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> And by the launch of the phone that was fixed... I fail to see how that's the same thing. I mean... they haven't launched Full Self Driving. You can (for mon

by wilg 4y ago

> And by the launch of the phone that was fixed... I fail to see how that's the same thing. I mean... they haven't launched Full Self Driving. You can (for money) get a beta that requires you to remain in control of the car and often makes mistakes. But the beta does most of the stuff shown in the video.

buran77 4y ago
> But the beta does most of the stuff shown in the video. Today, after ~7 more years of development? Can it do them consistently or "80% of the time it works every time"? Because that's the problem, the bar for an autonomous driving system to be useful is high. Below that bar you either have just a set of driver assists that have no claim at real autonomy, and have existed for (relatively) cheap for years, or you have the the "Goldilocks zone" of dangerous tech, smart enough to coax you into handing over the control but too dumb to be actually capable of taking over.
- wilg 4y ago
  None of this is relevant to my comment.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    He is saying that "FSD" is unlikely to launch any time soon so either you spin it in your favour or you don't.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- sahaj 4y ago
  It's hard for some to see this point of view unfortunately, no matter how you try it. Elon has been intentionally skirting and blurring the line between lying and marketing for a while now.
lumost 4y ago
They sold FSD as something coming soon. I considered buying a car with it in 2019. Had I bought that car, it would likely have hit the end of its 10 year lifespan before FSD ships. Assuming that Tesla ever ships FSD for a ten year old vehicle.
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  Not just coming soon. In 2019 Musk claimed it would be financially insane not to buy a Tesla because by 2020 it would become a robo taxi earning you tens of thousands a year.
PeterisP 4y ago
They have launched Full Self Driving - it's being sold to general public, it's being advertised to general public, and it's being used by general public as a product; the legalese fine-print disclaimer about 'beta' doesn't change that.
- wilg 4y ago
  But not in the sense of the video’s claim, that you do not have to interact with the vehicle. The beta is a driver assist system you must carefully monitor and intervene, the final product is autonomous.
- trogdor 4y ago
  FYI, Tesla does not sell anything called “Full Self Driving.” That people think they do is a product of their [probably intentionally misleading] marketing. Tesla sells “Full Self Driving Capability.” Just like I have the capability of running a marathon. I just haven’t done it. And I probably won’t…
  - valleyer 4y ago
    That is what most people would call "a distinction without a difference".
    - trogdor 4y ago
      I think lawyers would disagree, and that the extra word is there to limit legal exposure.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Do you actually have capability to run marathon? You know you would finish before time runs out and you know your body would not be able to complete it? Untrained people can't and get injury, get sick or just can't continue.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Full Self-Driving Capability is not capable of full self-driving. (An honest name might be “Full Self-Driving Aspirational Future Upgradeability with Limited Self-Driving Capability”, but that probably wouldn't sell as well since it would set realistic expectations.)
jm4 4y ago
I have FSD and it is a joke. It is so bad I don’t know where to begin. This software has no place on a public road. All it’s good for is tech demos. They are going to kill people who were fooled into thinking FSD actually works.
Justin_K 4y ago
An exit from beta has been promised for years. I think this is what most people take issue with. https://youtube.com/watch?v=zhr6fHmCJ6k&feature=shares https://youtube.com/watch?v=zhr6fHmCJ6k&feature=shares

by wilg 4y ago

buran77 4y ago

> But the beta does most of the stuff shown in the video. Today, after ~7 more years of development? Can it do them consistently or "80% of the time it works every time"? Because that's the problem, the bar for an autonomous driving system to be useful is high. Below that bar you either have just a set of driver assists that have no claim at real autonomy, and have existed for (relatively) cheap for years, or you have the the "Goldilocks zone" of dangerous tech, smart enough to coax you into handing over the control but too dumb to be actually capable of taking over.

wilg 4y ago
None of this is relevant to my comment.
- imtringued 4y ago
  He is saying that "FSD" is unlikely to launch any time soon so either you spin it in your favour or you don't.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
sahaj 4y ago
It's hard for some to see this point of view unfortunately, no matter how you try it. Elon has been intentionally skirting and blurring the line between lying and marketing for a while now.

lumost 4y ago

They sold FSD as something coming soon. I considered buying a car with it in 2019. Had I bought that car, it would likely have hit the end of its 10 year lifespan before FSD ships. Assuming that Tesla ever ships FSD for a ten year old vehicle.

rhaway84773 4y ago
Not just coming soon. In 2019 Musk claimed it would be financially insane not to buy a Tesla because by 2020 it would become a robo taxi earning you tens of thousands a year.

PeterisP 4y ago

They have launched Full Self Driving - it's being sold to general public, it's being advertised to general public, and it's being used by general public as a product; the legalese fine-print disclaimer about 'beta' doesn't change that.

wilg 4y ago
But not in the sense of the video’s claim, that you do not have to interact with the vehicle. The beta is a driver assist system you must carefully monitor and intervene, the final product is autonomous.
trogdor 4y ago
FYI, Tesla does not sell anything called “Full Self Driving.” That people think they do is a product of their [probably intentionally misleading] marketing. Tesla sells “Full Self Driving Capability.” Just like I have the capability of running a marathon. I just haven’t done it. And I probably won’t…
- valleyer 4y ago
  That is what most people would call "a distinction without a difference".
  - trogdor 4y ago
    I think lawyers would disagree, and that the extra word is there to limit legal exposure.
- watwut 4y ago
  Do you actually have capability to run marathon? You know you would finish before time runs out and you know your body would not be able to complete it? Untrained people can't and get injury, get sick or just can't continue.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  Full Self-Driving Capability is not capable of full self-driving. (An honest name might be “Full Self-Driving Aspirational Future Upgradeability with Limited Self-Driving Capability”, but that probably wouldn't sell as well since it would set realistic expectations.)

jm4 4y ago

I have FSD and it is a joke. It is so bad I don’t know where to begin. This software has no place on a public road. All it’s good for is tech demos. They are going to kill people who were fooled into thinking FSD actually works.

Justin_K 4y ago

An exit from beta has been promised for years. I think this is what most people take issue with. https://youtube.com/watch?v=zhr6fHmCJ6k&feature=shares https://youtube.com/watch?v=zhr6fHmCJ6k&feature=shares