13 ms·

Hyundai Head Unit Hacking

283 points by jandeboevrie 4y ago

xattt 4y ago
What’s the killer app for head units that’s being ignored by car manufacturers?
- photoGrant 4y ago
  I'd love a subscription to heat my seats, or better yet a remote start device that needs the cloud... It would be nice to open physically locked compartments with an app too! And if I could purchase more for my Steam library I'd be almost completely happy with my new advanced motor vehicle.
  - bilbo0s 4y ago
    You just went and gave carmakers some ideas for easy cash grabs. Don't complain when they extrapolate to the subscription based door locks and braking system. Just about everyone would almost have to sign up for them! /s
    - ajross 4y ago
      Too late, you get literally all of that on current Teslas for free (well, Steam games cost money I guess). I actually can't tell if grandparent was being sarcastic or not, but yes: these are already products.
      - xattt 4y ago
        I was indeed being genuine with my question, as I see these hacks (Mazda headunit too) but I’m curious if I’m missing the point other than the sake of tinkering.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      Some already sell unlocks for extra power
  - prottog 4y ago
    I do appreciate the sentiment, but I wonder if there's any actual market demand for a car with nothing smart whatsoever that isn't also a budget econobox?
    - shortstuffsushi 4y ago
      Huh, maybe the people I know are the exception, but everyone I know gripes constantly "ugh, I wish my car didn't have all this electronic crap, I just want the analog stuff and no computer." The exception for at least a portion of that group would be the rear camera, which I believe is now mandated by law, but... the rest of it could be left dumb and I think most people (I know) would be as happy, if not happier. ETA: I guess it could be debated as well whether the "auto brake" type features would be desirable by that group. My personal opinion is no, but I think other threads have indicated I may be in the minority.
      - bentcorner 4y ago
        > a portion of that group would be the rear camera, which I believe is now mandated by law, but... the rest of it could be left dumb and I think most people (I know) would be as happy, if not happier. I rented a uhaul last year and it was mostly analog, with not a screen anywhere on the dash. The backup camera was ingeniously placed under the glass of the rear-view mirror. Most of the gauges were "digital-lite" (lots of lcd/led segmented displays). I'd say if there was a car version with the same interior I would have been quite happy to drive it.
        buran77 4y ago
        I'd say people who object to high-tech-ifying the car aren't against high-tech as much as against bad tech and poor implementation. For example a screen in the car doesn't have to be bad tech. But if the screen is where all the controls of the car are located then it probably is. Internet connectivity doesn't have to be bad tech. But if it allows access to the most critical parts of the car it probably is. Then there are things that aren't bad until you realize they're probably abused by the manufacturer. Your internet connectivity meant to allow you to locate your car in the parking lot is great and might be harmless until the manufacturer starts selling that data to pad the profits. Sometimes all the high tech in the car might be super useful, super secure, super private, and still be bad because in a few years it makes the car prohibitively expensive or outright impossible to maintain and repair.
  - leetbulb 4y ago
    I own two vehicles requiring the cloud for remote start. It's the only useful "cloud" function, too. Very annoying.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    If you got $1500 off the price of the vehicle to instead pay $20/mo, would you do it? What features would be reasonable to gate with this IAP? Especially considering you're not paying interest for that $1500, you only lose money via the subscription if you keep the car for 80 months, or 8 more months than a 72 month loan.
    - photoGrant 4y ago
      My spite trumps their audacity. If I count one more entity looking to shake my pockets empty every month, I'm gonna start calling these crooks Al Capone. No, I don't want to subscribe -- to anything. Anymore.
      - di456 4y ago
        Do you think RICO statutes could be a way out of subscription hell? It smells like a racket but I don't think it legally meets the bar for extortion because it's an at-will transaction between willing parties, and no one is making anyone buy a car. It does seem anticompetitive though so maybe there are antitrust and interoperability angles?
        calvinmorrison 4y ago
        Everything is regulated. Why not a "no subscriptions on safety measures" isn't one i don't know. Having a warm butt is a safety measure
        di456 4y ago
        Too much wiggle room. A cold butt never killed anyone. How about "no subscriptions on titled property"
        calvinmorrison 4y ago
        I think that, subscriptions are fine for items that require a subscription. Sort of circular reasoning but, for example, OnStar or onboard wifi or other things of that nature makes sense as a subscription. Compare to a heated seat. They are some of the simplest circuits out there. Apply 12V and it will heat up a nichrome alloy wire. Same way a cigarette lighter works.
  - m-p-3 4y ago
    Doom, of course.
    - jonathankoren 4y ago
      Carmegeddon
      - m-p-3 4y ago
        Odd way to spell Tesla trollface
  - monksy 4y ago
    That would actually make sense. Most cellular modems are pushed through the head unit, and most car operations are controlled by the canbus. Given this, you could probably talk to the canbus unit to control the seat warmers.
    - BoorishBears 4y ago
      They were being sarcastic, BMW already did this
      - fragmede 4y ago
        https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscription... for the disbelievers
  - nxpnsv 4y ago
    And perhaps we can get some block chain in the units?
- neallindsay 4y ago
  Not applicable for this specific car, but I would really love a way that doesn't involve an ODBC dongle to monitor the nerdy battery details on electric cars. On extremely hot or cold days, battery temperature can make a huge difference in charge rate when you are on a road trip. And when I'm charging it's nice that most cars tell you the number of kilowatts you are receiving, but it would be nice to know exactly how many amps and volts as well.
  - amluto 4y ago
    I would love an ODBC dongle! SQL queries to access diagnostic data would be quite handy. :)
    - rjsw 4y ago
      I hold a patent on an improved way of implementing a diagnostic vehicle network interface, basically HW protocol offload for CAN. Plugging the prototype into a car and getting useful data out of it was satisfying.
    - calvinmorrison 4y ago
      You can get them for about 12 bucks and talk to them over usb. Pretty nifty
      - lelanthran 4y ago
        > You can get them for about 12 bucks and talk to them over usb. Pretty nifty They are quite convenient, but tend to only "see" generic PIDs. The manufacturer specific diagnostic codes are much more useful. I've got one and I've got the actual manufacturer scanner, and there is a world of difference in the utility of what is reported (things like transmission oil temperature, which is needed to correctly set the transmission oil level, etc).
    - btgeekboy 4y ago
      Unlike some of my sibling replies, I see(quel) what you did there.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- nine_k 4y ago
  Get a forward camera view from that vehicle right ahead of you. It of course needs cooperation, but it could make certain maneuvers safer, to my mind.
  - ultrarunner 4y ago
    I think this feature used to be called "not tailgating"
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - _carbyau_ 4y ago
      While I understand your point there are other issues that could be solved similarly. For example, trying to turn from my driveway across two lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic. In the US it'd be a left hand turn, but for me in Australia it's a right hand turn. I wish I could get easier, better visibility of the moving traffic before I turn into that lane. It is always awkward, slow, and difficult. Especially when I am in my normal car surrounded by SUV's.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      Not anymore with age of SUV.
      - nine_k 4y ago
        This. Trucks. too.
        ultrarunner 4y ago
        Too true. https://twitter.com/tomflood1/status/1549036638181138432 https://twitter.com/tomflood1/status/1549036638181138432
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- theshrike79 4y ago
  Not sure about current gen, but you can get plug-in replacement head units for 2010 and older cars at least. They're basically Android tablets with physical buttons and a direct OBD connection.
  - 3np 4y ago
    Where to look for reasonable units? Been scouting but haven't found anything like what you mention which looks realistic. Preferably it should also support flashing a custom ROM but not a deal breaker.
    - theshrike79 4y ago
      AliExpress was the place I started at when I had an older car. (VW Passat 2008)
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Allowing users to turn off crap like the "please fasten seatbelt", "do not drive while impaired", "do not change navigation while driving" or whatever common sense announcements that appear as forced modals every goddamn time you start the car.
  - function_seven 4y ago
    You know that bright yellow ugly-ass label on the sun visor? I used to rant about those. They’re not removable and… like I said, ugly. How I wish that was my only complaint. Now the nav scolds me, the seatbelts hector me, my passenger needs to swear some sort of oath that they “are not driving”, etc. I hate warning labels. For every useful one (e.g. “Pinch Point”, “Not A Step”) there are ten more that believe me to be a hapless infant.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      You can almost certainly get a tool to code all those nags off, or at least most of them. $600+ for a Launch x431 in my case, but worth it.
      - Nextgrid 4y ago
        Unless you're a mechanic that needs to operate on a wide range of cars, I suggest instead looking for a brand-specific scan tool. Universal scan tools like Launch/Autel/Topdon/Snap-on are good in terms of the wide range of makes they support, but they lack in depth - you may not always get the full feature set especially when it comes to "coding" (aka setting configuration parameters) or anything beyond fault codes, live data streams and actuator tests. Brand-specific scan tools on the other hand only cover their specific brand but generally offer a much deeper set of features.
    - samuria 4y ago
      This is why I love BMW. They have the entire coding/updating software used at BMW dealerships online for download (not-official). You can change parameters for almost every feature on the car. Anything from disabling headunit warnings to injector control.
- bentcorner 4y ago
  IMO I'd like a better head unit. Fast responsiveness, making Android Auto come up faster, more reliable bluetooth pairing. Being able to see more data would be cool too. In my car I can't see my historical MPG like I've seen in other cars.
  - monksy 4y ago
    Buy an after market. I.e. Joying.
  - askvictor 4y ago
    This. When doing a bunch of errands, that involve lots of stopping and getting out of the car, then getting back in, it seems to take a good minute for Android Auto to re-load every time I start the engine. Must be even more annoying for delivery drivers. This is on a 2-year old car. I don't even think it's Android Auto that's slowing it down, but the head unit's OS is taking that long to boot before it will allow Android Auto to start. Surely the whole thing could be kept switched on (in sleep mode perhaps) for 30 minutes after the car is stopeed?
  - mike_d 4y ago
    In my old Jeep I replaced the factory U-Connect head unit with an aftermarket Alpine. Unfortunately I think Jeep's are the only target market where you can expect a user to do a DIY head unit swap. https://www.alpine-usa.com/product/jeep-wrangler-radio-apple-carplay-android-auto-i209-wra https://www.alpine-usa.com/product/jeep-wrangler-radio-apple...
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Modular DIN mounts.
- paddy_m 4y ago
  Physical buttons. Fast boot time. I'm looking at buying an aftermarket head unit. The biggest feature for me is the boot time of the head unit, followed by good feeling physical buttons. Suggestions?
  - FractalParadigm 4y ago
    If you have a VW, the RCD330 is an excellent OEM upgrade that is plug & play with most 2005-2015 VWs. I had the same list of requirements on top of Android Auto, and it checks every box. Other OEMs might have similar upgrades that come from other markets.
- guestbest 4y ago
  An on screen keyboard that’s useable while driving like they used to have back in 1999, a century ago
- ilyt 4y ago
  Them not working like shit.
- mhb 4y ago
  If it's a Subaru, that would be an app that leaves the radio in the state it was in when you turned the car off. Instead of the way it is which is for the radio to be on when the car is turned on regardless of how it was left.
  - dfc 4y ago
    The media features on the Subaru are terrible. I want to be able to unset preprogrammed Sirius stations. I have presets 1-19 set but I still have to scroll past preset 28 that someone inadvertently set. My other big complaint is how often it turns on in "Sign up for Sirius mode" despite having an active subscription. All I need to do is hit channel up and it goes to preset #1.
    - bentcorner 4y ago
      There's a factory reset on these recent Subaru head units (if it's anything like mine). Mine had a weird bug where you'd see it intermittently crash/restart, and upon restart it would have lost all your radio stations (and probably some other personalizations). In desperation I wiped it maybe a year ago (because what other options do you have with these things) and I don't think it has happened since.
    - wildzzz 4y ago
      My 2017 Subaru is obnoxious. The Bluetooth audio has a 2-3 second delay, way more than any other Bluetooth device I've ever used. My head unit has the same bug that plays Sirius preview channel. It used to happen all the time but I think what helped was setting all the presents. It would be nice to be able to update the Gracenote database since it's very out of date, I know Bluetooth didn't support album art until AVRCP 1.6 which came out later. I'm considering swapping out the headunit but there are a few car settings the OEM headunit controls that I'm not sure if I want to relinquish control over.
- SkyPuncher 4y ago
  Hyundai, specifically, Android Auto using the entire width of the display. Works on CarPlay, just not Android Auto.
  - el_benhameen 4y ago
    I believe they fixed this in the November update, though I’m not positive (I am a CarPlay user).
    - landgenoot 4y ago
      You are correct
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kris_wayton 4y ago
  If this hack enabled wiring up actual physical buttons for things that need them, that would be handy.
- tastysandwich 4y ago
  Fixing the shitty bluetooth experience. Specifically, ability to disable both autoconnect and autoplay. When my wife takes my car, when she returns the car will automatically connect to my phone even when I've already got headphones on (so my headphones will just cut out). And sometimes I just want to go for a drive with nothing playing, but it will aggressively autoplay without asking. By aggressive I mean, even if the last thing I listened to was an album which I finished, it'll just autoplay the last song again. Then if you want more than one device connected to the car via bluetooth, it becomes a nightmare of device management. It seems to just randomly connect to one or the other.
- el_benhameen 4y ago
  Tiny nitpick, but in my Kia (which uses the same software) the steering wheel button between next/prev track mutes CarPlay play instead of pausing it. Drives me nuts. No idea why they decided to do that. If there was a little less brick risk involved here, I’d give a fix a shot.
- gwbas1c 4y ago
  Honestly, just spend a few hours driving around in a Tesla. The basics (navigation, streaming, radio, garage,) are slick and work. I think if you could package something similar as an OEM and get other car manufacturers to use it... I personally think there's a lot of room for 3rd party audio apps. I don't mind using my phone via Bluetooth / Android Auto / Car Play, but I really just want to install my streaming service's app into the car. One thing that would be nice is, instead of a subscription for data, use my phone's data plan. Or, if you can get data cheaper, in-car wifi.
- IgorPartola 4y ago
  So many. For one, working better. Having a head unit that boots up instantly and connects to Bluetooth instantly would be huge. Second, audio controls that match or exceed what I can do with my phone from which I’m playing audio. BMW’a click dial interface was fantastic the last time I used it. Basically something that is optimized for maximum capability without taking eyes off the road. The holy grail seems to be the ability to text while driving. Nobody has figured this out yet. Voice to text and text to speech are just not great solutions. Add to this the fact that a million apps are used for texting and you really have a huge untapped market. Figuring this out could make someone very rich.
- jesusthatsgreat 4y ago
  Recording & sharing video footage using on-board cameras. I mean the cameras and stream is already there, it's trivial to store the data and make it accessible. Better yet, clips could be filtered by sensors being triggered - alarm, door opening, locking of car, automatic emergency brake engaging etc...
- martin_a 4y ago
  Up to date navigation and Android Auto over the air. I got a model 2019 Hyundai Kona EV and the integrated navigation software is just shit: It's outdated, the saved chargers are not available anymore or just plainly false in regards to their power output, it's just unsuable. So whenever I need good navigation, I have to fiddle with a USB cable so I can rund Android Auto with Google Maps on the head unit.
  - elevendroids 4y ago
    Since late 2020 you can update your head unit yourself for free: https://update.hyundai.com/ https://update.hyundai.com/ You can download an updater (at least for Windows) which downloads the whole head unit update data, which you then just copy to an SD card and stuff it into the reader in your car. There is a similar service for Kia (they share head units with Hyundai - it's basically the same company) https://update.kia.com https://update.kia.com I did a couple of successful updates on my Irish 2017 Cee'd . Maps are updated every few months, Kia claims to provide updates for cars up to 7 years old.
    - martin_a 4y ago
      Thanks, I'll look into this!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- esskay 4y ago
  Personally I'd like the head unit to do as absolutely little as possible. Just run CarPlay and Android Auto and let your phone do the heavy lifting. Headunit software in cars is notoriously awful, slow and rarely gets updated. For this reason they should just offload as much as possible.
  - mns 4y ago
    While I love CarPlay for most of the stuff, I hate navigation from Google Maps or Waze / phone. I'm not sure if it's placebo, or something else, but for my car, the navigation is just better, especially when driving in tunnels and other weak GPS areas. The car system seems to use more than just GPS, like speed, direction and distance and even if you drive in a long tunnel or other similar conditions, it just knows not to mess up the position of the car, miss exits and other things. I know it depends on the manufacturer, but I get regular OTA updates for the navigation, live traffic updates that are quite good, dangerous situations on the road ahead and so on.
    - esskay 4y ago
      Fair point, perhaps the solution is the car should feed back more data through to the CarPlay/Android Auto API to allow them to use that extra information?
    - core-utility 4y ago
      I've never once seen a built-in nav that I liked. They're always clunky, take weird routes, and cost an arm and a leg to update every [other] year. I'd rather buy a Garmin and have dedicated than use the manufacturers option.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      I just don't understand why CarPlay doesn't show the outside temperature. It is readily available information, either from the car itself or from Apple's own weather service. The stock head unit software has no problem doing it. The iPhone has no problem doing it when using its built-in screen. But when CarPlay takes over you're left to guess. Maybe in sunny California you have no reason to care, but in these northern climates it is useful information. Road conditions can change rapidly as you approach the freezing point.
- dncornholio 4y ago
  An app that can turn off the screen completely.
- landgenoot 4y ago
  an API
- iicc 4y ago
  Ridesharing - arguably it's Google Maps who're ignoring it.
- skmexyz 4y ago
  I didn't see anyone give the following features so here goes: 1. Ability to integrate traffic light info (how long they're gonna be red for, how fast do I need to drive to get a green light, how fast should I drive to get as many constant greens as possible, integrate this into adaptive cruse control) - Audis have this feature, but I should not have to buy an Audi just for this. 2. Police info (integrate radar detectors, radio for police freq and Waze etc. directly into the infotainment, heads up display or dash) 3. Integrate CarPlay / Android Auto navigation into heads up display / dash (currently only Honda / Acura does this as far as I know) 4. Play media (Netflix and other popular apps) via wifi when the car is in park mode EDIT: 5. Add ability to integrate dashcams (and SD cards) 6. Add Toll auto-payment apps
BoorishBears 4y ago
Spamming taps on the 4 corners of every screen of an embedded app (with a rich UI at least) will always do something interesting. Across the aeons embedded developers are always drawn back to the simple corner tap. I've personally seen it work everywhere from a gas station air dispenser to an airplane infotainment unit
- hammock 4y ago
  Wow I just had a throwback memory to the “hot corners” of ..windows 95 I believe it was?
- chocolatkey 4y ago
  Reminds me of when Windows 8 had recently been released, and all the laptops on display at electronics stores had a kiosk app installed on them for the demo. Clearly the kiosk devs hadn't really thought things through for the new world of touchscreens, because you could swipe from the right side to expose that godawful windows 8 bar (the one with start in the middle), and escape the kiosk from there.
- grishka 4y ago
  I'm gonna try that everywhere now :P I've also seen some fast food order kiosks have a "manager mode" or simply "settings" button in plain sight. It asks for a password when you tap it.
  - insonable 4y ago
    try "guest"
  - ddalex 4y ago
    just call a manager to help you, watch the code they tap in - they don't give a shit about secrecy and security - and enjoy raised privileges next week
  - BoorishBears 4y ago
    Having designed these screens before, often times the password is something mindless like zeros. If you luck out and it's a pin rather than unbounded input, try zeros or sequential numbers. Usually a well meaning engineer adds the functionality and rigorously tests it... then customers not wanting every technician to ask the local store for a password have every unit set to the same exact easy to guess password. Or so I hear.
gnarbarian 4y ago
I hope Amos doesn't get crucified for leaving amossu in there haha.
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  :) Am os su?
  - all2 4y ago
    I thought it was maybe a joke by a dev who set the binary name to his co-worker's surname. Or something. I feel dull now. :D
    - gnarbarian 4y ago
      no I actually think you're right.
dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago
> Turns out there is a convenient setuid binary called “amossu” in the stock firmware Understatement of the year!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
twobitshifter 4y ago
I thought I was following along but then it got to this and I had no clue where that key came from: “They must be encrypted with AES-128-CBC using key=”)1Zorxo^fAhGlh$#” and IV="aoAkfwk+#1.6G{dE”. Only system.ext4 must be converted to sparse image before the encryption.”
- nick__m 4y ago
  It came from the disassembly of the "uboot.rom (part of lk.rom)" but it is not shown, it is only mentioned.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ilyt 4y ago
  That's an example of why you should use public key cryptography for loading data from untrusted source. AES is symmetric which means any encrypted payload need key used for encryption for decryption. Which means it is on device, just need to dump it. And you can now use same key to encode new firmware
  - jimktrains2 4y ago
    How does that help in this scenario? The need for the unencrypted data necessitates the decryption key on device. Putting it in accessible software rather than a tpm is the problem here. That said, I own the item and I should be able to do what I want with it without technology trying to limit me artificially.
    - viceroyalbean 4y ago
      If it were encrypted with a private key the device would only have a public key and you wouldn't be able to encrypt your own version of the software.
lukeasch21 4y ago
I'm not very familiar with infosec. How is the author able to obtain this information? Are there 2 identical files, one source and another encrypted? >They must be encrypted with AES-128-CBC using key=”)1Zorxo^fAhGlh$#” and IV="aoAkfwk+#1.6G{dE”. Only system.ext4 must be converted to sparse image before the encryption.
- monocasa 4y ago
  By pulling that information out of the disassembly of the u-boot image.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  AES is a symmetrical cypher. The key is just hardcoded into uboot.rom
dmitrygr 4y ago
> Turns out there is a convenient setuid binary called “amossu” in the stock firmware, it simply does: setgid(0); setuid(0); execv("/system/bin/sh",__argv); Amazing!
- QuiDortDine 4y ago
  Is this not... a terrible idea?
  - qclibre22 4y ago
    It's a good idea for debugging, a bad idea for security.
  - mike_d 4y ago
    Depends on if you give untrusted users access to a shell on your car's infotainment system.
  - alex_duf 4y ago
    you probably wouldn't want to ship that in the final image, but then again, if someone is capable of fiddling with the image, nothing stops them from writing these three lines of code, compile and add the binary to the image. So I don't think it's that bad.
    - BoorishBears 4y ago
      What's bad is that it works. SELinux would have let them block out those kinds of low hanging fruit, but let's be thankful they didn't bother

283 points by jandeboevrie 4y ago

xattt 4y ago

What’s the killer app for head units that’s being ignored by car manufacturers?

photoGrant 4y ago
I'd love a subscription to heat my seats, or better yet a remote start device that needs the cloud... It would be nice to open physically locked compartments with an app too! And if I could purchase more for my Steam library I'd be almost completely happy with my new advanced motor vehicle.
- bilbo0s 4y ago
  You just went and gave carmakers some ideas for easy cash grabs. Don't complain when they extrapolate to the subscription based door locks and braking system. Just about everyone would almost have to sign up for them! /s
  - ajross 4y ago
    Too late, you get literally all of that on current Teslas for free (well, Steam games cost money I guess). I actually can't tell if grandparent was being sarcastic or not, but yes: these are already products.
    - xattt 4y ago
      I was indeed being genuine with my question, as I see these hacks (Mazda headunit too) but I’m curious if I’m missing the point other than the sake of tinkering.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Some already sell unlocks for extra power
- prottog 4y ago
  I do appreciate the sentiment, but I wonder if there's any actual market demand for a car with nothing smart whatsoever that isn't also a budget econobox?
  - shortstuffsushi 4y ago
    Huh, maybe the people I know are the exception, but everyone I know gripes constantly "ugh, I wish my car didn't have all this electronic crap, I just want the analog stuff and no computer." The exception for at least a portion of that group would be the rear camera, which I believe is now mandated by law, but... the rest of it could be left dumb and I think most people (I know) would be as happy, if not happier. ETA: I guess it could be debated as well whether the "auto brake" type features would be desirable by that group. My personal opinion is no, but I think other threads have indicated I may be in the minority.
    - bentcorner 4y ago
      > a portion of that group would be the rear camera, which I believe is now mandated by law, but... the rest of it could be left dumb and I think most people (I know) would be as happy, if not happier. I rented a uhaul last year and it was mostly analog, with not a screen anywhere on the dash. The backup camera was ingeniously placed under the glass of the rear-view mirror. Most of the gauges were "digital-lite" (lots of lcd/led segmented displays). I'd say if there was a car version with the same interior I would have been quite happy to drive it.
      - buran77 4y ago
        I'd say people who object to high-tech-ifying the car aren't against high-tech as much as against bad tech and poor implementation. For example a screen in the car doesn't have to be bad tech. But if the screen is where all the controls of the car are located then it probably is. Internet connectivity doesn't have to be bad tech. But if it allows access to the most critical parts of the car it probably is. Then there are things that aren't bad until you realize they're probably abused by the manufacturer. Your internet connectivity meant to allow you to locate your car in the parking lot is great and might be harmless until the manufacturer starts selling that data to pad the profits. Sometimes all the high tech in the car might be super useful, super secure, super private, and still be bad because in a few years it makes the car prohibitively expensive or outright impossible to maintain and repair.
- leetbulb 4y ago
  I own two vehicles requiring the cloud for remote start. It's the only useful "cloud" function, too. Very annoying.
- judge2020 4y ago
  If you got $1500 off the price of the vehicle to instead pay $20/mo, would you do it? What features would be reasonable to gate with this IAP? Especially considering you're not paying interest for that $1500, you only lose money via the subscription if you keep the car for 80 months, or 8 more months than a 72 month loan.
  - photoGrant 4y ago
    My spite trumps their audacity. If I count one more entity looking to shake my pockets empty every month, I'm gonna start calling these crooks Al Capone. No, I don't want to subscribe -- to anything. Anymore.
    - di456 4y ago
      Do you think RICO statutes could be a way out of subscription hell? It smells like a racket but I don't think it legally meets the bar for extortion because it's an at-will transaction between willing parties, and no one is making anyone buy a car. It does seem anticompetitive though so maybe there are antitrust and interoperability angles?
      - calvinmorrison 4y ago
        Everything is regulated. Why not a "no subscriptions on safety measures" isn't one i don't know. Having a warm butt is a safety measure
        di456 4y ago
        Too much wiggle room. A cold butt never killed anyone. How about "no subscriptions on titled property"
        calvinmorrison 4y ago
        I think that, subscriptions are fine for items that require a subscription. Sort of circular reasoning but, for example, OnStar or onboard wifi or other things of that nature makes sense as a subscription. Compare to a heated seat. They are some of the simplest circuits out there. Apply 12V and it will heat up a nichrome alloy wire. Same way a cigarette lighter works.
- m-p-3 4y ago
  Doom, of course.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    Carmegeddon
    - m-p-3 4y ago
      Odd way to spell Tesla trollface
- monksy 4y ago
  That would actually make sense. Most cellular modems are pushed through the head unit, and most car operations are controlled by the canbus. Given this, you could probably talk to the canbus unit to control the seat warmers.
  - BoorishBears 4y ago
    They were being sarcastic, BMW already did this
    - fragmede 4y ago
      https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscription... for the disbelievers
- nxpnsv 4y ago
  And perhaps we can get some block chain in the units?
neallindsay 4y ago
Not applicable for this specific car, but I would really love a way that doesn't involve an ODBC dongle to monitor the nerdy battery details on electric cars. On extremely hot or cold days, battery temperature can make a huge difference in charge rate when you are on a road trip. And when I'm charging it's nice that most cars tell you the number of kilowatts you are receiving, but it would be nice to know exactly how many amps and volts as well.
- amluto 4y ago
  I would love an ODBC dongle! SQL queries to access diagnostic data would be quite handy. :)
  - rjsw 4y ago
    I hold a patent on an improved way of implementing a diagnostic vehicle network interface, basically HW protocol offload for CAN. Plugging the prototype into a car and getting useful data out of it was satisfying.
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    You can get them for about 12 bucks and talk to them over usb. Pretty nifty
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > You can get them for about 12 bucks and talk to them over usb. Pretty nifty They are quite convenient, but tend to only "see" generic PIDs. The manufacturer specific diagnostic codes are much more useful. I've got one and I've got the actual manufacturer scanner, and there is a world of difference in the utility of what is reported (things like transmission oil temperature, which is needed to correctly set the transmission oil level, etc).
  - btgeekboy 4y ago
    Unlike some of my sibling replies, I see(quel) what you did there.
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nine_k 4y ago
Get a forward camera view from that vehicle right ahead of you. It of course needs cooperation, but it could make certain maneuvers safer, to my mind.
- ultrarunner 4y ago
  I think this feature used to be called "not tailgating"
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - _carbyau_ 4y ago
    While I understand your point there are other issues that could be solved similarly. For example, trying to turn from my driveway across two lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic. In the US it'd be a left hand turn, but for me in Australia it's a right hand turn. I wish I could get easier, better visibility of the moving traffic before I turn into that lane. It is always awkward, slow, and difficult. Especially when I am in my normal car surrounded by SUV's.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Not anymore with age of SUV.
    - nine_k 4y ago
      This. Trucks. too.
      - ultrarunner 4y ago
        Too true. https://twitter.com/tomflood1/status/1549036638181138432 https://twitter.com/tomflood1/status/1549036638181138432
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
theshrike79 4y ago
Not sure about current gen, but you can get plug-in replacement head units for 2010 and older cars at least. They're basically Android tablets with physical buttons and a direct OBD connection.
- 3np 4y ago
  Where to look for reasonable units? Been scouting but haven't found anything like what you mention which looks realistic. Preferably it should also support flashing a custom ROM but not a deal breaker.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    AliExpress was the place I started at when I had an older car. (VW Passat 2008)
mschuster91 4y ago
Allowing users to turn off crap like the "please fasten seatbelt", "do not drive while impaired", "do not change navigation while driving" or whatever common sense announcements that appear as forced modals every goddamn time you start the car.
- function_seven 4y ago
  You know that bright yellow ugly-ass label on the sun visor? I used to rant about those. They’re not removable and… like I said, ugly. How I wish that was my only complaint. Now the nav scolds me, the seatbelts hector me, my passenger needs to swear some sort of oath that they “are not driving”, etc. I hate warning labels. For every useful one (e.g. “Pinch Point”, “Not A Step”) there are ten more that believe me to be a hapless infant.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    You can almost certainly get a tool to code all those nags off, or at least most of them. $600+ for a Launch x431 in my case, but worth it.
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      Unless you're a mechanic that needs to operate on a wide range of cars, I suggest instead looking for a brand-specific scan tool. Universal scan tools like Launch/Autel/Topdon/Snap-on are good in terms of the wide range of makes they support, but they lack in depth - you may not always get the full feature set especially when it comes to "coding" (aka setting configuration parameters) or anything beyond fault codes, live data streams and actuator tests. Brand-specific scan tools on the other hand only cover their specific brand but generally offer a much deeper set of features.
  - samuria 4y ago
    This is why I love BMW. They have the entire coding/updating software used at BMW dealerships online for download (not-official). You can change parameters for almost every feature on the car. Anything from disabling headunit warnings to injector control.
bentcorner 4y ago
IMO I'd like a better head unit. Fast responsiveness, making Android Auto come up faster, more reliable bluetooth pairing. Being able to see more data would be cool too. In my car I can't see my historical MPG like I've seen in other cars.
- monksy 4y ago
  Buy an after market. I.e. Joying.
- askvictor 4y ago
  This. When doing a bunch of errands, that involve lots of stopping and getting out of the car, then getting back in, it seems to take a good minute for Android Auto to re-load every time I start the engine. Must be even more annoying for delivery drivers. This is on a 2-year old car. I don't even think it's Android Auto that's slowing it down, but the head unit's OS is taking that long to boot before it will allow Android Auto to start. Surely the whole thing could be kept switched on (in sleep mode perhaps) for 30 minutes after the car is stopeed?
- mike_d 4y ago
  In my old Jeep I replaced the factory U-Connect head unit with an aftermarket Alpine. Unfortunately I think Jeep's are the only target market where you can expect a user to do a DIY head unit swap. https://www.alpine-usa.com/product/jeep-wrangler-radio-apple-carplay-android-auto-i209-wra https://www.alpine-usa.com/product/jeep-wrangler-radio-apple...
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
Modular DIN mounts.
paddy_m 4y ago
Physical buttons. Fast boot time. I'm looking at buying an aftermarket head unit. The biggest feature for me is the boot time of the head unit, followed by good feeling physical buttons. Suggestions?
- FractalParadigm 4y ago
  If you have a VW, the RCD330 is an excellent OEM upgrade that is plug & play with most 2005-2015 VWs. I had the same list of requirements on top of Android Auto, and it checks every box. Other OEMs might have similar upgrades that come from other markets.
guestbest 4y ago
An on screen keyboard that’s useable while driving like they used to have back in 1999, a century ago
ilyt 4y ago
Them not working like shit.
mhb 4y ago
If it's a Subaru, that would be an app that leaves the radio in the state it was in when you turned the car off. Instead of the way it is which is for the radio to be on when the car is turned on regardless of how it was left.
- dfc 4y ago
  The media features on the Subaru are terrible. I want to be able to unset preprogrammed Sirius stations. I have presets 1-19 set but I still have to scroll past preset 28 that someone inadvertently set. My other big complaint is how often it turns on in "Sign up for Sirius mode" despite having an active subscription. All I need to do is hit channel up and it goes to preset #1.
  - bentcorner 4y ago
    There's a factory reset on these recent Subaru head units (if it's anything like mine). Mine had a weird bug where you'd see it intermittently crash/restart, and upon restart it would have lost all your radio stations (and probably some other personalizations). In desperation I wiped it maybe a year ago (because what other options do you have with these things) and I don't think it has happened since.
  - wildzzz 4y ago
    My 2017 Subaru is obnoxious. The Bluetooth audio has a 2-3 second delay, way more than any other Bluetooth device I've ever used. My head unit has the same bug that plays Sirius preview channel. It used to happen all the time but I think what helped was setting all the presents. It would be nice to be able to update the Gracenote database since it's very out of date, I know Bluetooth didn't support album art until AVRCP 1.6 which came out later. I'm considering swapping out the headunit but there are a few car settings the OEM headunit controls that I'm not sure if I want to relinquish control over.
SkyPuncher 4y ago
Hyundai, specifically, Android Auto using the entire width of the display. Works on CarPlay, just not Android Auto.
- el_benhameen 4y ago
  I believe they fixed this in the November update, though I’m not positive (I am a CarPlay user).
  - landgenoot 4y ago
    You are correct
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kris_wayton 4y ago
If this hack enabled wiring up actual physical buttons for things that need them, that would be handy.
tastysandwich 4y ago
Fixing the shitty bluetooth experience. Specifically, ability to disable both autoconnect and autoplay. When my wife takes my car, when she returns the car will automatically connect to my phone even when I've already got headphones on (so my headphones will just cut out). And sometimes I just want to go for a drive with nothing playing, but it will aggressively autoplay without asking. By aggressive I mean, even if the last thing I listened to was an album which I finished, it'll just autoplay the last song again. Then if you want more than one device connected to the car via bluetooth, it becomes a nightmare of device management. It seems to just randomly connect to one or the other.
el_benhameen 4y ago
Tiny nitpick, but in my Kia (which uses the same software) the steering wheel button between next/prev track mutes CarPlay play instead of pausing it. Drives me nuts. No idea why they decided to do that. If there was a little less brick risk involved here, I’d give a fix a shot.
gwbas1c 4y ago
Honestly, just spend a few hours driving around in a Tesla. The basics (navigation, streaming, radio, garage,) are slick and work. I think if you could package something similar as an OEM and get other car manufacturers to use it... I personally think there's a lot of room for 3rd party audio apps. I don't mind using my phone via Bluetooth / Android Auto / Car Play, but I really just want to install my streaming service's app into the car. One thing that would be nice is, instead of a subscription for data, use my phone's data plan. Or, if you can get data cheaper, in-car wifi.
IgorPartola 4y ago
So many. For one, working better. Having a head unit that boots up instantly and connects to Bluetooth instantly would be huge. Second, audio controls that match or exceed what I can do with my phone from which I’m playing audio. BMW’a click dial interface was fantastic the last time I used it. Basically something that is optimized for maximum capability without taking eyes off the road. The holy grail seems to be the ability to text while driving. Nobody has figured this out yet. Voice to text and text to speech are just not great solutions. Add to this the fact that a million apps are used for texting and you really have a huge untapped market. Figuring this out could make someone very rich.
jesusthatsgreat 4y ago
Recording & sharing video footage using on-board cameras. I mean the cameras and stream is already there, it's trivial to store the data and make it accessible. Better yet, clips could be filtered by sensors being triggered - alarm, door opening, locking of car, automatic emergency brake engaging etc...
martin_a 4y ago
Up to date navigation and Android Auto over the air. I got a model 2019 Hyundai Kona EV and the integrated navigation software is just shit: It's outdated, the saved chargers are not available anymore or just plainly false in regards to their power output, it's just unsuable. So whenever I need good navigation, I have to fiddle with a USB cable so I can rund Android Auto with Google Maps on the head unit.
- elevendroids 4y ago
  Since late 2020 you can update your head unit yourself for free: https://update.hyundai.com/ https://update.hyundai.com/ You can download an updater (at least for Windows) which downloads the whole head unit update data, which you then just copy to an SD card and stuff it into the reader in your car. There is a similar service for Kia (they share head units with Hyundai - it's basically the same company) https://update.kia.com https://update.kia.com I did a couple of successful updates on my Irish 2017 Cee'd . Maps are updated every few months, Kia claims to provide updates for cars up to 7 years old.
  - martin_a 4y ago
    Thanks, I'll look into this!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
esskay 4y ago
Personally I'd like the head unit to do as absolutely little as possible. Just run CarPlay and Android Auto and let your phone do the heavy lifting. Headunit software in cars is notoriously awful, slow and rarely gets updated. For this reason they should just offload as much as possible.
- mns 4y ago
  While I love CarPlay for most of the stuff, I hate navigation from Google Maps or Waze / phone. I'm not sure if it's placebo, or something else, but for my car, the navigation is just better, especially when driving in tunnels and other weak GPS areas. The car system seems to use more than just GPS, like speed, direction and distance and even if you drive in a long tunnel or other similar conditions, it just knows not to mess up the position of the car, miss exits and other things. I know it depends on the manufacturer, but I get regular OTA updates for the navigation, live traffic updates that are quite good, dangerous situations on the road ahead and so on.
  - esskay 4y ago
    Fair point, perhaps the solution is the car should feed back more data through to the CarPlay/Android Auto API to allow them to use that extra information?
  - core-utility 4y ago
    I've never once seen a built-in nav that I liked. They're always clunky, take weird routes, and cost an arm and a leg to update every [other] year. I'd rather buy a Garmin and have dedicated than use the manufacturers option.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    I just don't understand why CarPlay doesn't show the outside temperature. It is readily available information, either from the car itself or from Apple's own weather service. The stock head unit software has no problem doing it. The iPhone has no problem doing it when using its built-in screen. But when CarPlay takes over you're left to guess. Maybe in sunny California you have no reason to care, but in these northern climates it is useful information. Road conditions can change rapidly as you approach the freezing point.
dncornholio 4y ago
An app that can turn off the screen completely.
landgenoot 4y ago
an API
iicc 4y ago
Ridesharing - arguably it's Google Maps who're ignoring it.
skmexyz 4y ago
I didn't see anyone give the following features so here goes: 1. Ability to integrate traffic light info (how long they're gonna be red for, how fast do I need to drive to get a green light, how fast should I drive to get as many constant greens as possible, integrate this into adaptive cruse control) - Audis have this feature, but I should not have to buy an Audi just for this. 2. Police info (integrate radar detectors, radio for police freq and Waze etc. directly into the infotainment, heads up display or dash) 3. Integrate CarPlay / Android Auto navigation into heads up display / dash (currently only Honda / Acura does this as far as I know) 4. Play media (Netflix and other popular apps) via wifi when the car is in park mode EDIT: 5. Add ability to integrate dashcams (and SD cards) 6. Add Toll auto-payment apps

BoorishBears 4y ago

Spamming taps on the 4 corners of every screen of an embedded app (with a rich UI at least) will always do something interesting. Across the aeons embedded developers are always drawn back to the simple corner tap. I've personally seen it work everywhere from a gas station air dispenser to an airplane infotainment unit

hammock 4y ago
Wow I just had a throwback memory to the “hot corners” of ..windows 95 I believe it was?
chocolatkey 4y ago
Reminds me of when Windows 8 had recently been released, and all the laptops on display at electronics stores had a kiosk app installed on them for the demo. Clearly the kiosk devs hadn't really thought things through for the new world of touchscreens, because you could swipe from the right side to expose that godawful windows 8 bar (the one with start in the middle), and escape the kiosk from there.
grishka 4y ago
I'm gonna try that everywhere now :P I've also seen some fast food order kiosks have a "manager mode" or simply "settings" button in plain sight. It asks for a password when you tap it.
- insonable 4y ago
  try "guest"
- ddalex 4y ago
  just call a manager to help you, watch the code they tap in - they don't give a shit about secrecy and security - and enjoy raised privileges next week
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  Having designed these screens before, often times the password is something mindless like zeros. If you luck out and it's a pin rather than unbounded input, try zeros or sequential numbers. Usually a well meaning engineer adds the functionality and rigorously tests it... then customers not wanting every technician to ask the local store for a password have every unit set to the same exact easy to guess password. Or so I hear.

gnarbarian 4y ago

I hope Amos doesn't get crucified for leaving amossu in there haha.

twobitshifter 4y ago
:) Am os su?
- all2 4y ago
  I thought it was maybe a joke by a dev who set the binary name to his co-worker's surname. Or something. I feel dull now. :D
  - gnarbarian 4y ago
    no I actually think you're right.

dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago

> Turns out there is a convenient setuid binary called “amossu” in the stock firmware Understatement of the year!

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twobitshifter 4y ago

I thought I was following along but then it got to this and I had no clue where that key came from: “They must be encrypted with AES-128-CBC using key=”)1Zorxo^fAhGlh$#” and IV="aoAkfwk+#1.6G{dE”. Only system.ext4 must be converted to sparse image before the encryption.”

nick__m 4y ago
It came from the disassembly of the "uboot.rom (part of lk.rom)" but it is not shown, it is only mentioned.
deleted 4y ago
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ilyt 4y ago
That's an example of why you should use public key cryptography for loading data from untrusted source. AES is symmetric which means any encrypted payload need key used for encryption for decryption. Which means it is on device, just need to dump it. And you can now use same key to encode new firmware
- jimktrains2 4y ago
  How does that help in this scenario? The need for the unencrypted data necessitates the decryption key on device. Putting it in accessible software rather than a tpm is the problem here. That said, I own the item and I should be able to do what I want with it without technology trying to limit me artificially.
  - viceroyalbean 4y ago
    If it were encrypted with a private key the device would only have a public key and you wouldn't be able to encrypt your own version of the software.

lukeasch21 4y ago

I'm not very familiar with infosec. How is the author able to obtain this information? Are there 2 identical files, one source and another encrypted? >They must be encrypted with AES-128-CBC using key=”)1Zorxo^fAhGlh$#” and IV="aoAkfwk+#1.6G{dE”. Only system.ext4 must be converted to sparse image before the encryption.

monocasa 4y ago
By pulling that information out of the disassembly of the u-boot image.
charcircuit 4y ago
AES is a symmetrical cypher. The key is just hardcoded into uboot.rom

dmitrygr 4y ago

> Turns out there is a convenient setuid binary called “amossu” in the stock firmware, it simply does: setgid(0); setuid(0); execv("/system/bin/sh",__argv); Amazing!

QuiDortDine 4y ago
Is this not... a terrible idea?
- qclibre22 4y ago
  It's a good idea for debugging, a bad idea for security.
- mike_d 4y ago
  Depends on if you give untrusted users access to a shell on your car's infotainment system.
- alex_duf 4y ago
  you probably wouldn't want to ship that in the final image, but then again, if someone is capable of fiddling with the image, nothing stops them from writing these three lines of code, compile and add the binary to the image. So I don't think it's that bad.
  - BoorishBears 4y ago
    What's bad is that it works. SELinux would have let them block out those kinds of low hanging fruit, but let's be thankful they didn't bother