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Native New Yorker here. Out of towners are obsessed with the BEST slice, but the true measure of NYC's 45 degree greatness is the decent quality following a Poi
by billiam 4y ago
Native New Yorker here. Out of towners are obsessed with the BEST slice, but the true measure of NYC's 45 degree greatness is the decent quality following a Poisson distribution. My tip: just travel to any random spot in the five boroughs. First; you will be impressed how close you are to a pizza spot wherever you are. Second: you will be impressed with the slice, and with the variety of people who are good at making it.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- LarryMullins 4y agoLike out-of-towners asking which cheese steak shop in Philly is the best. The best is whichever corner shop is closest to you. If you're local and eat cheese steaks often, you don't drive all the way across the city to get such a lunch. You walk one or two blocks whichever shop you're near. But visitors want to experience the best, not experience it as a local would.
- audiodude 4y agoDitto burritos in SF!
- colordrops 4y agoSan Diego as well...
- bluedays 4y agoThere’s definitely the best, and when I was local I would definitely go out of my way for a good cheesesteak. Just not every time.
- Larrikin 4y agoRandom cheesesteaks in Philly are far better than random cheesesteaks in any other city, but I would never recommend a tourist to go to a random spot over one of the highly rated places. You'll just feel it was good but over hyped. It's a waste of time for someone who is there temporarily and doesn't live in the city. If you go to a place like Joe's you'll understand why the food became famous in the first place and how much better cheesesteaks are in Philly.
- hahamrfunnyguy 4y agoI was in Philly a few years ago for a day trip and tried two different cheesesteaks. Both were fine, but they're not places I would ever seek out again. I've definitely had better delicious hot steak sandwiches with cheese and toppings in other places. Maybe I was expecting something different, or maybe you've got a point? Guess I'll have to get to Joe's if I am in Philly again!
- dfxm12 4y agoHonestly, Joe's is just a random place. If you're near there don't even bother with cheesesteaks. There's so many great places to eat along that corridor, whether you want a sandwich (like at Costinello's or Liberty Kitchen), Falafel at Goldie's, something fancier/more substantial at Elwood, Suraya, Middle Child, Cheu, etc. Or just want to eat at a bar, there's JB's, Kraftwerk and more, with great new places popping up all the time. This is true in most neighborhoods. The steak shops on South Street (Jim's when it reopens and Ishkibibble's) are probably the best places to eat in a touristy area where there's nothing else better around. Campo's or Sonny's in Olde City are good too if you can't get a table at a real restaurant or just want something quick.
- hiidrew 4y agoso many great places in this post. i'd also add angelo's. that's been my favorite steak since moving to the city (but also want to try d'alessandros, have heard good things)
- dfxm12 4y agoEveryone has an opinion and mine is to walk across the street from Dalessandro's and go to Chubby's instead :) I'm just not a fan of how finely they chop the meat at Dalassandro's.
- LarryMullins 4y agoTo be honest I've never found cheesesteaks to be exceptional, the best of them are just pretty good, cheap, convenient and satisfying. I tell people that if they want a really good sandwich in Philly, they should go to DiNic's for one of his pulled or roast pork sandwiches. It's in Reading Terminal Market, which is a pretty nice place to take visitors anyway.
- alberth 4y agoNeither Pat’s nor Geno’s is the correct answer. Just say’n.
- rcme 4y agoOut-of-towners are obsessed with the BEST, most obscure everything. It's one of the things I liked least about living in the city. Everything always felt like a competition about who knew the coolest places. It's comical that someone would travel more than a few minutes within NYC just to try a slice of pizza. Like if it's a nice neapolitan pie, sure. But just for a standard NYC-style slice? That's a waste of time. All the places that typically top people's list, like Joe's Pizza, Prince St. Pizza, Bleecker St., etc., are all very mid. You can get an equally good slice as those big names in almost any neighborhood.
- 1980phipsi 4y agoJoe's was my local pizza place. Then I moved. It's still my local pizza place.
- john_cogs 4y agoIf I’m in the neighborhood and feel even slightly hungry, I’m stopping at Joe’s.
- mgce 4y agoI travel well outside my neighborhood for standard slices regularly and I've never felt it's a waste of time. But maybe an out-of-towner feeling they need to find the perfect slice is a different perspective than mine as a local. I know what I want out of the places I seek out and I'm comfortable with whatever extra time investment that requires.
- xtiansimon 4y agoTrue. If you’re on vacation you want something to ground your day’s activity and a story to tell the peeps back home.
- Grazester 4y agoWhen I came into this thread I immediately did a search for Prince knowing there would be a comment about it here. I do like their slices but I am not leaving mid-town for that. I perfectly enjoy Upside Pizza slices.
- ericcholis 4y agoSimilarly, you could do the same thing on the other end of the state in Buffalo, NY. Hard to find a truly disappointing slice. What you will find, however, is a variety in "style" of pizza. They all live somewhere in the neighborhood of 80/20 NY/Chicago style. Easy to find a nice thin slice, but plenty of thicker doughier options. Never so far as a full deep-dish.
- ethbr0 4y agoCleveland had some really cool hybrid pizza. Rascal House!
- Spooky23 4y agoOf course in Buffalo you’d skip the slice and go to Duff’s.
- busterarm 4y agoOnly Buffalonians are proud of Duff's and Mighty Taco. Everyone else thinks they suck. Jim's Steak Out I will give you though. Buffalo HAS GOOD PIZZA! It's called Santora's. P.S. As far as sandwich shops go though, Reykjavik's Nonnabiti (RIP) was the G.O.A.T.
- awhitty 4y agoI 100% agree, and I've only visited NYC a couple times. Each time I visit, I try to eat at least one slice of pizza and one bagel every day. The thing that blows me away is how generally good they are, no matter where I buy them. Of course I'll look at reviews, but I won't walk more than 5 blocks to get a slice. Never been disappointed. Same thing visiting Paris - you can hunt for the BEST croissant, but the remarkable thing is that nearly everywhere you shop, you'll find a really, really good one. I live near Arsicault in SF, and though they might make the BEST croissant in the US (and I will probably live a shorter life due to the number of them I put in my body every week), I'd trade that for a really good croissant on every corner. I think it reflects having shared cultural values around the food and a knowledge in the community of what makes the food great both in terms of inputs and outputs, and I hope we never stop valuing good pizza!!
- cammikebrown 4y agoArsicault is also about three times the price of a croissant in Paris
- lifeisstillgood 4y agoEverything in SF is about three times the price of Paris ...
- yamtaddle 4y agoI live in a cheap flyover country city and our "good" croissants are also about 3x Parisian prices... but aren't good.
- ghaff 4y agoOne thing I've heard said about French food generally in the past is that there's an entire supply chain in France around French food in particular so you really tend not to get bad French staples at very many places--even if it's a random touristy place. You can rinse and repeat in many places for various items. For example, when I was last in Germany, you'd get good sandwiches with good bread at any random train station in a system of any size. Try that in the US.
- skrtskrt 4y agoexactly how it works with Los Angeles taco trucks if you're lucky you have 3-5 in a few block radius, and the "best taco truck in LA" is your favorite out of those
- robbyking 4y agoThat's what I used to tell people about San Francisco when I lived there twenty years ago -- the high end restaurants are great, but what's more impressive is that the average neighborhood eatery is more often than not really amazing, too.
- vineyardmike 4y ago> the high end restaurants are great, but what's more impressive is that the average neighborhood eatery is more often than not really amazing, too. Absolutely! I share the same. Part of that is the fine dining though. Fine dining is its own culture, and just like other Bay Area industries, once you get some good chefs in the city, they'll train people who open their own restaurants. Then the quality expectations go up among residents... and everything ends up better, even "down market".
- akgerber 4y agoThe other advantage California has is how fresh & delicious the produce is, year-round.
- craftkiller 4y ago> First; you will be impressed how close you are to a pizza spot wherever you are. Second: you will be impressed with the slice Unless you're in Bed Stuy. Most of the pizza here isn't worth the cardboard it comes in.
- edavison1 4y agoThis is absolute Seraghina slander. Maybe it's not Ops quality, but definitely better than Barboncino and one of the greats in the Roberta's-style lineage.
- pzone 4y agoOne good place in a whole neighborhood doesn’t change this! New York is plagued with bad pizza in the outer residential areas. The median pizza place in Bed-Stuy is not good.
- arolihas 4y agoI like Valentine's as well.
- bgribble 4y agoSeraghina is great, the sourdough crust is sooo good. I like Speedy Romeo a lot too but I think it’s on the wrong side of Classon to officially be Bed-Stuy.
- bradleyjg 4y agoBilly Joel sings about walking through Bed Stuy alone as akin riding his motorcycle in the rain. Taking his life in his hands. It still amazes me that well off people live there now.
- dclowd9901 4y agoThey're not hunting for the "best slice" because they want the best slice -- they just want a story to tell. Most people can't tell the difference between good and ok food.
- RandallBrown 4y agoEveryone has an opinion about good food and ok food. None of them are wrong.
- dclowd9901 4y agoExactly my point: how can there be a "best" slice?
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoI would not make such a claim. Outside of lunchtime it's hard to find a shop with a decent slice that hasn't been sitting for too long. Even then, lots are mediocre some, if not all of the time. You will find yourself constantly browsing the case for the least crappy pizza because the one you really want isn't going to be good.
- aqme28 4y agoTrue with traveling generally. The best Thai food I had wasn't at the "best Thai food" place in Bangkok, it was on a streetcorner. The best kebab I've had in Berlin wasn't at Ruya's, it's my local guy.
- mitthrowaway2 4y agoThat's because most of us have good pizza joints back home too, and we want to find out whether NY's famous pizza outdoes the places we know and like. We're usually only visiting for a short time and can't try six different pizza places unless we're going to eat nothing but pizza on our trip. And the best place often isn't the famous place. So it's worth it to us to put in the effort to search, while a local might not care as much where they get their pizza.
- DonHopkins 4y agoAnd I love all the fresh bagel shops too!
- yourapostasy 4y agoI would love to find "food safe heritage bagels" anywhere in the world, which would not be comfortable to the average modern palate today, so I've read. These would be turn of the 20th century New York Jewish style bagels, made back then by bagel unions entirely by hand because the dough was too stiff for common kneading machines at that time (not quite sure how that squares with the giant industrial machines of the day, maybe the missing detail is the common bakery kneading machines were not up to the task though a hyper-expensive custom machine could be commissioned). These were so infamously toughly chewy they were hyperbolically touted as teeth breaking and taking an indecent amount of time to digest. "Food safe" because bagel bakery conditions at the turn of the 20th century are unacceptable these days. Or maybe I've been bamboozled by food editors hunting for clicks.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago> Native New Yorker here. Out of towners are obsessed with the BEST slice I visited New York and ate at a pizza place† that advertised, if I recall correctly, their second-best rating according to someone who had made it their mission to sample and rate every pizza place in New York. (It couldn't have been this guy, since he says he started in 2014.) The pizza was subpar. Why would I be interested in what someone in New York thinks makes a good pizza? I want pizza that I like, not pizza that some random guy from a different pizza culture likes. † Not for the rating; I ate there because it was next to my hotel.
- busterarm 4y agoRay's Pizza on St Mark's Place consistently rates in the top 3 of many B&T food bloggers rating New York Pizza. It also has some of the worst pizza I've ever eaten in my entire life and a tremendous rat problem. Those ratings are bunk. Sacco Pizza on 9th Avenue & 55th St is an underrated gem and a family business since 1972.
- yunwal 4y agoI’d love to see which reviewer rates Ray’s pizza that high in recent years. I thought it was just famous for being on Saint Marks and appealing to drunks
- standardUser 4y agoI have to strongly disagree. It is kind of fun and amazing how many pizza places there are around every corner. The problem is, most of them are sub par. In fact, I feel bad for people visiting who just walk into a random slice place because odds are it won't be very good. The great thing about NY pizza is that it very good and very plentiful. But the crappy slice joints are even more plentiful.
- gnarcoregrizz 4y agoI agree. There are so many crappy pizza places in NY, especially in Manhattan. It’s a risk trying some random place. NJ has better and more consistent pizza and bagels. That said, I don’t even try to get pizza elsewhere, I’ve had some really extra gross greasy pizza in other states. For some reason, I’ve never been to a mountain town that can get it right.
- mapasj 4y agoAgree. I grew up in NJ and lived a few years in NYC. NYC has a lot of variation in what is called NY style pizza. A lot of it is bad. In NJ, the NY style pizza is a lot more consistent and overall better than NYC. Living in NYC I was always puzzled how there could exist such bad pizza there. Mostly I’m talking about Manhattan. Maybe it’s bad to me and not others, and has to do with NYC having so many residents that grew up elsewhere, bringing their own varied tastes in pizza?
- cyberlurker 4y agoI’m so relieved to see others recognizing this and it’s not just me. My theory is NYC had better average pizza in the past but people move out of the city over time. They probably move to lower cost areas. Many pizza makers in NJ are originally from NYC. The pizza is better in NJ on average.
- wkat4242 4y ago> Living in NYC I was always puzzled how there could exist such bad pizza there. Living in Barcelona I think this is pretty clear: Tourists. Though what's pizza in NYC is paella and tapas here of course. Their reasoning is simple. Most tourists don't ever come back so why bother investing in a quality product when you can just milk them for what they're worth. Even reviews don't help with this very much. As a local it's easy to avoid these places. Avoiding the ones with pictures of the food and sticky promoters outside trying to get you in the door does most of it. And realizing that most of the best places don't have the shiniest venues precisely because they don't need to. The locals know where to find them anyway.
- wildzzz 4y agoI've been to NYC once as a kid but I don't think we ever got pizza. I've had "NYC Style" elsewhere but it's always whatever. I had some business way out in Long Island and on the way back to JFK, I wanted to stop and finally grab one slice of some real NY pizza. Weirdly there were no good pizza places near where I was working so I had missed out until the drive back to the airport. I stopped at New Park Pizza, waited in line, ordered at the window, and ate the best damn pizza I've ever had. It was hot as hell but everything about it was perfect. Up until today, I actually couldn't remember what the place was called but could remember it was next to a CVS and near JFK. I found it on Maps and was pretty happy to see it listed on the list in the link.
- heavyset_go 4y agoThere's a lot of bad pizza in NYC, as well. Really depends on the establishment and customer expectations. If someone is planning to visit there with the belief that they can throw a stone and immediately hit a great pizza place, they'll probably be disappointed.
- cyberlurker 4y agoThere are also bad Italian restaurants, bagel places, coffee shops, Chinese food, etc. It bothers me that someone would say they are all good. There is no need to hype up NYC. You can get very high quality food, but not just by randomly going into a place.
- yunwal 4y agoThis is how I feel about bagels in NYC, but with pizza, and particularly slice shops (as opposed to restaurant style pizza) I do think the best slices in NYC are in a different class from any other American city L’industrie really does live up to the hype
- jshaqaw 4y agoYou sir understand our great city.
- willnonya 4y agoNot a New Yorker but been there many times. My impression of NYC lizzy is that like anywhere you might find a surprise gem but for rhe most part NYC Pizza falls somewhere between school lunchroom and mall pizza. If you want to brag about anything you have a much better case with bagels.
- balderdash 4y agoAgree, one thing though is some places you want the fresh slice out of the oven, other places you want the reheated slice (as they undercook the pizza with the expectation that it will be reheated later, and may even have to specify you want it “well done”)
- jghn 4y agoI have found it to be the opposite. If I walk into whatever random pizza shop happens to be nearby I’m always taken aback out how often it’s … ok. There’s a lot of good pizza to be found but even more if it is just ok. Mind you I mean ok in the literal sense, and don’t mean it’s bad. But a lot of people make it seem like every street corner has amazing pizza. But that’s just not true
- ineedasername 4y agoFor pizza this seems to have a halo effect as well. It you drop into a non-franchise pizzeria anywhere within roughly 50 miles of NYC then chances are you’ll have a pretty good NYC-style slice, and a reasonable chance of a slice that can stand next to most slices in NYC and still be proud of itself (if a bit awestruck by the company it finds itself in). I’ve seen a bit of this in areas of the country that have seen some emigration from NYC outwards: NC, FL. Maybe less so as you go west, unless some here have encountered them?
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- rakamotog 4y agoThis seems to be a pattern across regions, across foods! I have said the same of Hyderabad and Biryani. But none the less, when someone asks for a recommendation, I give a 70th or 80th percentile near their stay. Better than them randomly walking to a 20th percentile place because it was well lit.
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- geethree 4y agoIn my experience, the same applies to kebaps in Berlin as well.
- cyberlurker 4y agoAverage New York pizza quality is highly over rated. If you go to any random spot you are likely to get bad pizza. I think this has changed over time. Often there is better pizza in New Jersey. This is not a joke. I strongly disagree with advising people to try random NYC pizza places. My theory is a lot of the good pizza makers moved out of the city to the suburbs or lower cost cities.
- mgce 4y agoI agree wholeheartedly. Thanks for having the courage to state this. I think the reasons are straightforward: 1: The supply chain has evolved. Affordable ingredients are mass produced and low quality and a pizza place needs a strong motive to choose better ingredients. 2: family pride has not passed to current generations. And as you say most of those families have migrated out to the suburbs. To be fair, I still think the bar is much lower outside the NY area. So visitors may legitimately love places we cringe at. And more power to them, frankly. I think the decline extends to the suburbs too. Would love to get some of your New Jersey recs.
- jimmaswell 4y agoI may have been unlucky but the only slice I've had in NYC was mediocre mush compared to places around the Hudson Valley.
- deanCommie 4y agoIt's the same with Sushi in Vancouver. It's because the BEST Pizza in NYC is probably on par with some of the best pizza in other cities. Great chefs can make great Pizza. They can do this wherever they are. What makes a town renowned for a type of food is the MEDIAN quality. Vancouver has more Sushi restaurants than Starbucks and bad ones don't last. You are always within a 15 minute walk to a better sushi restaurant than 90% of cities outside of Japan. I understand NYC is the same with Pizza