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Ask HN: Airbnb requires my credit-card transaction history?

68 points by zug_zug 4y ago

https://twitter.com/planmoretrips/status/1603738966271860736 I ran into this myself (literally could not check out with my credit card without agreeing to those terms) and opted to paypal instead. Anybody at airbnb/plaid know if this is any less awful than it seems?

Luciatrutth 4y ago
[dead]
therockspush 4y ago
airbnb seems to find new ways to burn any goodwill they had. I've heard about more friends getting scammed and having their reviews deleted, and dragged out refunds if they happen at all. Almost all of them ended up with chargebacks on their credit card, and then airbnb bans them. I wonder if they're looking for a history of that, and just hoping people don't care about what info they're giving away.
- spoiler 4y ago
  My mum, as a long time host, has a similar experience with scumbag guests occasionally. So, I guess Airbnb is doing this to protect both hosts and guests
  - dazc 4y ago
    Cynical me thinks Airbnb is doing this to protect Airbnb.
    - spoiler 4y ago
      In all fairness, your probably right. It's likely they're doing this to cut down on support demands regarding complaints. There's probably going to be a downsizing of their support teams soon.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  I booked a place and it turned out to be unlivable due to noise, I left the next morning, requested refund for remaining week+, raised a ticket, spent time on the phone eventually Airbnb refunded their fees but maybe because I booked it in advance somehow it was up to the guy to refund and he declined. At a few hundred USD it was the most expensive night in my life (I can't splurge). Never saw the guy in person either, of course. If you have a cute listing description in a major city and a couple of friends who wrote you positive reviews you can get a steady airbnb income mostly without people properly staying in your place with tricks like this (In this case some reviews specifically claimed superb soundproofing but it turned out to be an apartment subdivided into rooms with cardboard-like walls) I stopped using Airbnb after a couple of such incidents. I actually don't miss it at all so far. It's mostly been a source of bad travel experience, and 99% of places that are good also publish listings elsewhere
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    I've had similar experiences with AirBnb. I booked a place in a building that is residential on one side, commercial on the other. The place, as it turns out, was on the commercial side in a room attached to a travel agency. With a sex shop right outside the door. When I got to the place - with my daughter - we passed a man defecating on the sidewalk outside the building. And inside the building, right next to the entrance of our "travel agency room" was a prostitute in an indiscreet position with a client. And I'm with my 15 year old daughter. We left and got a nicer place. Airbnb refused the refund. And they haven't had my business since.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      I feel like they have internal guidelines on what is a refundable complain, and unless it is proved with a photo of the interior that shows something broken or not per description then it's fair game to unscrupulous host. (If you don't wish to engage and negotiate with the host, document everything and spend time with support, the host gets to pocket the money. If the host ensured the place visually matches the photos even if it's awful in some way, smell, noise, etc., the host gets to pocket the money. And so on)
lfodofod 4y ago
Airbnb does this because fraudsters use it to cash out large amounts of money from stolen credit cards, they’re a lucrative target.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  You open a fake listing and then rent it out with fake CC ? Wouldn't this be handled on the payout/property owner side ? Sounds more like wanting to seeing if people do chargebacks ?
  - kyruzic 4y ago
    You open an expensive listing and book it yourself to "wash" the money.
    - DennisP 4y ago
      That doesn't seem like Airbnb's problem though. I wouldn't think that's the only reason unless the government is making them do it. That's entirely possible, but at the same time, the information they're asking for is a gold mine for marketers.
      - johndunne 4y ago
        Money laundering laws make it Airbnb’s problem though.
        gggggg5 4y ago
        More importantly, Airbnb loses a shitload of money here.
        DennisP 4y ago
        I'm not convinced that money laundering laws mean someone with a legitimate business has to do intrusive data collection to police their customers. If they marketed Airbnb as a money laundering solution, that'd be different. I did say it's possible the government is pressuring them do it, but that's something I suspect Airbnb could fight if they were motivated to do so. (Chargebacks do make it their problem though, so my premise was false anyway.)
ausudhz 4y ago
Use hotels. Airbnb has been comparable to hotels in the area, without extra services, no loyalty points, no daily cleaning (in many cases) and no added value at all. At least before you'd pay significantly less than an hotel. Now hotels are more convenient especially if you're member and you get it with a discount
- treeman79 4y ago
  Hilton triple charged me. Months later I’m still fighting it
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    I had exactly zero problems with hotels and a number of problems with private hosts. Now I don't even consider the latter. When I'm on a trip, whether it's a business one or with my family, I want consistent service and predictability. Maybe I'm just to old to deal with that crap.
    - ausudhz 4y ago
      > Maybe I'm just to old to deal with that crap. Same I don't want to think if my flight delays for a few hours whether the host can give me the key, where we should meet etc. I just want to get in the room as soon as possible knowing that if I'm in a new place I can always count on the hotel staff for any help. Definitely hotels win on many levels compared to private hosts
    - gtech1 4y ago
      Maybe it's me getting old, but most of the hotels I've been to, slightly higher end ones, had really weird bathrooms. From no doors, to imperfectly closing doors on purpose ( think rough barn door ) , to saloon doors (???). Who designs these and where are they going with it ? Can't one enjoy some privacy in the bathroom anymore ?
      - izacus 4y ago
        Then you haven't been in the most fancy hotels where the feature is having glass bathroom with a view from the bedroom bed. Seriously.
type0 4y ago
Maybe they are trying to combat money laundering, if they are it's a very severe case of "You are doing it wrong!" syndrome
- vb-8448 4y ago
  Can you explain how my cc transactions history can help them to combat money laundering?
  - fuzzy2 4y ago
    Maybe you wouldn’t have access to the history of a stolen credit card or something?
  - type0 4y ago
    It can't, in such case it's all security theatre

7to2 4y ago

As a customer, that's not my problem.

gggggg5 4y ago
Sure is, fraud forces merchants to add these extra hoops for you to jump through in order for them to remain profitable. If AirBnB didn't do this, they would simply cease to exist at some point.
- vinaypai 4y ago
  Evety other merchant manages to deal with this without this level of invasiveness though.
  - gggggg5 4y ago
    Such as what other merchant? You're probably thinking of businesses which are not really comparable.
    - hn92726819 4y ago
      Hotels don't request this
      - everforward 4y ago
        Hotels don't have to because there's no route to pay with a stolen credit card and then get that money into an account you use. I could set up a fake AirBnB, steal credit cards, book my own fake AirBnB, and then run off with the cash. There's no equivalent workflow for hotels. It's mostly a problem for "platform" style apps that have both ways to send money and ways to withdraw money. Turo and Ebay are probably better comparisons here, and may have similar issues.
        gggggg5 4y ago
        Ebay has it easier because they can treat their sellers way worse than Airbnb can treat their hosts. Paypal is kind of universally reviled over their security measures.
    - vinaypai 4y ago
      Literally no other merchant does this. That includes VRBO which is pretty directly comparable.
      - gggggg5 4y ago
        VRBO isn't directly comparable because it doesn't compete with AirBnB for hosts. Nobody lists only on VRBO, unless they've been banned from AirBnB. VRBO doesn't do this, and has way harsher payout policies for new hosts than AirBnB. VRBO can do this because VRBO is not trying to attract new hosts (new to hosting, not new to VRBO) in the first place. AirBnB can't do the VRBO thing and escrow payments to new hosts for 30 days, that would be super discouraging for newcomers trying to list their flat for the first time.
        vinaypai 4y ago
        I don't think you understand what the word "comparable" means.
- zug_zug 4y ago
  This is the same credit card I've been using on their site for several years. This is no excuse. Unless you have proof they aren't selling that data, I'd assume (based on my experience at a major location-sharing company and a major credit-reports website) that they are absolutely selling that data.

sokoloff 4y ago

If you made one honest effort to resolve it with them, do a chargeback on your card. I’ve had two hotels do this (over many decades) and my bank was very quick to approve my chargeback.

closewith 4y ago
If they're anything like airlines, you'll never be able to stay at any of their 6,000+ hotels after making a chargeback. That may or may not be an issue for the OP (although maybe not as the company has already overcharged them).
- jules 4y ago
  Would you want to stay there again if they triple charge you and do not want to fix it? That's called theft. Would you want to work with a business that is nonchalant about stealing from you? I bet the hotel would not be so nonchalant about you stealing 2x of the cost of the hotel room from them. I made the mistake of not using a credit card to pay for an airline ticket. They canceled my flight at the last moment with no reason given, did not want to provide alternative transportation, and only offered to refund 80 euros of "credits" tied to that airline (far less than what I paid for the flight!). I never want to use that airline again, and would happily chargeback.
  - closewith 4y ago
    I would definitely try to avoid using a hotel chain that overcharged me, but the unfortunately reality is that the chains (like airlines) are so big that you do meaningfully reduce your options in the future.
  - bartread 4y ago
    > I never want to use that airline again, and would happily chargeback. The problem with that idea is that sometimes Airline X is the only game in town for certain destinations. I have an Airline X that screwed my then girlfriend now fiancee and I over rather badly last year, forcing us to fly a day later than planned, with knock on impacts on our plans/schedule. Airline X are a bunch of unregenerate, dishonest scoundrels who I'd cheerfully feed into a running woodchipper but the strongest position I can realistically take is that, where a viable alternative to Airline X is available, even if it's a bit more inconvenient or expensive, I'll use that alternative. However, sometimes a combination of scheduling, availability, outbound airport, destination, and other constraints make it either literally impossible or practically impossible to avoid using Airline X. So a few months after the unpleasant occurrence last year I had to use them once again for a one way flight because they were the only viable option. It pained me to hand over the money, and it pained me even more to watch them single out somebody in the queue for reasons that are obscure to me and make their life extremely unpleasant even though, apparently, they'd paid for the bag they were trying to bring aboard. Scumbags. But I still needed to get home. So I can't afford to get barred by them.
- treeman79 4y ago
  I also had a air line charge my bank multiple times at ticket counter. Lady was having trouble with something and just kept charging them canceling. Many many times. Showed up in foreign country with negative balance before I realized their was a problem. Airline said charges would fall in a week or so. Which was true. Spent hours on phone with airline. They did not care at all. But I was stuck with wife and a new baby and no funds for a week. I now have multi bank accounts credit cards and cash for traveling.

threemux 4y ago

This is only true if you're traveling solo or with one other person to city centers. Airbnb is far superior for: * Traveling with young children * Traveling to visit family in rural areas * Traveling for pleasure in rural areas For example, I can get a house on Airbnb near my extended family in a rural area that has 2-3 bedrooms for a similar price as the 2 rooms that would be required when traveling with my immediate family. Cross-shopping hotels is useful in some situations, but don't pretend Airbnb has no advantages.

ausudhz 4y ago
How can you compare two things when one of them is not available? It's implied that both Airbnb and hotel must be available to make a comparison. When that's the case most of the time hotels are better. That being said, if there are no hotels available of course any other alternative would be better. If you've a large family with multiple children yes, Airbnb may be better
- threemux 4y ago
  > How can you compare two things when one of them is not available? The example I gave is explicitly where they are both available. A hotel near my extended family, or a detached house from Airbnb that has bedrooms for my kids and a full kitchen for a similar price as two rooms in that hotel. > most of the time hotels are better That which can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. > a large family with multiple children I'd posit it's better with any amount of children, especially if they're under, say, 5 years old.
closewith 4y ago
My experience travelling with kids heavily favours hotels, TBH. Especially brands hotels. They're generally: - secure, - clean, - *fire-safe*, - always have my rooms ready, - have working WiFi, - don't have things like unsecured bottles of bleach in bathrooms, - don't have stray dogs hanging around, - don't have inappropriate art, books, TV-stations, etc. Admittedly I'm less price-sensitive than some, but I also don't find hotels massively more expensive.
- traveler01 4y ago
  I mean, even if cheaper you will always be giving away certain securities and perks that you have in a hotel. Not even considering the amount of horror stories I usually hear about related to Airbnbs.
drstewart 4y ago
Don't forget about long term stays
oblio 4y ago
> * Traveling with young children You have never gotten screwed by a host. If you are, going with young kids sucks beyond imagination. Hotels are a lot more reliable in my experience. Or, in Europe at least, Booking.com.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  Don't use booking.com they use the same predatory tactics and fuck over both guests and hotels wherever they get a foothold.
  - oblio 4y ago
    I know, but I've compared them with Airbnb and in my experience (tens of stays across the world), Booking.com is better. As long as you're careful about the reviews and double check all charges to not get overcharged, they're actually good at protecting you as a guest against the property afterwards. Yes, in an ideal world you'd get accommodation directly from the provider but that is a TON of work and it adds extra risks.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      > As long as you're careful about the reviews and double check all charges to not get overcharged, they're actually good at protecting you as a guest against the property afterwards. This is how it always starts.
      - oblio 4y ago
        Booking.com was founded in 1996.

amelius 4y ago

> no daily cleaning I personally prefer it if nobody enters my room during my stay, even if it means no clean towels etc.

ausudhz 4y ago
put "no disturb" in your hotel room and confirm it to the reception. They'd not enter
- amelius 4y ago
  I prefer if I don't have to tell the reception to not enter my room. In my opinion, this should be opt-in, rather than opt-out.
  - ausudhz 4y ago
    I also prefer to have people reading my mind but communication helps. Plus most of the time switching a button to "no disturb" would do, I don't know what are you ranting about. So what if the Airbnb does daily cleaning? You don't talk to the host to ask to remove the service? > In my opinion, this should be opt-in, rather than opt-out. I'm pretty sure most people prefer to come back with a room cleaned up, if you really don't like it just communicate it, write in the form when you book or whatever is not that hard.
    - amelius 4y ago
      It seems you are having trouble putting yourself in my shoes. I don't want to communicate to the reception to "not enter my room" because it feels rather awkward to say. The whole thing is just bad UX in my view. Of course your view may be different (or even most people's views), but that was not the point of my comment, of course.
  - ironick09 4y ago
    You don’t… have you stayed at a hotel before? You just put the do not disturb sign up that hangs off your door handle on the outside of your door…
  - Terretta 4y ago
    Default humans consider a tidied fresh room part of the package. You not wanting it makes you weird. So it's on you to move the little "Do Not Disturb" thing from inside door knob to outside. Telling reception won't work. Reception can't be bothered to communicate to house keeping who can't be bothered to figure out which house keeper will hit up your room and give them special instructions to not do their training.
    - amelius 4y ago
      > So it's on you to move the little "Do Not Disturb" thing from inside door knob to outside. What if I wanted to leave my room and still leave my stuff in there without being moved/touched by hotel personel? A sign that says "do not disturb" makes no sense in that case.
      - cyberge99 4y ago
        It literally makes perfect sense. Do not disturb (me, my room, my stuff).
        amelius 4y ago
        Only if "do not disturb" meant "do not enter", which is what I want the sign to mean.
        mmh0000 4y ago
        If you're really this anal about the verbiage, Amazon will sell you a solution: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GDBLYHM/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GDBLYHM/ For most normal people, "Do not disturb" and "Do not enter" on a door sign mean the same thing.
      - ausudhz 4y ago
        You ever been to an hotel before?
        4y ago