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Florida teachers could face felony for books in classroom not approved by state
- isthisthingon99 4y agoIt seems like they have the freedom to choose books so long as the child isn't exposed to sex and racism.
- retrac 4y agoThat might be reasonable for young children. But in high school, some of the books we read were Nineteen-Eighty-Four (liberating power of sexuality is a theme), To Kill a Mockingbird (rape trial in the Jim Crow south), Huckleberry Finn (often considered racist in contemporary American society due to its frequent use of the n-word) and the Handmaid's Tale (rape and gender relations and racism). I can't really imagine how literature, or society and history for that matter, can be taught without sex and racism coming up, and frequently.
- isthisthingon99 4y agoYes I agree, for young children. That's what I thought this was about.
- ttfkam 4y agoAnd no "Watchmen", "Dune"… not even X-Men comics. Certainly not "Maus". No "Native Son", no "Farewell to Manzanar". No "The Good Earth". No "The Grapes of Wrath". No "Of Mice and Men". No "Invisible Man". No "Autobiography of Malcolm X". Absolutely none of Martin Luther King's speeches aside from "I Have a Dream". Certainly not 99% of poetry. Also would mean "Othello", "The Merchant of Venice", and all of the cross-dressing comedies like "Twelfth Night" are right out. I completely agree with you that if this is allowed to stand, it would gut education irreparably. Critical thinking is already under fire; this would drop a nuke on it.
- coffeefirst 4y agoGiven the books being targeted by this movement have included Maus and Toni Morrison, I don't see how its possible to take this in good faith. Reasonable people can disagree about what's age appropriate. Threatening teachers with a felony charge is psychotic.
- sonotathrowaway 4y agoIt’s not in good faith, it’s just a sound bite they heard that can be used to justify not thinking about it any further.
- klyrs 4y agoIf a book only featuring white people isn't racist, then a book only featuring black people isn't racist. If a book ending with a prince living happily ever after with a princess isn't about sex, then a book ending with two princes living happily ever after isn't about sex. However, these are not the standards that Florida is applying.
- troad 4y agoCan you point me towards some evidence of that? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m genuinely interested.
- spamuel 4y agoThe rule says books that are pornographic. This became an issue because teachers began putting books like "Genderqueer" in school libraries and classrooms, featuring explicit illustrations of apparently children engaging in things like fellatio on a dildo, anal sex with a strap-on, etc. This isn't about Romeo and Juliet. Do you have a better way to describe those kinds of books? Or do you support having "Genderqueer" in elementary school libraries?
- xibo9 4y agoYou repeatedly state these things as fact, and you provide zero evidence ANYWHERE in this discussion. Are you simply here to divide and generate ragebait, or are you here to engage in serious discussion?
- spamuel 4y ago[flagged]
- xrd 4y agoI'm triggered by what you say here. First, this is the most extreme example on that list. Lots of other literature is on there, do you support banning all of it, and jailing teachers that don't prevent a kid from reading it, because that is the real question. Second, you say apparently, so it sounds like you haven't read it. Perhaps you don't want to, but have you talked to someone who actually has? I've not read it, but I'm going to buy it. I went to the web page and saw the intention, which is to teach young adults (late teenagers) healthy sexual habits. If this book isn't provided to them, those kids are going to get it from alternative sources on the Internet. I mean porn. I don't mean to be "binary" (I'm happy with that pun) but it really is a choice between those two things. By the way, that book isn't directed towards children as you assert. It's on the web site and clearly intended for young adults. Big difference. When I read the book, interested in hearing my review?
- DangitBobby 4y agoIs it really freedom if you get jail time for making a bad judgement call? You are free to assign "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" to your students! Hope you didn't think "Little Bill" was appropriate.
- nine_zeros 4y agoFlorida is regressing fast.
- damagednoob 4y agoPeople are so short sighted when it comes to imposing these types of laws. Sure, they get what they want so long as their side is in power. What happens when the Republicans get voted out? Would they be okay with the Democrats having these tools at their disposal?
- klyrs 4y agoEfforts towards gerrymandering, and the tendency of people to move out of states with laws that oppress them, make such actions future-proof.
- Avshalom 4y agoAlso the extraordinary difficulty of voting in Florida if you have a felony charge.
- throwawaywu 4y agoI'm ok with convicted rapists having to sit elections out. Judicial overreach of felonies is a different discussion.
- Avshalom 4y agoMaybe the headline of this article is a clue as to which of those things is relevant here.
- throwawayacc3 4y ago>and the tendency of people to move out of states with laws that oppress them This is categorically false. More people are moving to states like Texas, Florida, and Georgia than states like California and New York. Blacks are moving in droves back to the South. https://archive.is/O426q https://archive.is/O426q
- spamuel 4y ago[flagged]
- tjpnz 4y agoIt's almost as if there were a perverse game of political brinkmanship being played among officials to see who can dole out the harsher punishments. What would motivate someone to become a teacher in this climate?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Sakos 4y agoAt this point it feels intentional. They don't want a well-educated populace. They want people who aren't capable of reasoning themselves out of a wet paper bag who'll believe anything they say.
- 8note 4y agoGiven that it's Republicans, they'd prefer people don't become teachers, and shut down the public system, and then the only teachers would be either as part of churches, or for the ultra wealthy. The motivation is then ridiculous pay or faith. That leaves out how Floridans will fare in the American service and knowledge based economy without education, but that's a problem for a different generation
- Waterluvian 4y agoThe uneducated make great voters and even better workers.
- pfannkuchen 4y agoModern education seems pretty geared towards training for: following a strict schedule, having a boss, doing work that appears useless, etc.
- Waterluvian 4y agoCan’t speak for all regions. My Canadian public school experience was quite different.
- behringer 4y agoTeachers should buy a locked glass cabinet and make sure it's lit well and titled, "banned information the politicians in charge don't want you to know."
- spamuel 4y agoGonna be a lot of books about sexual dimorphism and crime statistics in there.
- vkou 4y agoWhich states felonize these, exactly? Just because you'd like to turn this into both sides, doesn't mean it is. The extremists running most of the south don't even bother with even a fig leaf of consistency. Not that it's a new phenomena. The founding fathers were throwing shade on this, with Jefferson calling it: "zealous of their own liberties but trampling on those of others".
- spamuel 4y agoShowing pornography to children? Presumably all states. Oh, you meant on sexual dimorphism and crime statistics? None. It's not even clear that Florida now criminalizes those discussions. But you would certainly be fired in California if you dared to biologically define human beings, or discuss incarceration rates as a product of criminal tendency.
- AlexandrB 4y agoAnd criminal tendency is just innate? Or is it also caused by socio-economic and historical factors? Just because you want to stop asking "why" at "criminal tendency", doesn't mean the rest of us aren't curious.
- spamuel 4y agoDo I? I have no idea if criminal tendency is innate. And frankly I think such a discussion has no place in K-12 education, even if it were just a plain fact that black people were somehow inherently predisposed to criminality. They're Americans, they're part of our mix. But 12 year olds do not have the reasoning capacity to handle that issue. It's not "age-appropriate" for 12 year olds to be introduced to such topics in elementary school. Just like gender theory.
- decremental 4y agoThe reason why this outrage story is barely upvoted or commented on is because even HNers don't believe the media spin on this. Sure, a vanishing few still lack the faculties to see through it but this shows a lot of progress.
- jmclnx 4y agoI for one would like to thank Florida for helping the Children of my State. Why ? By teaching "my way or the highway" as opposed to different viewpoints, the poor kids in Florida will not learn critical thinking. FL children will not be able to easily determine the correct action when faced with opposing viewpoints. All they will have is to decide based upon what is in the Bible. So, Thank You FL for helping the children in my state to have a leg up in climbing the economic ladder.
- bmn__ 4y agoI'm sitting here, thinking: the poor FL children. They are thrown under the proverbial bus, have done nothing to deserve the bad treatment by the state, cannot defend against it, and you in response write something that comes across as gloating or callousness. Where's the compassion?
- za3faran 4y agoLet's be honest here, what's wrong with their list of prohibited books? From the article: * Pornography * Instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity in grades kindergarten through three. * Discrimination in such a way that “an individual, by virtue of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin is inherently racist or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously. I don't want to straw man, but what's the argument here? That these things should not be prohibited for children?
- bb88 4y agoIt's one thing if you want to make sharing of prurient materials to children a crime, and that already is, frankly. But the other two, you're really okay with Florida making a felony out of the other two? * Pornography ... is defined in the eye of the beholder. Anything can be deemed pornographic by anyone anytime. Are Judy Blume books pornographic? https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1004/obscenity-and-pornography https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1004/obscenity-... * Instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity in grades kindergarten through three Children are sometimes born with ambiguous genitalia at birth. Doctors used to perform sex assignment surgery at birth but no longer. So you can't help a child figure out their gender at a young age? That doesn't seem felony worthy frankly. * Discrimination in such a way that “an individual... Again.. who decides? Are Nazi's bad? Are WWII books about Nazi's bad? Would films about the holocaust be bad? Also not felony worthy.
- 1attice 4y agoTeam Free Speech certainly looks a lot like Team Hypocrisy
- throwawaywu 4y agoWhen government is buying the books for our children, it's ok to be cautious. What I have seen is that parents are objecting their young children being sexualized with taxpayer money.
- 1attice 4y agoDude I'm literally gay. Do you think your kids need to be "protected" from knowing I exist? Is knowing stories featuring gay people a form of sexualization? This is the thinking that rubberized playgrounds. Your precious children are in the world. Deal with it. -- EDIT: @dang has established that I'm 'posting too fast' every 37 minutes. Dang, we see you. Here's my reply: Because some of those children are like me and would benefit, as as I would have, from access to actual, true information, so they don't kill themselves, like I almost did. You think you're saving your kids. You're traumatizing them.
- zozbot234 4y agoDo you think kids honestly care in the least about anyone's sexual preferences or orientations? They haven't even started to approach the timeframe for going through that kind of biological development. Some things should just be kept private by default and reserved for whenever more nuanced discussion becomes possible, with proper content warnings being given beforehand. Let's not sexualize people without meaningful consent.
- Atheros 4y agoGP asked two very simple yes/no questions. I think you should answer them before he answers yours.
- 4y ago
- chmod600 4y agoWhile concerning, I think I'd need to know more before I go into outrage mode. This seems to be about grades 3 and lower. What kind of materials would really be both (a) prosecutable under this statute and (b) not reasonably a crime to present to 7 year olds? My guess is teachers are worried about "two dads/moms" kind of kids books or something? Is it realistic that such things would be prosecuted as felonies?
- olliej 4y agoIn Florida, a state where the legislature has decided to do everything that they can to make it illegal to be anywhere on the lgbt spectrum? Very high.
- b0sk 4y agoThese guys incessantly whine about cancel culture but the biggest abusers of it.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoThose in power get to decide which view points are worth discouraging.
- pvaldes 4y agoFlorida teachers may consider to fight the origin of the problem, join in a political party and return some of the pain to all the George Santos wannaqueenbees. Teachers have at least a real curriculum to show. The goal is not so much about winning than as reducing the voters pool offering an option that does not look like a freakshow. The problem would self-resolve in hours.
- lgbrandon 4y agoThis is great! Kids should just be kids not have an agenda shoved down there throats!
- lambda_lord 4y agoThose in power decide what constitutes an acceptable agenda. What can go wrong there? You can already see from the books banned it's not being equally applied. It's the same "protect the children!" farce we've seen countless times. See the forest for the trees, it's just to control information and erase the fact LGBTQ people exist.
- albertopv 4y agoSarcasm? Because that's exactly what is happening, republicans using kids for their agenda.