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I spent a lot of time at the FAA writing software. (6+ years) there is a huge culture of process, policy and not a whole lot of thinking or analysis or actually

• grepfru_it 4y ago
  This is common for government agencies. I worked at Labor and your second paragraph hit very close to home. The only plus side was the insane amount of free time you spent waiting. I tried to go back on the civilian side of the contracts and I nope'd out of it as soon as I hit red tape
  • mobilefriendly 4y ago
    This is by design, it meets the primary goal of the government which is funding patronage jobs that make few, if any, demands on the worker.
    • __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
      People who want a job like that should just be on UBI instead. Then at least we'd have systems that could change to meet the needs of their users in a timely way.
      • sokoloff 4y ago
        UBI will never pay what a government job pays in purchasing power; that part is just math I think.
        • __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
          I don't think that is unreasonable to expect that government pay in a world where the government is a welfare program with a governing hobby might have less purchasing power than UBI in a world where we prioritize effective governance over beaurocracy. It's not a zero sum game.
          • sokoloff 4y ago
            There are just under 3 M federal (civilian) employees. I think it's entirely unreasonable to think that we would pay a UBI to ~210 M adult citizens (a 70x multiple) at levels that would represent a greater amount of purchasing power than to the people nominally working for the federal government. If you're firm in your view that that's reasonable, I'd like to learn more about the proposal as to how the math would work.
            • __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
              OK. I'm not going to code up a simulation because the research hasn't been done to confirm my choice of constants, but I can sketch it. Each workday is a function of the macroeconomic climate and some set of cultural norms during which we exhibit some blend of the following personae. As we'll see, introducing UBI reduces the prevalence of the bureaucrat persona which has knock-on effects leading to surplus. --- The Missionary - has a mission and is working towards it. Cares more about the mission than prestige. The Worker - doesn't have a plan, but likes to be a part of something meaningful. Will gamble with prestige in order to ensure that the work stays meaningful. The Bureaucrat - willing to tolerate or create waste in favor of preserving prestige. Sometimes manages to trick a worker into believing they're a missionary. --- Obviously people are more complex than this. Also, I'll use dollars to indicate productive output even though I think that most of the time collapsing such things to a single dimension is a slippery slope to somewhere awful. All this to say: gimme a break, it's model. Here are my totally made up constants, note that X is a parameter which will depend on UBI: --- Missionary creates 100$ of output always, plus a 1% daily chance to inspire a worker to become a missionary, a 1% chance to inspire a bureaucrat to become a worker, and a 1% chance to burn out and become a worker. Worker creates 80$ of output if they're following a missionary and -20$ if they're following a bureaucrat because it's likely that they're causing more harm than good. They have an X% chance of burning out and becoming a bureaucrat. A Bureaucrat creates -$20 of output, because they're definitely doing more harm than good. Now lets say that everybody consumes $5 each day to stay alive. --- So X is our worker burn-out rate. As with most systems of this kind, it's very sensitive to initial conditions. If you start with a high enough concentration of workers and missionaries, your bureaucrat rate will be very low and you'll have a surplus. Too many bureaucrats and most of your workers are doing more harm than good, the system is carried (if it survives at all) by the missionaries and the minority of workers following them. Critically, X is a function of risk tolerance. The worker becomes a bureaucrat because they cannot tolerate the risk of pointing out the wastefulness of the bureaucrat above them. Introducing UBI does two things. It makes standing up to your Bureaucrat less risky, reducing X, and it creates a fourth type, the Video Gamer, who consumes $5 to stay alive but doesn't sabotage the output of any workers like the bureaucrat does. Some percentage of the Bureaucrats will become Video Gamers if UBI is implemented. That percent depends on the size of the surplus. If the surplus gets big enough, UBI can be so comfortable that there's no reason to be a bureaucrat, because it doesn't afford a significant quality of life increase. --- So to answer your question about the 3M and the 210M, I'd guess that today we've got 213M people living on the positive output of maybe 50M--the rest are bureaucrats or are following bureaucrats. They're busy fighting over their slice of the pie instead of baking it. Bureaucrats sort of expand to consume available resources, so as automation improves worker output, that ratio will get worse unless we find a place to put them. We'd have to do research to come up with better constants and run that model for real to be sure, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that reducing both the bureaucrat concentration and the worker burnout rate by 50% would triple the system's output once you let the personae conventions find a new equilibrium. I'm not sure how much more federal employees will get paid above UBI, but I think there's room for the end result to be that future UBI is cushier than today's government work.
    • TomSwirly 4y ago
      [flagged]
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      • avidphantasm 4y ago
        Here here. Also, if there weren’t red tape, then there would be more corruption and lack of accountability. The staff of agencies are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If one wants to critique government agencies, criticize the political appointees who are in thrall to the industries they are supposed to be regulating. The rank and file generally work hard and in good faith. They are just trying to be good stewards of public resources. I’ve seen this at the federal level and state levels (primarily in North Carolina and Louisiana).
    • avidphantasm 4y ago
      All the federal employees I have met are EXCELLENT. It is very difficult to get hired into one of the dwindling jobs at the agencies. A lot of the government has been contracted out. Having worked at a federal IT contractor, I can say that in my experience most of those workers are very good and dedicated to their work. HOWEVER, they don’t always understand well the mission at hand. Some of this is to be expected given that they are contractors who come and go more frequently than federal employees charged with implementing government programs.
      • VLM 4y ago
        Ironically extreme selection pressure is exactly what leads to extreme risk aversion. "We only hire the absolute best" does not lead to "move fast and break things" (which sounds awful in a FAA context anyway) it leads to people who devoted their lives to being the absolute best at coloring inside the lines and never straying off the path, to being the best follower out there, to the ultimate authoritarians desiring to grow into being the authority. The heaviest selection pressure usually does not lead to the most efficient system, it generally leads to a system able to endure heavy selection pressure. There's a sociologist who wrote a famous book about bureaucracy and its in my library at home and the name of the sociologist and his book are at the tip of my tongue but he wasn't near the top of a quick google search; the above is a paraphrase of his book. No its not Douglas Adams or even Scott Adams although those two are correct about the problem in general LOL.
        • ssklash 4y ago
          David Graeber?
• MichaelZuo 4y ago
  It sounds like it would be very simple to implement correctly if it was literally spelled out like what your describing?
  • tominous 4y ago
    I just spent a month doing an E-Business Suite platform migration and it was very similar: follow the step-by-step instructions to apply patches and run commands. Each patch has a README file with dependent patches or commands which need to be completed first. It works mind-numbingly great until you run into the first of many circular dependencies. That's one problem with treating the implementer as a machine to run code. The whole procedure can't be tested, so when parts are changed they can break the whole. It relies on the human in the loop to resolve the conflicts, which is not repeatable. The other problem is the "mind-numbing" part. No-one can maintain 100% perfection all of the time. And in the context of presenting to people who don't know what it all means, I can see why mistakes would be made.
    • MichaelZuo 4y ago
      There can be multiple folks doing it in parallel and checking each other’s work, unless I’ve misunderstood? If problems of circularity arise they can try to clarify the issue, or go back to the drawing board.
  • jjk166 4y ago
    The problem is that spelling out complicated things is hard. Take the law for example - in theory we have a coherent code that specifies exactly what things are crimes and the appropriate methods of dealing with them. In practice, it takes teams of highly trained professionals and an elaborate system of courts to clarify what these laws mean in all but the most trivial cases. Generally you need some flexibility to handle slight variations in circumstance whenever making a decision, and at times things come down to judgement calls that can not be turned into an algorithm. But bureaucracies don't like empowering their workers to make decisions, and so you get ever more conoluted instructions to shift the decision making process higher up the ladder.
• metacritic12 4y ago
  Agencies like the FAA are notoriously risk adverse. Basically the motivations of most employees seems like, "if I mess up once, I get fired; if I don't produce any movement, I can't get fired". Naturally, the output is glacial progress and the introduction of tons of safety-theatre procedures (that get the implementers promotions for "increasing a culture of safety"). We all know this from the subject the FAA regulates: flights. New unleaded gas gets forever to approve. Simple changes to instruments takes years of certification, leaving 1960s technology in place when clear improvements have happened in the last 60 years. I always wondered what would happen if this culture were carried over to another space. We know what it looks like in medicine because the FDA has similar priorities. Rarely do we see it in tech, which is known to "move fast and break stuff". But here we get a glimpse of the dystopian crossover between FAA-procedure-culture and software engineering.
  • avar 4y ago
    We know what it's like in software because we have e.g. the example of how the Space Shuttle's flight control software was developed and audited. It's weeks of meetings, tests and change processes etc. obsessing over changing a single instruction in assembly. Which also suggests to me that the problem isn't per-se the glacial progress & approval processes, but that they're using the wrong glacial processes. If this FAA software was developed with something like the Space Shuttle's process it would still take forever to change something, but at least you'd end up with a function that you could mathematically prove would be able to handle any conceivable input. I think you're never going to convince the government of a "move fast" culture. Even if the overall cost of grounding planes would be less than the cost of more reliability they'd never go for it. Too many people's asses are on the line, and they're not having to spend their own money. The only thing they have to "pay" for is possible loss of face, or loss of political capital, both of which can be insured against effectively for free with taxpayer dollars. But you might just be able to convince them that they're using the wrong sort of bureaucracy. You'd still spend a billion or two on something that should cost a million, but at least you'd get actual reliability as a result.
    • metacritic12 4y ago
• themitigating 4y ago
  And you were a part of that culture ?
• nonethewiser 4y ago
  What produces this sort of environment? Is it basically a way for everyone to shed responsibility? I guess even that wouldnt answer it, since this isnt really a problem in private industry.
  • rprospero 4y ago
    In my experience, this arises as an unintended consequence of the quest to lower costs and reduce bureaucracy. About ten years ago, a new manager was brought in to make us act less like a moribund government department and behave more efficiently. As an example of government waste, he pointed to the money we were spending on storage for data back-ups. We wouldn't need back-ups if we stopped making mistakes. You might think that this no-back-ups policy would be an instant disaster, but it lasted years without issue. When there was a failure, the manager would hand the sys-admin a soldering iron, the admin would fix the hard drive, and we would be back on track. Finally, the sys-admin retired and a new one replaced him. Not long after, a critical system failed and data that we were required by law to maintain was lost. The manager handed the admin a soldering iron and told him to fix the hard drive. The admin said it was impossible and the manager fired him (yes, you can get fired from a government job). Other candidates were interviewed, but no one applying for a $30k job was confident that they could repair a broken hard drive. Finally, there was talking of hiring the old admin to come out of retirement and fix the drive. Except he explained that it had always been impossible. During his tenure, he'd spent 5% of his salary (gross, not net) paying for back-ups and replacement drives. When the manager gave him a soldering iron, he'd just chuck out the old drive, by a replacement off Newegg with his personal credit card, and load it with the data he'd backed up to his personal S3 storage. His back-up script was still running on the server, but he'd stopped paying for the storage space the moment he retired. Eventually, the manager was forced to spend a whole year's budget on an expensive data-retrieval firm to collect the data (which was still cost an order of magnitude less than the fine the department would have had to pay if we'd lost the data). He was fired and a new manager brought on board. Because of the money which had been lost on the data retrieval, new measures were put in place to prevent this from ever happening again. This included a new back-up system and audits to ensure that other employees were using personal funds to pay for departmental resources. Of course, this meant rigorously documenting exactly what resources each employee was using... Six years after the manager was brought in to decrease cost and increase agility, we were now more over budget and tightly controlled than we'd ever been.