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I realised most of my basic health routine was useless to detrimental: - Soap: it disrupt the skin microbiome. Only useful for hand washing and to clean privat
by Nesco 4y ago
I realised most of my basic health routine was useless to detrimental:
- Soap: it disrupt the skin microbiome. Only useful for hand washing and to clean private parts / the bottom. Even then use high quality soap like Marseille soap or Aleppo soap.
Note: Also as mentioned in the comments if you avoid soap / deodorant you *will* probably need to shower two times a day even without doing physical activities. Three times with physical activities.
You may also need to particularly rub the smelly parts of the body (e.g. the armpits) with a clean sponge, use mild to hot water (cold water doesn’t do it without soap) and trim your body hair. There is no magic. People use soap for a reason: it’s more “practical” and it requires less care to stay clean
And if you are used to wash yourself with soap and you brutally stop you may smell a little the first month until your microbiome is able to handle all the waste and your skin to balance its oil production. Even if you shower multiple times a day.
- Shampoo: Most shampoos are very a agressive for your scalp / hairs and should be avoided. Especially if you have fragile / curly hair. You can wash them with plain water or conditioner instead.
Note: Using a gentle shampoo without silicones and surfactants can still be useful from time to time. Especially to reset the pH of the scalp.
Also using a shampoo rarely and co-washing instead can be impractical if you have long hair as it’s way harder to clean and takes far longer to dry
- Toothpaste: it can be useful but it’s not so important. What really is important is to brush your teeth energetically to remove by mechanical friction the dental plaques and to change toothbrush frequently. Avoiding for a time to use toothpaste and using dental plaque revealer can be a great way to learn how to properly wash one’s teeth
Note: As someone else noted “energetically” means speed and taking your time. *Not* applying pressure on your teeth. Also toothpaste helps the teeth by providing fluoride. It’s just that using it every time may not be so useful and do not replace brushing your teeth effectively
- friedman23 4y agoWow, you managed to convince yourself that something you were doing right was wrong
- rieg3c 4y ago???
- hgsgm 4y agoThese are heterodox views about personal hygiene.
- thepasswordis 4y agoIt sounds like this person previously had a healthy relationship with hygiene but has somehow convinced themself to just stop cleaning themselves. Soap and toothpaste are good things. These are miraculous modern inventions. Use them.
- Karawebnetwork 4y agoMost conditioners are filled with silicones that are not water soluble. But after a while, they break down and make your hair look dirty. The solution is to remove them, but you can only do that by using strong solvents. So you use shampoos that contain strong solvents. This damages your hair, so you make sure to use conditioners to repair the damage. Except they don't repair, they fill in the holes with silicones. The silicones are now deeper into your individual hair strands. It looks good, but after a while, they break down. So you use solvents, deeper this time. This damages your hair. Then you use conditioners. Most conditioners are filled with silicones that are not water soluble. Yet, after a short time...
- friedman23 4y agoI donate my time to help the homeless. I know what people that don't use soap smell like.
- johannes1234321 4y agoThe key thing is water. And clean cloths.
- Nesco 4y agoExactly. There is a world between “don’t use soap on your body” and “never shower yourself or change your clothes”. I often wash myself with water two times per day
- Karawebnetwork 4y agoYou are telling me that you are able to detect by smell whether a person is using a conditioner that contains silicones?
- jabroni_salad 4y agoThat doesn't mean you shouldn't cowash, it means you should upgrade to products that do not have silicone (also phosphates). There are various haircare forums that will give you the specific ingredients to look out for.
- altdataseller 4y agoI heard conflicting info on this. I thought you were not supposed to use soap for private parts?
- munbun 4y agoplease use more than just water.
- altdataseller 4y agoHa, I do use soap. I just heard somewhere you aren't supposed to use any.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Lewton 4y agoUnless you have a vagina, in which case err on the side of no soap, unless it becomes a problem (and then buy special soap)
- k8sToGo 4y agoYou need to use special soap that has the right pH value. Handsoap / shower gel is not the correct one.
- Nesco 4y agoNot regularly but before / after intercourses. And for the ass usually after each time you need to defecate.
- pcdoodle 4y agoThis is actually something I found myself doing the past few years. A good wash cloth and self made products are 1000x better than the heavy duty chemicals we put on our bodies everyday. I have a rule: If I can't eat it, don't use in externally either.
- maxlamb 4y agoI would add flossing on a daily basis to the list. In between every single teeth - I missed that part when I was in my 20’s and now have bone loss in my jaw due to gum disease. Also why most old people loose teeth at some point.
- nailer 4y ago> I would add flossing on a daily basis to the list. As something to do, or something to avoid? Most tribespeople and animals don't floss and have healthier teeth than modern people. I'm not sure sawing between ones gums is the ideal way of removing plaque, and I suspect is not been tested properly because I don't believe people actually do floss every every day.
- VBprogrammer 4y agoIf you are going to compare to tribes people or animals then you are going to have to completely avoid refined sugar. Which may be more unrealistic than flossing every day...
- nailer 4y ago> You are going to have to completely avoid refined sugar Yes, obviously. > Which may be more unrealistic than flossing every day... Why?
- VBprogrammer 4y ago>> Which may be more unrealistic than flossing every day... >Why? Assuming your question is in good faith, because refined sugar is everywhere. Not just in sweet treats which are commonly part of cultural celebration but also in a wide range of processed and prepared foods.
- krsw 4y agoYou also might just die from a infection if you can't a root canal. Plus the whole sugar and corn syrup thing.
- Bhilai 4y ago> Soap: it disrupt the skin microbiome. Only useful for hand washing and to clean private parts / the bottom. Even then use high quality soap like Marseille soap or Aleppo soap. > Shampoo: Most shampoos are very a agressive for your scalp / hairs and should be avoided. Especially if you have fragile / curly hair. You can wash them with plain water or conditioner instead. Wait, what? I would love to see some supporting evidence for all this.
- oDot 4y agoNot research-backed, but you can google "Curly Girl Method" for much of the reasoning, and probably many examples of people who avoid shampoos to great success, so it's at least true for some.
- s1artibartfast 4y agoI think this is an example of overly pushing everything to the demand of science. It obviously depends on your body, diet, and microbiome. There's no definitive answer like if Earth was balls around the Sun. The answer is personal. Does that work for you or not? What have you tried and what works and what doesn't
- Lewton 4y agoI think the problem is that everyone knows “that person” who thought they didn’t need soap/shampoo etc. but it turns out they just have a terrible sense of smell and are deluded Like the friend of mine who told me she never used shampoo in which my immediate reaction was “no shit..” On the flip side, I do have a close friend who admitted he only showers every three days or so, and smells impeccable (which is extra funny because he has anosmia)
- owlglass 4y agoNot research backed, but to add one data point, I bought into the whole "I need a three-step skincare routine" trend (which I think is positive, people should care for their skin as they should any other organ). However, after trying ~5 different cleansers (varying in ingredients, lathering vs non-lathering, and oil cleansing), I realized my acne is best when I cleanse twice daily with water. On the other hand, moisturizing and sunscreen has helped with dryness and post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation from acne.
- ahoho 4y agoThese are not universals. I’ve seen the no-shampoo meme repeatedly in online comments. As someone with long, fine hair, I’ve made two attempts to go without, waiting almost a month for my scalp to “reset”. It always looked extremely greasy (like Gary Oldman’s character in Slow Horses). I have had luck opting for gentler shampoos and not using them every wash, but I wouldn’t speak for anyone else. There is large variance in peoples’ bodies.
- boesboes 4y agoSame, except I get very dry and frizzy hair. I only wash mu hair 2 times a week already & tried other crap for months with no difference in how shitty my hair is
- Nesco 4y agoI concur that my takes largely depends of my own situation. Long hair is tremendously more difficult to wash and takes way more time to dry. Just co-washing them is often impractical. When I had longer hair I usually used shampoo once every two to three days instead of once every two weeks. Very gentle ones however
- Bradlinc 4y agoSame here. Though with a dry shampoo (or corn starch) I have found I can make it a few days in between washes.
- marcrosoft 4y agoI’ve met a few people in my life that avoid deodorants and soaps and claim they don’t need them and don’t stink. They all did. My theory is they get used to their smell after awhile and can no longer smell it.
- ergonaught 4y agoThat is an interesting and seemingly likely explanation. I've had this "debate" with entire groups of people who live in much cooler environments and claim they don't have body odor, but they most assuredly do. I never understood whether they "don't stink when they're in their normal environment" or just couldn't smell it anymore.
- Pigalowda 4y agoI recently moved from Texas to seattle. They smell like dirt and wet dog as well as traditional musky BO. They don’t smell it because their olfactory neurons have habituated.
- Nesco 4y agoI indeed tends to get “dirty” and smell faster and I indeed feel it. However I wash myself more often. Usually in the morning and before bed. After sport sessions also
- Pigalowda 4y agoYep, they stink and this guy stinks too.
- muzani 4y agoI went through a phase of stinking and I can confirm you don't realize it. Something in the brain just filters out smells that you're used to.
- mrguyorama 4y agoHumanity ignored soap for significant amounts of its existence. Nearly everyone stunk. There are likely very very few people whose natural body microbiome won't end up stinking. You (the reader) are probably not one of those people.
- ericpauley 4y agoStrong disagree on toothpaste. Toothpaste is more than just a physical abrasive, it’s also a source of fluoride that makes your enamel far more resistant to acid erosion.
- Nesco 4y agoThat’s why I said it was useful in the first place. However you already get enough fluorides with a moderate use.
- axiom92 4y ago> until your microbiome is able to handle all the waste / oil that your skin produces Or maybe until you stop noticing the smell? Ask a friend perhaps.
- Nesco 4y agoI indeed did asked friends. They couldn’t tell the difference. That’s why I stocked to it. However I indeed need to wash myself more often, especially when the temperature is kinda hot
- axiom92 4y agoI see. I wonder if you've been phrasing this (tricky) question correctly. For example, if you've been asking "I don't smell bad right?? I smell great, right!?" you're unlikely to get honest replies. Reminds me of "The Mom Test" [1]. The book has a few tricks that can help with asking tough questions and receiving an honest feedback. [1] https://www.momtestbook.com/ https://www.momtestbook.com/
- Nesco 4y agoI asked friends which I know to be brutally honest as I was both skeptical and worried. And you indeed smell if you don’t shower two times a day without soap and deodorant. And even by showering two times a day you will smell the first month until the skin regulates its oil production and the microbiome is able to handle skin wastes. Great book btw.
- beepbooptheory 4y agoIs Dr. Bronners a good one?
- accrual 4y agoI had a bad experience using Dr. Bronner's as body soap. It really disrupted my natural barrier. However, for non-skin purposes, I think it's an excellent general purpose soap.
- thepasswordis 4y agoNo man you definitely need soap.
- bryanlarsen 4y agoIf you only shower once a day, you need soap. If you're willing to shower multiple times a day, you don't need soap.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- notadev 4y agoWhat would multiple showed a day look like? Morning, post-lunch, before bed? How long are the showers and do you use any soap at all?
- bryanlarsen 4y agoI shower before any type of socialization (including work), and after any type of exercise. That's multiple times a day and similar to most westerners. The big thing some people don't do is shower after work before going out for the evening. Women might be able to get away with that, but if you're a man and you occasionally sweat you can't, soap or not.
- Nesco 4y agoI only used soap on my hands and bottom. Usually I shower in the morning, then after sport if I am doing a sport session and then before going to bed. Showers take far less time as you don’t use soap, however you need to use mild to hot water as cold water won’t wash anything without soap
- Nesco 4y agoExactly: I shower often two times a day. And that is when I avoid sport
- 4y ago
- tastyfreeze 4y agoI stopped washing my body with soap 3 years ago. Now I just wash my nether region. I also wash my hair once a week. My skin isn't dry and scratchy and my hair is strong and silky. Kind of amazing that marketing has us all thinking that hygiene means soaping everything everyday. Just water will remove most things. Soap is to remove oil and fat.
- bryanlarsen 4y agoIf you sweat and you don't use soap and you don't want to stink you need to wash every 4 hours or so. If you don't sweat you need to wash every 8 hours or so. Soap adds about 50% to those numbers. If you're not dancing closely with people maybe you can extend that time a little bit, but those are the numbers we settled on as a dance community who regularly had dances longer than 4 hours...
- nlh 4y agoRelated discoveries/improvements I've made: 1) Soap/Shampoo: I stopped using fancy perfumed big-brand shampoos (Dial/Dove/Pert/etc. filled with things like Methylchloroisothiazolinone which, despite being an endless source of literary entertainment, is just a preservative) and started using very very simple soaps, like Dr. Bronner's all-purpose castile stuff, and I've found my hair/body is just as clean and doesn't turn to oil/grease after a skipping one day 2) Toothpaste: I switched to a brand that does NOT have sodium lauryl sulfate (which just makes fake foam) and any minor bumps or scratches (from an awkward tortilla chip chomp, for example) no longer cause days worth of pain. MAJOR life improvement.
- boesboes 4y agoYou probably stink tbh..
- pc86 4y agoI can smell this comment.
- tthbrshthraway 4y ago> What really is important is to brush your teeth energetically Potentially bad advice. If you apply too much pressure or use too hard of a toothbrush you will get yourself early gum recession. Brush gently using a soft brush, ideally electric because it cleans better. Lots of info available on this online, or ask your dentist.
- Nesco 4y agoI should have clarified that I meant speed not pressure. Applying pressure is indeed a awful for teeth
- maximus-decimus 4y agoWhy though? What advantage are you getting from avoiding soap that would convince people to stop using it?
- glormph 4y agoHa, I learned about no soap on HN some years ago, a HNer claiming their lovers thought the no-soap skin smelled great. I guess it's likely that other bacterial species may thrive on your skin when not washing with soap (soap washing would remove more bacteria, only allowing fast-multiplying bacteria to repopulate the area, while water-washing would leave more different species). Not sure if the microbiome difference is better/healthier/nicer smelling. I jumped at the "my lovers loved it" recommendation and gave it a try (still used shampoo, no success excluding that, washed hands, used deodorant and paid extra care to smelly areas), and the armpits definitely smelled differently (but hardly like flowers) after a while of this practice, __to me__. As pointed out already, that may be have been my olfaction getting used to my newly acquired BO, like not noticing the smell of your own house, but others' houses smell different. My post-training clothes still smelled terrible.
- unrealp 4y agoNot sure why this received so much flak. I have been soap and shampoo free for 15 years or so. Have seen no issues. I do use soap for washing hands after meals to get rid of oils and stuff. Its not like I have perfect skin or hair. Just average perhaps but not bad either. At 42 I have only 4 gray hair, probably its just genetics.