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The Pretty Good House
- Rebelgecko 4y agoI always assumed that "defenestration" was one of those words like under/overwhelmed where it's only ever used with a prefix. Cool to see a book with a section on fenestration
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoAn industry trade show is (or at least was) called "Fenestration".
- tomcam 4y agoI found it gruntling.
- dankolbert 4y agoIs that a dis?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tomcam 4y agoThat was good!
- zootboy 4y agoThere's a term for that: unpaired word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpaired_word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpaired_word
- moffkalast 4y agoIf a 'rebuttal' is an "instance of rebutting evidence or an accusation" then 'butting' ought to be making the said accusation. And it seems being 'whelmed' is already in common use, as a mediocre middle ground feeling between over and underwhelmed.
- georgeoliver 4y agoIt was fun to listen to Dan Kolbert a while back where he talked a little about this, https://www.keepcraftalive.org/keep-craft-alive-podcast-ep-12-dan-kolbert-builder/ https://www.keepcraftalive.org/keep-craft-alive-podcast-ep-1..., the (at least partly tongue-in-cheek) quote that still sticks in my mind is that his business was, until he got into high-performance building, "improving the lives of the bourgeoisie one kitchen at a time".
- WC3w6pXxgGd 4y ago[dead]
- rswerve 4y agoInteresting. Looks like a more nitty-gritty complement to the Not So Big House movement that had a moment around the turn of the century. https://susanka.com/not-so-big-house/ https://susanka.com/not-so-big-house/
- toomuchtodo 4y agoHighly recommend the book. I have one for reference and I hand them out as gifts to those I encounter interested in building sciences and pragmatic high performance homes.
- dankolbert 4y agoA friend told me about the post. Thanks for the kind words. Glad you’ve all found it useful.
- nbar 4y agoDan do you ever talk about retro fitting old houses at your monthly talks. It would wonderful to learn what can be done to existing (my home is 1880’s) buildings to improve their performance.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- fy20 4y agoNot exactly the same, but my city is retrofitting a lot of Soviet-era apartment blocks to bring them up to modern standards. They are made out of concrete with no insulation and were built when (natural) gas was basically free. The bulk of the work is wrapping the building in 25cm of rigid foam exterior insulation, replacing windows and making sure that they are fairly air tight. They aren't adding mechanical ventilation, as installation would cause too much disruption to residents who are living there. Heating systems are being upgraded to newer units if they are old and inefficient (still powered by gas or district heating, no heat pumps). The main issue with older buildings is often you want to maintain the 'character' so wrapping the building in external insulation and replacing the facade isn't always an option. However if you have a building made of masonry this is the best way to insulate it, as the masonry then acts as a thermal mass to keep temperatures inside more stable (in both hot and cold weather). These apartment blocks were ugly concrete that nobody wants to ever see again though, so it's not an issue here :-)
- michpoch 4y agoI see some early trends in Poland (a lot of soviet-style concrete blocks of flats) where the modernisation is done better. Article in Polish, but worth translating or just looking at the photos: https://www.money.pl/gospodarka/w-tym-miescie-nie-martwia-sie-cenami-wegla-i-gazu-bo-nie-musza-6820463567457088a.html https://www.money.pl/gospodarka/w-tym-miescie-nie-martwia-si... Shortly: insulation, new windows, solar panels, heat pumps (heating + warm water). They do not show "before" photos, but I found some similar building before renovation on the same street: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3586963,21.5793371,3a,75y,161.66h,106.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB3p7Py82-iwYfTAYyXkZ-g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3586963,21.5793371,3a,75y,16... They mention 90% savings in heating costs, which apparently pays off the debt they had to take to make the upgrades.
- carabiner 4y agoI'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge place full of issues and corner cutting. Can I just throw more money at the problem so that I'm less stressed and offload more decisions to the builders?
- kilburn 4y agoWe tried this approach and ended up with the same kind and amount of problems that everyone else plus a mark-up on the price. Our conclusion was that you absolutely must be on top of things or you'll end up disappointed.
- carabiner 4y agoOk, I figured. Yeah honestly some of the new homeowner subreddits make me glad to be in an apartment. Apartment isn't perfect but it basically works and I never have to think about maintenance, vs. some noobs where it becomes 5-10 hours of work per week.
- chubs 4y agoI've done this twice by hiring a family friend as the builder once, and hiring a one-man builder another time, both times it worked out for me, was mostly headache-free, they both had excellent worksmanship. I built with a big company once and it was a nightmare. There are always headaches though, you need to expect them so you don't go crazy when it inevitably arrives. Good luck! :)
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- galenko 4y agoNo. That’s still a lottery and you are basically saying I’m paying more, so I expect a better service. This does not guarantee results. At all. What you want is a third party. Someone who understands the trade and the codes and will check in on the building site daily and will make sure everything is being done correctly. And if it’s not, will stop work and put everyone in their place. I frankly have no idea what the term for that is in America, but we call them freelance foremen where I’m from. Current going rate per month is roughly 1.5x minimum wage in my country. May sound like a lot of money for someone just doing checking, but that’s only until you find out how expensive lack of oversight can be. Ask around, many building companies offer these services, so company a builds the house, and an inspector from unrelated company b does the daily inspection. But ideally you’d find a one man band man, who’s really gonna be on your side.
- 1270018080 4y agoWho is the target audience for this book? Not people who want to get build their own custom home one day?
- constGard 4y agoIt seems like a series of guiding concepts and examples for builders or clients. Custom home building seems to be the main venue for this at the moment, but a layperson like myself can use this to try and recognize a good house or think about how I might retrofit my own. It's all too expensive at the moment where I live, but I can dream and save my pennies.
- KRAKRISMOTT 4y agoThis is one of the areas that ML robotics companies should look into. Prefabs for whatever reason do not seem to work for the American market. Enough is enough, time to start throwing ML robotics models at zoning and building code regulations, instead of those silly game environments that DeepMind use for their RL demos. Replace those overpriced and incompetent tradespeople and builders. They do not have enough real competition and the work quality suffer. Since importing labor from mexico is politically unpopular, use robotics instead. It plays well with both sides of the aisle. Time for the blue collar workforce to experience disruption.
- smashed 4y agoOnly on hacker news would you see a comment like that.
- mansoon 4y agoJesus fucking christ and I thought I was a narcissist who was spoiled by my social class. Thank you kind stranger for showing me what real indifference and ignorance looks like.
- alexb_ 4y agoI refuse to believe this comment is anything but a troll.
- 8bitsrule 4y agoTime to throw in a mention for the homes of Lloyd Kahn. https://www.shelterpub.com/ https://www.shelterpub.com/ There's plenty to discuss about houses (if you've got time on your hands), but give me a pretty good home. Green? Where I grew up you could drive around in the woods and see old abandoned log houses turning back into land and a few rocks, all on their own. A worthy goal to work towards. Lloyd's still kicking and blogging. https://www.lloydkahn.com/ https://www.lloydkahn.com/
- trgn 4y agoHe's great. Sidetracking a little, I wish someone(s) could develop a complementary vision for the urban context. This escape to the woods ethos does not scale. Yet, it's the only one that - at least in my impression - has crystalized in some truly homely aspirational bitesize aesthetics, that seems in reach, if only one would just commit. The closest thing I can think of was maybe "the loft", you know, think 80s cool. But they kinda suck in hindsight. The townhouse maybe, but so dependent on if the actual surroundings are tolerable, a little too large to have broad demographic appeal. Maybe the shotgun. They definitely have that cutesy thing going. Can be spacious, small, simple layouts, lot's of room for craftmanship... Just spitballing now.
- georgeoliver 4y agoIt's happening with DADUs (detached living units), with one critical issue -- they're way too expensive for the average person. I'm curious what the distribution of DADUs are nationwide with respect to cost of living.
- trgn 4y agoActually really true. They do seem to have a ton of momentum. Can really capture the imagination if well done.
- poutine 4y agoSome good, basic guidelines here. However a lot is going to depend on your local market and what the trades are familiar with. In smaller markets trying to push exotic techniques, technology or materials is going to be a recipe for suffering. The trades will not do a good job and/or you'll pay a crap ton for it.
- alanwreath 4y agoLove this new resource. I've been geeking out over what seems to be some near term changes on what it means to build a home. For the longest time it seemed to mean (in the US at least): - wood - waste - lifelong high expense - manual and with the sudden explosion of - 3D printed houses (https://communityimpact.com/austin/georgetown/housing-real-estate/2022/11/17/3d-printed-homes-in-georgetown-offer-new-approach-to-building-communities/)(https://www.3dwasp.com/en/3d-printer-house-crane-wasp/) - revival of the modular home (really to many to list https://www.dwell.com/article/prefab-homes-austin-texas-f734ce25) - prevalent home centered tech - open source communities (https://www.opensourceecology.org) - remote work - decreasing solar cost - increasing last mile internet access I wonder how what will change in how we perceive the value of a home. If I had a lot of money I think I'd just buy a lot of land and see what sticks.
- langsoul-com 4y agoIn Australia, homes tend to be more an investment. The home part just needs to be good enough, the land is the real value. A shit rundown place can be worth millions, just because of the land. The house itself gets knocked down for an apartment complex.
- masklinn 4y agoThe US is the same, except for the part where you replace the house by an apartment complex because US zoning is fucked.
- hiAndrewQuinn 4y agoIt's the same everywhere that doesn't implement a robust land tax. Which is to say, everywhere.
- masklinn 4y agoNonsense. In most of the world you can tear down a bunch of houses, merge the parcels, and build an apartment building. It might require permitting, but zoning is not an issue, because outside the US zoning tends to be based on activity nuisance levels. In the US however zoning tends to be exclusive and a lot more specific, so you can (and cities do) zone large areas as single-family residential meaning you can not replace single family houses by MUAs without rezoning the area, a much more complicated, expensive, and lengthy proposition. Not to mention US-style exclusive zoning also by definition precludes mixed-use developments.
- elitistphoenix 4y agohttps://www.prettygoodhouse.org/climate https://www.prettygoodhouse.org/climate Seems North America only
- simonebrunozzi 4y agoBrilliant work! I am starting a complex renovation project in Venice, Italy. I wish there were a knowledgeable local PGH chapter here to help me out.
- bjarneh 4y ago> Even the best windows and doors on the market perform much worse than even an average wall New windows here in Norway are often triple or quadruple glazed, and they have a pretty good R-value; so they are not that much worse than average walls at least.
- uggwar 4y agoWe just refurbished our house here in Norway. New windows and 10 cm extra insulation. I am shocked how well the windows perform! Ice on the outside, but nice and warm on the inside. Amazing!
- bjarneh 4y agoIt's a different world. The amount of "fyring" (burning wood on the stove) we had to do before we did the renovation of the house was nuts. Also the "vindsperre" works pretty well.
- hansjorg 4y agoIt's a bit annoying with new windows that they perform so well that you'll get dew or ice on the outside a lot of the time. Supposedly, windows with an outer self cleaning layer get less condensation, but they're quite expensive.
- vanderZwan 4y agoI expect I would consider that charming, but I can imagine it gets annoying after the first week
- geewee 4y agoMy windows do that - I still think it's pretty fun even after some time.
- interactivecode 4y agoBetter than the dew and ice of the inside like with single pane windows!
- duckmysick 4y agoI'm curious about rain screens. One of the pages says "Perhaps the single most important thing you can do for your walls is to include a rain screen, which is like venting for your walls." How does that work exactly? Here's how I understand it: I would have to cover an entire building with some sort of a skeleton (layer) of wood, with an air gap in between. And it will cause the rain drops to slide down to the ground instead of the wall absorbing it. Sounds expensive. Am I missing something? Around here (mostly concrete or brick buildings with a thick exterior polystyrene insulation) water-repellent acrylic or silicone renders are more popular. Example: https://isomat.co.uk/product/marmocryl-silicone-decor-2-en/ https://isomat.co.uk/product/marmocryl-silicone-decor-2-en/ I guess using both would be overkill. Not to mention attaching a rain screen with the outer layer of polystyrene would be more difficult.
- Dylanfm 4y agoI think the exterior insulation is kind of taking the place of the cladding or rain screen here. I suspect it also as an air gap. But I suppose you could affix a rain screen to it, although I am not sure if that's worthwhile. There's some more info here: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Rainscreen https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Rainscreen I hear the term "rain screen" fairly often to describe open cladding styles. Scroll down to "timber cladding profiles" and then "open cladding": https://www.thousandhuts.org/walls https://www.thousandhuts.org/walls Rather than a more closed timber cladding, like shiplap or board-on-board, there would be a gap, maybe 8mm between the cladding boards. Rain can get in, but with an effective membrane beneath, it's waterproof. And there's always ventilation, so it dries out more quickly. If the wall is built for it, the membrane should be vapor permeable and allow the building to "breath". I'm not sure if this is as appropriate for your local buildings if they have exterior polystyrene etc. Where I am in northern Scotland many of the buildings from the past several decades are timber frame inside + cavity + a wall of concrete blocks. Those concrete blocks are basically the cladding. They have the same renders as you linked on them. While a lot of people are skipping the blockwork and just cladding the building with timber or metal instead.
- throw0101c 4y ago> How does that work exactly? Here's how I understand it: I would have to cover an entire building with some sort of a skeleton (layer) of wood, with an air gap in between. And it will cause the rain drops to slide down to the ground instead of the wall absorbing it. You have external cladding to protect against bulk water, UV; it is generally metal siding, brick, stucco. You then have a >5mm air gap between that cladding and the next layer of your building: * https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-the-perfect-wall https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-t... This is because moisture will either get through the cladding, or the cladding itself will absorb water (brick, stucco), and needs a way to dry. You don't need a lot of space behind the clapping, but you need something: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainscreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainscreen * https://www.dupont.com/products/tyvek-drainvent-rainscreen.html https://www.dupont.com/products/tyvek-drainvent-rainscreen.h...
- RektBoy 4y agoFrom wood? Good one Americans, really good one, ha.
- Y-bar 4y agoAren't most single- or few-family homes made of wood? I'm living in in the farming belt (i.e. not the actual forested parts of our country) and over 80% of these houses are wooden. It's mostly apartment buildings over three floors being built using cement.
- michpoch 4y agoNot in Europe, besides some old mountains huts. It's always a very strange feeling when I see how in the american home-reconstruction TV shows they're tearing the walls and it's all wood. Same case when I see the effects of hurricanes... it all feels very fragile comparing to what we have here.
- Y-bar 4y agoBut I do live in Europe... On the flatlands... Stone houses are in clear minority here. According to our national agency 90% of all single family homes built in 2020 was with a wooden frame/core and about 5% masonry.
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- fsdjfkaadsfhsd 4y agoImagine this resource but you can make changes, like a git repo
- Ensorceled 4y agoI like this, but ROI should never be part of the calculation for home building, it's why we have so much homelessness in the first place.
- nine_k 4y agoROI should absolutely be a part of calculation, else it would be easy to spend (even) more money on a home that's not desirable or enjoyable. The return is just not limited to money only. You likely want to get most house for your money, by various metrics. I don't think that homelessness has much to do with construction costs: homeless people are usually not those who have $70k lying around which is not sufficient even as an initial downpayment for a home. The lack of housing is real, but it's more about regulations which forbid to build "cramped", "ugly" houses or "slums", or anything at all near elite houses which may not go down in "value".
- Ensorceled 4y ago> ROI should absolutely be a part of calculation, else it would be easy to spend (even) more money on a home that's not desirable or enjoyable. ROI is being used in it's economics section, literally as return on investment. > I don't think that homelessness has much to do with construction costs No, but it does have to do with ROI, which you hand waved away above by redefining ROI to be non-financial rewards such as enjoyment. Housing as an investment has put housing out of reach of a increasing percentage of homeowners and raised rental rates. The least expensive rentals in my city are out of reach for those making minimum wage in my city.
- adamhp 4y ago"Investment" in this context is personal investment as a primary residence. You seem to be purposefully missing the point or cherry picking a singular definition of the word. The OP is literally a book about how to build a good home for yourself that is affordable. I'm fairly certain 90% of the audience on HN understand the housing crisis that exists and no one here is arguing for more rent-seeking with this book.
- kleiba 4y agoMy wife and I have entertained the idea of a bigger house for quite some time. Well, that boat has sailed. Building has pretty much become unaffordable for us, unless we'd move way out to the country side. And I mean WAY out - we would spend a lot more time every day driving everywhere). We'd also have to build a rather modestly-sized home to fit it into our budget. The thing is, the only reason we've started thinking about a new house in the first place is that - with a growing family - our current home is starting to feel a bit tight. The only alternative would be to buy an older house and renovate it. That would possibly keep us in the general area, but financially it wouldn't be viable either. Houses here are usually priced so that if you were to get them to a modern standard, you would end up having spent the same amount of money as if you built a completely new home. Except that the old one will be, at its core, still an old house.
- Scoundreller 4y ago> Except that the old one will be, at its core, still an old house Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I like the idea of the core of my house being true 2x4s made of hardwood, instead of scam “2x4s” where they say it’s because of their sawblades but I’d say it’s because the mills squeeze too many “2x4s” out of a log.
- 93po 4y agoNo one uses hardwood 2x4 for framing houses. If they did it'd add, at minimum, six figures to your home cost with effectively no benefit. You can absolutely choose between grades of 2x4, however, and if you're working with a builder you can specify with them.
- Scoundreller 4y ago> No one uses hardwood 2x4 for framing houses Not anymore, but we used to. Lumber was whatever trees were nearby. And cut to the size they were actually sold as.
- peteradio 4y ago
- heywire 4y agoIf building science is fascinating to you, check out Matt Risinger and The Build Show.
- mderazon 4y agoI don't like that channel so much to be honest. The production value is good but it is filled with product endorsements and shiny new high-tech products
- dkarl 4y agoI agree about the product endorsements, but I think the show is engaging and can be eye-opening for someone who is about to have a house built and doesn't realize how much scope there is for mistakes, for people to cut corners or accidentally get little details wrong. Something like installing a waterproofing system is complicated enough that it's very easy for subs to make mistakes, and you need the contractor to understand the system, monitor the work, and call out mistakes and get them corrected. I know the reason he's showing people this is because he wants them to see value in paying him a big premium over the lowest bidder, but it's true and useful information. Also, on a personal level, I find his enthusiasm for quality to be infectious, and it puts me in a mood to write good software.
- adamgordonbell 4y ago> Local is good. While we can get materials from nearly anywhere on earth, buying locally typically keeps the carbon footprint smaller. Is this true? Shipping things from where its more efficient to produce them I thought was better? The scale of ships and shipping containers means the carbon involved per item is pretty small.
- willis936 4y agoWhat are the economies of scale involved with a tree farm or gravel pit? These are building raw materials. The amount of processing needed is minimal.
- adamgordonbell 4y agoIt's not about scale, but about the efficiency of growing. Trees, for instance, don't grow well in areas with little soil. Or for extreme example they don't grow at all in places that are cold enough. So shipping them in from places where they do make more sense then attempting to grow them locally. I mean I'm sure there are scale advantages in gravel quarries and logging mills, but I'm not certain how much that matters. The example I always heard about growing locally was tomatoes. Tomatoes grown in Canada, in greenhouse – and eaten in Canada – have a larger carbon impact than importing Tomatoes from Brazil where they grow without a heated greenhouse. Trees are obviously able to grow in lots more places, but that doesn't mean they grow equally well everywhere I'm guessing. I'm not an expert but the carbon cost of moving things around the world is often quite small comparatively.
- the_gastropod 4y agoIn areas without trees it’s common to build homes with rammed earth, bricks, cob, or other building materials. The PGH book is mostly focused on a north eastern US perspective, where trees are plentiful.
- stefantalpalaru 4y ago[dead]
- alfor 4y agoIs there open source plans? It seem to me that we could have open source full plans for a few models of cost effective houses. Then builders and prefab manufacturers could bid on the price and selection of parts to build it. The houses I see builded here are terribly inefficient. Complex shape and roof lines with a lot of unused space. They are made to look like an old house that was upgraded multiple time instead of being one large rectangle or square with simple roof. Furthermore the ratio of exterior walls to inside space is far from optimum, resulting in larger material and heating cost than necessary.
- aaronax 4y agoIn the US I believe these complex shapes are one way of making a large house have a less bulky appearance. An enormous box can be ungainly.
- thebiss 4y agoCorrect. Architects call the perception of size from shape the massing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massing And if you hate McMansions, you'll love: https://mcmansionhell.com/ https://mcmansionhell.com/
- Gravityloss 4y agoHere double pane has been the standard for about a century and triple pane after the eighties. No problems whatsoever. I don't even know what's the standard nowadays. Newer windows also quiet down traffic well and reduce the drafty feeling. So there are really very few excuses to not use them. But I don't know what's the name of the phenomenon when someone who uses some primitive technology comes out with all kinds of esoteric reasons why they would not like to use these. Can't use an electric car. Can't use fluorescent or led lights. Can't use a heat pump. Can't use induction stoves. Can't put insulation into walls. Can't use double or triple or quadruple pane windows. "Does light really come through a multiple pane window". Yes it does.
- dkarl 4y agoI don't know what to call it on the consumer end, but on the builder side, it's often just laziness and greed. If they don't know how to work with a material, then it sucks. If it's hard to hire subs that know how to build something, then it doesn't meet code and won't pass inspection. If they misbid it, it will never work and needs to be redesigned. In short, building contractors are a lot like software developers. There are some who keep up with the new materials and building systems and are excited to see new design techniques, and there are others who feel a sense of personal grievance that what they learned before they were thirty won't carry them all the way to retirement.
- Gravityloss 4y agoIf energy was predictably more expensive, that would be one way to sort it out. You wouldn't buy a house or an apartment without analyzing living costs. Contractors would suddenly get very interested in building more energy efficient housing. I've also heard that in Russia, pensioners get a free amount of energy per month. That leads to a lot of wastage. For example if the pensions could be in cash, then the person would be motivated to save energy. You do need cultural change too though. One way is to just demand visibility, not make any demands on actions. We have a published "energy class" for apartments and houses here. Our current apartment is class F or so - so we know our living cost is more sensitive to district heat prices than a class B apartment would be (those are newer and have in general higher purchase price).