they meet, control their sexual interactions, and exert excessive influence outside of her classroom. She is attempting to force her beliefs on how people should form personal or sexual relationships, by taking advantage of her position as a teacher. This "porking" you are referring to is not happening inside of her classroom, it's outside. The adult students should have the freedom to associate with whoever they want to, for whatever reasons they want to, as long as its legal and consenting. If any of the individual adult female students have an actual complaint of harassment, they can bring that case directly. The teacher in question didn't personally like the nature of the associations being made among her adult students, and seeks to stop any possibility of "porking" through multiple public and elaborate means. To include attempting to indirectly shame all parties involved and force the school's hand.

DoctorNick 4y ago

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GalenErso 4y ago
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- deleted 4y ago
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sidlls 4y ago

I'm not sure whether to classify this approach to dating as merely dishonest or actively predatory. In either case, I'd hope that I would have imparted enough sense and wisdom to my children that they could see through such transparent attempts at manipulation.

hsn915 4y ago

That will not lead to a drop in fertility. Infact, that's exactly how high fertility societies operate. At least the Islamic ones, like Afghanistan for example, where the population doubled since 2001. Fertility has been dropping since the 80s, long before anything to do with wokeism or meetoo or whatever.

fastball 4y ago
I don't think the population is doubling in Afghanistan because of segregated school classes. There might be another confounding factor you're forgetting...
- hsn915 4y ago
  > because of segregated school classes That's not what I said. I said high fertility societies strictly prohibit dating-like activities in daily life and limit it to pre-designated settings. This can happen without sex seggergation in school. Iraq's population also nearly doubled since 2003 (23m to 42m). Schools in Iraq have not been seggregated since forever.
jimbob45 4y ago
Fertility has been dropping since the 80s, long before anything to do with wokeism or meetoo or whatever. So nobody was woke in the 80s? Feminism and homosexuality just sprang up out of nowhere in 2010?
- operatingthetan 4y ago
  Further proof nobody has a firm definition of what 'woke' is.
- jeromegv 4y ago
  Not sure what your point is exactly? Feminism and LGBTQ rights did not start in the 80s either.
  - 4y ago

mshake2 4y ago

There is a strong correlation with a puritanical culture having much higher birth rates than a sexually permissive one, so I don't think that is the reason.

Eleison23 4y ago
[dead]
ipaddr 4y ago
We have moved from a sexually permissive society 60/70/80s 90s.. but sex is now taboo under the thought of children seeing content and being abused by the experience and children being allowed in previously adult spaces. Ever wonder why murdering, killing, blood, guns are allowed on prime time tv but naked breasts are not? It use to be the opposite.
- mshake2 4y ago
  Your tv example is severely outdated. Do you know how easy it is for anyone with an internet connection to watch hardcore pornography on demand for free? It's been that way since the internet went mainstream.

ausbah 4y ago

serious question, are deliberately ignoring the context of the question to post your victimizing dribble? it's male seniors borderline harassing freshman woman, not "someone asked someone else on a date in my class!"

zozbot234 4y ago

> It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues Isn't that the definition of "dating" though? If you're not at a previously designated "date" you're not really dating, you're just hanging out as friends. You can still try to show off good qualities that would hopefully raise the other person's interest. Sometimes people who hang out as friends even get involved quite closely romantically prior to having any formal "date" together.

boppo1 4y ago
I think the post you're responding to meant 'courtship' instead of 'dating'.
em-bee 4y ago
it is, and that's the problem. in my opinion, dating is really the wrong way to meet a partner. it is a high-stakes activity where the first impression decides everything without any second chances. Sometimes people who hang out as friends even get involved quite closely romantically because that is really the better way to find a partner. someone you already know and are friends with.

greggarious 4y ago

I think one people miss is that lack of interaction can be a form of harassment. >we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "private free tutoring sessions", etc). Some of the young students in my class take up these offers, and this further demoralizes other female students seeing this happen (i.e. only attractive women being offered tutoring sessions). Imagine how it must feel to be sincerely interested, possibly struggling because they didn't have a great K-12 experience and thus didn't have things like pre-Calc or AP credits and then... being brushed aside so someone can "tutor" their crush 1:1? Speaking as someone who's had the unpleasant experience of having someone treat me differently at work based on if I'm "datable", it's incredibly demoralizing, it makes you want to leave an entire field. On my end it made me leave a specific strain of research, but had it happened earlier on I'd have probably switched majors entirely.

abigail95 4y ago
I'm sorry for your situation but this is just ridiculous. You cannot ever harass someone through non-interaction, which is by definition aggresive and unwanted interaction. People complaining the women aren't being offered enough "private tutoring" in a post about how men offering women "private tutoring" being harassment. Being mildly autistic you can see why I don't date either gender with ridiculous sentiments like these being blown around.
- greggarious 4y ago
  >You cannot ever harass someone through non-interaction Maybe not harass, but it's a form of discrimination -- only giving professional opportunities to people willing to fuck you is absolutely not kosher. >Being mildly autistic you can see why I don't date either gender with ridiculous sentiments like these being blown around. I'm also on the autistic spectrum, and I've never had an issue finding partners, and I doubt that complaints about tutoring are the reason your sex life has taken a pause.
  - bongoman37 4y ago

krick 4y ago

It might be a bit harsh to say "society demands". Society created that dating service, and, apparently, society accepted it eagerly enough for that to be seen as a problem by some other part of that society, which then came about complaining on academia.stackexchange.com. I'm not even trying to say that the former is a majority that represents the real desires of the "society", and the latter is a vocal minority: I don't have the data for that (even though I suspect that might be the case — but again, I don't know). I'm trying to say, that I'm wary of such wording, because it contains an implicit assertion that some part of the society isn't really a part of society and what it demands doesn't count. Because society demands this and that, and whoever wants anything else, isn't the society: at best, it's a sore spot on the body of the society, which should be treated as such, by applying a medicine to cure that... thing. Which is rather totalitarian worldview. So, I get what you are trying to say, but even just by saying it like that you kinda help the cause you are supposedly against.

Tozen 4y ago

> ...society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues... It's not so much "society", as it being groups with extreme contempt, misandry, and hostility towards heterosexual males, that have pushed a very distorted narrative. That is acting like all heterosexual males are a constant danger and threat, in which all women in their presence must feel uncomfortable and under continual harassment. Leaders and advocates of such groups with negative views about men, act like they speak for all other women, and are continually attempting to push these biased and actually hateful agendas. So we get placed more into situations where any actions initiated by heterosexual males, is perceived by such groups as aggressive or predatory. Asking someone out for a date, asking women questions, heterosexual flirting... easily becomes demonized. Despite how such is unfair, illogical, and opposed to biology. It should be no more of a "threat" or "violation" for a man to ask a woman out, as a woman to ask a man or another woman out (note the included cases). Furthermore, many heterosexual males are afraid to even ask women out, for fear of rejection or embarrassment. Lots of guys can't do it or seek advice. Asking out the opposite gender is not something that needs to be so tightly regulated, unless its truly a case where the person has repeatedly said no (thus actual harassment), is stalking, blackmail, extortion, etc... And in that context, women are equally capable of harassment, stalking, blackmail, etc... > men are to behave as eunuchs, and all prospects of romance are to be extinguished. There is a trick being played here, to get to that misandric destination that certain parties wish for. This is to stealthily and by defacto limit and restrict male rights, and give women extraordinary and special rights. So, push the situation where only women would have the right or privilege to initiate the possibility of a date, with men or other women. Where if a heterosexual man attempts to do so with women, he would face the possibility and fear of punishment. Think about what this teacher, who is so preoccupied with the dating lives of her students, is trying to enforce in her classroom. Looks like if she got her way, she could actively restrict the numbers of male heterosexual students in her class, for any half baked suspicions. Wants to control the popularity of where heterosexual males want to go. Then seek punishment or expulsion for any male heterosexual students that might of asked one of her female students (like she's their owner) on a date.

felix_n 4y ago

Ohh hey Jordan Peterson, nice of you to weigh in!