6 ms·

They ask you for an email address when you buy a high ticket price product (which, let's face it, is basically all products). I understand you're upset, but sa

by dijit 4y ago

They ask you for an email address when you buy a high ticket price product (which, let's face it, is basically all products). I understand you're upset, but sadly I have to say to you that this is working as intended. 1) You bought a machine and can't prove it. 2) You enabled authentication which you lost 3) You also lost your backup to the account How can they help you? How can anyone help you? You've made it nearly impossible to distinguish yourself from a thief or random stranger.

Terretta 4y ago
I'm not upset. I can prove it to a remarkable degree with the welcome email 3 days after this model was launched. I didn't lose backup to account. I'd already migrated to the latest M1 MacBook, and my account is fine. There's appears to me to be no backup to the firmware lock, there is a backup to FileVault, I have file vault. I get it and am not complaining. But person above me said it wasn't a real problem. My point is, it can be a $4500 problem for a legitimate purchaser.
- RobertRoberts 4y ago
  Can you sell it to a friend, give him a legitimate receipt (from you) and have him go to Apple? (seems like a hack, but it checks the ownership box for your friend)
  - zakki 4y ago
    This is a good advice to try. Ask someone to buy it from your eBay list. Using that receipt ask Apple to unlock the laptop.
    - RobertRoberts 4y ago
      It would seem nearly bonkers that this would work though.
- godzillabrennus 4y ago
  Maybe try and take Apple to small claims court for not honoring the warranty?
trinsic2 4y ago
Activation Lock creates undue friction during the ownership transfer. This kind of security should be tied to something like removable storage device where the users data is stored, not the main device itself. That way when the owner dies or loses acess then said owner only loses acess to the data and not the entire device. IMHO this is Apple trying to force people to purchase new devices and prevent reuse. It doesn't matter what is intended on the surface, but what the actual outcome is. This causes more waste and it's not helpful to the environment. If you are serious about protecting user data tie it to hardware security that can be decoupled from the device itself. I'm in the business of repairing computers.Apple is setting bad precedence on multiple fronts, More than any other company in existence.
- hotstickyballs 4y ago
  I’d rather not make my belongings such valuable targets for theft
- alphabettsy 4y ago
  That defeats the entire purpose of the feature. I want my computer to be unusable if stolen.
  - trinsic2 4y ago
    It's my understanding that the purpose is to protect data. It has a secondary effect of preventing use of the device. The goal of reuse and preventing device use are incompatible.
    - rahoulb 4y ago
      Activation Lock started on iPhones and the purpose was to discourage theft, as people were having them ripped out of their hands and then sold on.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      Everyone supports the concept of reuse. But most of us don't want to extend the courtesy to petty criminals.
jjav 4y ago
> How can they help you? How can anyone help you? Well, that's the fundamental problem. With open hardware that you fully and completely own when you buy it, such problems are impossible. The move towards hardware (mostly by Apple but not unique to them) that remains firmly in control of the vendor even after you buy it... is not a good one. It means your ownership is relatively ephemeral, any wrong move (or bug) and it's no longer yours to use. Not a world I want to live in.
- tshaddox 4y ago
  > Well, that's the fundamental problem. A better problem, some may say, than having a thriving market for stolen laptops. > Not a world I want to live in. But a world many may prefer to the world with a thriving market for stolen laptops.
  - 988747 4y ago
    > A better problem, some may say, than having a thriving market for stolen laptops. Some may say that, because having their laptop stolen is a problem they actually experienced. Having your device remain owned by a vendor, who only "licenses" it for you to use opens up a whole new world of problems, some of which average person can't even imagine.
    - kaba0 4y ago
      Isn’t that quite a slippery slope to call it licensing?
    - gretch 4y ago
      > Having your device remain owned by a vendor, who only "licenses" it for you to use opens up a whole new world of problems, some of which average person can't even imagine. Actually, everyone experiences this right now. Macbooks are working like this. And 99% of people are fine with it. We don't have to imagine anything
      - jjav 4y ago
wang_li 4y ago
> How can they help you? How can anyone help you? They literally can, but are choosing not to. If there is concern about stolen devices, then there could be a way for victims of theft to submit such information to apple and then when someone wants to purchase a used laptop they could check whether it's stolen. They could also provide a mechanism by which a laptop could be submitted for unlocking and sits in the request queue for three months pending someone saying "that's mine!" At the end of the day it's bullshit that functional laptops are going into the trash stream for artificial reasons. There should be a tax of 10x the highest global retail price of the device assessed against the manufacturer.
zakki 4y ago
Why that the device is listed in his My Find account not a proof of the ownership?
threatofrain 4y ago
My folks also bought a Mac from an Apple Store with an active credit card. When the laptop was stolen and recovered by the police, it had some kind of boot lock on it. They refused acknowledgement of the credit card because they say it could’ve been stolen and they refused state ID as it could’ve been stolen or forged. They refused acknowledgement of documentation from the police. They said it was my folks fault for putting the boot lock on as it warns you, but my folks weren’t the ones who did that. I didn’t even know that boot lock existed until then. This experience was in the same original Apple store my folks purchased the computer, which is why I presumed state ID and original credit card would’ve been adequate. Unfortunately my folks had made themselves indistinguishable from foreign intelligence. The amusing thing is that if they're so worried about forged government ID's and stolen credit cards, then how on earth can they trust a receipt? Unlike a government ID, your face isn't on it.

by dijit 4y ago

Terretta 4y ago

I'm not upset. I can prove it to a remarkable degree with the welcome email 3 days after this model was launched. I didn't lose backup to account. I'd already migrated to the latest M1 MacBook, and my account is fine. There's appears to me to be no backup to the firmware lock, there is a backup to FileVault, I have file vault. I get it and am not complaining. But person above me said it wasn't a real problem. My point is, it can be a $4500 problem for a legitimate purchaser.

RobertRoberts 4y ago
Can you sell it to a friend, give him a legitimate receipt (from you) and have him go to Apple? (seems like a hack, but it checks the ownership box for your friend)
- zakki 4y ago
  This is a good advice to try. Ask someone to buy it from your eBay list. Using that receipt ask Apple to unlock the laptop.
  - RobertRoberts 4y ago
    It would seem nearly bonkers that this would work though.
godzillabrennus 4y ago
Maybe try and take Apple to small claims court for not honoring the warranty?

trinsic2 4y ago

Activation Lock creates undue friction during the ownership transfer. This kind of security should be tied to something like removable storage device where the users data is stored, not the main device itself. That way when the owner dies or loses acess then said owner only loses acess to the data and not the entire device. IMHO this is Apple trying to force people to purchase new devices and prevent reuse. It doesn't matter what is intended on the surface, but what the actual outcome is. This causes more waste and it's not helpful to the environment. If you are serious about protecting user data tie it to hardware security that can be decoupled from the device itself. I'm in the business of repairing computers.Apple is setting bad precedence on multiple fronts, More than any other company in existence.

hotstickyballs 4y ago
I’d rather not make my belongings such valuable targets for theft
alphabettsy 4y ago
That defeats the entire purpose of the feature. I want my computer to be unusable if stolen.
- trinsic2 4y ago
  It's my understanding that the purpose is to protect data. It has a secondary effect of preventing use of the device. The goal of reuse and preventing device use are incompatible.
  - rahoulb 4y ago
    Activation Lock started on iPhones and the purpose was to discourage theft, as people were having them ripped out of their hands and then sold on.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    Everyone supports the concept of reuse. But most of us don't want to extend the courtesy to petty criminals.

jjav 4y ago

> How can they help you? How can anyone help you? Well, that's the fundamental problem. With open hardware that you fully and completely own when you buy it, such problems are impossible. The move towards hardware (mostly by Apple but not unique to them) that remains firmly in control of the vendor even after you buy it... is not a good one. It means your ownership is relatively ephemeral, any wrong move (or bug) and it's no longer yours to use. Not a world I want to live in.

tshaddox 4y ago
> Well, that's the fundamental problem. A better problem, some may say, than having a thriving market for stolen laptops. > Not a world I want to live in. But a world many may prefer to the world with a thriving market for stolen laptops.
- 988747 4y ago
  > A better problem, some may say, than having a thriving market for stolen laptops. Some may say that, because having their laptop stolen is a problem they actually experienced. Having your device remain owned by a vendor, who only "licenses" it for you to use opens up a whole new world of problems, some of which average person can't even imagine.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    Isn’t that quite a slippery slope to call it licensing?
  - gretch 4y ago
    > Having your device remain owned by a vendor, who only "licenses" it for you to use opens up a whole new world of problems, some of which average person can't even imagine. Actually, everyone experiences this right now. Macbooks are working like this. And 99% of people are fine with it. We don't have to imagine anything
    - jjav 4y ago

wang_li 4y ago

> How can they help you? How can anyone help you? They literally can, but are choosing not to. If there is concern about stolen devices, then there could be a way for victims of theft to submit such information to apple and then when someone wants to purchase a used laptop they could check whether it's stolen. They could also provide a mechanism by which a laptop could be submitted for unlocking and sits in the request queue for three months pending someone saying "that's mine!" At the end of the day it's bullshit that functional laptops are going into the trash stream for artificial reasons. There should be a tax of 10x the highest global retail price of the device assessed against the manufacturer.

zakki 4y ago

Why that the device is listed in his My Find account not a proof of the ownership?

threatofrain 4y ago

My folks also bought a Mac from an Apple Store with an active credit card. When the laptop was stolen and recovered by the police, it had some kind of boot lock on it. They refused acknowledgement of the credit card because they say it could’ve been stolen and they refused state ID as it could’ve been stolen or forged. They refused acknowledgement of documentation from the police. They said it was my folks fault for putting the boot lock on as it warns you, but my folks weren’t the ones who did that. I didn’t even know that boot lock existed until then. This experience was in the same original Apple store my folks purchased the computer, which is why I presumed state ID and original credit card would’ve been adequate. Unfortunately my folks had made themselves indistinguishable from foreign intelligence. The amusing thing is that if they're so worried about forged government ID's and stolen credit cards, then how on earth can they trust a receipt? Unlike a government ID, your face isn't on it.