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> [The Secret Service agent] asked my for some picture ID. I have some fake photo ID's that a friend made for me years before, when we could make realistic phot

by yreg 4y ago

> [The Secret Service agent] asked my for some picture ID. I have some fake photo ID's that a friend made for me years before, when we could make realistic photo ID's from our computers. Almost nobody else could do this because printers weren't good enough. But I had an expensive early generation dye sublimation printer and made some fake ID's for fun. I had one favorite fake ID that I'd used for almost every airplane flight, domestic and international, that I'd taken for many years. It says "Laser Safety Officer" and has a photo of me with an eyepatch. It also says "Department of Defiance" in an arc, in a font that looks like "Department of Defense" to the casual glance. > As I opened my wallet, I considered whether I should risk using this fake ID on the Secret Service. It probably amounted to a real crime. I had my driver's license as well. But you only live once and only a few of us even get a chance like this once in our lives. So I handed him the fake ID. He noted and returned it. The Secret Service took an ID that said "Laser Safety Officer" with a photo of myself wearing an eyepatch. Woz plays life like an RPG.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dist1ll 4y ago
Isn't it pretty irresponsible to commit a felony while you have a daughter and wife to take care of? I find his nonchalant delivery quite jarring. I don't understand what's going through his head here.
- Asooka 4y ago
  No less irresponsible than charging a man with a felony over an obvious joke.
  - ramraj07 4y ago
    How is using fake IDs to board airplanes a joke? Only because we are mostly sure this particular man is an innocent manchild, but how exactly does that generalize?
    - justsomehnguy 4y ago
      If I understand it right what while the ID was 'fake' it had his real name on it. So it wasn't more 'fake' than your job ID card with the same data on it.
    - crispyambulance 4y ago
      It was the mid 80's, well before 9-11. Airport security was far more lax. Everything was far more lax. There was no way to easily verify ID anyway.
      - dsomers 4y ago
        Exactly this. As late as the 2001 I could cross into the US from Canada with as little as my birth certificate, which I often did. That was just a cotton blended paper with tattered edges with some writing, and the crest of my province printed on it. There wasn’t even a photo on it! It was closer to writing, ‘I’m daniel plz let me in’ on a napkin, than it is to my passport of today with its photo, barcode, and RFID chip that they can cross reference their data base with.
        rmason 4y ago
        Actually before 9-11 you could enter Canada with only a Michigan drivers license. I did it all the time, had friends in Windsor and I'd drive down just to have dinner with them. Now you need either a passport or a special Michigan drivers license. Last time I renewed in person after COVID I tried to get one. The lady behind the counter said you don't want one of those. I asked her why and she told me that I'd hold up the line behind me. Since I was renewing months after my license expired due to the office being closed at the beginning of COVID I didn't argue with her.
        OJFord 4y ago
        As little as a birth certificate? You can still cross EU borders with just a driving licence, or government issued ID where they have them. (In practice the vast majority using planes and boats at least probably do take a passport, I always did from the UK, but in theory you don't need one, so if you weren't planning to go elsewhere you wouldn't even need to get a passport.)
- crispyambulance 4y ago
  It was a different era, people were more cool and playful back then.
  - ramraj07 4y ago
    Not to mention not looking like a minority was a fairly strong shield back then and even is today.
    - tukantje 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - FearlessNebula 4y ago
      It’s more that he is affluent. Try to imagine white trash pulling this stunt and it wouldn’t go well either.
      - slackfan 4y ago
        As proud trailer trash -- fucking with the feds is a time honoured tradition, and we have done similar and gotten away with more. Please stop being so condescending.
        Quarrelsome 4y ago
        I mean, we still end up in jail cells for a few hours. But sure, we might get off with a slap on the wrist.
        ipaddr 4y ago
        Probably the stupidest discussion on hw.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- gandalfian 4y ago
  If it has his correct details is it actually a fake ID?
  - akerl_ 4y ago
    Yes.
  - dxdm 4y ago
    Yes.
  - AuthorizedCust 4y ago
    It’s only fake if it’s imitating an ID issued by some other organization.
    - aqfamnzc 4y ago
      If I print a student ID issued by a non-existant university, is it a fake ID?
      - lupire 4y ago
        It depends on what is being asserted, I suppose. Is it used to prove an accreditation?
      - Ekaros 4y ago
        Probably. Certainly using one to gain student discount or like is fraud.
  - oytis 4y ago
    Yes
  - ztrww 4y ago
    Not necessarily
- papito 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - thewrongthinker 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - tukantje 4y ago
      Your racism is showing. What level of stupidity does someone need to think that it is only "muh European people" that have "an innate curiosity and self confidence"?
  - tukantje 4y ago
    I am quite an upstanding person, didn't commit crimes and when I see police I change the side of the street I am walking on even. As a minority, the police is scary. It only takes one bad apple for my life to take a turn for the worse. As it turns out, there is a non-negligible percentage of the population that hates my guts because of colour, so might as well be safe.
    - ThunderSizzle 4y ago
      Not to belittle your stance, but everything you said is true regardless whether your a minority or not. Police can be scary, regardless if their skin color matches yours or not. They have near absolute authority to do nearly anything, and you'll lose in a he said-he said court case. But good officers can also be a substantial positive impact on society.
      - tukantje 4y ago
        Hence the last sentence of my comment. Whilst police is scary in general, it is much more likely for me to have an issue with them than someone who is a middle aged white guy, dressed well etc. People tend to judge others based off of stereotypes, i.e. "which box does this one fit in", and I know that the options for me, on average, are not super lovely. As such, this isn't an argument for or against police or officers. It is something that highlights the "abusable authority" and for some minorities how the police is more "willing" to do so, on average. Hell, we are at the point where standup comedians are joking as "police wouldn't shoot me, I am not black" since it is quite a widespread fact by now.
- gonzo41 4y ago
  Well at that time, micro-dosing lsd perhaps.... :P
- fsloth 4y ago
  I don’t understand why you presume woz had a responsibility to ”take a care of his wife”?
  - dist1ll 4y ago
    People in a romantic relationship usually take care of each other.
    - rwalle 4y ago
      Yeah. It would never occur to me to ask such a question. I guess time has changed and people will find problem in each and every sentence.
      - fsloth 4y ago
        In context of ”the husband has potentially dangerous quirky hobbies, should he stop them or not”, not ”it’s ok to go ahead and ruin your familys finances” - the latter is not really a realistic scenario here.
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    In most western marriages, people agree to take care of each other, frequently explicitly as part of their ceremony. Source: attended 100+ weddings as a photographer.
    - fsloth 4y ago
      Maybe it’s my nordic background where people value independence (perhaps patholohically so). In general if a husband had any moderately dangerous hobbies it would sound a bit weird where I’m from that they stopped them just because they got married and had kids. And if they had apprehended Woz he would probably had a lawyer to bail him out and smooth things over. So coming from these two directions the argument that fooling around was somehow traitorous behaviour towards his wife sounded really odd.
      - 4y ago
- szundi 4y ago
  Those times you would not go to jail for having fun with an agent.
- kingkawn 4y ago
  Ffs man just stop
- tankenmate 4y ago
  To be convicted the prosecution needs to prove mens rea (providing a fake ID isn't strict liability), his thinking of why he chose to do this would make prosecution a fair bit harder (but obviously not impossible).
  - D13Fd 4y ago
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028 His quote reads like a confession...
    - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
      Not of intending to trick them into thinking he was anyone other than himself. The main issue is that he's not at the Department of Defense HQ presenting his Department of Defiance ID, claiming to be with the government but intending to present the joke as an excuse if it fails. In this case he wasn't trying to claim to be government to get out of anything so it's pretty obvious that it's a joke. > 18 U.S. Code § 1028 (4)knowingly possesses an identification document (other than one issued lawfully for the use of the possessor), authentication feature, or a false identification document, with the intent such document or feature be used to defraud the United States; He wasn't using the fake part of the ID, just his real name, and it's obvious that it wouldn't have done him any good to do so because there's no legal exemption for laser safety officers. It's pretty obvious that there was intent, this was a conscious act, but also that there was not intent to defraud.
- scotty79 4y ago
  > I don't understand what's going through his head here. Defiance
- decremental 4y ago
  [flagged]
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  Shit was very different, in terms of interaction with the security apparatus of the state, pre-9/11.
  - fxtentacle 4y ago
    Yeah. Imagine bringing ESTES toy rockets in hand luggage nowadays. They used to be a popular gift for kids.
- dereg 4y ago
  I can’t help but shake my head at most of these comments. There was a time when we celebrated anecdotes like this here on Hacker News. I’ve seen this story circulated many times but this is the first time I’ve seen this sort of reaction. These aren’t rose colored glasses, anyone can look up threads of old in which we cheered such defiance toward authority. People are frothing to frame this story with 2023 glasses and, to me, this reaction makes it all the more clear how today’s culture is so corrosive. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it’s not about privilege of rich white men. Maybe it’s about the rigid conformism that the tech industry has imbued in its people in this past decade. The screams of people glued to Anki preparing for leetcode interviews, not understanding why someone would dare challenge the status quo. Regardless, it’s a sign of the times.
  - sandworm101 4y ago
    That was before we knew that real people suffer after pulling similar stunts. We all know of someone who did something stupid and has faced a lifetime of consiquence. Nobody dares put a fake bomb in a school locker (Woz did that) or give false documents to police for fun. Such things are no longer jokes. They screw up entire lives. I used to ride fast motorcycles. I know people who ran from the police for fun. Better camera tech in recent years means nobody gets away with that anymore. And when caught, your life grinds to a hault.
    - ztrww 4y ago
      I’m really unsure whether doing the same thing now would have a high risk of “screwing up” your life. It’s not like he showed anyone a counterfeit ID. What he did is the same as showing a random company ID. Not exactly grounds for arrest especially if he can provide a driver’s license if asked to.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - sandworm101 4y ago
        It was a counterfeit ID. If the cop reading it walks away with the reasonable, but false, belief that the person works for the dod, he has presented a counterfeit ID. If he did it to trick the cop, he has knowingly presented false information/lied to police.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Yeah, my reaction was -- after he read you your miranda rights, why were you even talking to him without a lawyer? But after thinking about it more -- and I'm in my mid-40s -- I think what it also reminds us of is that law enforcement actually used to be a lot more reasonable -- to be clear, this may probably only apply to white people who appear as if they are not poor. But I think maybe the police (whether local or national security) have actually maybe gotten a lot more intense in the past 30 years. Possibly actually more intense for everyone. The risks of "messing with" security personel, at least for middle-class-appearing white guys, was very definitely a lot less back then.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    > think what it also reminds us of is that law enforcement actually used to be a lot more reasonable No, it just use to be a lot less recorded… And no minority with a sense of history would say that police have ever been “reasonable”
    - jrochkind1 4y ago
      So in my comment that was only like five sentances, one of them was "to be clear, this may probably only apply to white people who appear as if they are not poor", right? I'm curious if you are old enough to remember the 80s, although I'm not going to bet any precious precious donuts about it. How state violence and repression was in the 80s isn't good enough, agreed. But things actually do change, get better and worse in different dimensions. If we insist that things have always been exactly as they are, then it seems fatalistic, they can't possibly change, this is the way it's always been and always will be. But things do change. If they were better in some ways 30 years ago, then this isn't inevitable. Woz was a prankster, including against those in authority. Look up some of the pranks the MIT "hackers" pulled back in the day. Today, some of them would probably get you arrested on domestic terrorism charges. This is not an improvement, even if it's true that the police of course have always been brutal in some times and places, especially depending on social position of the victims. But nobody (I hope) is looking for equality of brutal discipline, equally oppressive to all.
- SergeAx 4y ago
  The presense of wife actually makes this trick much safer. She is a capable adult and can take care of herself and daughter.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- moomoo11 4y ago
  That is why he is Woz and you are.. who?
- starkd 4y ago
  Or maybe this is just a story that didn't really happen. Not exactly something that can be readily fact-checked.
- erosenbe0 4y ago
  Woz is embellishing for dramatic effect. Decades ago, picture ID meant anything. You could get on a plane sometimes with a school ID. Before holograms and bar codes on driver's licenses, all IDs were presumed to be garbage and just a way to get the spelling of a person's name if in fact the ID was real. Woz was not in custody and is therefore exaggerating about being Mirandized. He played a prank by giving his clown employee ID. It was in Casinoland where people had goofy job titles and this wouldn't have been so crazy. Nothing to see here. That said, if he had been in actual trouble or has been committing forgery, the clown ID would have been a bad move.
  - RogerL 4y ago
    Mid 80s I flew home to visit family. Wallet was stolen while rock climbing (I foolishly left it at the base in my pack). Have to fly home, what to do?? Easy peasy. Go to the local ski mountain where I knew the employees, had them make me a bogus laminated employee card with my photo on it, and flew back home using it for my id. No problem.
    - landemva 4y ago
      I flew in mid-90s with no ID on tickets booked in name of office manager. Can still fly in USA without ID. The checkpoint "agents" have you sign a special form. Last summer I "Scotch" taped the crap out of the barcode and picture on my passport. Checkpoint person asked me why and I mumbled because the real answer was "to see what happens." She called supervisor and he quickly waved me through. May be different effect at immigration.
- aflag 4y ago
  I get the daughter, but why does the wife need being taken care of?
mertd 4y ago
He is a true hacker. He simply had to find out if his exploit worked on the secret service. I love the story.
b3orn 4y ago
> It probably amounted to a real crime. I'm not a lawyer, I have no idea how criminal law in the USA works, but why would this be a crime? He didn't fake a Department of Defence ID, he created an ID for a fictional Department of Defiance, it may look similar, it may appear as a "real" ID because it's not just a piece of paper, but it's about as real an ID as a gym membership card.
- lqet 4y ago
  But you wouldn't board an international flight with your gym membership card.
  - ztrww 4y ago
    I would if I could..
  - rcstank 4y ago
    In 2023? No. In 198X? You didn’t even need an ID.
    - dghughes 4y ago
      I drove alone to the US from Canada for a trip in 1999 no passport (never had and still don't have one). The US Border Agents used my driver's license as proof of my ID. But they were convinced my goal was to go there to live. they tore my car apart, took everything out of luggage. They let me go but thought I was never coming back. All I was doing was going to a Thanksgiving dinner in Scranton.
      - lancepioch 4y ago
        I think it was about 2008-2009 that Canada started requiring US citizens to have their passport. Before that, they would take most US state ids.
      - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
        How do you know what they thought? And if they truly believed that why would they let you through?
AuthorizedCust 4y ago
How is that ID fake? It would have to imitate some ID issued by some organization to be fake. I think “novelty ID” may be more correct. Just like those novelty dollar bills that kind of look like real currency in some ways but still have significant distinctions.
29athrowaway 4y ago
Another interesting story from the Apple founders... https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/steve-jobs-biography-60-minutes-video-accidental-meeting-dad-252421/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/steve-jo... Steve Jobs met his biological father accidentally at a restaurant.
jejeyyy77 4y ago
People go to prison for a lot less these days.
esaym 4y ago
> It probably amounted to a real crime. Risky, but it doesn't sound like a forged government ID (driver's license, etc). It might have even had his actual name on it.
causality0 4y ago
He could also just be lying about the story.
- MiddleEndian 4y ago
  People don't always check IDs that well, even people whose job is 90% checking IDs. A friend of mine is a bouncer who has memorized every state's ID (he catches a lot of IDs that scan at other places) and usually gets multiple fakes a night while working. He got an obvious fake from a blond 6'2" guy. He gave it to our dark-haired 5'7" friend with a very different facial structure and told him to try it at several other bars in the area. Said friend got into every bar.
FatActor 4y ago
Just because he does "tame" things doesn't mean he's not abusing his privilege as an uber-rich white dude. He's a million times better person than Musk, but this is still immature behavior that not everyone could get away with because of what they look like. But hey, he's a hacker god so blank check I guess.
77pt77 4y ago
How the hell can you travel internationally with a fake US ID?
- TheHappyOddish 4y ago
  As he mentions later in the story, he also has a passport.
  - 77pt77 4y ago
    He also mentioned he traveled internationally with fake ID.
zxcvbn4038 4y ago
I had a replica of the Bad Mother F#cker wallet from pulp fiction. One of the TSA people asked to see my id but I think he was so busy staring at my wallet he didn’t actually look at my id when I handed it to him.

by yreg 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dist1ll 4y ago

Isn't it pretty irresponsible to commit a felony while you have a daughter and wife to take care of? I find his nonchalant delivery quite jarring. I don't understand what's going through his head here.

Asooka 4y ago
No less irresponsible than charging a man with a felony over an obvious joke.
- ramraj07 4y ago
  How is using fake IDs to board airplanes a joke? Only because we are mostly sure this particular man is an innocent manchild, but how exactly does that generalize?
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    If I understand it right what while the ID was 'fake' it had his real name on it. So it wasn't more 'fake' than your job ID card with the same data on it.
  - crispyambulance 4y ago
    It was the mid 80's, well before 9-11. Airport security was far more lax. Everything was far more lax. There was no way to easily verify ID anyway.
    - dsomers 4y ago
      Exactly this. As late as the 2001 I could cross into the US from Canada with as little as my birth certificate, which I often did. That was just a cotton blended paper with tattered edges with some writing, and the crest of my province printed on it. There wasn’t even a photo on it! It was closer to writing, ‘I’m daniel plz let me in’ on a napkin, than it is to my passport of today with its photo, barcode, and RFID chip that they can cross reference their data base with.
      - rmason 4y ago
        Actually before 9-11 you could enter Canada with only a Michigan drivers license. I did it all the time, had friends in Windsor and I'd drive down just to have dinner with them. Now you need either a passport or a special Michigan drivers license. Last time I renewed in person after COVID I tried to get one. The lady behind the counter said you don't want one of those. I asked her why and she told me that I'd hold up the line behind me. Since I was renewing months after my license expired due to the office being closed at the beginning of COVID I didn't argue with her.
      - OJFord 4y ago
        As little as a birth certificate? You can still cross EU borders with just a driving licence, or government issued ID where they have them. (In practice the vast majority using planes and boats at least probably do take a passport, I always did from the UK, but in theory you don't need one, so if you weren't planning to go elsewhere you wouldn't even need to get a passport.)
crispyambulance 4y ago
It was a different era, people were more cool and playful back then.
- ramraj07 4y ago
  Not to mention not looking like a minority was a fairly strong shield back then and even is today.
  - tukantje 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - FearlessNebula 4y ago
    It’s more that he is affluent. Try to imagine white trash pulling this stunt and it wouldn’t go well either.
    - slackfan 4y ago
      As proud trailer trash -- fucking with the feds is a time honoured tradition, and we have done similar and gotten away with more. Please stop being so condescending.
      - Quarrelsome 4y ago
        I mean, we still end up in jail cells for a few hours. But sure, we might get off with a slap on the wrist.
        ipaddr 4y ago
        Probably the stupidest discussion on hw.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
gandalfian 4y ago
If it has his correct details is it actually a fake ID?
- akerl_ 4y ago
  Yes.
- dxdm 4y ago
  Yes.
- AuthorizedCust 4y ago
  It’s only fake if it’s imitating an ID issued by some other organization.
  - aqfamnzc 4y ago
    If I print a student ID issued by a non-existant university, is it a fake ID?
    - lupire 4y ago
      It depends on what is being asserted, I suppose. Is it used to prove an accreditation?
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      Probably. Certainly using one to gain student discount or like is fraud.
- oytis 4y ago
  Yes
- ztrww 4y ago
  Not necessarily
papito 4y ago
[flagged]
- thewrongthinker 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - tukantje 4y ago
    Your racism is showing. What level of stupidity does someone need to think that it is only "muh European people" that have "an innate curiosity and self confidence"?
- tukantje 4y ago
  I am quite an upstanding person, didn't commit crimes and when I see police I change the side of the street I am walking on even. As a minority, the police is scary. It only takes one bad apple for my life to take a turn for the worse. As it turns out, there is a non-negligible percentage of the population that hates my guts because of colour, so might as well be safe.
  - ThunderSizzle 4y ago
    Not to belittle your stance, but everything you said is true regardless whether your a minority or not. Police can be scary, regardless if their skin color matches yours or not. They have near absolute authority to do nearly anything, and you'll lose in a he said-he said court case. But good officers can also be a substantial positive impact on society.
    - tukantje 4y ago
      Hence the last sentence of my comment. Whilst police is scary in general, it is much more likely for me to have an issue with them than someone who is a middle aged white guy, dressed well etc. People tend to judge others based off of stereotypes, i.e. "which box does this one fit in", and I know that the options for me, on average, are not super lovely. As such, this isn't an argument for or against police or officers. It is something that highlights the "abusable authority" and for some minorities how the police is more "willing" to do so, on average. Hell, we are at the point where standup comedians are joking as "police wouldn't shoot me, I am not black" since it is quite a widespread fact by now.
gonzo41 4y ago
Well at that time, micro-dosing lsd perhaps.... :P
fsloth 4y ago
I don’t understand why you presume woz had a responsibility to ”take a care of his wife”?
- dist1ll 4y ago
  People in a romantic relationship usually take care of each other.
  - rwalle 4y ago
    Yeah. It would never occur to me to ask such a question. I guess time has changed and people will find problem in each and every sentence.
    - fsloth 4y ago
      In context of ”the husband has potentially dangerous quirky hobbies, should he stop them or not”, not ”it’s ok to go ahead and ruin your familys finances” - the latter is not really a realistic scenario here.
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  In most western marriages, people agree to take care of each other, frequently explicitly as part of their ceremony. Source: attended 100+ weddings as a photographer.
  - fsloth 4y ago
    Maybe it’s my nordic background where people value independence (perhaps patholohically so). In general if a husband had any moderately dangerous hobbies it would sound a bit weird where I’m from that they stopped them just because they got married and had kids. And if they had apprehended Woz he would probably had a lawyer to bail him out and smooth things over. So coming from these two directions the argument that fooling around was somehow traitorous behaviour towards his wife sounded really odd.
    - 4y ago
szundi 4y ago
Those times you would not go to jail for having fun with an agent.
kingkawn 4y ago
Ffs man just stop
tankenmate 4y ago
To be convicted the prosecution needs to prove mens rea (providing a fake ID isn't strict liability), his thinking of why he chose to do this would make prosecution a fair bit harder (but obviously not impossible).
- D13Fd 4y ago
  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028 His quote reads like a confession...
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    Not of intending to trick them into thinking he was anyone other than himself. The main issue is that he's not at the Department of Defense HQ presenting his Department of Defiance ID, claiming to be with the government but intending to present the joke as an excuse if it fails. In this case he wasn't trying to claim to be government to get out of anything so it's pretty obvious that it's a joke. > 18 U.S. Code § 1028 (4)knowingly possesses an identification document (other than one issued lawfully for the use of the possessor), authentication feature, or a false identification document, with the intent such document or feature be used to defraud the United States; He wasn't using the fake part of the ID, just his real name, and it's obvious that it wouldn't have done him any good to do so because there's no legal exemption for laser safety officers. It's pretty obvious that there was intent, this was a conscious act, but also that there was not intent to defraud.
scotty79 4y ago
> I don't understand what's going through his head here. Defiance
decremental 4y ago
[flagged]
cmrdporcupine 4y ago
Shit was very different, in terms of interaction with the security apparatus of the state, pre-9/11.
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  Yeah. Imagine bringing ESTES toy rockets in hand luggage nowadays. They used to be a popular gift for kids.
dereg 4y ago
I can’t help but shake my head at most of these comments. There was a time when we celebrated anecdotes like this here on Hacker News. I’ve seen this story circulated many times but this is the first time I’ve seen this sort of reaction. These aren’t rose colored glasses, anyone can look up threads of old in which we cheered such defiance toward authority. People are frothing to frame this story with 2023 glasses and, to me, this reaction makes it all the more clear how today’s culture is so corrosive. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it’s not about privilege of rich white men. Maybe it’s about the rigid conformism that the tech industry has imbued in its people in this past decade. The screams of people glued to Anki preparing for leetcode interviews, not understanding why someone would dare challenge the status quo. Regardless, it’s a sign of the times.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  That was before we knew that real people suffer after pulling similar stunts. We all know of someone who did something stupid and has faced a lifetime of consiquence. Nobody dares put a fake bomb in a school locker (Woz did that) or give false documents to police for fun. Such things are no longer jokes. They screw up entire lives. I used to ride fast motorcycles. I know people who ran from the police for fun. Better camera tech in recent years means nobody gets away with that anymore. And when caught, your life grinds to a hault.
  - ztrww 4y ago
    I’m really unsure whether doing the same thing now would have a high risk of “screwing up” your life. It’s not like he showed anyone a counterfeit ID. What he did is the same as showing a random company ID. Not exactly grounds for arrest especially if he can provide a driver’s license if asked to.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - sandworm101 4y ago
      It was a counterfeit ID. If the cop reading it walks away with the reasonable, but false, belief that the person works for the dod, he has presented a counterfeit ID. If he did it to trick the cop, he has knowingly presented false information/lied to police.
jrochkind1 4y ago
Yeah, my reaction was -- after he read you your miranda rights, why were you even talking to him without a lawyer? But after thinking about it more -- and I'm in my mid-40s -- I think what it also reminds us of is that law enforcement actually used to be a lot more reasonable -- to be clear, this may probably only apply to white people who appear as if they are not poor. But I think maybe the police (whether local or national security) have actually maybe gotten a lot more intense in the past 30 years. Possibly actually more intense for everyone. The risks of "messing with" security personel, at least for middle-class-appearing white guys, was very definitely a lot less back then.
- scarface74 4y ago
  > think what it also reminds us of is that law enforcement actually used to be a lot more reasonable No, it just use to be a lot less recorded… And no minority with a sense of history would say that police have ever been “reasonable”
  - jrochkind1 4y ago
    So in my comment that was only like five sentances, one of them was "to be clear, this may probably only apply to white people who appear as if they are not poor", right? I'm curious if you are old enough to remember the 80s, although I'm not going to bet any precious precious donuts about it. How state violence and repression was in the 80s isn't good enough, agreed. But things actually do change, get better and worse in different dimensions. If we insist that things have always been exactly as they are, then it seems fatalistic, they can't possibly change, this is the way it's always been and always will be. But things do change. If they were better in some ways 30 years ago, then this isn't inevitable. Woz was a prankster, including against those in authority. Look up some of the pranks the MIT "hackers" pulled back in the day. Today, some of them would probably get you arrested on domestic terrorism charges. This is not an improvement, even if it's true that the police of course have always been brutal in some times and places, especially depending on social position of the victims. But nobody (I hope) is looking for equality of brutal discipline, equally oppressive to all.
SergeAx 4y ago
The presense of wife actually makes this trick much safer. She is a capable adult and can take care of herself and daughter.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
moomoo11 4y ago
That is why he is Woz and you are.. who?
starkd 4y ago
Or maybe this is just a story that didn't really happen. Not exactly something that can be readily fact-checked.
erosenbe0 4y ago
Woz is embellishing for dramatic effect. Decades ago, picture ID meant anything. You could get on a plane sometimes with a school ID. Before holograms and bar codes on driver's licenses, all IDs were presumed to be garbage and just a way to get the spelling of a person's name if in fact the ID was real. Woz was not in custody and is therefore exaggerating about being Mirandized. He played a prank by giving his clown employee ID. It was in Casinoland where people had goofy job titles and this wouldn't have been so crazy. Nothing to see here. That said, if he had been in actual trouble or has been committing forgery, the clown ID would have been a bad move.
- RogerL 4y ago
  Mid 80s I flew home to visit family. Wallet was stolen while rock climbing (I foolishly left it at the base in my pack). Have to fly home, what to do?? Easy peasy. Go to the local ski mountain where I knew the employees, had them make me a bogus laminated employee card with my photo on it, and flew back home using it for my id. No problem.
  - landemva 4y ago
    I flew in mid-90s with no ID on tickets booked in name of office manager. Can still fly in USA without ID. The checkpoint "agents" have you sign a special form. Last summer I "Scotch" taped the crap out of the barcode and picture on my passport. Checkpoint person asked me why and I mumbled because the real answer was "to see what happens." She called supervisor and he quickly waved me through. May be different effect at immigration.
aflag 4y ago
I get the daughter, but why does the wife need being taken care of?

mertd 4y ago

He is a true hacker. He simply had to find out if his exploit worked on the secret service. I love the story.

b3orn 4y ago

> It probably amounted to a real crime. I'm not a lawyer, I have no idea how criminal law in the USA works, but why would this be a crime? He didn't fake a Department of Defence ID, he created an ID for a fictional Department of Defiance, it may look similar, it may appear as a "real" ID because it's not just a piece of paper, but it's about as real an ID as a gym membership card.

lqet 4y ago
But you wouldn't board an international flight with your gym membership card.
- ztrww 4y ago
  I would if I could..
- rcstank 4y ago
  In 2023? No. In 198X? You didn’t even need an ID.
  - dghughes 4y ago
    I drove alone to the US from Canada for a trip in 1999 no passport (never had and still don't have one). The US Border Agents used my driver's license as proof of my ID. But they were convinced my goal was to go there to live. they tore my car apart, took everything out of luggage. They let me go but thought I was never coming back. All I was doing was going to a Thanksgiving dinner in Scranton.
    - lancepioch 4y ago
      I think it was about 2008-2009 that Canada started requiring US citizens to have their passport. Before that, they would take most US state ids.
    - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
      How do you know what they thought? And if they truly believed that why would they let you through?

AuthorizedCust 4y ago

How is that ID fake? It would have to imitate some ID issued by some organization to be fake. I think “novelty ID” may be more correct. Just like those novelty dollar bills that kind of look like real currency in some ways but still have significant distinctions.

29athrowaway 4y ago

Another interesting story from the Apple founders... https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/steve-jobs-biography-60-minutes-video-accidental-meeting-dad-252421/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/steve-jo... Steve Jobs met his biological father accidentally at a restaurant.

jejeyyy77 4y ago

People go to prison for a lot less these days.

esaym 4y ago

> It probably amounted to a real crime. Risky, but it doesn't sound like a forged government ID (driver's license, etc). It might have even had his actual name on it.

causality0 4y ago

He could also just be lying about the story.

MiddleEndian 4y ago
People don't always check IDs that well, even people whose job is 90% checking IDs. A friend of mine is a bouncer who has memorized every state's ID (he catches a lot of IDs that scan at other places) and usually gets multiple fakes a night while working. He got an obvious fake from a blond 6'2" guy. He gave it to our dark-haired 5'7" friend with a very different facial structure and told him to try it at several other bars in the area. Said friend got into every bar.

FatActor 4y ago

Just because he does "tame" things doesn't mean he's not abusing his privilege as an uber-rich white dude. He's a million times better person than Musk, but this is still immature behavior that not everyone could get away with because of what they look like. But hey, he's a hacker god so blank check I guess.

77pt77 4y ago

How the hell can you travel internationally with a fake US ID?

TheHappyOddish 4y ago
As he mentions later in the story, he also has a passport.
- 77pt77 4y ago
  He also mentioned he traveled internationally with fake ID.

zxcvbn4038 4y ago

I had a replica of the Bad Mother F#cker wallet from pulp fiction. One of the TSA people asked to see my id but I think he was so busy staring at my wallet he didn’t actually look at my id when I handed it to him.