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Winnebago’s Electric Motorhome Prototype
- tomcam 4y agoThe good news is, the interior doesn’t look like a refugee from a 1970s porn movie the way so many RVs still do. The bad news is, it looks like a 1980s dentist office.
- amelius 4y agoAlso, it is still like a prison for even moderately tall or obese people.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 4y agoThose limitations are generally due to total size limitations on vehicles due to tunnels heights and road lane width. A custom build is arguably the only way to accommodate non standard sizes.
- SkyPuncher 4y agoThis is built on the same high-roof Ford Transit frame that nearly all other class B motorhomes are. Most class C and A's have even more headroom.
- dotancohen 4y agoThe worse news is, 108 mile range.
- tw98521358 4y agoEPA estimated so 50 actual
- tomcam 4y agoJeez, you miss 1 off-ramp in some parts of California and there’s a good chance you run out of juice.
- Animats 4y agoHey, that's a Ford Transit van. And, sure enough, it is. Winnebago did a Ford Transit van conversion. Converting Ford Transit vans to RVs is a thing. There are kits. "Biodegradable counter tops"?
- bdcravens 4y agoInteresting that they changed platforms. The first version was based on an electrified Ford Transit, rather than the E-Transit direct from Ford. https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-winnebagos-electric-camper-rv-concept-ford-transit-2022-1#in-january-famed-rv-maker-winnebago-industries-unveiled-the-e-rv-an-electric-camper-van-concept-based-on-a-ford-transit-chassis-complete-with-a-kitchen-bathroom-and-bed-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-winnebagos-electric-c...
- dhagberg 4y agoThis new prototype is based on a Lightning Motors Transit to get useful range, rather than the Ford Transit EV that has a very limited range. Ford’s Transit EV design spec is for a local delivery/work van - a bigger battery in that case would increase cost and weight.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jasonkester 4y agoOh, that’s genius. I was looking at the photo wondering why they used the cheapest flimsy laminated particle board garbage on the cabinetry instead of real wood. For the prototype. That they use to try to sell the thing. But no, they’re not actually being cheap. They chose painted cardboard instead of real construction materials because it is biodegradable. I love it.
- voisin 4y agoCould also have to do with reducing weight.
- diebir 4y agoGood luck heating this thing with electricity. Or air conditioning. Nowhere to go w/o good old fossil fuels.
- bdcravens 4y agoWhat do you mean? All EVs, including the E-Transit this RV is based on, have heat and AC. People are already camping in vehicles like the Model Y, leaving the climate control on all night.
- diebir 4y agoI mean that trying to heat with electricity is not feasible for a van. You need 2-4 kilowatt of heat to stay warm in winter. In summer, AC is another unsolved problem: most of these RVs hang in campgrounds on shore power because this is the only way to get consistent AC in warmer locales.
- cjensen 4y agoI assume this van is meant to have shore power for AC and Heat. Bigger issue is the current range limit of 108 miles. Not really sure why they bothered to design an interior before solving that minor issue.
- SigmundA 4y agoAccording to the Winnenbago rep that I heard talking when I saw it in person they are just working out the systems and design issues so they are ready when the range catches up. This van had a 48v house battery that ran air conditioner and inverter and some DC-DC converters for step down from 400v traction battery to 48v house to 12v systems, they had the electrical system layed out on a board which was interesting. Most RV systems are 12v or 120v at this point in the US.
- Johnny555 4y ago>Bigger issue is the current range limit of 108 miles If that’s 108 highway miles, it would cover about 80% of my RV trips. Even when I go on a long trip, I usually don’t drive much more than 200 miles in a day, so with a charge stop in the middle, this could work even for a long trip. Assuming, of course, that I can find a DC fast charger so a charge stop is 45 minutes and not 8 hours. But RV parks will need time to prepare and put in metered chargers, since most aren’t going to be able to handle many eRVs charging at 240v/50a all night long, many already have trouble keeping up with AC loads on a hot day.
- jshzglr 4y agoI've wanted an EV RV for a while now. The dream would be 400 mile range with good enough solar to sufficiently recharge from 2 weeks off grid.
- scrappyjoe 4y ago400 miles is 640km, which, at 5km/kw (Vanagon) gives you 128kwh. 2 weeks is 14 days, in a sunny climate you can reckon on 5 solid solar hours so 70 charging hours. 128kwh / 70 charging hours is 1.82 kw. You can probably fit a 480w panel on the roof of said reference Vanagon so you will need to get 4 and stack em 4 high. Maybe fold them out like an awning?
- dredmorbius 4y agoIn the van-life world, where photovoltaic electronics frequently supply house power on a conventional ICE vehicle, you will occasionally see either static-deployable panels (i.e., stored aboard the vehicle in transit, but staged on the ground when camped), or fold-out panels (which remain fixed to the vehicle but deploy outward, often providing additional shading). There's also an advantage in warm climates / seasons to a stand-off roof --- air-gap between panels and the actual surface of the vehicle) which provide effective shading and reduce cooling load --- either to permit passive cooling via fans or as an assist to an air-conditioning unit (fairly rare on vans). There's also a pretty frequent use of fuel-based house services: space heat (e.g., Webasto heaters, by Cummins: <https://www.cummins.com/na/sales-and-service/webasto-heating-systems https://www.cummins.com/na/sales-and-service/webasto-heating...>), stovetops (often propane), and hot water, though you'll also see electric (induction cooktop, microwave or electric oven, electric hot-water, resistance strip heating in floors). Latter require a pretty beafy electrical system, generator, and/or "shore power" (connection to grid mains). (I've looked into the van-life thing for a while. Ultimately it's expensive for the nicer rigs and/or involves a lot of sacrifices, and combines risks of a residence and vehicle. Not to say it can't work, but there are major considerations, and the postcard view often provided is not the whole story.)
- bamboozled 4y agoLooks great, would love to own one if I had the spare cash.
- samshapiro 4y ago[dead]
- CraigJPerry 4y agoI’m pretty pro-EV but i’m having a tough time figuring out why we need an EV RV other than for marketing reasons? Is the pitch going to be to provide the missing “grid battery” for our energy strategy, you have a battery that only leaves home 10-12 times a year on average so use a bunch of these spread out across the nation to provide short term energy stores? The normal EV benefits - moving tailpipe emissions out of population centres, reducing maintenance costs, extending vehicle service life, etc etc - these don’t jump out as problems for diesel RVs today.
- stonogo 4y agoAround a million people in the US live in RVs full time. Almost all of them have generators for the times they lack shore power.
- CraigJPerry 4y agoIs that the market this is targeted at? My understanding is that market would be unlikely to afford this product?
- slondr 4y agoPlenty of very rich people in that group. I personally know of at least one couple whose net worth is in the hundreds of millions who live in an RV. Lots of that group are retirees who want to travel full-time, but opted for land transport instead of a yacht. Keep in mind that right now, with gas or diesel motors, there’s winnebagos which almost reach half a million dollars new.
- unforeseen9991 4y agoI'm in that group, and could afford (and am interested) in owning one of these. Many offset the downsides of the generator with solar, which is increasingly viable, but having it all in a EV especially considering fuel prices is a dream. Even then, using the generator only applies with boondocking. When i'm working full time on a project on the road, I just go to a campground or RV park with full hookups.
- SigmundA 4y agoSaw this at the Tampa RV show, it's just a tiny Class B, definitely needs more range but neat to see the progress. My 35ft 30,000 lbs diesel Class A RV has a 800 mile range so will be a while before it interests me. What I am waiting for is someone to get their hands on a Tesla Semi and convert to a large Super C, now that could be interesting.
- latchkey 4y agohttps://vanlifer.com/blogs/news/tesla-semi-campervan-concept-introducing-the-vanlifer-semi-home https://vanlifer.com/blogs/news/tesla-semi-campervan-concept...
- SigmundA 4y agoNobody wants a tiny van sized version with all that carry capacity, instead it would be a stretched super C: https://electrek.co/2022/12/03/tesla-semi-electric-motorhome-renders/ https://electrek.co/2022/12/03/tesla-semi-electric-motorhome... You can already buys similar things on diesel Class 8 chassis I was just sitting in one at the Tampa RV show: https://www.renegaderv.com/rvmodel/2023-renegade-xl/ https://www.renegaderv.com/rvmodel/2023-renegade-xl/
- latchkey 4y agoThis does it more for me... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9XhLca9JSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9XhLca9JSk
- kotaKat 4y agoThe ICE Winnes start at... ~$150K. For that price I could get a fully kitted out F150 Lightning, a nice lightweight travel trailer, and still have the same awful range while towing it but have a useful vehicle once I'm not towing it. And have over $50,000 in extra change to boot.
- aga98mtl 4y agoThe F150 Lightning pricing seems great, but can you buy it at that price? (No) I think that the prices put out in press releases mean nothing if the manufacturers have no intention to deliver a meaningful amount, sold at MRSP, within a year.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dredmorbius 4y agoStealthing is also a thing. It's challenging to stealth-mode (not look like a camper / home when you really are one) with a trailer, less so when you've got a single integrated vehicle. Not that there aren't strong arguments in favour of trailers as well (you note several).
- fajkvadfsdsa 4y agoStealthing is not a thing. Everyone just points and says "oh look, there's someone trying to stealth camp."
- SkyPuncher 4y agoIt's insane how many people think stealthing is a thing. No, your randomly parked commercial van does not magically blend into a neighborhood. Everyone knows that someone is sleeping in it.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
- anonu 4y agoWish we would focus on high range hybrids instead of pure EV.
- SigmundA 4y agoHybrids main use are stop and go urban vehicles, on the highway at constant speed nothing beats a diesel. In gasoline vehicles you can go Atkinson cycle so that the gas engine approaches diesel efficiency with a loss of torque which is made up with electric motor. However if you're driving long distance all time might as well just go diesel like all other long haul vehicles.
- photonbeam 4y agoA series-hybrid is the way. Full electric drivetrain, but with a small gas generator used as a charger to range-extend when not near a fixed chargepoint, or when in motion
- photonbeam 4y agoFollowing up, this company is trying to do this for logging trucks https://www.edisonmotors.ca/ https://www.edisonmotors.ca/
- SigmundA 4y agoMath does not work out, series hybrid will be around 80% efficient while mechanical direct drive is 95%+. This is why nearly all hybrids are parallel and at highway speeds directly connect engine to wheels. Trains do diesel electric for precise traction control not efficiency, they make up the efficiency loss with low rolling resistance and aero drag.
- jillesvangurp 4y agoAll the disadvantages of an ICE vehicle (emissions, maintenance, fuel cost, etc.) without most of the advantages of EVs (no emissions, lower fuel cost, less moving parts and complexity, etc.). There's a reason lots of EV only manufacturers from China and elsewhere are growing market share very rapidly at the cost of manufacturers still building hybrids and ice vehicles: they are better cars, cheaper to manufacture and you can sell them with nice juicy margins.
- amelius 4y agoA motorhome on ars technica is how bad the housing situation has become.
- insane_dreamer 4y agoI’d wait until the Sprinter EV comes Stateside and get one of those fitted out instead of a Transit
- AtlasBarfed 4y agoMeh - crap range - no range extending generator - no highway self driving / driving assist Tesla semi is the seminal EV RV event, when it actually hits mainstream. This thing has a hundred mile range? Probably costs 150k before customization/ outfit? A Tesla semi will probably be 250k for a 400-500 mile range(remember the RV is lighter than a semi load) and will support much wider ranges of customization. So 250k for a hundred mile range or 400k for a 500 mile Tesla RV? And while so much of Tesla self driving is smoke and mirrors, based on watching various supportive/critical videos, it would be enormously useful for highway driving I've driven two c class RVs long range, and wow is it mentally exhausting, RVs require a lot more attention than a car on the highway, I can see a L2 self driving system very useful. The other thing that is very annoying in RVs is the lack of torque, in rolling Midwest you have to build up speed downhill then bleed it off, otherwise the RV downshifts very annoyingly. And the heavy battery lowering the center of gravity will be great too, the RVs are always a bit unstable. And the torque for EVs going up mountains will be incredibly useful. Why two batteries in the water Winnebago? Probably because they don't have the knowhow to tap into the transit battery. That seems pretty slapdash. One thing this crappy range RV design may be alleviated with is if they can make some fuel cell or rotary generator that can charge the battery/ extend the range. If RVs can be all electric while plopped at a site and electric for 50-80% of driven range, that would still be a big improvement. And again, much like the professed total lifecycle economics of the semi, an EV RV or PHEV RV should improve the transit costs significantly. So if the idea is serious driving distances, the initial capital outlay for aN EV drivetrain becomes more palatable with fuel cost savings. Those inside our rotary patents so far haven't gone anywhere. Mazda is finally looking into PHEV rotary, which if the rotary is doing ng constant power output for recharge duty only seems to resolve a lot of issues with Wankels in variable torque output situations, but we'll see. But I have maybe a half million I'd drop on a Tesla semi derived RV with decent highway self driving or driving assist, a compact ICe generator for emergency range extension or backup, solar panels for all electric power, mobile starlink for comms. All of that is very feasible once the semi releases, but I doubt the current RV industry will do it. Tesla is allegedly "visionary" and RVs like this represent attainable housing for the next generation, so maybe Tesla will get into that business.
- downrightmike 4y ago
- thepasswordis 4y agoI really want Tesla to release a large vehicle platform that I could use as a motorhome. FSD/Autopilot for long roadtrips is an indescribably game changer. I recently got an ICE motorhome for long cross country trips and will be no longer taking my Model Y around the country. I'm going to miss the Autopilot quite a bit.
- hbarka 4y agoElectric minivans will sell like hotcakes but why EV carmakers are not onto this idea I don’t know. The large bottom alone could accommodate more cells. 400 EPA miles would be easy. The VW Buzz is probably the closest but it won’t come to the US soon enough. Toyota and Honda make excellent minivans that would be perfect in an EV platform.
- prmoustache 4y agoThere are a lot of them in europe and japan already. Things like peugeot e-rifter, traveler or Nissan nv200.
- EricE 4y agolol - 108 mile range for a thing designed for road trips.