11 ms·
Canadians are now stealing overpriced food from grocery stores with zero remorse
- amalgamated_inc 4y agoWe will be welcomed as liberators.
- PraetorianGourd 4y agoIf you can afford to buy food, but decide to shoplift instead as a moral stance, you are hurting the poor. The stores will raise prices to cover the loss and the poor can’t gamble on a $2,000 fine. You can argue that stores ought not raise the prices, you can argue that the law ought to not consider shoplifting a crime, but neither of those conditions are the case, so your moral stance ends up being a material cost to the very people you claim to be fighting for.
- CompuHacker 4y agoIt'd be cool if you could partially pay for something without the consent of the store, but without having to stand in front of a person and say "I'm stealing this; would you help me with the math?"
- toast0 4y ago> "Galen Weston and his family are thieves who have profiteered for decades, and if you think it's wrong to steal food (product insured for loss) in order to survive... you're a clown," wrote one Twitter user of the trend this week. And they're bringing out the old 'insured' line, as if insurance premiums don't come out of the price everyone else is paying. And, furthermore, I don't really think stores are insured for or would file claims for 'regular' shoplifting; it doesn't make sense to buy insurance for events that are occuring continuously and causing relatively small losses; insure for looting/riots, yes, that's a large loss and low probability (hopefully).
- knodi 4y agoI feel for these people but I’m not sure I agree with the show afterwards on social media.
- sp332 4y agoProtests are more efrective when people know they're happening.
- jollofricepeas 4y agoNew Yorkers have been stealing Haagen-Daz and Slim Jim’s with zero remorse for years. I was blown away the first time that I visited a Duane Reade on a gentrified Korea town block and saw the locked freezers and anti-theft devices.
- voisin 4y agoThe difference I think is that neither of the things you mentioned are essential inputs to a nutritious diet. Seems less defensible to be stealing non-essentials.
- threads2 4y agoI think the reasoning goes they're small and high-calorie.
- itronitron 4y agoInterestingly, in one of Eric Bogosian's routines from 'Pounding Nails in the Floor with my Forehead' one of his characters specifically calls out eating Haagen Daz and Slim Jims.
- jollofricepeas 4y agoThe poor live in food deserts, they don’t have nutritious food. They get their food from McDonalds, Dollar General and Taco Bell. https://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts https://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts
- janalsncm 4y agoI can’t say I wasn’t a little bit incensed to see the bag of Tyson’s frozen chicken I usually buy for around $8-10 being sold for $15. Stealing it wouldn’t solve the problem (probably would have the opposite effect) in the long term but something needs to be done about skyrocketing food prices.
- JimtheCoder 4y agoRelevant: Why are Toronto grocery stores selling some chicken breasts for nearly $27/kg? [1] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/why-are-toronto-grocery-stores-selling-some-chicken-breasts-for-nearly-27-kg-1.6218119 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/why-are-toronto-grocery-stores-se...
- toast0 4y ago> something needs to be done about skyrocketing food prices. Ending the war in Ukraine might help. The disruption in direct food production as well as fertilizer production has a big impact on food prices worldwide; even if your locale doesn't source directly from Ukraine. Otherwise, there's the usual options: choose less expensive altnernatives, where available. Grow your own, if economical. Forage, if possible.
- janalsncm 4y ago> Grow your own, if economical. Forage, if possible. Tyson is definitely aware that for chicken, these are non-options.
- hirundo 4y agoA large fraction of Canadians lives where it's legal and practical to grow chickens. Rabbits are even easier.
- Scoundreller 4y agoIunno, anywhere urban/suburban with rules "authorizing" it seems to make it so impractical that it's easier to continue buying torture chickens and eggs from the grocery store.
- benj111 4y ago>With the average family of four expected to spend more than $16,000 on groceries this year That's £700 a month? That seems high, especially as there's presumably someone spending £1400pm to balance out the family that's stealing everything. I thought food in North America was cheap, at least compared to Europe.
- bryanrasmussen 4y agoI think it's more likely everybody is spending +.25pm to balance out the family that's stealing everything.
- voisin 4y agoWe pay $140-$160/week with no animal products. Family of four but two young kids don’t eat as much as teenagers or adults so maybe effectively a family of 2.5 or 3. Animal products would likely double this weekly spend and older kids would probably double it again.
- benj111 4y agoI don't think meat would double it. But yes teenagers eat more than young kids, but there are economies of scale. My weekly shop is dominated by alcohol, and I'm a meat eater and I struggle to spend that much.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y agoThis seems high even compared to Australian standards. Per person per week is 77CAD (16k/4/52=77). I spend half that in Sydney. Edit: someone mentioned much saner prices as non meat eaters. I eat meat, but much less than most.
- jldugger 4y ago> That seems high Its about on track with the US. In 2021, the US average expenditure for a family of four was 11,908 [1]. Converting USD into CAD yields... 15,938.56. And to add to the anecdote, I spent about 4,000 on food in 2022 just for myself, so that tracks personally at least. This is all food, including dining. Dining prices are dominated by labor costs. But even raw food is currently challenging, with the war in Ukraine cutting off wheat growing and fertilizer production, and bird flu cutting supply of chicken and eggs. [1] https://www.bls.gov/cex/tables/calendar-year/mean-item-share-average-standard-error/cu-size-2021.pdf https://www.bls.gov/cex/tables/calendar-year/mean-item-share...
- reboot81 4y agoTo make this dilemma even more complex, see Black Market:Lifted in London https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/video/lifted-in-london/5786ae0915cdb58549c42e4c https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/video/lifted-in-london/5786ae09...
- gotoeleven 4y ago[flagged]
- yunohn 4y ago[flagged]
- gotoeleven 4y ago[flagged]
- 1270018080 4y agoPeople stealing raises prices. Corporations price gouging for no reason raises prices. Under capitalism, shouldn't there be new grocery stores coming in to undercut existing ones? Why isn't that happening? Seems like the only solution. We definitely don't want "rent controls" on food prices, I'd like to avoid mass famine.
- throw_m239339 4y ago> Under capitalism, shouldn't there be new grocery stores coming in to undercut existing ones? Under capitalism, why would anybody want to open a grocery store wherever people steal massively?
- 1270018080 4y agoThe key point I am making, and what the article seems to imply, is that people would steal less if food was more affordable. And corporations are still raking in record profits so there is still a surplus.
- ohCh6zos 4y agoAnything that reduces societal trust raises prices. Security guards and anti-theft systems have costs.
- sp332 4y agoBarriers to entry are quite high right now. Property prices are up, transportation costs are just coming down lately, wages are up on average. When costs went up, the ones most willing to raise prices were able to build capital and buy out the rest.
- buro9 4y agohttps://todon.eu/@waldenecovillage/109687604490531094 https://todon.eu/@waldenecovillage/109687604490531094 Why are ethics questions always like: "is it ethical to steal bread to feed your starving family?" And not: "is it ethical to sell bread when families are starving?"
- AlgorithmicTime 4y ago[dead]
- thebrianmcgee 4y agoAnd how do you plan to make this bread? How do you plan bread makers to buy other things?
- JimtheCoder 4y ago"And not: "is it ethical to sell bread when families are starving?"" Is it the bread sellers problem that families are starving, though?
- joshlemer 4y agoThis is a highly unproductive attitude and outlook to have. It is precisely when families are starving that you want to encourage more people to produce and sell bread, and for people who are consuming more bread than they need to, to be as economical/non-wasteful in their consumption as possible. That is, people using bread for unnecessary uses like to feed birds, or who don't eat all their bread before it goes bad, should buy less bread so that it is available for others who have greater use of it (eating every slice, because they're hungry). The only workable way to do this is through the price mechanism. Raising prices incentivizes people to consume less bread, so the marginal bread consumer (bird feeders, etc) consume less, and it incents marginal producers to produce more bread. Vilifying the making of profit of scarce goods like bread during a famine is exactly the wrong idea, and only makes the problem worse. We _want_ people to be able to make a profit by helping others. If as a society we shame people for selling bread when there are hungry people, ironically there will be less bread sellers and prices will go up. The way to alleviate food insecurity is to promote more competition among food producers/retailers, and to allow price signals to work their magic. Of course, combined with a reasonable redistribution scheme to provide a baseline level of income to people.
- boomboomsubban 4y agoThis article doesn't seem to say anything about people stealing more groceries, and is instead about some ongoing twitter argument.
- mynegation 4y agoBlogto perfected the art of a clickbaity headline. Just check out their other article titles and you will see.
- voisin 4y ago> "Galen Weston and his family are thieves who have profiteered for decades The answer isn’t theft. It is to join a co-operative and get a share of the profits back.
- throw_m239339 4y ago(Most) poor people don't trust one another to begin with. Some ethnic communities do in fact have an array of services that are provided inside the community, like loans and food banks and so they can negotiate directly with producers in bulk. That's how these communities thrives where ever they live. In some communities, someone who wants to buy a house or a business isn't going to ask for a loan at a regular bank. Co-operatives do work but often legislators are making it extremely hard for people to organize, because of the regulatory capture that favor their wealthy allies.
- voisin 4y agoQuebec seems to be pretty fertile for co-ops across many industries. Not sure why it hasn’t spread more elsewhere in Canada.
- ivan_gammel 4y agoThis rises a lot of questions. 1. Which corporation reported record profits exactly? If that is not a grocery store chain, then it is hurting wrong business. 2. If there were any unjustified increases within the country, how did anti-trust regulator react? If price increase results in bigger profits, i.e. unjustified by increasing costs in the supply chain, it is anti-trust case and government must react. Why not demanding this action? 3. If price increase was due to increasing costs, then it is fair and there is no moral ground in stealing anyway. Instead the government should intervene and subsidize some markets to protect population from inflation shock. Why not demanding this action? My point is, there exist lawful mechanisms to mitigate the negative economic effects of the current situation in the world. They must be activated by a responsible government. Theft is never a solution to anything.
- AlgorithmicTime 4y ago[dead]
- voisin 4y ago> how did anti-trust regulator react In Canada, our anti-trust regulator is completely feckless and captured by industry.
- ivan_gammel 4y agoTime for voters to wake up.
- voisin 4y agoSounds good, but what should they do once woken up? Vote PC? NDP/Liberal alliance? Bloc? There is literally no one that wouldn’t ultimately bow to corporate interests (source: our entire history). We don’t have Bernie Sanders or AOC equivalents.
- Scoundreller 4y agoAnd Canada never had a revolution, so the core theme of its laws are still rooted in how to keep some wealthy family's do-nothing ancestors wealthy without doing anything useful.
- tptacek 4y agoNot for nothing, but there does seem to be something weird going on with Canada. There's a popular argument in left US politics that "inflation" is a canard, and what we're really seeing is collusive price fixing by big corporations. But you can just look at the data to puncture that argument: corporate profits have, excepting a blip in the middle of the pandemic, tracked GDP (they're at "all time highs" because everything else is too). But profits as a percentage of GDP seem to be markedly higher in Canada than here.
- mynegation 4y ago“Something weird” is the fact that oligopolies are ruling Canada and there is way less competition than in US. Telecom is the most egregious example but grocery chains are a good example too.
- joshlemer 4y agoBut haven't cell phone prices been going down considerably in the last few years? I remember 10 years ago you'd pay like $100 for a 5GB plan, seems that now you get that for like $50-$60
- halostatue 4y agoThey are lower, but they are certainly not low, and are still the highest in the G20, IIRC. It’s embarrassing, and the sale of Shaw to Rogers is only going to make things worse.
- Scoundreller 4y agoWho cares if it goes from $20/gb to $10/gb when elsewhere in the world went from 13 cents to 12 cents/gb. We need some 95-99% reductions in pricing. 50% doesn't cut it.
- dmix 4y agoI recently got into mixology and I've grown to despise the alcohol monopoly(s) in Canada. Paying 20-25% more per bottle than Americans is something you get used to but it repeatedly sucks to watch bartending youtube or read books and not being able to make something because it's not sold in Ontario. Quebec is slightly better (the french know how to drink) - but even there if you want to buy Yellow Chartreuse, which is in a ton of cocktails, you need to basically own a bar + a liquor license to get access to the full inventory. There's a million small details that make living in America easier (and way cheaper). Especially when you're into any niche hobby. /rant
- perfecthjrjth 4y agoAll stores should just lock down all items, and have customers ask what they want and bring them to the front. That's how stores are run in the third-world.
- JimtheCoder 4y agoIsn't this how stores used to be run anyways? Give the list to the grocer, he get's your food ready, etc?
- snordgren 4y agoI've been wondering how much value could be generated if people could order their regular purchases months ahead of time. I am absolutely going to need to buy pasta three months from now. Why can't I purchase my pasta now and save the grocery store the effort of stocking the shelf just for me to pick it up? Long-term preordering could probably save labor and make demand forecasts more accurate. Just a thought.
- Scoundreller 4y agoYeah, a lot of stuff is seasonal, so there should be a deal to buy a hundred pounds of carrots in October vs April. Certainly the retailer pays differing prices or runs its own cold storage warehouse at a cost. I don't understand why Canadian and US prices are so sticky. In Europe, a frozen pepperoni pizza might cost you 3,78 EUR and the vegetarian will cost you 12 centimes less because the retailer passes on their differing costs. Meanwhile in Canada/USA, I'll take the 3-meat because it's the same price.
- gruez 4y ago>I don't understand why Canadian and US prices are so sticky. In Europe, a frozen pepperoni pizza might cost you 3,78 EUR and the vegetarian will cost you 12 centimes less because the retailer passes on their differing costs. >Meanwhile in Canada/USA, I'll take the 3-meat because it's the same price. Be careful, even though they're the same "price", the net weights are different so they're not actually the same price.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tommywg7 4y ago30-40% of food in the U.S. is thrown out (43% of that at the household level, 40% at restaurant & grocery store level). The dissonance between this percent, 34 million food insecure Americans, and record high grocery prices is unreal. We need a serious change in both consumer behavior and grocery store & restaurant logistics/policy.
- Scoundreller 4y agoThere's that, and ~75% of corn and grain grown is used for feed and ethanol.
- nradov 4y agoWhat do you count as thrown out? When I cut the hard stalks off of broccoli that makes up a significant percentage of the food by weight. But they aren't really edible anyway. If I lived on a farm then I would feed all the food waste to pigs, then eat the pigs to achieve near zero food waste. Just like my uncle used to do. But I live in a suburb and my neighbors don't appreciate pigs (or compost piles). So anything we can't eat goes in the garbage.
- sixstringtheory 4y agoI will save a gallon ziplock worth of broccoli stems in the freezer (dice before freezing) and then turn them all into broccoli cheddar soup when the bag fills up. I’ll buy one crown of fresh broccoli to get some florets into it.
- jhanschoo 4y agoBroccoli stalks are perfectly edible and nutritious, they just aren't conventionally used in many dishes. I sometimes make hot pot where I include the stem as well. Another cultivar of the same vegetable becomes the kohlrabi, where the stem especially is used.
- tommywg7 4y agoI started composting last year and combined with bottle return (takes 5 mins once a month at the grocery store) it's amazing how much waste and recycling I've been able to reduce. My next goal is all but eliminating my plastic use, through refill stores, laundry sheets (not pods!) and the like. It's not actually that hard to reduce our individual impact, just requires unlearning some wasteful habits
- TMWNN 4y agoWhy Canadians pay much more and have access to less than Americans despite living in a country that is 95% culturally, economically, and politically identical to the US, I do not know. I didn't fully understand the disparity until I read the amazing stories in a /r/canada discussion. victorn72's account <http://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1ueai3/why_are_our_prices_so_much_higher_than_the_us/cehewa1?context=3 http://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1ueai3/why_are_our_pr...> caused my jaw to drop open.
- 0xbadc0de5 4y agoEconomies of scale likely plays a large role. Canada is a very large country (2nd largest by area) and very sparsely populated (same population as California). It simply costs more per unit to distribute food over such a vast area. The Northern climate and distance from growers also limits the availability of certain foods.
- Tade0 4y agoI couple of years ago I met a freegan and even had some of the stuff she found - the most risky item was a dented, but otherwise fresh pineapple. Stores throw away so much still edible stuff that I find it hard to believe that shoplifting makes much of a difference. There seems to be not enough pressure to keep prices low, which doesn't bode well. On an unrelated note: I wonder how is this going to affect obesity levels?
- smnrchrds 4y agoThe two biggest grocery retailers in Canada have below 5% profit margins: Loblaw's profit margin is less than 4% [1] and Empire ~2.5% [2]. The other smaller ones are in the same ballpark. Put it another way, if grocery stores reduce all prices by 4%, they will be operating at a loss. Prices have jumped, but I am inclined to believe it is due to fundamental market forces (Ukraine war, avian flu, energy crisis, etc.) and not the retailer, who just happens to be the only part people can see and direct their anger at. [1] https://ycharts.com/companies/L.TO/profit_margin https://ycharts.com/companies/L.TO/profit_margin [2] https://ycharts.com/companies/EMP.A.TO/profit_margin https://ycharts.com/companies/EMP.A.TO/profit_margin
- Scoundreller 4y agoThey both segmented all their real estate into REITs (Choice and Crombie), so a lot of the margin has been pushed there for tax reasons (and to keep the retail operations from tanking the capital, which I think will one day happen, but I'm anti-retail). But it's also true that prices jumped, but margins were unchanged, so they were making more money for the same work. In an efficient market, you'd expect margins to drop. (Unless it can all be explained by inflation of course and that extra money gets you as far as it used to).
- smnrchrds 4y ago> so a lot of the margin has been pushed there It doesn't seem to be the case. I am just gonna look at Loblaw/Choice, but I imagine the other would not be too different. Loblaw had a revenue of 55.25B and a net income of 2.12B [1], bringing the profit margin to 3.84% over the previous 12 months. Choice's revenue was 1.34B [2] over the same period. Even if the entire revenue was pure profit for Loblaw, it would bring Loblaw's profit margin to (2.12 + 1.34) / 55.25 = 6.3%. This seems higher, but still not remotely high enough to explain the price increases. But more importantly, Choice REIT's revenue has been fairly consistent over the past couple of years. There is no sudden increase in the past year or so to coincide with the price increases. So the extra price is NOT getting passed from Loblaw to Choice. Choice gets the same amount it was getting in 2019 more or less. Choice's total revenue has been 1.29B (2019), 1.27B (2020), 1.29B (2021), and 1.28B (past 12 months) [3]. Disclaimer: I am not well-versed in the field of finance, so I may have misunderstood the statistics. Please double-check them from the links below if you so prefer. I do not understand why the revenue in the statistics page is 1.34B, but total revenue in the financials page is 1.28B. But the difference is small enough not to change the conclusions either way. [1] https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/L.TO/key-statistics?p=L.TO https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/L.TO/key-statistics?p=L.T... [2] https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CHP-UN.TO/key-statistics?p=CHP-UN.TO https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CHP-UN.TO/key-statistics?... [3] https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CHP-UN.TO/financials?p=CHP-UN.TO https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CHP-UN.TO/financials?p=CH...
- II2II 4y agoI have been hearing about this for a number of months now, and it feels more like entitled people boasting than poor people trying to survive. It isn't really in the interest of either party to see shoplifting rise. Shoplifters only benefit when the grocery stores turn a blind eye and grocery stores are only willing to write off so much in losses due to their behaviour (e.g. until it is more profitable to pay for better security).
- joshlemer 4y agoLooks like mods have taken down this thread
- 0xbadc0de5 4y agoIt's wrong to steal. Canada has many food banks, charities and social programs to help people who genuinely need assistance. These people aren't stealing to feed their hungry child, they're stealing in protest of price inflation - which just exacerbates the inflationary pressure. It's misguided and should not be celebrated.
- drewcoo 4y agoIt's wrong to let people go hungry. Privatized, for-profit food will result in hungry people. This is not at all new. There will also be stories about welfare moms stealing candy bars to distract from the real issue because once people are angry about anything they stop being reasonable, take sides, and dig their heels in. Privatized, for-profit food will also result in price gouging for the less affluent. This is also not new. The current price bumps are being felt by the middle class, though, and that's a potential danger to the price-raisers. People often see it as ethical to beat up the bully (thus our entirely punitive prison system); parallel to that, they see it as ethical to steal from the thief.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Gunax 4y agoThe answer to expensive food is to eat cheaper food. You can easily eat on $2 per day. Those of us who grew up in poor countries know this. Even in rich countries, it was not long ago (like, in living memory) that meat was a specialty only afforded occasionally. One of the things about principaled stances is they are a lot more powerful when adhereing to the principal is inconvenient. My guess is there are always people stealing. They will use whatever post-hoc justification. If it wasnt the prices it would be corporations, or big-agri, or some provincial law.
- RickJWagner 4y ago[flagged]