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I understand that layoffs are a blunt instrument and it is unlikely that all of the “right” people were affected, but Google has long been known as the FAANG to
by fnfjfk 4y ago
I understand that layoffs are a blunt instrument and it is unlikely that all of the “right” people were affected, but Google has long been known as the FAANG to go to if you want to chill, coast, and vest. No Facebook PSC, no Amazon stack ranking, no Netflix “sports team”. Obviously it is team dependent, but it really has that reputation. The well-known tradeoff is that getting a promo to a post-senior level is borderline impossible.
I dunno, something had to give at some point? Leadership sent the message last year but it wasn’t well received: https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/google-ceo-faced-intense-pushback-from-employees-at-a-town-hall-his-2-sentence-response-was-smart-leadership.html https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/google-ceo-faced-intense-push...
Like, blame definitely falls on leadership here, ICs didn’t come up with the ten chat apps or streaming gaming failure, but the chilling couldn’t last forever.
- themitigating 4y ago"but Google has long been known as the FAANG to go to if you want to chill, coast, and ves" Is that a fact or just your perception?
- mr_00ff00 4y agoCertainly is public opinion. I remember people trying to make the claim that Google paying smart people to not work was a good strategy because it prevented those workers from creating start-ups that would compete with Google. The Blind app is an interesting place.
- tayo42 4y agoIdk if I would call blind public opinion
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- personjerry 4y ago> I remember people trying to make the claim that Google paying smart people to not work was a good strategy because it prevented those workers from creating start-ups that would compete with Google. That's from Silicon Valley, the parody show
- hgsgm 4y ago_Silicon Valley_ is well-known to an extrmely accurate portrayal of SV culture. It is a hit parody because it's accruate.
- whateveracct 4y agoWhen I was in college years ago, I knew a guy whose plan was to turn his Amazon internship into a FTE offer, work there a couple years, and then go to Google and quote "sit." It worked. Not a bad plan in the early/mid 2010s ;)
- ipaddr 4y agoWhen I started 10 years earlier just being able to get paid to program was amazing. My first job in 2001 was for minimum wage. I wonder how many developers exist who wouldn't if pay wasn't so high.
- nebula8804 4y agoWe are likely about to find out. In the end this could be a good thing, shake out a lot the bootcampers and leave the people who like to code. On the downside, people like me like to code and also rest n' vest. :/
- metadat 4y agoYou're assuming that management can and does differentiate between the two and only fires the sitters. Life experience tells me this is highly unlikely.
- andsoitis 4y agoIf that is true (managers cannot filter for sitters), then I know which wins: random layoffs vs. surgical firings at scale
- whateveracct 4y agoI think neither? Or rather, it's a function of 1) the accuracy of managers knowing who is a sitter and 2) the percentage of your company is sitters. If the percentage is, say, 20% and the manager hit rate is, say, 20%..I'd say both moves end up firing more useful people than sitters. Even if you take it to say managers cannot figure it out and always get it wrong (0% hit rate). Random layoffs are still a net negative even if they outperform managers picking the firings. It's pretty funny how even without unions, companies have no recourse to me barely working and collecting a quarter mil a year.
- dchftcs 4y agoIt's a fact that it is the collective perception. Whether people actually get to chill is team dependent but from my understanding you can't really do 30 hour weeks at Facebook, Amazon or Netflix, but it's more possible at Google.
- lexapro 4y agoAnd I think almost no one really works 30 hours productively at any company.
- themitigating 4y ago"Collective perception" is not meaningful evidence
- lolinder 4y agoThe statement you challenged was "Google has long been known as the FAANG to go to if you want to chill, coast, and vest". Additional people chiming in saying they, too had this perception is evidence that that is something Google is known for, and not just by OP.
- fnfjfk 4y agoObviously it is impossible to measure this sort of thing objectively, but if you know enough people that bounce around in FAANGs or check Blind, this is pretty widely the opinion.
- lumost 4y agoBlind turns into the worst version of a company pretty quickly. It would have you believe that both anyone can get a job at certain companies and that others fire their entire staff. My understanding is that google historically simply didn’t give raises or approve projects for under performers. As long as someone didn’t rock the boat or put up low quality CRs, or stop working entirely, they would be left alone - and maybe google wouldn’t bother to give them any new stocks when their grant expired.
- sgtnoodle 4y agoWhile I was at Google, I witnessed several people be put on "performance improvement plans" for three perf rounds, and then get fired.
- bfung 4y agoLiving and working in tech in Bay Area 2010-2020, rest & vest google perception started circa 2013-2014.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mc32 4y agoThat's what people there tell me. I'm sure it depends a lot on what part of Google people work for, but yeah, come in late, leave early, long lunches, work-outs, meetings to discuss meetings... I don't know how they got things done. In plenty of companies things that took a team of seven with a manager could be accomplished by two. So, yeah, the reputation has some known basis but may not reflect all of Google.
- blastonico 4y agoThey don't get things done. They buy companies that got those things done: YouTube, Google Docs, Android, etc.
- hgsgm 4y agoAre you enjoying using Writely and Cupcake, which haven't changed in 15 years?
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago> meetings to discuss meetings Thats not chill, that's exhausting and common at many dorectionless organisations with poor leadership. As an IC its not something yoy can fix
- renewiltord 4y agoEveryone in the Bay knows that Google is the retirement home. I knew people who worked there who left because no one on their team would write anything. Show up at 11, lunch at 1, leave at 4 after meetings. And you know that when people call it "best WLB" they're talking about something specific.
- mrelectric 4y agoI heard the same about Ericsson in Europe. Any other known retirement places?
- renewiltord 4y agoLinkedIn also has that reputation.
- cavisne 4y agoLinkedin and Salesforce PM's tend to be the stereotypical answer (products that haven't changed for years).
- paxys 4y agoGoogle had that reputation when compared to Amazon and Facebook, but that is hardly a bad thing considering the culture at those companies (and it's not like they are doing too hot right now either despite all that stack ranking and overwork). There are plenty of large tech companies with real "retirement home" reputations – Microsoft, Cisco, IBM, Oracle, VMware, Adobe, Intel, HP, Dell... There's no comparison between this tier and Google in terms of tech standard, productivity and really anything else.
- fnfjfk 4y agoAre places like HP and Dell really comparable to Google on TC? You can also chill out working at a quiet local bookstore or other “BaristaFIRE” jobs that people like, but you’re not getting paid $500k to do it… (Microsoft definitely competes now)
- paxys 4y agoThere's probably a significant difference when you factor in stock appreciation (particularly for the long timers), but I'd wager base salary stays within 10-20% at all these companies for the same level/experience/location.
- haliskerbas 4y agoyou might be pretty far off, even at the new grad level I've seen 50% difference between peers at a FAANG vs. other large tech co.
- jujube3 4y agoYou would lose that wager.
- pas 4y agocan you provide some data for those who are absolutely not "in" the stock market? how did you interpret that wager? what starting date and what sell price?
- CydeWeys 4y agoThe layoff didn't particularly target the rest-and-vesters, though. It frankly appears mostly random based on what I've seen.
- ed25519FUUU 4y agoHow can you have any real opinion on it without knowing people’s comp level?
- fnfjfk 4y agoLevels are public at Google, unlike Meta, or Netflix that (formerly) did not have them at all.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- alasdair_ 4y ago> Levels are public at Google, unlike Meta, or Netflix that (formerly) did not have them at all. Well, yes, before they had levels, they did not have levels. I'm not sure this is much a a statement however - Meta has had levels for many, many years.
- fnfjfk 4y agoMeta does not have public levels. Everyone’s title is Software Engineer, from IC3 to IC10. Some senior ICs do have a view into levels, since they are involved in performance reviews. At Google, you can see other people’s levels, and they have titles: “Senior”, “Staff”, and so on.
- alasdair_ 4y agoWhen I was there, I knew peoples levels and we were encouraged to tell people “I’m a staff engineer working on foo” for interviews etc. Plus, almost everyone E5 and above posts their titles on linkedin.
- Gibbon1 4y ago> I understand that layoffs are a blunt instrument and it is unlikely that all of the “right” people were affected Layoffs in this case are merely done to manipulate the metrics used by wall street analysts. That's the only reason they are being done.
- netheril96 4y agoGoogle itself benefited from that image. Many people chose an offer from Google with total comp X instead of another company with total comp Y when X is lesser than Y by a significant amount. In the future, seldom any one will make any such decision. Google has to pay more for the same caliber of people. Of course, I am assuming that the market will turn around some time in the future. If the market remains this bleak forever, tech candidates no longer have any choices so Google doesn't have to care.
- winrid 4y agoI personally know someone that joined Google and had some bug fixes or something ready in their first couple weeks and their team told them they don't work that way, don't be competitive. Sounds great! :)