12 ms·

Poll: Do you think HN should go dark in protest of SOPA?

• rooshdi 15y ago
  Definitely. If we can't even bite the bullet ourselves, how can we expect others to as well? This isn't about HN, this is greater than that. This is about freedom of life as we know it. Without freedom of information, there is no such thing as freedom period. HN going down would be a powerful display of protest and commitment to freedom. Possibly, even the greatest thing HN has ever done.
• ajaimk 15y ago
  No. Despite the statement that will be made by HN were it to go dark, this should be done on a website that gets traffic from the general population that is not aware of the situation. Most people on HN know about SOPA, where as most people on FB, Google or Tumblr don't. Should HN go dark? Yes! Would it be effective? No!
• rubiety 15y ago
  The point of going dark is to announce to bystanders the peril. Everyone who reads Hacker News already knows the peril...
• yangez 15y ago
  Anyone who cares about Hacker News already opposes SOPA. Anyone who supports SOPA would be glad to see Hacker News down for a day. What's the point of shutting down Hacker News again?
  • LesZedCB 15y ago
    I think it's supposed to be for solidarity. It's not to raise awareness on HN as much as show that we are right there with the others.
    • msg 15y ago
      It's going to be a pretty painful day for HN readers without it. But this might be a good thing. We will have to struggle through a day's worth of a world without HN and be motivated to do something about it. +1 for blackout for me.
• joshmanders 15y ago
  I don't see how that'd benefit a community like Hacker News.
• kayluhb 15y ago
  Probably not. Nobody would notice except people who already don't support it.
• Detrus 15y ago
  HN could go dark with Reddit to see what happens when nerds have nowhere to hang out.
  • jerrya 15y ago
    I think Paul Graham and the Admins of Reddit should go around Silicon Valley and ask to be paid to take HN and Reddit down for the last three weeks of every quarter.
    • sumukh1 15y ago
      I've got to say, that's a cunning business model. Give away the addicting product. Sell the (temporary) antidote.
• BjoernKW 15y ago
  Absolutely yes. Sure, most Hacker News readers know about SOPA but how many of those have actively opposed that bill yet? Raising awareness can't be bad, especially as this probably is the last opportunity to effectively take a stand in this matter.
• insickness 15y ago
  Everyone is going to say how this is preaching to the choir. But I think it's good if it goes black so the largest news media has even more of a story. It's one thing if just Reddit goes black, that will be a big news story. But it's another thing if many sites on the internet go black. Come to think of it, I may do this with my website as well. It's no hacker news or Reddit, but it's a good day to do it.
  • trotsky 15y ago
    reddit is down all day multiple times a year and it's never a "big news story"
    • Samuel_Michon 15y ago
      According to that logic, it wouldn't matter either if Twitter, Google Apps, Blackberry Messenger, iCloud+Siri, and Dropbox were to shut down for the day...
      • trotsky 15y ago
        Kind of a bad comparison - BBM messenger being down WAS a big news story, twitter & google apps aren't down all day multiple times a year and while I'm not sure about the reliability of siri or dropbox I'm pretty sure neither of them being offline would be a "huge news story", unless your idea of a huge news story is one that's covered by betabeat
      • noinput 15y ago
        Don't forget Verizon's LTE network.
    • trotsky 15y ago
      Heh, the new to activism hive mind is strong here.
• fleitz 15y ago
  We should have an erlang day on jan 18th
  • mkr-hn 15y ago
    Erlang is about all HN could talk about in a post-SOPA world without risking shutdown.
    • randomdata 15y ago
      That is, until someone shares Erlang: the Movie [1], then it is game over. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKfKtXYLG78 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKfKtXYLG78
• Samuel_Michon 15y ago
  1) The more sites decide to shut down on the 18th, the easier it becomes for major websites like Google, Twitter, and Facebook to join. It also increases the chances that this is going to be covered by the mainstream media. 2) Perhaps a blackout will give some HNers the final push (and time) to make some phone calls to their representatives. 3) It can serve as a demonstration of what the web will be like if SOPA kicks in. Many HNers think that SOPA is a bad idea, a blackout will make us feel it as well.
  • seanp2k2 15y ago
    What he said on all accounts.
  • mkings 15y ago
    "2) Perhaps a blackout will give some HNers the final push (and time) to make some phone calls to their representatives." Besides, it'll give us something to do!
  • pestaa 15y ago
    What's the probability that major websites join the movement? One one hand a 24-hour outage would result in loss of a couple of bucks, but on the other, they in fact participated in the IPv6 day, so I'm not sure.
    • tobtoh 15y ago
      One of the proposals I saw was not a complete blackout but for a interstitial notice to be inserted for 30 seconds (that can't be cancelled). I prefer such a proposal because if you need to look up critical info, you still can.
      • tomjen3 15y ago
        If they do that, I will make an extention to get around it. The only way to get a bad law stopped is to destroy the people behind it.
    • kuahyeow 15y ago
• vaksel 15y ago
  HN itself? No All the startups/sites that everyone on here runs? Absolutely You don't even have to go 100% dark, you can just have a splash telling your users about SOPA. You need to realize
  • Samuel_Michon 15y ago
    Show, don't tell. For most viewers, just showing a notice explaining SOPA will be too abstract. Shutting down your site or service, while putting up a notice, has a higher chance of bringing the point home.
    • makeramen 15y ago
      I think you got it backwards. Just displaying a notice is "telling." Actually shutting down is "showing" by doing.
      • Samuel_Michon 15y ago
        In case it wasn't clear from my previous post: we're in agreement. Show, by taking content and services down. Tell, by putting up an explanation of SOPA and what folks can do to stop it.
  • crgt 15y ago
    Perhaps on that day, HN blacks out all normal content and instead just features a list of all the sites that have gone black in protest? Could let users submit URLs to be added to the list.
    • jitendra_ 15y ago
      Agree with that. Besides featuring the list of sites gone black in protest, HN could also display pointers to effects of SOPA (for non-regular HN visitors), contact info for Congress representatives.
    • deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
• KoryFerbet 15y ago
  The only reason I would say "NO" is because I'll miss HN for the day. That being said, it's the right thing to do. There needs to be solidarity shown throughout all web companies. It's the only way to win.
• Arubis 15y ago
  Between the "preaching to the choir" and "solidarity" arguments, I basically come out even. But I think HN, being fairly low-profile to mainstreamers and very much full of our SOPA-fearing choir, could serve as the place that we can rely on to continue having an intelligent conversation w/r/t SOPA while everything else is blacked out.
• courtewing 15y ago
  I've seen a lot of people argue that sites like Hacker News shouldn't engage in a protest like this on the grounds that most of its audience probably already supports the protest's cause. I think this is a fundamentally flawed view about the nature of protesting. It is without question that the most effective protests are those that have direct impacts on the opposition and its supporters, but protesting is bigger than that. It is about trying to be heard just as much as it is about being heard. It is about speaking your mind and standing behind things you believe in even when your protest may fall on deaf ears. For that reason, the overwhelming amount of people within the Hacker News community that oppose SOPA is the perfect reason TO join in the protest. I would miss Hacker News for the day, but I would take great pride in being a part of a community that stands up for what it believes in.
• nerdfiles 15y ago
  It's a symbolic gesture. I believe this leads to a fundamental question of whether it's essential to the kind of political movement we represent. So for instance democrats depend on notion of symbolic representation to ground their concept of political representation. Without the former, the latter becomes vacuous. "What kind of advantage does it give us?" seems to be the question. Perhaps it's a moral boost? In the political game, it technically says nothing. In perhaps our own schema of doing things, it technically says nothing. But the idea that people use these tools and can intentionally limit themselves (like with Freedom, the app that locks yr Internet connection) to represent freedom.
• polshaw 15y ago
  Something to consider - if HN doesn't go dark it may become a refugee camp for a good chunk of bored reddit users (c. 70m daily pageviews), which could lead to a radical change in HN's userbase. Good to support, too.
  • kevinh 15y ago
    On the other hand - publicity gained by going dark along with reddit would raise the amount of people who were aware of HN and could cause more people to come here. Either way, I don't think it's that big of a concern.
    • polshaw 15y ago
      I think the effect of people being aware of HN would be quite different from that of HN being available whilst reddit wasn't. Essentially HN is not as 'good' at doing what reddit does (because it's not meant to), so increased awareness isn't likely to shift people from reddit. Take away reddit and things change. It will be interesting to see the effect on the web without reddit for a day. With no serious Digg these days, HN would be high on the list of alternatives (even though it is not aimed as such), and there will no doubt be a lot of SOPA posting that day.
    • Samuel_Michon 15y ago
      "publicity gained by going dark along with reddit would raise the amount of people who were aware of HN and could cause more people to come here." I know it's elitist, but I have no wish for this community to get exponentially larger.
      • bbrizzi 15y ago
        I love how there's an unwritten rule to never talk about HN on Reddit. I never even saw it mentioned, and myself try to avoid mentioning it while I see talks about Reddit and proof that a lot of HNers are former redditors almost daily on this site.
  • Forrest7778 15y ago
• vigilanteweb 15y ago
  I like the solidarity angle. I think that it would be great if there was information about how HNers could use their voice to affect change. Similar to how americancensorship.org gives visitors instructions on how to do something about it.
• Apreche 15y ago
  No because anyone who already reads HN already knows SOPA. The only thing that will be effective is if sites that normal non-tech people visit go dark.
  • Lukeas14 15y ago
    We can't ask "normal non-tech people" sites to go dark if we're not willing to ourselves. Even if few HNers will learn anything new it still sets a good example.
  • eob 15y ago
    Making a public stand isn't just about using shock-and-awe to create an educational moment. It's also about making headlines and showing solidarity. Despite the fact that the majority of HN readers already know about SOPA, I think it's an excellent idea for these other reasons. It might also be an opportunity to get some of us off our butts and use the time we spend reading HN each day to call our representatives in congress instead.
    • steve-howard 15y ago
      But where am I going to find the headlines?!
    • pbhjpbhj 15y ago
      >Making a public stand isn't [...] [is] also about making headlines and showing solidarity. So you think that HN being off for a few hours will make headlines in the worlds newspapers and on the main TV channels? Maybe as an "some tech websites were also offline [and nothing important was lost]" or maybe even (given the quality of some press) "other illegal hacking sites were down in protest against the bill". I don't have a representative in congress but nonetheless expect congress is already pushing a similar law for my country. I find the idea lacks any force as a demonstration.
      • mcherm 15y ago
        No, I believe it will alter how the news media writes their story about the Reddit blackout. "Tech sites do blackout" vs "Wacky site shuts itself off for a day".
• linguistbreaker 15y ago
  Yeah, and do your best to shut everything else on the internet down too.
• badclient 15y ago
  Is it just me or when I read "dark", my instinct is to think "down." More likely it will probably be replaced with something SOPA-related, may be even interactive? So net, we'll still probably be here, just as engaged, but focused on this one thing for a day. All of a sudden this doesn't sound too bad nor meaningless.
• grandalf 15y ago
  Why is shutting down considered a good method of protest. Why not just donate money to the political opponents of those who support SOPA? SOPA is about money, not about public opinion.
  • sukuriant 15y ago
    Because people vote for the politicians in power. If they want to get re-elected, they need to follow what their voters want. At least, that's the idea. Plus, it adds shame to the politician if he supports something that his constituents hate. For people filled with the pride of being a politician, some good old-fashioned shame could work wonders.
  • Samuel_Michon 15y ago
    Politicians and large corporations spend money to shape public opinion. People, when united, can change public opinion without spending a dime. Politicians and large corporations are given power by the public.
• rayhano 15y ago
  Because the law-makers in the USA are really going to be concerned that a website they have never heard of, frequented by a community of people who probably don't donate too much into their campaign pockets, has gone 'off the air'... Right... go for it...
• carucez 15y ago
  Let's make the headlines read: "Hundreds of the largest web sites went black today in protest of SOPA" The more black sites, the more powerful the message. It really needs to be pervasive, and it can't be limited to just tech companies.
• joshuahedlund 15y ago
  I'm all for solidarity, symbolism, awareness, etc. but even though you and I and everyone who has ever caused more than two requests from this server knows that "Hacker News" has nothing to do with illegitimate activities, I'm just scared that our technologically-challenged Congressional representatives will hear about us and get the vague idea that "hackers are blacking out the Internet cuz they don't like this anti-piracy bill".
• sandhu13 15y ago
  HN should go dark to protest SOPA. Its all about sending THE message. Every bit helps and this gesture from HN will go a long way.
• dasage 15y ago
  Anyone else think the 5 year PRISON sentence SOPA is proposing is just a tad hefty? lil bit?
• Jayasimhan 15y ago
  HN is a very small group of people. Its not worth the blackout. Infact we need it to be up to keep ourselves updated on that day. Instead, create labels [the mailing labels] named 'Stop SOPA' that can be stuck on our shirts. That'll create some awareness and easy to distribute.
• robryan 15y ago
  I don't think it's true that everyone who browses HN knows everything about SOPA. Sure everyone who reads a chunk of articles daily and comments knowns all about it and are agreeing amongst themselves that everyone knows. I think there would be a massive long tail of busy people, occasional lurkers and those that are new to stuff covered by HN or it's only a hobby.
• orbitingpluto 15y ago
  I voted yes. But I think HN should populate the days articles with tongue-in-cheek titles like: The article titled "New start-up to disrupt <INSERT SOPA SUPPORTER HERE> business model" has been taken down to SOPA compliance concerns. and, "All hail our mighty overlord: <INSERT SOPA SUPPORTER HERE>" and, "The failure of democracy and the rise of corporatism! Would you like to know more?"
• dredmorbius 15y ago
  You make symbolic gestures because ... they're symbolic. They're going to be recognized directly by those who utilize whatever it is that's being sacrificed. And more widely, reporting on the issue (because that's where the symbolism hits the road, so to speak), is going to take note that "demonstrating support and solidarity with the anti-SOPA movement, numerous websites, including <list here> went dark for the day". For HN to be in that list will add to its weight. At least somewhat. And, well, we're all talking about this. Here on HN. Go do something useful and have this debate elsewhere. Hrm: Perhaps I should petition Krell Power Systems to go dark in support. But man is that power-up sequence a pain afterwards. You know what? It's still worth it.
• shaggyfrog 15y ago
  It's whistling in the dark. The people who know about SOPA, or should know about SOPA, don't frequent HN. They use Google and Facebook. The people who are in charge of legislating SOPA, or voting on it, are similarly not effected. I think Wikipedia should black out each legislator's page with a big "SOPA WILL CENSOR THE INTERNET" notice. That will get the attention of the 6 o'clock news more than some evil hacker news site doing a "protest". After all, what senator's ego could bear having their Wikipedia page defaced?
• jeremyarussell 15y ago
  I say Yay... Protests are heard the loudest when more people join them. I get that us being down isn't quite as informative to the public as say, facebook going down or google dropping out for a day but as other have already stated if we join others are more likely to follow. It's the classic timid group effect (I doubt that's what it's actually called.) You know, when there are ten people being asked to volunteer an answer to a question, and no one answers until that one guy raises his hand, then suddenly everyone else has something to say. We need to be part of the first, not for us but to get others to throw their voices (or in this case, 0's and 1's.) behind the cause.
• squarecat 15y ago
  If only because the effort has to approach the magnitude of all or nothing, otherwise it will likely be fruitless.
• kissickas 15y ago
  As usual, I should have read the comments before voting. I voted No because everyone here is already against SOPA, but I see that it can be about more than that.
• johnohara 15y ago
  No. I like the exclusion from HN consideration policy better. Has longer-lasting ramifications to it.
• kevinalexbrown 15y ago
  I wanted to vote no, because it seems so Pyrrhic, maybe a little gimmicky: "See, we shut down a site you don't use!" But if you're asking people to make a sacrifice you're not willing to make yourself, you're a bad leader, period. I'm not saying HN is the bastion of the tech world. But if we're upvoting the Reddit shutdown (at least I did), and we can't turn around and do it ourselves, well, we're not made of very tough stuff after all.
  • jlogsdon 15y ago
    You make a great point and I changed my vote because of this. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
  • erikj54 15y ago
    I too agree with your view point. While it may seem like it would be a loss, it may be a first step in getting larger sites on board. It would seem impossible for sites like TechCrunch not to cover a Reedit blackout, as well as HN. If more momentum is gained perhaps the attention of congress could be reached and we can feel like we stood together.
  • hanula 15y ago
    I agree with you and although I am not U.S. citizen and I read HN several times a day (so it will be a hard day without it) I give you full support in this action. Just go ahead and fight!
  • zerostar07 15y ago
    Pragmatically speaking, maybe YC could come up with a statement threatening to move businesses outside the US to circumvent some of the provisions of the law. Shutting down HN - i doubt any congressman is in here to notice. In any case i could use a daily detoxification, so yes. p.s. Pyrrhic is not the right word, maybe futile
    • Samuel_Michon 15y ago
      The expression "Pyrrhic victory" is also used to describe a triumph of little consequence. I'd say the way GP used it is correct. If you unroot a tree in a forest with your bare hands, but there's no one around to see it, will you get applause? Edit: Blah, I couldn't find any sources to back up my earlier statement. It's just how I've often used the phrase. My bad, I stand corrected.
• revorad 15y ago
  If HN going dark can inspire other popular sites to go dark too, then it would be great. Otherwise, we'll just have a tree falling in the forest situation. I understand the solidarity point, but we need results here. The aim is to stop SOPA, not just protest against it in a private corner of the internet.
• udit39 15y ago
  No, you raise your voice not go dark in protest
• ggwicz 15y ago
  A blackout would suck because I love checking HN throughout the day. That's exactly why we should have the blackout, because that's a small taste of the nonsense that could come from SOPA in relation to many other sites we all check daily.
• ggwicz 15y ago
  A blackout would suck because I love checking HN throughout the day. That's exactly why we should have the blackout, because that's a small taste of the nonsense that could come from SOPA in relation to many other sites we all check daily.
• cheald 15y ago
  Absolutely. HN's effectively dead if SOPA passes. I know that there aren't a lot of SOPA supporters that use it, but as I said elsewhere, the point of a blackout isn't to punish supporters - it's to motivate people to get involved against SOPA. If your favorite site is inaccessible in protest of SOPA, it might get you more involved in fighting it, which is the whole point.
  • tzs 15y ago
    > HN's effectively dead if SOPA passes How so? I'm having trouble recalling offhand anything posted to HN that would cause HN to run into SOPA trouble.
    • jmonegro 15y ago
      Say someone posts a link to a website that shows a technical description of how to crack some form of DRM, which is something a good portion of the HN audience would be interested in. One of the companies that use that DRM could get HN shut down.
      • tzs 15y ago
        I don't see how. The meat of SOPA is sections 102 and 103. Section 102 only applies to foreign sites so is not applicable. Section 103 applies to any site, foreign or domestic, that is a site "dedicated to the theft of US property". What it means to be "dedicated to the theft of US property" is defined in 103(a)(1), and can be found here at loc.gov: http://tinyurl.com/3lvuqc4 http://tinyurl.com/3lvuqc4 (I used tinyurl.com because the real URL ends in a colon, and HN seems to have trouble with that). It certainly doesn't appear on first reading that HN would fall under this. The worst it appears this would do to HN is cause some hassle if content owners filed false notifications that HN had to waste time replying to. However, 103(b)(6) makes knowingly misrepresenting that a site is "dedicated to the theft of US property" in such a notice subject the filer to liability for damages and attorney's fees. I haven't been through the whole bill, so maybe there is some other section that would put HN at risk? edit: changed link to higher up in the bill. The link to the specific section was only good for 30 minutes.
• slaven 15y ago
  Yes, so I can get some work done on the 18th (..and it makes a good statement from us as a community!)
• jay_kyburz 15y ago
  When we talk about going dark we are talking about US viewers only right? I have no power to change SOPA so there is no point protesting to me.
  • rbanffy 15y ago
    I proudly join my fellow protesters in the US, despite living elsewhere. The ideals they defend are mine and I stand by their side.
    • jay_kyburz 15y ago
      Shouldn't we be secretly hoping it will pass so that these big US companies will have to move their operations overseas to our countries?
      • rbanffy 15y ago
        Bad legislation is contagious.
  • tghw 15y ago
    This bill will not just affect those of us who live in the US. And there's not really any reason you can't send letters to US representatives anyways. At worst they might ignore them. Or, you can contact your country's ambassador to the US and ask them to weigh in on the matter. These actions might not have any effect, but it's better than just throwing your hands up in the air.
• goodweeds 15y ago
  Yes because a lot of wealthy people visit Hacker News. Angels, VCs, startup founders, hackers who had good exits, etc. If politics are owned by wealthy corporations and individuals, then let's throw some money against SOPA.
• dthunt 15y ago
  Do you guys not remember the blue ribbon campaign? The practice is to blacken your page. Force someone to read a "WTF IS THIS ABOUT?" and then pass them through to your usual service (still themed in black)
• dreamux 15y ago
  We should also consider the media message we'd be sending to the uninformed. A site called Hacker News opposes SOPA; what do you think the average person's response to that would be? Frankly I think that HN is the wrong vehicle to bring attention to the matter strictly from a marketing/outreach perspective. However, YC is a great channel to carry this message, and PG has already taken a very public stance on the issue.
  • lsc 15y ago
    Personally, I think this co-option of "hacker" to mean "semi-technical entrepreneur" is at best silly, and at worst leads to the sort of confusion of which you speak. Personally, I thought the hacker dojo should have been called "The Mountain View Computer Club" - it's got a nice retro feel. I mean, I'm a member, and I like the place, the people, and the organisation, but the name is unfortunate. I think this is a separate discussion from reclaiming "hacker" to mean "technologist" - Hacker news is about semi-technical entrepreneurs, and we are rather different from people of similar technical skill levels that are not entrepreneurial. That's an important distinction. I mean, I introduce myself as "the tall guy" as a reference to "Every technical business has a tall dumb guy and a short smart guy." - It would be useful, I think, to have a word for 'semi-technical business guy" because while my compatriots could also call themselves hackers, I usually act in the semi-technical business guy role. (I mean, outside of my peer group, I'm a semi-business technical guy of unremarkable height- obviously, this is a continuum.)
    • enjalot 15y ago
      This is kind of off topic but imho "everyone else" coopted hacker away from those of us who consider ourselves hackers. And for the record I don't consider semi-technical entrepreneur to be the definition of hacker I apply to myself. For me it's more about someone who can take two things and make something new with them, regardless if they should be able to or not. In any case, its a form of cultural identity, so its up to those who identify with it to define it. If the mainstream doesn't recognize it, its our responsibility to fix that.
      • 15y ago
• rbanffy 15y ago
  I'd love if Cloudflare had a No-SOPA switch I could easily set to make my site go dark when the day comes. I am sure others will want it too. Anyone from Cloudflare here?
• JonnieCache 15y ago
  Why not? Worst case, the productivity of the global tech industry spikes for 24 hours. Plus, lead from the front and all that. EDIT: Oh yeah, and that point about the reddit refugees. Yeah. EDIT2: and then we can have haskell day on the 19th or something as well. sweet.
• j_baker 15y ago
  Personally, I think such a thing would serve no purpose other than to make people on HN feel as though they've contributed something. I think it would be better for the fight against SOPA if everyone who voted yes wrote their congressperson instead (not to imply that they necessarily haven't, mind you).
• riker 15y ago
  Does anyone who reads HN not already know about the evils of SOPA?
• Jach 15y ago
  My goto quip for these sorts of things is Carlin's "I leave symbols to the symbol-minded." HN can do whatever it wants, I voted No purely out of self-interest but if the site goes dark I'll just do a bit more work than normal. Even if all the major sites go dark I'm not convinced it will have any lasting effect.
• dkberktas 15y ago
  Since Turkey has its own SOPA for years, these kind of debates happened a couple of years ago. One of the ways is to show a page with the message and let the users continue to regular site if they choose to. http://techcrunch.com/2008/08/17/web-censorship-is-so-bad-in-turkey-that-blogs-are-shutting-themselves-down-in-protest/ http://techcrunch.com/2008/08/17/web-censorship-is-so-bad-in...
• botker 15y ago
  The word "hacker" has a highly negative connotation to the mass media. This site may as well be called "Terrorist News" from their POV. The last thing our SOPA opposition needs is to be associated with "hackers" in the popular press. For that reason I vote No.
• JacobIrwin 15y ago
  First, construct a phase 1-blackout. Where any users sees a large screen with info to contact their reps (and then allows them to proceed to the app). The outcome of this less-abrasive approach may be enough - and if not, Plan B can then be implemented; a complete blackout.
• raldi 15y ago
  What if all companies in the YC family were to do something on January 18?
• dpkendal 15y ago
  Only in the US. We’re pretty powerless in other countries, except for signing that White House petition.
• Joakal 15y ago
  pg, if you're going to blackout, could you try advocating Internet Freedom alongside going dark against the SOPA as a way to show HN wishing to have Internet Freedom to do business? It would also show that there's a technologically advanced audience here that has great concerns of the anti-Internet attempts.
  • astrofinch 15y ago
    I think our blackout says more if we ask for just one thing.
    • Joakal 15y ago
      We're a sophisticated audience though; the audience here will read more into it. The audience of Reddit, Facebook, Google, etc, are unlikely and may get overwhelmed.
• jcapote 15y ago
  Just black it out forever, that'll show 'em
• kmfrk 15y ago
  At the very least, make a very visible note of it - change the background to black and include a top bar with some information/links on the matter. It might still have an effect that sites, small or not, are all affected, so the long tail so to speak can have its own effect. Something similar was brought up at reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/SOPA/comments/obl5l/ask_rsopa_is_there_an_official_javascript_repo/ http://www.reddit.com/r/SOPA/comments/obl5l/ask_rsopa_is_the....
• benwerd 15y ago
  I do think HN should go dark in SOPA - but I also think everyone on HN who controls a site should commit to make it go dark too.
• timharding 15y ago
  No. I think the tech industry should learn how congress works and beat these fuckers at their own game.
• pschlump 15y ago
  Every single person that reads HN should talk in person to two people that don't read HN and explain SOPA/PIPA and why they should contact congres and complain about SOPA/PIPA. Phone calls and letters are better than email.
• j2labs 15y ago
  This is gonna be such a fun experiment with what happens when a country can't use a gigantic, shared distraction.
• necenzurat 15y ago
  Paint it black!
• bradfordw 15y ago
  Yes. This will be the most productive day of the week.
• notbot 15y ago
  Yes.
• Francon 15y ago
  If HN goes dark it accomplishes nothing. If anything should be done, we should promote and post hacker news in an effort to increase awareness. Closing HN which is a source of real factual and crowd sourced news is like cutting off vaccines durin an epicemic...
• superkinz 15y ago
  The point isn't to educate HN users about why SOPA sucks, it's to throw a roadblock in front of people and say "rather than spending the usual 10 minutes reading posts, pick up your phone and call your representative and complain" It's about forcing people to get off their lazy butts and make a phone call. And as much as we complain, I bet 99% of people here haven't made that call yet.
• junkyarddog 15y ago
  No. The whole point of going dark is to raise public awareness and to get politicians to take this issue seriously. Unlike the general population, we don't need a wake up call.
• Benares 15y ago
  Nothing like a blackout will get visitors to sit up and take notice. Blackout for justice.
• mkr-hn 15y ago
  I voted yes, but both options have similar outcomes. The front page will be full of stories about sites that have gone dark. The impact on HN will be the same, but attention will be driven to other blackouts.
• plasma 15y ago
  I'm not following SOAP very much, so this would bring some more attention to it for me (I'm not American). I think it would be important that any blackout actually includes a call to action though, not just a message saying the site is offline for today - it should make it easy to actually do something (email, phone call, whatever) to protest against it.
• hohack 15y ago
  go dark my good friends
• filiwickers 15y ago
  Yes, HN Should go dark to protest SOPA
• ImprovedSilence 15y ago
  Voted no. I think we here all know. The bigger issue is, did the tens of thousands of us call our senators and congressmen and tell them what we think. We can try to make news headlines all we want, but their phones are ringing off the hook will cause a much bigger disruption. If you want action here it is. Please. http://www.house.gov/representatives/ http://www.house.gov/representatives/ http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_c...
• rcthompson 15y ago
  Maybe an HN blackout won't directly raise awareness, since you can't really be an HN participant and not know about SOPA. But having another site join the blackout may help raise exposure among those who run other websites, so it may help expand the blackout to other sites whose absence will be noticed by the people who need to know about SOPA.
• Sym3tri 15y ago
  No b/c the people to convince are not the ones reading HN
• orenmazor 15y ago
  thats probably as preaching to the converted as you can get.
• jeffem 15y ago
  The only guaranteed outcomes of a blackout are: 1) site owners forego potential revenue that day 2) customers cannot do business with them that day 3) users cannot access those sites that day Depending on which sites participate, the immediate effects on the lives of those owners, customers, and users can range from trivial to very meaningful. Will this be a worthwhile "investment" in the long run? I can believe that a blackout will increase media coverage. I can believe that a blackout will result in more calls, emails, etc. to representatives. What's tough for me to believe is that any of that will do any good if the end goal is to stop this type of legislation. I would genuinely like to see evidence that similar protests have historically been effective. Until then, I can't help but think this is just the wrong tactic that punishes the wrong people. I hope I'm wrong.
• Geee 15y ago
  I don't think it makes any sense to black out HN. The purpose of the black out is to wake up people who have never heard of SOPA and educate them about the effects it will have on the Internet. It's not about some 'sacrifice' as some are calling it. It's the ultimate wake up call. Rather, people of HN should black out their websites to get the message as far as possible. Let's keep HN up, so there's at least one place where we can stay somewhat organized and can keep track of things happening.
• invisiblepilot 15y ago
  paint it black
• drawkbox 15y ago
  We should do it solely to work on a project or get some work done. We know SOPA, but imagine the time!
• snow_mac 15y ago
  Yes!
• moultano 15y ago
  HN should blackout every Thursday as a "get more stuff done than usual day." (For this reason, Google has no-meeting Thursdays.)
• donnawarellp 15y ago
  duh
• merryandrew 15y ago
  No. Most HN users already oppose SOPA. Better to keep HN running so we can all share information about (and apply pressure on) the big companies that are not opposing SOPA with a blackout.
• deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
• bitops 15y ago
  Where is PG in all of this?
• dlss 15y ago
  This is retarded. You go dark to make users who would otherwise not know about SOPA realize how bad an idea it is. No one using hackernews fits that description. I am in favor of a wikipedia or perhaps even a google blackout. HN needs a blackout about as much as an anti-SOPA blog.
• jdavid 15y ago
  HN stories get copied everywhere, with HN dark, how will the other tech blogs know which sites are going dark? Maybe HN can just invert the colors on the site.
• jimjimbo 15y ago
  If HN went dark, it would be an example of preaching to the choir. same goes for redit goin' dark.
• cwtann 15y ago
  Sopa only content instead of blackout
  • pbhjpbhj 15y ago
    >Sopa only content instead of blackout Because the site isn't geocentric or political enough yet?
• the_tubes 15y ago
  I plan on unplugging my modem in protest
• avos 15y ago
  NO, only those sites that would be missed or noticed by those "special" people in Congress. HN is an excellent source of info for us the Net-savvy folk. No one in Congress would notice if HN went dark... Would be like shooting ourselves in the foot!
• TWAndrews 15y ago
  This seems totally ridiculous to me. Does anyone who comes to HN support SOPA? The advantage of companies like Facebook, Google and Amazon going black is that lots of people who have never heard of SOPA could be educated and asked to pressure congress. What's the possible effect of HN going black?
• jen_h 15y ago
  I think we all need to step up to this ridiculous legislation (that's likely to get passed, $_ help us), however: - If everyone on a site is aware of SOPA (and who isn't?), disappearing completely for the day doesn't help anything, really. And actually can be a bad thing; while I was able to watch the first hearing on CSPAN, I wasn't able to watch the other--the play-by-play on HN was really, really helpful. - If no one who uses the site is aware of SOPA, going away will raise awareness and will be AWESOME. - If your site is mission-critical, disappearing completely for the day is serious badness and could open you up to all sorts of mayhem. By that logic, however, and I believe my logic is pretty sound, Google Search should display a doodle that jumps straight to opensecrets.org and Facebook should put up a big banner every third refresh telling everyone to wake the eff up. 0:)
• jen_h 15y ago
  I think we all need to step up to this ridiculous legislation (that's likely to get passed, $_ help us), however: - If everyone on a site is aware of SOPA (and who isn't?), disappearing completely for the day doesn't help anything, really. And actually can be a bad thing; while I was able to watch the first hearing on CSPAN, I wasn't able to watch the other--the play-by-play on HN was really, really helpful. - If no one who uses the site is aware of SOPA, going away will raise awareness and will be AWESOME. - If your site is mission-critical, disappearing completely for the day is serious badness and could open you up to all sorts of mayhem. By that logic, however, and I believe my logic is pretty sound, Google Search should display a doodle that jumps straight to opensecrets.org and Facebook should put up a big banner every third refresh telling everyone to wake the eff up. 0:)
• tylerschuett 15y ago
  I have to agree with Kevin Brown here...
• jare1 15y ago
  Yes, I think it should.
• VonLipwig 15y ago
  The answer is no, people who say yes are wrong. You black out your website to raise awareness to the cause. I think it is a fair bet that an extremely high number of HN users know a lot about SOPA / PIPA. So there is no point doing this to educate regulars. Perhaps news will spread. Sure, it will spread in the tech community. In the tech community knowledge of SOPA / PIPA is well known. Shock waves from HN being blacked out won't travel to the general public or politicians. But what if it does travel to the public / politicians. "A website called Hacker News blacked out? Hackers are bad right? A bit like pirates which this bill is protecting us against? Shouldn't this site be blacked out anyway?" HN has an unfortunate name. You black out a website to make a statement. With HN which is so obviously anti-SOPA/PIPA I don't see the point. Now.. if gravatar blacked out all of the avatars for a day. Or Google + Bing + Yahoo turned off the switch for a couple of hours at the same time... that would be a statement.
  • teja1990 15y ago
    Yes, Even I agree with you. IT is a no . Almost all of us know about SOPA/PIPA . Blocking HN will only hinder us in getting the news , many submit interesting articles that take a stance on SOPA that only help us. Instead start telling your friends and colleagues who are not tech savvy , how this will affect their lives. Thats what I have been doing .
  • hasenj 15y ago
    I strongly disagree with this. The point of the protest is not only to let your regulars know (as you pointed out, they already know) but to let the world knows. How? When all the tech sites go dark, one can say: look, the entire tech community is strongly opposed to this thing, just look at these sites <insert list of links to high profile technology websites>.
    • swombat 15y ago
      The world doesn't give a toss or have an iota of awareness about HN. Blacking out HN would be like switching off your computer in the privacy of your own home. Nobody knows or cares. All that would achieve is to remove an important vector for communication and information spread in the tech community.
• yummybear 15y ago
  I think yes - not because it will matter to the users of HN, of which I imagine 99% are against SOPA, but because it will generate media interest and stories.
• rometest 15y ago
  how about people who voted "yes" blackout any websites they own, along with HN?
• joeblau 15y ago
  No, because then I'm going to have to read Gizmodo.
• talktojoseph 15y ago
  yes
• ekianjo 15y ago
  Going dark is only effective if: 1) the fact that you are going dark is going to make a difference to a great number of people and prompt enough of them to act on it 2) your audience is not aware on the issue and needs to be and you have not found a better way to do it. For HN, I believe that it won't make a huge difference to anyone if HN shuts down for one day, and as many people pointed out before, many HNers are well aware of the SOPA and going dark will not bring much further awareness. For Google or Facebook, both 1 and 2 would prove worth acting on it. Reddit, maybe since they have a huge following & traffic. HN, clearly no point. Rather than going dark, HNers would/should participate to the reddit initiative by voting up more SOPA related posts on the day Reddit goes dark, since HN is a contents hub. That would be way more productive.
• teflonhook 15y ago
  The whole point of blacking out is to educate the masses and I think that pretty much on HN would already know. Better off trying to mobilise the HN community to tell others.
• forkrulassail 15y ago
  NO! The crowd here seems more informed than the general public. Nice thought, a bit unnecessary.
• tintin 15y ago
  Blacking out a relatively unknown website as HN is not going to work. But what about not using the internet on SOPA day? That would make a statement. If all tech companies just stopped using the internet for one day, people might get a little idea of what the internet means to us and how our work with internet is related to our customers.
• rms 15y ago
  Yes, but only to encourage a pile-on effect leading to Facebook and Google doing it.
• dendory 15y ago
  Yes, in solidarity, but with the understanding that it will have no other purpose. Everyone who comes on HN knows about SOPA.
• SODaniel 15y ago
  No doubt.
• vipinsahu 15y ago
  Yes , HN should go dark
• rundmc 15y ago
  No, anyone that reads HN knows the issues, it's the mass population that needs to be made aware.
• Shivetya 15y ago
  No. Sorry, but while I like this site your not going to do anything but annoy those of us who agree with the stance. Simply put, the public in general does not know about HN and the public does not care. This site has little to no impact in that arena. Now if you want to annoy those of us who agree with the idea of sites noticeable to the public going dark then you will have accomplished that.
• tomelders 15y ago
  I voted yes, here's why.... There is the "awareness argument" to be made, there'salso a protest element. Going dark is a protest against SOPA, and I fully support that protest. But most of all I voted yes because.... What if FB or Google went dark, but all the Tech Sites stayed up? What would that look like? It'd look like we're a bunch of selfish cunts, that's what.
• evolve2k 15y ago
  By blackout I suggest that the site changes it's look (goes Black for the day) and only shows SOPA/PIPA related articles and resources. Maybe for the day, the submit form asks something similar to: 'Is this article SOPA/PIPA related, if not it will show tomorrow'.
• b2spirit 15y ago
  In the description, you wrote "in support SOPA", instead "in protest to".
• kokey 15y ago
  I just hope the reddit etc. blackouts are only going to be in the country, the US, that SOPA will be in. Not only from a personal perspective, since I am not in the US, but also for the US. We don't want to create the perception that US sites are unreliable because they can go down because of political activism over internal US issues. Companies are already going to some effort towards hedging their income from being dependent on single providers, e.g. Google traffic or Amazon sales.
• c1sc0 15y ago
  Yes, HN should go dark AND should show a prominent message with suggestions about what the visitor can do to protest the law
• Pieces 15y ago
  Most of the comments here seem to indicate that HN should not black out, but the votes say otherwise. I voted yes. I believe that any gesture, show of solidarity or whatever you want to call it can help.
• jcslzr 15y ago
  go dark for a day, or go dark forever
• rnernento 15y ago
  Regardless of whether or not HN readers are already aware of SOPA I think it's important the community show solidarity with other sites going dark in protest. A widespread blackout should get some attention, the wider the better.
• brudgers 15y ago
  In general, HN should not go dark...it should dim. The appropriate action would be to block access from U.S. IP addresses and to block links to articles with the same. There is no reason to make the rest of the world put up with more of the results of US political posturing than they currently do. It's our (America's) problem. We're the one's who should feel the pain.
• e03179 15y ago
  Should the anti-SOPA website go dark in protest of SOPA?
• delimitted 15y ago
  No, while I think other websites with users who are less aware would benefit the cause by having a Stop SOPA message, explanation of the reason behind the blackout, and the blackout for a day, most of the HN community is already aware of the issue.
• thewisedude 15y ago
  I thinking HN blacking out is a bad strategy. If Google did that, then its different, because it is responsible for huge amount of web-traffic and there would be uproar among many businesses. Fairly speaking, HN is not such a big player (like Google), silencing itself may be counter productive in that, people might not care and whatever attention it was bringing might be lost for that time frame!
• Hephaestus42 15y ago
  The answer is to go Gray not dark. Keep the site up but forward everyone to a page with SOPA facts and contact info for politicians, petitions, etc.
• ak2012 15y ago
  no
• shmeeps 15y ago
  The problem here is that pretty much everyone who visits HN already knows about SOPA. While it's a good move regardless, I highly doubt it's necessary.
• mattacurtis 15y ago
  Doesn't make any sense to blackout HN. A large majority of HN visitors are already aware of SOPA - no need to raise awareness with this audience.
• gdiggity 15y ago
  No, this is for awareness. Everyone here is aware.
• firefoxman1 15y ago
  It's a nice thought, but considering the several SOPA-related posts on the front page every day, I really doubt HN needs to go dark to inform its users. Maybe first take a poll titled "Do you know what SOPA is?"
• pvarangot 15y ago
  While I think it should go down, if it doesn't it'll be interesting to see the results of the massive influx of anxiety-driven redditors looking for a place with karma-whoring link-baity headlines to fill with memes. If I'm right with this it can become the ultimate stress test for the HN community guidelines and it's moderation system.
• grouchyone 15y ago
  Regardless of whether or not this would be "preaching to the choir", it will still make news, and a bunch of high profile websites all going dark at the same time is much more impressive than just reddit.
• sethbannon 15y ago
  Yes. Lead by example.
• DonCarlitos 15y ago
  Yes. Stand with all of us and go dark. If HN doesn't make such a gesture, how can we call ourselves true to our convictions?
• capedape 15y ago
  Instead of going dark Google should go to a page explaining SOPA then after a period of time redirect to what the user was searching for. That way there won't be huge implications for the economy, and the user is forced to confront what SOPA means.
• draxofavalon 15y ago
  We should learn from the godaddy/SOPA situation... we have the money, we own the internet, we pay for domains, hosting, servers, services. 1 day without WE using/paying the web will do more damage than 1 day with "go dark" websites. I can live 1 day without internet... can you?
• naughtysriram 15y ago
  I am thinking of installing fedora on my laptop as a sign of protest.
• njharman 15y ago
  No, because going dark purpose is to spread awareness and everyone here already knows / understands.
  • tghw 15y ago
    There's a difference between awareness and action. We need to take action. Going dark would help those who've not written/called/met with their representatives to do so, before it's too late.
• justindocanto 15y ago
  Readers of HN generally already oppose SOPA. To do so would be to take out our hub for news and info on the topic. You would accomplish nothing other than having us look elsewhere. Bad call.
• supjeff 15y ago
  There is no way that anybody who browses this site hasn't heard about SOPA.
• rlf 15y ago
  Fuck no. Why should we penalize ourselves because they are idiots? It makes no sense whatsoever.
• b0o 15y ago
  if you block out hn, where would i get my news about sopa?!
• dyscrete 15y ago
  It's for a good cause so if anyone isn't willing to sacrifice something so small to help prevent something that will force you to sacrifice something much bigger – then you sir, have lost your mind.
• vaeke 15y ago
  The vast majority of HN users are aware of SOPA/PIPA so it wouldn't have almost any impact. There's no need for HN to go dark. Sites where most of the people are not aware of SOPA/PIPA, like wikipedia, facebook, twitter, google, youtube, maybe 9gag... should go dark, at least for some hours.
• Moschops 15y ago
  It should change in the regions of the world that will be affected by SOPA; rather than going dark, display a pseudo government notice about the site being closed to citizens, and below that give instructions on how you can circumvent it and see HN, in exactly the way people will circumvent SOPA when it arrives. People get to see HN, and awareness is raised, and everyone gets to learn how to circumvent it.
• deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
• didithappen 15y ago
  Yes, please. I'm sure we can all make do without HN for one day, and it would definitely help the protests. And to everyone who says that if you are not from the US, thers nothing you can do: actually thats not completely right. If the media in your country picks this up it will vastly amplify the message. (Think: "worldwide outcry becaues of SOPA") (btw, I'm not from the US either)
• digamber_kamat 15y ago
  HN is used by a miniscule number of internet users almost 100% of HN users are pretty much aware of SOPA and why it is bad. Shutting it down even for a day will actually help the government because we wont be able to discuss why SOPA is bad for that particular day. HN should be up. Instead of going dark, a better thing to do will be to declare the day SOPA protest day and post links/discussions related only to SOPA. Or get prominent people to write/live chat/video chat about why SOPA is bad.