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Good. I don't understand why crypto is as big as it is, it only serves as an enormous grift. I only hope for more exchanges to fail, (Binance, Bitfinex, Kucoi

Good. I don't understand why crypto is as big as it is, it only serves as an enormous grift. I only hope for more exchanges to fail, (Binance, Bitfinex, Kucoin, Huobi, Crypto.com, Kraken, etc) The recent take down of an exchange by the DOJ got me excited that this is finally going to take down crypto prices completely and that everyone will start to forget about them and move on. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cryptocurrency-exchange-charged-processing-over-700-million https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr...

gggggg5 4y ago
>https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cryptocurrency-exchange-charged-processing-over-700-million https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr... Bitzlato, a no-KYC exchange that has never been mentioned on HN before this DoJ announcement. Bitzlato has also essentially never been discussed on reddit, only included in some lists of no-KYC exchanges. Big whoop.
kerpotgh 4y ago
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9tacos 4y ago
I’d like to see this technological scourge wiped out.
- sabujp 4y ago
  you'd like to see consensus algorithms wiped out? https://appinventiv.com/blog/blockchain-consensus-algorithms-guide https://appinventiv.com/blog/blockchain-consensus-algorithms...
  - pavlov 4y ago
    That’s like saying: “Oh, you think multi-level marketing shouldn’t exist? It’s a form of storytelling so apparently you want to destroy all stories, you mean old culture-hater and book-burner.”
    - dodslaser 4y ago
      Also, do cryptobros really believe they invented consensus algorithms as a concept?
      - rsynnott 4y ago
        Some of them seem to believe they invented _cryptography_, so, well, probably. I've seen crypto people genuinely convinced that it is impossible to sign something without the Almighty Blockchain providing its blessing.
      - lazzlazzlazz 4y ago
        Academics have a lot of positive things to say about crypto research.[1],[2],[3] [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfsSV7ni2ZM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfsSV7ni2ZM [2]: https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/21/a16z-debuts-new-crypto-research-team-led-by-columbia-stanford-researchers/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/21/a16z-debuts-new-crypto-res... [3]: https://cs251.stanford.edu https://cs251.stanford.edu
        astrange 4y ago
        Academics are generally extremely happy to get paid.
        pjc50 4y ago
        The one thing academics are known for is not getting paid very well at all. Especially in computing fields.
TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
> Russian national who resides in Shenzhen, People’s Republic of China > arrested last night in Miami Arrested while traveling in the US?
- jnsaff2 4y ago
  US is a funny place, you can't transfer from one international flight to another without entering the country. So flying from UK to Mexico with a stop in Miami will involve immigration and all the jazz in Miami (including the need for a visa if your passport normally requires it). This is usually not the case in Europe. You stay in the non-schengen transfer zone and walk from one gate to another.
  - khuey 4y ago
    Even without formal immigration controls for transfer passengers I'm sure the European authorities are quite capable of consulting the flight manifests and arresting you in transit if they desire.
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      And if ETIAS ever goes live, they’ll be pre-clearing just about everyone before they get on the plane.
- kennyloginz 4y ago
  Much of Coinbase’s operations are located in Miami. If I recall correctly, this individual has been residing in Miami for ~ a year….
tbonesteaks 4y ago
What’s the reason for you thinking it’s an enormous grift? I ask as someone who has read enough to feel it is useful and have a hard wallet with some bitcoin (well not a full bitcoin) but I am not into it enough to do anything stupid or evangelize it to others. So, you feeling the whole thing is a grift, I would really like to know if I’m missing something.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
  It's been in vogue for a couple months. The meta issue is that it lost a ton of value as a store. But so did many many stocks. Idk percentage wise how many companies lost a greater percent of their stock value than Bitcoin has in the past year, but we don't call them grifts. I think digital assets and coins are a pretty neat technology, much of the last bubble was solutions looking for problems. But it's how it goes.
  - tpxl 4y ago
    > Idk percentage wise how many companies lost a greater percent of their stock value than Bitcoin has in the past year, but we don't call them grifts. Companies generally do other things besides being a vehicle for speculation.
    - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
      I mean, so do digital assets. There is plenty of bullshit out there, but when Nikola had a market cap of 14 billion based on someone pushing a hollowed out semi truck down a hill, is that radically different? I don't see it as radically different. And Nikola still has a market cap of 1 billion. The idea of digital assets, of trustless contracts, its still very very interesting to me. That a bubble formed and popped is more of a 'well of course it would' result to me than something to be feared. And maybe someday Nikola solves the truck thing and dominates shipping. I don't know. I think they whining about coins being a vehicle for speculation is puritanical hand wringing. Especially when it comes from the left and is focused on how people, who were quite literally engaged in speculation, lost money.
- 4y ago
brutusborn 4y ago
It's used because it solves a problem: 'trustless' transfer of value (in that you trust the network and not a centralized authority). It's 'big' because people who don't have this problem speculate on Crypto, even if they don't need trustless transfer of value. How else would I pay a cybercriminal without Crypto? I ask this in good faith, I genuinely don't know of any other methods. Unfortunately the current method uses lots of resources, which I'm guessing is why you hate it so much. I'm all for better alternatives, but what are they?
- jnsaff2 4y ago
  How big is the 'trustless' part of the ecosystem? 5%? 1%? Most of the speculation happens on centralized exchanges which very much involves (completely unjustified) trust.
  - brutusborn 4y ago
    For bitcoin, this site suggests ~90% (2 million bitcoin on exchanges vs 20 million in circulation) https://www.coinglass.com/Balance https://www.coinglass.com/Balance
    - notafraudster 4y ago
      Wikipedia tells me there are in fact a hair under 19 million Bitcoin minted. I am willing to believe this site is getting the large exchange component right, or at least conservatively right (conservative in that it's unlikely to be claiming coins that don't exist, but it's possible exchanges have additional coins not listed, and it's possible there are other exchanges not listed). Googling, it seems that the best estimates seem to indicate between 2 and 4 million Bitcoin are permanently lost (lost keys, known hardware failures of failed wallets, unclear if this counts Satoshi's million bitcoins or not). This estimate [0] by an analysis firm who appears to be broadly pro-crypto suggests 3 million lost, and that ~14.5 million BTC are "illiquid". Illiquid obviously doesn't mean lost Illiquid doesn't mean lost, but it suggests something to me about the current conversation. If only ~4.5 million BTC are even a little bit liquid, then it's fair to say that at least half the engagement with BTC in balance terms is on exchanges, and probably more considering velocity of money. Not the grandparent's claim of 99%, but also not your claim of 10%. At the very least, not an obviously settled question. [0] https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-liquid-supply/ https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-liquid-supply/
yieldcrv 4y ago
> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr... Oh no not Bitzlato! /s I can't believe you fell for that, DOJ is the only grifter here. They actually did the FUD pre-announcement and for an exchange nobody ever heard of.
- colesantiago 4y ago
  Did you already forget about FTX? Don't you think that this holds as a warning for other much bigger exchanges? --- To answer your comments: > No I don’t and what does todays announcement have to do with FTX? Both were operating offshore and the DOJ took action on both of them. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ftx-founder-indicted-fraud-money-laundering-and-campaign-finance-offenses https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ftx-founder-indicted-fraud-mo... > while failing to protect anybody from mismanaged and systemically important exchanges. Doesn't matter if it is big or small, an exchange is an exchange, especially one that isn't regulated or in the US. Again, I see this as a warning, don't let the wrath of the DOJ on a small exchange fool you into thinking nothing will happen to other exchanges.
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    No I don’t and what does todays announcement have to do with FTX? Aside from showing that the US government is proactive at investigating irrelevant exchanges while failing to protect anybody from mismanaged and systemically important exchanges.
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      Always funny how crypto-bros espouse the joys of being free from government regulation while also whining that government regulation didn't protect them from crypto grifters.
      - yieldcrv 4y ago
        Is that what you read? I read that people keep using mismanaged companies that happen to broker crypto assets, and then I read you conflate that with "crypto". The best analogy to me is seeing a hardhat incident at a construction company, and deciding that "buildings" are a flawed concept, along with everyone that uses them, and perhaps lumber as well. When you should just criticize the construction company.

gggggg5 4y ago

>https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cryptocurrency-exchange-charged-processing-over-700-million https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr... Bitzlato, a no-KYC exchange that has never been mentioned on HN before this DoJ announcement. Bitzlato has also essentially never been discussed on reddit, only included in some lists of no-KYC exchanges. Big whoop.

kerpotgh 4y ago

[dead]

9tacos 4y ago

I’d like to see this technological scourge wiped out.

sabujp 4y ago
you'd like to see consensus algorithms wiped out? https://appinventiv.com/blog/blockchain-consensus-algorithms-guide https://appinventiv.com/blog/blockchain-consensus-algorithms...
- pavlov 4y ago
  That’s like saying: “Oh, you think multi-level marketing shouldn’t exist? It’s a form of storytelling so apparently you want to destroy all stories, you mean old culture-hater and book-burner.”
  - dodslaser 4y ago
    Also, do cryptobros really believe they invented consensus algorithms as a concept?
    - rsynnott 4y ago
      Some of them seem to believe they invented _cryptography_, so, well, probably. I've seen crypto people genuinely convinced that it is impossible to sign something without the Almighty Blockchain providing its blessing.
    - lazzlazzlazz 4y ago
      Academics have a lot of positive things to say about crypto research.[1],[2],[3] [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfsSV7ni2ZM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfsSV7ni2ZM [2]: https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/21/a16z-debuts-new-crypto-research-team-led-by-columbia-stanford-researchers/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/21/a16z-debuts-new-crypto-res... [3]: https://cs251.stanford.edu https://cs251.stanford.edu
      - astrange 4y ago
        Academics are generally extremely happy to get paid.
        pjc50 4y ago
        The one thing academics are known for is not getting paid very well at all. Especially in computing fields.

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago

> Russian national who resides in Shenzhen, People’s Republic of China > arrested last night in Miami Arrested while traveling in the US?

jnsaff2 4y ago
US is a funny place, you can't transfer from one international flight to another without entering the country. So flying from UK to Mexico with a stop in Miami will involve immigration and all the jazz in Miami (including the need for a visa if your passport normally requires it). This is usually not the case in Europe. You stay in the non-schengen transfer zone and walk from one gate to another.
- khuey 4y ago
  Even without formal immigration controls for transfer passengers I'm sure the European authorities are quite capable of consulting the flight manifests and arresting you in transit if they desire.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    And if ETIAS ever goes live, they’ll be pre-clearing just about everyone before they get on the plane.
kennyloginz 4y ago
Much of Coinbase’s operations are located in Miami. If I recall correctly, this individual has been residing in Miami for ~ a year….

tbonesteaks 4y ago

What’s the reason for you thinking it’s an enormous grift? I ask as someone who has read enough to feel it is useful and have a hard wallet with some bitcoin (well not a full bitcoin) but I am not into it enough to do anything stupid or evangelize it to others. So, you feeling the whole thing is a grift, I would really like to know if I’m missing something.

RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
It's been in vogue for a couple months. The meta issue is that it lost a ton of value as a store. But so did many many stocks. Idk percentage wise how many companies lost a greater percent of their stock value than Bitcoin has in the past year, but we don't call them grifts. I think digital assets and coins are a pretty neat technology, much of the last bubble was solutions looking for problems. But it's how it goes.
- tpxl 4y ago
  > Idk percentage wise how many companies lost a greater percent of their stock value than Bitcoin has in the past year, but we don't call them grifts. Companies generally do other things besides being a vehicle for speculation.
  - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
    I mean, so do digital assets. There is plenty of bullshit out there, but when Nikola had a market cap of 14 billion based on someone pushing a hollowed out semi truck down a hill, is that radically different? I don't see it as radically different. And Nikola still has a market cap of 1 billion. The idea of digital assets, of trustless contracts, its still very very interesting to me. That a bubble formed and popped is more of a 'well of course it would' result to me than something to be feared. And maybe someday Nikola solves the truck thing and dominates shipping. I don't know. I think they whining about coins being a vehicle for speculation is puritanical hand wringing. Especially when it comes from the left and is focused on how people, who were quite literally engaged in speculation, lost money.
4y ago

brutusborn 4y ago

It's used because it solves a problem: 'trustless' transfer of value (in that you trust the network and not a centralized authority). It's 'big' because people who don't have this problem speculate on Crypto, even if they don't need trustless transfer of value. How else would I pay a cybercriminal without Crypto? I ask this in good faith, I genuinely don't know of any other methods. Unfortunately the current method uses lots of resources, which I'm guessing is why you hate it so much. I'm all for better alternatives, but what are they?

jnsaff2 4y ago
How big is the 'trustless' part of the ecosystem? 5%? 1%? Most of the speculation happens on centralized exchanges which very much involves (completely unjustified) trust.
- brutusborn 4y ago
  For bitcoin, this site suggests ~90% (2 million bitcoin on exchanges vs 20 million in circulation) https://www.coinglass.com/Balance https://www.coinglass.com/Balance
  - notafraudster 4y ago
    Wikipedia tells me there are in fact a hair under 19 million Bitcoin minted. I am willing to believe this site is getting the large exchange component right, or at least conservatively right (conservative in that it's unlikely to be claiming coins that don't exist, but it's possible exchanges have additional coins not listed, and it's possible there are other exchanges not listed). Googling, it seems that the best estimates seem to indicate between 2 and 4 million Bitcoin are permanently lost (lost keys, known hardware failures of failed wallets, unclear if this counts Satoshi's million bitcoins or not). This estimate [0] by an analysis firm who appears to be broadly pro-crypto suggests 3 million lost, and that ~14.5 million BTC are "illiquid". Illiquid obviously doesn't mean lost Illiquid doesn't mean lost, but it suggests something to me about the current conversation. If only ~4.5 million BTC are even a little bit liquid, then it's fair to say that at least half the engagement with BTC in balance terms is on exchanges, and probably more considering velocity of money. Not the grandparent's claim of 99%, but also not your claim of 10%. At the very least, not an obviously settled question. [0] https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-liquid-supply/ https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-liquid-supply/

yieldcrv 4y ago

> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr... Oh no not Bitzlato! /s I can't believe you fell for that, DOJ is the only grifter here. They actually did the FUD pre-announcement and for an exchange nobody ever heard of.

colesantiago 4y ago
Did you already forget about FTX? Don't you think that this holds as a warning for other much bigger exchanges? --- To answer your comments: > No I don’t and what does todays announcement have to do with FTX? Both were operating offshore and the DOJ took action on both of them. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ftx-founder-indicted-fraud-money-laundering-and-campaign-finance-offenses https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ftx-founder-indicted-fraud-mo... > while failing to protect anybody from mismanaged and systemically important exchanges. Doesn't matter if it is big or small, an exchange is an exchange, especially one that isn't regulated or in the US. Again, I see this as a warning, don't let the wrath of the DOJ on a small exchange fool you into thinking nothing will happen to other exchanges.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  No I don’t and what does todays announcement have to do with FTX? Aside from showing that the US government is proactive at investigating irrelevant exchanges while failing to protect anybody from mismanaged and systemically important exchanges.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    Always funny how crypto-bros espouse the joys of being free from government regulation while also whining that government regulation didn't protect them from crypto grifters.
    - yieldcrv 4y ago
      Is that what you read? I read that people keep using mismanaged companies that happen to broker crypto assets, and then I read you conflate that with "crypto". The best analogy to me is seeing a hardhat incident at a construction company, and deciding that "buildings" are a flawed concept, along with everyone that uses them, and perhaps lumber as well. When you should just criticize the construction company.