22 ms·

NeevaAI

266 points by corentin88 4y ago

amai 4y ago
Older submission: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34308358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34308358
abhi051088 4y ago
Neeva on its site does not have ads. but it pays Google to show ads. as next steps, are you going to share data in aggregate to other vendors to optimize your ads? do you already do that with Google? Neeva's ad on Google - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=neeva+price&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5s5fzrcD8AhXLAjQIHUCKCwgQBSgAegQICBAB&biw=1536&bih=711&dpr=1.25 https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=neeva+pri...
ignoramous 4y ago
For as well-funded startup as Neeva with long term Google Search execs at helm, they seem to have their heads turned at every passing fad. Not long ago were they raising money for their spin-off web3 search engine n.xyz and now this (admittedly, AI is much closer to their core biz). Wouldn't you be surprised if they entered the RISC V market, too?
- numbchuckskills 4y ago
  I think it more closely speaks to how fast a startup in this space can move.
  - ativzzz 4y ago
    Alternatively, it speaks to a lack of focus and lack of will to stick with a product and polish it unless it produces massive returns immediately
- idopmstuff 4y ago
  On the other hand, if you're going to disrupt a market like search, isn't there a good chance that you'll do so by more quickly embracing a new technology than your large, slow-moving competitors? And with the need to move quickly and stay ahead of the curve, doesn't it make sense to take some risks on using technology whose benefits maybe aren't fully clear yet?
  - goldenchrome 4y ago
    Possibly, but it really feels like they just don’t have a vision.
    - greatpostman 4y ago
      Almost like google
  - streets11703 4y ago
    (co founder) We have worked on neeva search for four years and have really sweated building out a real system with a massive crawl, index and serving systems. We see AI as a way to get people to answers faster and provide an overall better experience. We tried hard to tune neevaAI to make sure that it doesn't hallucinate. And to be very clear, we are using LLMs to help distill information from sites and aren't pretending to be the source of truth. Hence the citations for each and every sentence.
    - idopmstuff 4y ago
      To be clear, my comment wasn't a critique - if you're an early-stage startup, it makes sense to try new things and attempt to catch new trends early, since they can carry you past your established competitors. I think the search engine with citations is a great idea - you're grabbing onto a big trend while solving a clear, hugely-discussed problem (you can't trust LLMs to give truthful answers, and that's exacerbated by the fact that you can't see where their info is coming from). Hope it works out for you.
      - 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- urthor 4y ago
  Early in 2022, the rumour was Sand Hill Road essentially asked its startup portfolio to invest in Crypto. iirc Neeva wasn't doing too flash back then. Now, Neeva's playing in its own ballpark.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 4y ago
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Imnimo 4y ago
"What's the half-life of a proton?" NeevaAI: >The half life of a proton is at least 1.67x1034 years. Recent developments of grand unification models have suggested that it might decay with a half-life of about 1032 years. Note that the lack of exponents are reproduced from the original. Neeva says 1032 years, not 10^32 years. The linked source for 1032 displays the 32 as a proper exponent, but Neeva seems to strip this critical formatting.
- Imnimo 4y ago
  "Which is heavier, a kilogram of feathers or a kilogram of steel?" NeevaAI: A kilogram of steel is heavier than a kilogram of feathers. This is because any volume of steel is heavier than the same volume of feathers. Additionally, the weight of the feathers must also be taken into account when considering the weight of the feathers.
  - Imnimo 4y ago
    "Who is the reigning monarch of England?" NeevaAI: The reigning monarch of England is Queen Elizabeth II. She has been on the throne since 1952 and is the longest-reigning British monarch in history.
    - xyos 4y ago
      same for current president of Colombia NeevaAI: The current president of Colombia is Iván Duque Márquez.1 He was elected on June 17, 2018 and is serving a four-year term from 2018-2022.1 He is the 14th president of Colombia since the ratification of the Constitution of 1819.
    - imwm 4y ago
      Google has the same answer tbf
      - spzb 4y ago
        Google answers "who is the queen of England?" with the reponse "Charles III". Close, no cigar.
weka 4y ago
It sure would nice to find it on the webpage. I got done trying to search for it after 5 minutes.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
transitivebs 4y ago
If only the search wasn't paywalled...
- motoxpro 4y ago
  That's literally the point of the product... non ads based monetization
  - vivekraghunatha 4y ago
    (co-founder) Actually, 1. you can just search on neeva.com w/o signing up for an account 2. If/when you sign up for an account, you can choose between our "free basic" (free) product and our "premium" (paid) product. The premium product includes access to a VPN and a password manager. All these options are ads-free and private. (To experience Neeva AI, you need an account for now.)
personjerry 4y ago
I've built some AI-powered software before, and the issue for a lot of the consumer-facing tools such as this one is that a few incorrect results voids the value of the whole system. I think you'd probably need >95% accuracy for the benefits to outweigh the cost, and looking at the comments here it's clear that that bar has not been cleared. To put it simply: If you can't be sure that the results are accurate, how can you default to this search system?
- tylersmith 4y ago
  This has actually been my issue with Neeva since before the AI thing. I love the idea of a search engine I can fund by paying directly instead of hoping Google can continue to make money off giving me stuff, but 95% of my Neeva searches result in going to Google anyways. For a while my muscle memory when searching was to prefix with a "g" so why pay a middle man?
  - jacooper 4y ago
    Have you tried Brave search? I actually found it to be good and you can use it for free or subscribe for an ad free version.
    - tylersmith 4y ago
      Tbh I didn't realize they had a paid option until I looked after reading this comment. I'll probably try it out, thanks.
    - vrc 4y ago
      What powers Brave search?
      - codercotton 4y ago
        Brave powers Brave Search. Independent search Even supposedly “neutral” or “private” search engines rely on big tech for results. Brave is different. We deliver results based on our own built-from-scratch index. We’re beholden to no one.
hahaxdxd123 4y ago
Interesting. I know Google had legal issues in Australia(?) because they had a little box that would scrape an answer from a website without you having to go to the website. Content creators are clearly not going to be happy with this, but not citing sources leads to the same confidently incorrect answers people have pointed out in ChatGPT. I wonder where this will go.
- kibibu 4y ago
  You're correct. The "News Media and Digital Platforms Mandatory Bargaining Code" requires search engines and social media sites to negotiate terms (including payment) when embedding (and more dangerously, linking to) news content. (Act is here: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2021A00021 https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2021A00021 - sadly it's an amendment which makes it harder to read, but it includes all the pertinent details)
  - its_notjack 4y ago
    embedding i can understand due to lost revenue, but i really don't understand how linking to articles can possibly be anything but a boon for news outlets. how do news sites think people discover their content in the first place?! i don't know anyone of my generation who still subscribes to a single news outlet for their news.
wellthisisgreat 4y ago
Is this based on ChatGPT?
abhayhegde 4y ago
Looks interesting, but at first sight, this summarises the first few Google results with relevant points. That would immediately present limitations. Not all Google results are accurate or helpful, implying answers could be useless. Also, if a topic has no presence on Google, this bot cannot extract anymore information.
version_five 4y ago
How is Neeva monetized? It is a paid search? I subscribe to another paid search that I've seen mention AI (what I assume means large language models) as an upcoming feature. Personally I see it as a gimmick (as others have mentioned it gives many wrong results, and I don't think rhd user experience is there, even if it gives correct results, I don't use search that way much and I already know how to answer questions). My point being I don't value paying for it, and it's a shame to see development effort focused this way, as others have said, so follow a trend. There is already so much wrong with mainstream search that can be improved upon, adding a me-too AI feature really doesn't seem like a great use of time. Otoh, maybe the calculus is that it will draw in new users who also are following the trend? I just hope real advances in website discovery and business model do not take a back seat to this
- lysergia 4y ago
  > How is Neeva monetized? > Neeva is 100% ad-free and never sells or shares members' data with any third party. Neeva's Free Basic membership is completely free and full-featured, allowing members to search both the web and connected personal accounts like Gmail or Dropbox (subject to certain usage limits), set news and shopping preferences, and search from multiple devices. > To earn money, Neeva offers a Premium membership tier where some members choose to pay a monthly fee and receive best-in-class privacy-protecting tools, as well as other exclusive insider benefits. https://help.neeva.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500011532921-How-does-Neeva-make-money- https://help.neeva.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500011532921-How-d... Looks like the $$$ they get from premium subscriptions finances their 'free' offering, but as with all services with this model I am skeptical of anything 'free' since it could be powering their AI and later down the line that will be potentially abused or weaponized.
  - version_five 4y ago
    Thanks for the link - I tried to find a pricing page or equivalent but obviously didn't look hard enough. One thing to note is that the basic search appears to only allow 50 queries per month, and limited use across devices, so it seems they are really just using it as a teaser. That makes me feel better about the product actually, as it suggests against a business model of trying to monetize personal information. It is half the price of Kagi though, so either they have a lower cost structure somehow or they are currently running it at a loss
oogabooga13 4y ago
I like trying out the Kagi Web + AI search beta right now. Not only does it give you chatgpt3 style answers, it cites sources. Going beyond verifying the informatation (which is very comforting) I can dig into the weblinks on my own. (no affiliation other than a satisfied customer) https://labs.kagi.com/ai/contextai https://labs.kagi.com/ai/contextai Also I don't like the NeevaAI pricing break down style. The annual plan which cost more upfront is broken down into a monthly amount instead of the what I will pay today at checkout price. It brings back negative memories of signing up for Adobe Cloud.
- thefourthchime 4y ago
  Cool, but wow is that slow.
  - oogabooga13 4y ago
    Agreed! Since it's in beta par for the course IMO. That being said, in a certain context it's just as fast or faster because I don't have to dig into the webpage/manual cruft to get that nugget of information I need to keep moving! Hope access remains available to all....do we need a "Wikipedia" type of AI (few barriers to access) available to all?
gardenhedge 4y ago
Locked to a geo region? Not a great launch
- vivekraghunatha 4y ago
  (co-founder) Working hard to address.
  - gardenhedge 4y ago
    Good to hear. Was it a decision by the team or is there some restrictions with providing the service in different geo regions?
    - vivekraghunatha 4y ago
      Decision by team to first iterate with users and make the system work really well in one region before expanding
anderber 4y ago
I've been trying it out since it came out and I've been surprised by how good the answers have been. I also like that it cited the sources. Although Neeva doesn't quite have as good of search results as Kagi, I really like all the features that they bring and this NeevaAI really helps make their search better.
vouaobrasil 4y ago
In my opinion, we should not just be sitting back and debating the technical merits of this technology. Rather, we should be asking ourselves about the greater societal implications of AI and information. For example, have we considered the fact that computers might be much better at deception than humans, and that this ability for deception will be used against us by megacorps and maybe even governments? Or what about the fact that AI may eliminate the need for having other people to talk to because it will get so good at satisfying a large portion of our intellectual needs? I know AI is not there yet, but this is not just something amusing that can improve search. It is the start of a huge change in society that extends the advanced technological infiltration that has already occurred. Before you look at this as another toy, just take at least an hour of your time to consider what this will lead to. Personally, I find AI disgusting.
impulser_ 4y ago
On Neeva's front page, they show a side by side of results for Neeva vs. Google with the query "what to do in a car accident". The example they give for Google is not even close to the one I get in both regular and incognito mode. My result is a step by step guide from Allstate with more steps provided than Neeva. I only get 3 on Neeva vs. 8 on Google. The first result that shows on Neeva is a broken link to an Australian gov site. I'm in the US. The second link on Neeva is the exact same link as Google. So Google is actually giving a way better result because it gives more step by step information, provides a working link, and the website is localized to where I live. You don't want people calling 000 over 911 lol.
- streets11703 4y ago
  (co founder): have you tried google mobile? I just did by setting my user agent to be an iphone and got the same pile of ads on google. And trying the same query on Neeva gives you a step by step direction right on top including the information to call 911. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j64PkSm0EEoam5l2yByWv3P6Vdvi4jBEq-pZrPOHsCw/view https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j64PkSm0EEoam5l2yByWv3P6...
  - impulser_ 4y ago
    You are right about Google on mobile. I get 3 ads about settlement collection. Then I get the first actual result which is a better result than I get on desktop. It shows more accurate steps from a local personal injury lawyer's website. The second link is the same Allstate link. I tried the query on both Neeva mobile site and Android app and still get the same Australian link that is broken. The same link in the picture you have on your website. The second link is the same Allstate link I get on desktop Google. I guess I never realize mobile Google is vastly different than desktop Google even without an ad block on.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- aaronharnly 4y ago
  Neeva gave me this result: > If you are in a car accident, the first thing to do is to determine if anyone is injured and call 911 if necessary.1 Then, go to the nearest police station and file a report as soon as possible.2 After that, exchange information with the other driver, take pictures of the scene, and contact your insurance company Which isn’t really coherent — it says you should go to the police station, THEN take pictures of the scene (which you’ve already left). Definitely has some work to do.
ipython 4y ago
Don't worry, Neeva has your NFT search needs met too: https://neeva.xyz/ https://neeva.xyz/ (linked to off the front page)
Snowbird3999 4y ago
Despite errors in the statements made by the LLMs, I'm a huge fan of this syntax which has inline references. Seem like a great bridge between LLMs being "statistical babble" and a useful knowledge-retrieval tool. Curious whether the references themselves could be wrong? Or how they would be generated to (for example) prioritize primary sources over secondary sources.
- streets11703 4y ago
  (co founder) It is early days in this technology! In some cases (think news), you want the freshest news while in other cases (breaking story), you want the first article that broke the news. Def things that we are working on.
- visarga 4y ago
  Uses a LLM to summarise sources, it knows the URLs of the sources.
viser 4y ago
Is there a search engine left that does NOT try to predict what i want to see? Id rather see that my query returned no results instead of tons of maybe hits.
evrydayhustling 4y ago
My search clearly returned a skinned version of the google search. I smell vapor. Edit: that was hasty. I compared the search and saw different hits. But the format was 99.9% identical, and didn't include any AI synthesis (or anything else to recommend it over a typical search). This was with a logged in (free) account. Has anyone triggered the "AI summary w/ citations" behavior?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
georgehill 4y ago
I have been using Neeva for a while and I am curious about the ranking algorithm used to rank webpages. It appears that Neeva is mixing its own search results with Bing, but I am not certain.
varelse 4y ago
[dead]
deleted 4y ago
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chairmanwow1 4y ago
I paid for neeva for something like 16 months and just cancelled last week. Load times for search were frequently >1s which seems ok the first few times, but after a while got annoying. Also ~20 esoteric programming queries a month would drive me to google. +10 attempts on Neeva and then same words on google instant hit. Their personalized search results are awesome. You can downrank spam or even certain sites you don’t like for you personally. Also your emails and docs will appear in search alongside everything on the web. Which is a really convenient feature. Their iOS app was plagued with regressions to the point for 2 months last year I couldn’t even use it. Tried for a long time, but despite all of Google’s failings around ads being 80% of results the premium offerings aren’t even close.
sashu123 4y ago
Perplexity.ai seems to give me better results for now
gandalfgeek 4y ago
Founded by the guy who used to to head up Google Ads engineering (Sridhar Ramaswamy). I know some might jump to conclusions just from that, but this EconTalk appearance by Ramaswamy goes into his motivations. He sounded like he had soured on the entire free-with-Ads model. https://www.econtalk.org/sridhar-ramaswamy-on-google-search-and-neeva/ https://www.econtalk.org/sridhar-ramaswamy-on-google-search-...
FpUser 4y ago
Unless AI can back the answer with the references I can verify I would not trust the results at all.
- thefourthchime 4y ago
  It does
woeirua 4y ago
Now that we’re getting a small preview of what ChatGPT would be like with sources cited, I’m ready to say that there is a 100% chance that this style of search will be sued into oblivion. Publishers already almost drove Google News to extinction when it was merely summing up headlines, can you imagine the outrage when those sites see their traffic drop off by 75%? This might be the Achilles heel of this entire approach to search. If you’re too successful you kill off the sites that you need to scrape for data.
- moneywoes 4y ago
  Wasn’t google news able to get away with it? Good point though
  - skybrian 4y ago
    Yes, but they nerfed it by getting rid of article snippets entirely. There are just headlines now.
- robbomacrae 4y ago
  I'm very curious about the legal implications of all of this. With NeevaAI they appear to be citing content such as abcnews or businessinsider that is unlikely to have licensing that allows them to use it this way - but please correct me if I'm wrong. openAI and chatGPT refuses to provide sources even when asked saying its "sourced from general knowledge".. which might obfuscate it until someone can find clear terminology from their content being reused. And if we hackers build on top of tools such as openai how do we cover ourselves from any potential license abuse? Is it enough to have a YouTube style take down policy?
  - woeirua 4y ago
    OpenAI will end up forced into a royalty licensing agreement with the underlying sites that they’re scraping. Every time they serve up a snippet from a site that site will get a fraction of a penny. As a result, OpenAI is going to have to find a way to monetize their search quickly. I’m just not sure how they would do that. I wouldn’t build my app directly on ChatGPT. They’re going to charge for it soon enough, and if the pricing is onerous your company will go belly up.
vinaypai 4y ago
I've been using Neeva for about a year now, and this is the feature that might get me to abandon them. The AI returns blatantly wrong results for fairly obvious search prompts. Q: new york california distance A: The distance between New York and California is 3,928 kilometers (2,441 miles). The driving distance is 2,866 miles (4,612 kilometers). The road distance is 269.5 miles. Q: fed interest rate A: The current Fed Funds Rate range is 0.75% - 1%. This is the result of a 50-basis-point rate hike at the Fed’s final 2022 meeting in December. This is the most significant fed rate hike over 17 years. The Fed's rate-setting committee hiked its benchmark rate by 0.5 percentage point on Wednesday, lifting its target rate into a range between 4.25% and 4.5%. The Federal Reserve System is the central banking system of the United States of America. This is all made worse by the fact that the AI results are presented with a distracting and pointless animation.
- sam_goody 4y ago
  You've intrigued me - what are the blatantly correct answers, and how do you know that these are wrong? I did a search on DDG for "new york california distance". The first result, https://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from-new-york-to-california https://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from-new-york-to-cal... has no "road distance", but claims the distance by plane is 2,441 miles. The second result, https://www.rome2rio.com/s/New-York/California https://www.rome2rio.com/s/New-York/California has no plane or car metrics but claims the distance by bus is 4733 km. Considering that the bus detours through Philly, Denver, Las Vegas, etc, the number you gave of 4.6K seems reasonable. The third result, https://www.distance.to/California/New-york https://www.distance.to/California/New-york matches both numbers Neeva gave.
- fnbr 4y ago
  this is why I don’t think google is threatened by LLMs. 1) this doesn’t do links, and 2) it has accuracy issues. I don’t understand the hysteria about how google will be replaced by ChatGPT.
  - boloust 4y ago
    NeevaAI does provide source links.
jaimex2 4y ago
This is basically Siri
dang 4y ago
Related: Neeva: Ad-free, subscription-based search engine launches - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27676834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27676834 - June 2021 (27 comments) Neeva Announces Public Availability of Its Ads Free, Private Search Engine - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27675408 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27675408 - June 2021 (94 comments)
Thorentis 4y ago
Returns incorrect results regularly and convincingly. Should be worthless. Stop chasing anything that has "AI" in it.
savolai 4y ago
How do I actually access AI search on Neeva? Created account, all results are google-style, there does not seem to be a link to ai searc anywhere despite this announcement saying creating account suffices.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
Bleh. I would take Google but actually working like it used to over any of these new-fangled LLM "improved" things. Just generates more nonsense to wade through to get to what I'm looking for.
andrewstuart 4y ago
Google had nothing but a search field. Neeva has a wall of text and a sign in barrier.
college_physics 4y ago
Maybe we have reached the end of "generic search"? Searching the web shopping for a product is distinctly different from asking various fact finding questions, which is different from searching for an error message from a library etc. Personally I would prefer if those distinct tasks were served by distinct providers, with different (and transparent) business models, using different levels of underlying human curation and/or other optimizations as appropriate for each sub-domain. E.g. for "facts" I would want a wikipedia+ type tool with a lot of curation. I am not looking for somebody to sell me something, just one answer that settles the fact. For code related stuff I would want primary sources only (hence a manual pre-selection of what is being indexed). There is obviously room for more commercially oriented product search and in this domain search could be an ad-sponsored marketplace / catalog, but without the atrocious personal profiling practices. The idea that it is "optimal" to have just one URL for interacting with the entire online universe no matter who your are and what you are after is a bit strange.
- ricardo81 4y ago
  Search bars in browsers can pretty much be the tool you describe, simply add the engines for each. I think part of the potential issue is the cognitive burden of pre-deciding which search engine you want to use for every search.
  - college_physics 4y ago
    A simple dropdown menu in the search bar would do it for me. When coding, select option 1, when shoping option 2 etc. On desktops this could be even pre-selected for the user based on desktop activity. From the backend perspective this could be implemented with a generic url and passing parameters that engage with different parts of the search engine but the importance of the business model that supports the development of each search sub-domain should not be understated... Its hard to see how these different modes can coexist and flurish under one corporate structure

266 points by corentin88 4y ago

amai 4y ago

Older submission: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34308358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34308358

Neeva on its site does not have ads. but it pays Google to show ads. as next steps, are you going to share data in aggregate to other vendors to optimize your ads? do you already do that with Google? Neeva's ad on Google - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=neeva+price&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5s5fzrcD8AhXLAjQIHUCKCwgQBSgAegQICBAB&biw=1536&bih=711&dpr=1.25 https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=neeva+pri...

ignoramous 4y ago

For as well-funded startup as Neeva with long term Google Search execs at helm, they seem to have their heads turned at every passing fad. Not long ago were they raising money for their spin-off web3 search engine n.xyz and now this (admittedly, AI is much closer to their core biz). Wouldn't you be surprised if they entered the RISC V market, too?

numbchuckskills 4y ago
I think it more closely speaks to how fast a startup in this space can move.
- ativzzz 4y ago
  Alternatively, it speaks to a lack of focus and lack of will to stick with a product and polish it unless it produces massive returns immediately
idopmstuff 4y ago
On the other hand, if you're going to disrupt a market like search, isn't there a good chance that you'll do so by more quickly embracing a new technology than your large, slow-moving competitors? And with the need to move quickly and stay ahead of the curve, doesn't it make sense to take some risks on using technology whose benefits maybe aren't fully clear yet?
- goldenchrome 4y ago
  Possibly, but it really feels like they just don’t have a vision.
  - greatpostman 4y ago
    Almost like google
- streets11703 4y ago
  (co founder) We have worked on neeva search for four years and have really sweated building out a real system with a massive crawl, index and serving systems. We see AI as a way to get people to answers faster and provide an overall better experience. We tried hard to tune neevaAI to make sure that it doesn't hallucinate. And to be very clear, we are using LLMs to help distill information from sites and aren't pretending to be the source of truth. Hence the citations for each and every sentence.
  - idopmstuff 4y ago
    To be clear, my comment wasn't a critique - if you're an early-stage startup, it makes sense to try new things and attempt to catch new trends early, since they can carry you past your established competitors. I think the search engine with citations is a great idea - you're grabbing onto a big trend while solving a clear, hugely-discussed problem (you can't trust LLMs to give truthful answers, and that's exacerbated by the fact that you can't see where their info is coming from). Hope it works out for you.
    - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
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urthor 4y ago
Early in 2022, the rumour was Sand Hill Road essentially asked its startup portfolio to invest in Crypto. iirc Neeva wasn't doing too flash back then. Now, Neeva's playing in its own ballpark.
deleted 4y ago
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deleted 4y ago

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Imnimo 4y ago

"What's the half-life of a proton?" NeevaAI: >The half life of a proton is at least 1.67x1034 years. Recent developments of grand unification models have suggested that it might decay with a half-life of about 1032 years. Note that the lack of exponents are reproduced from the original. Neeva says 1032 years, not 10^32 years. The linked source for 1032 displays the 32 as a proper exponent, but Neeva seems to strip this critical formatting.

Imnimo 4y ago
"Which is heavier, a kilogram of feathers or a kilogram of steel?" NeevaAI: A kilogram of steel is heavier than a kilogram of feathers. This is because any volume of steel is heavier than the same volume of feathers. Additionally, the weight of the feathers must also be taken into account when considering the weight of the feathers.
- Imnimo 4y ago
  "Who is the reigning monarch of England?" NeevaAI: The reigning monarch of England is Queen Elizabeth II. She has been on the throne since 1952 and is the longest-reigning British monarch in history.
  - xyos 4y ago
    same for current president of Colombia NeevaAI: The current president of Colombia is Iván Duque Márquez.1 He was elected on June 17, 2018 and is serving a four-year term from 2018-2022.1 He is the 14th president of Colombia since the ratification of the Constitution of 1819.
  - imwm 4y ago
    Google has the same answer tbf
    - spzb 4y ago
      Google answers "who is the queen of England?" with the reponse "Charles III". Close, no cigar.

weka 4y ago

It sure would nice to find it on the webpage. I got done trying to search for it after 5 minutes.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

transitivebs 4y ago

If only the search wasn't paywalled...

motoxpro 4y ago
That's literally the point of the product... non ads based monetization
- vivekraghunatha 4y ago
  (co-founder) Actually, 1. you can just search on neeva.com w/o signing up for an account 2. If/when you sign up for an account, you can choose between our "free basic" (free) product and our "premium" (paid) product. The premium product includes access to a VPN and a password manager. All these options are ads-free and private. (To experience Neeva AI, you need an account for now.)

personjerry 4y ago

I've built some AI-powered software before, and the issue for a lot of the consumer-facing tools such as this one is that a few incorrect results voids the value of the whole system. I think you'd probably need >95% accuracy for the benefits to outweigh the cost, and looking at the comments here it's clear that that bar has not been cleared. To put it simply: If you can't be sure that the results are accurate, how can you default to this search system?

tylersmith 4y ago
This has actually been my issue with Neeva since before the AI thing. I love the idea of a search engine I can fund by paying directly instead of hoping Google can continue to make money off giving me stuff, but 95% of my Neeva searches result in going to Google anyways. For a while my muscle memory when searching was to prefix with a "g" so why pay a middle man?
- jacooper 4y ago
  Have you tried Brave search? I actually found it to be good and you can use it for free or subscribe for an ad free version.
  - tylersmith 4y ago
    Tbh I didn't realize they had a paid option until I looked after reading this comment. I'll probably try it out, thanks.
  - vrc 4y ago
    What powers Brave search?
    - codercotton 4y ago
      Brave powers Brave Search. Independent search Even supposedly “neutral” or “private” search engines rely on big tech for results. Brave is different. We deliver results based on our own built-from-scratch index. We’re beholden to no one.

hahaxdxd123 4y ago

Interesting. I know Google had legal issues in Australia(?) because they had a little box that would scrape an answer from a website without you having to go to the website. Content creators are clearly not going to be happy with this, but not citing sources leads to the same confidently incorrect answers people have pointed out in ChatGPT. I wonder where this will go.

kibibu 4y ago
You're correct. The "News Media and Digital Platforms Mandatory Bargaining Code" requires search engines and social media sites to negotiate terms (including payment) when embedding (and more dangerously, linking to) news content. (Act is here: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2021A00021 https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2021A00021 - sadly it's an amendment which makes it harder to read, but it includes all the pertinent details)
- its_notjack 4y ago
  embedding i can understand due to lost revenue, but i really don't understand how linking to articles can possibly be anything but a boon for news outlets. how do news sites think people discover their content in the first place?! i don't know anyone of my generation who still subscribes to a single news outlet for their news.

wellthisisgreat 4y ago

Is this based on ChatGPT?

abhayhegde 4y ago

Looks interesting, but at first sight, this summarises the first few Google results with relevant points. That would immediately present limitations. Not all Google results are accurate or helpful, implying answers could be useless. Also, if a topic has no presence on Google, this bot cannot extract anymore information.

version_five 4y ago

How is Neeva monetized? It is a paid search? I subscribe to another paid search that I've seen mention AI (what I assume means large language models) as an upcoming feature. Personally I see it as a gimmick (as others have mentioned it gives many wrong results, and I don't think rhd user experience is there, even if it gives correct results, I don't use search that way much and I already know how to answer questions). My point being I don't value paying for it, and it's a shame to see development effort focused this way, as others have said, so follow a trend. There is already so much wrong with mainstream search that can be improved upon, adding a me-too AI feature really doesn't seem like a great use of time. Otoh, maybe the calculus is that it will draw in new users who also are following the trend? I just hope real advances in website discovery and business model do not take a back seat to this

lysergia 4y ago
> How is Neeva monetized? > Neeva is 100% ad-free and never sells or shares members' data with any third party. Neeva's Free Basic membership is completely free and full-featured, allowing members to search both the web and connected personal accounts like Gmail or Dropbox (subject to certain usage limits), set news and shopping preferences, and search from multiple devices. > To earn money, Neeva offers a Premium membership tier where some members choose to pay a monthly fee and receive best-in-class privacy-protecting tools, as well as other exclusive insider benefits. https://help.neeva.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500011532921-How-does-Neeva-make-money- https://help.neeva.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500011532921-How-d... Looks like the $$$ they get from premium subscriptions finances their 'free' offering, but as with all services with this model I am skeptical of anything 'free' since it could be powering their AI and later down the line that will be potentially abused or weaponized.
- version_five 4y ago
  Thanks for the link - I tried to find a pricing page or equivalent but obviously didn't look hard enough. One thing to note is that the basic search appears to only allow 50 queries per month, and limited use across devices, so it seems they are really just using it as a teaser. That makes me feel better about the product actually, as it suggests against a business model of trying to monetize personal information. It is half the price of Kagi though, so either they have a lower cost structure somehow or they are currently running it at a loss

oogabooga13 4y ago

I like trying out the Kagi Web + AI search beta right now. Not only does it give you chatgpt3 style answers, it cites sources. Going beyond verifying the informatation (which is very comforting) I can dig into the weblinks on my own. (no affiliation other than a satisfied customer) https://labs.kagi.com/ai/contextai https://labs.kagi.com/ai/contextai Also I don't like the NeevaAI pricing break down style. The annual plan which cost more upfront is broken down into a monthly amount instead of the what I will pay today at checkout price. It brings back negative memories of signing up for Adobe Cloud.

thefourthchime 4y ago
Cool, but wow is that slow.
- oogabooga13 4y ago
  Agreed! Since it's in beta par for the course IMO. That being said, in a certain context it's just as fast or faster because I don't have to dig into the webpage/manual cruft to get that nugget of information I need to keep moving! Hope access remains available to all....do we need a "Wikipedia" type of AI (few barriers to access) available to all?

gardenhedge 4y ago

Locked to a geo region? Not a great launch

vivekraghunatha 4y ago
(co-founder) Working hard to address.
- gardenhedge 4y ago
  Good to hear. Was it a decision by the team or is there some restrictions with providing the service in different geo regions?
  - vivekraghunatha 4y ago
    Decision by team to first iterate with users and make the system work really well in one region before expanding

anderber 4y ago

I've been trying it out since it came out and I've been surprised by how good the answers have been. I also like that it cited the sources. Although Neeva doesn't quite have as good of search results as Kagi, I really like all the features that they bring and this NeevaAI really helps make their search better.

vouaobrasil 4y ago

In my opinion, we should not just be sitting back and debating the technical merits of this technology. Rather, we should be asking ourselves about the greater societal implications of AI and information. For example, have we considered the fact that computers might be much better at deception than humans, and that this ability for deception will be used against us by megacorps and maybe even governments? Or what about the fact that AI may eliminate the need for having other people to talk to because it will get so good at satisfying a large portion of our intellectual needs? I know AI is not there yet, but this is not just something amusing that can improve search. It is the start of a huge change in society that extends the advanced technological infiltration that has already occurred. Before you look at this as another toy, just take at least an hour of your time to consider what this will lead to. Personally, I find AI disgusting.

impulser_ 4y ago

On Neeva's front page, they show a side by side of results for Neeva vs. Google with the query "what to do in a car accident". The example they give for Google is not even close to the one I get in both regular and incognito mode. My result is a step by step guide from Allstate with more steps provided than Neeva. I only get 3 on Neeva vs. 8 on Google. The first result that shows on Neeva is a broken link to an Australian gov site. I'm in the US. The second link on Neeva is the exact same link as Google. So Google is actually giving a way better result because it gives more step by step information, provides a working link, and the website is localized to where I live. You don't want people calling 000 over 911 lol.

streets11703 4y ago
(co founder): have you tried google mobile? I just did by setting my user agent to be an iphone and got the same pile of ads on google. And trying the same query on Neeva gives you a step by step direction right on top including the information to call 911. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j64PkSm0EEoam5l2yByWv3P6Vdvi4jBEq-pZrPOHsCw/view https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j64PkSm0EEoam5l2yByWv3P6...
- impulser_ 4y ago
  You are right about Google on mobile. I get 3 ads about settlement collection. Then I get the first actual result which is a better result than I get on desktop. It shows more accurate steps from a local personal injury lawyer's website. The second link is the same Allstate link. I tried the query on both Neeva mobile site and Android app and still get the same Australian link that is broken. The same link in the picture you have on your website. The second link is the same Allstate link I get on desktop Google. I guess I never realize mobile Google is vastly different than desktop Google even without an ad block on.
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aaronharnly 4y ago
Neeva gave me this result: > If you are in a car accident, the first thing to do is to determine if anyone is injured and call 911 if necessary.1 Then, go to the nearest police station and file a report as soon as possible.2 After that, exchange information with the other driver, take pictures of the scene, and contact your insurance company Which isn’t really coherent — it says you should go to the police station, THEN take pictures of the scene (which you’ve already left). Definitely has some work to do.

ipython 4y ago

Don't worry, Neeva has your NFT search needs met too: https://neeva.xyz/ https://neeva.xyz/ (linked to off the front page)

Snowbird3999 4y ago

Despite errors in the statements made by the LLMs, I'm a huge fan of this syntax which has inline references. Seem like a great bridge between LLMs being "statistical babble" and a useful knowledge-retrieval tool. Curious whether the references themselves could be wrong? Or how they would be generated to (for example) prioritize primary sources over secondary sources.

streets11703 4y ago
(co founder) It is early days in this technology! In some cases (think news), you want the freshest news while in other cases (breaking story), you want the first article that broke the news. Def things that we are working on.
visarga 4y ago
Uses a LLM to summarise sources, it knows the URLs of the sources.

viser 4y ago

Is there a search engine left that does NOT try to predict what i want to see? Id rather see that my query returned no results instead of tons of maybe hits.

evrydayhustling 4y ago

My search clearly returned a skinned version of the google search. I smell vapor. Edit: that was hasty. I compared the search and saw different hits. But the format was 99.9% identical, and didn't include any AI synthesis (or anything else to recommend it over a typical search). This was with a logged in (free) account. Has anyone triggered the "AI summary w/ citations" behavior?

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georgehill 4y ago

I have been using Neeva for a while and I am curious about the ranking algorithm used to rank webpages. It appears that Neeva is mixing its own search results with Bing, but I am not certain.

varelse 4y ago

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chairmanwow1 4y ago

I paid for neeva for something like 16 months and just cancelled last week. Load times for search were frequently >1s which seems ok the first few times, but after a while got annoying. Also ~20 esoteric programming queries a month would drive me to google. +10 attempts on Neeva and then same words on google instant hit. Their personalized search results are awesome. You can downrank spam or even certain sites you don’t like for you personally. Also your emails and docs will appear in search alongside everything on the web. Which is a really convenient feature. Their iOS app was plagued with regressions to the point for 2 months last year I couldn’t even use it. Tried for a long time, but despite all of Google’s failings around ads being 80% of results the premium offerings aren’t even close.

sashu123 4y ago

Perplexity.ai seems to give me better results for now

gandalfgeek 4y ago

Founded by the guy who used to to head up Google Ads engineering (Sridhar Ramaswamy). I know some might jump to conclusions just from that, but this EconTalk appearance by Ramaswamy goes into his motivations. He sounded like he had soured on the entire free-with-Ads model. https://www.econtalk.org/sridhar-ramaswamy-on-google-search-and-neeva/ https://www.econtalk.org/sridhar-ramaswamy-on-google-search-...

FpUser 4y ago

Unless AI can back the answer with the references I can verify I would not trust the results at all.

thefourthchime 4y ago
It does

woeirua 4y ago

Now that we’re getting a small preview of what ChatGPT would be like with sources cited, I’m ready to say that there is a 100% chance that this style of search will be sued into oblivion. Publishers already almost drove Google News to extinction when it was merely summing up headlines, can you imagine the outrage when those sites see their traffic drop off by 75%? This might be the Achilles heel of this entire approach to search. If you’re too successful you kill off the sites that you need to scrape for data.

moneywoes 4y ago
Wasn’t google news able to get away with it? Good point though
- skybrian 4y ago
  Yes, but they nerfed it by getting rid of article snippets entirely. There are just headlines now.
robbomacrae 4y ago
I'm very curious about the legal implications of all of this. With NeevaAI they appear to be citing content such as abcnews or businessinsider that is unlikely to have licensing that allows them to use it this way - but please correct me if I'm wrong. openAI and chatGPT refuses to provide sources even when asked saying its "sourced from general knowledge".. which might obfuscate it until someone can find clear terminology from their content being reused. And if we hackers build on top of tools such as openai how do we cover ourselves from any potential license abuse? Is it enough to have a YouTube style take down policy?
- woeirua 4y ago
  OpenAI will end up forced into a royalty licensing agreement with the underlying sites that they’re scraping. Every time they serve up a snippet from a site that site will get a fraction of a penny. As a result, OpenAI is going to have to find a way to monetize their search quickly. I’m just not sure how they would do that. I wouldn’t build my app directly on ChatGPT. They’re going to charge for it soon enough, and if the pricing is onerous your company will go belly up.

vinaypai 4y ago

I've been using Neeva for about a year now, and this is the feature that might get me to abandon them. The AI returns blatantly wrong results for fairly obvious search prompts. Q: new york california distance A: The distance between New York and California is 3,928 kilometers (2,441 miles). The driving distance is 2,866 miles (4,612 kilometers). The road distance is 269.5 miles. Q: fed interest rate A: The current Fed Funds Rate range is 0.75% - 1%. This is the result of a 50-basis-point rate hike at the Fed’s final 2022 meeting in December. This is the most significant fed rate hike over 17 years. The Fed's rate-setting committee hiked its benchmark rate by 0.5 percentage point on Wednesday, lifting its target rate into a range between 4.25% and 4.5%. The Federal Reserve System is the central banking system of the United States of America. This is all made worse by the fact that the AI results are presented with a distracting and pointless animation.

sam_goody 4y ago
You've intrigued me - what are the blatantly correct answers, and how do you know that these are wrong? I did a search on DDG for "new york california distance". The first result, https://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from-new-york-to-california https://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from-new-york-to-cal... has no "road distance", but claims the distance by plane is 2,441 miles. The second result, https://www.rome2rio.com/s/New-York/California https://www.rome2rio.com/s/New-York/California has no plane or car metrics but claims the distance by bus is 4733 km. Considering that the bus detours through Philly, Denver, Las Vegas, etc, the number you gave of 4.6K seems reasonable. The third result, https://www.distance.to/California/New-york https://www.distance.to/California/New-york matches both numbers Neeva gave.
fnbr 4y ago
this is why I don’t think google is threatened by LLMs. 1) this doesn’t do links, and 2) it has accuracy issues. I don’t understand the hysteria about how google will be replaced by ChatGPT.
- boloust 4y ago
  NeevaAI does provide source links.

jaimex2 4y ago

This is basically Siri

dang 4y ago

Related: Neeva: Ad-free, subscription-based search engine launches - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27676834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27676834 - June 2021 (27 comments) Neeva Announces Public Availability of Its Ads Free, Private Search Engine - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27675408 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27675408 - June 2021 (94 comments)

Thorentis 4y ago

Returns incorrect results regularly and convincingly. Should be worthless. Stop chasing anything that has "AI" in it.

savolai 4y ago

How do I actually access AI search on Neeva? Created account, all results are google-style, there does not seem to be a link to ai searc anywhere despite this announcement saying creating account suffices.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago

Bleh. I would take Google but actually working like it used to over any of these new-fangled LLM "improved" things. Just generates more nonsense to wade through to get to what I'm looking for.

andrewstuart 4y ago

Google had nothing but a search field. Neeva has a wall of text and a sign in barrier.

college_physics 4y ago

Maybe we have reached the end of "generic search"? Searching the web shopping for a product is distinctly different from asking various fact finding questions, which is different from searching for an error message from a library etc. Personally I would prefer if those distinct tasks were served by distinct providers, with different (and transparent) business models, using different levels of underlying human curation and/or other optimizations as appropriate for each sub-domain. E.g. for "facts" I would want a wikipedia+ type tool with a lot of curation. I am not looking for somebody to sell me something, just one answer that settles the fact. For code related stuff I would want primary sources only (hence a manual pre-selection of what is being indexed). There is obviously room for more commercially oriented product search and in this domain search could be an ad-sponsored marketplace / catalog, but without the atrocious personal profiling practices. The idea that it is "optimal" to have just one URL for interacting with the entire online universe no matter who your are and what you are after is a bit strange.

ricardo81 4y ago
Search bars in browsers can pretty much be the tool you describe, simply add the engines for each. I think part of the potential issue is the cognitive burden of pre-deciding which search engine you want to use for every search.
- college_physics 4y ago
  A simple dropdown menu in the search bar would do it for me. When coding, select option 1, when shoping option 2 etc. On desktops this could be even pre-selected for the user based on desktop activity. From the backend perspective this could be implemented with a generic url and passing parameters that engage with different parts of the search engine but the importance of the business model that supports the development of each search sub-domain should not be understated... Its hard to see how these different modes can coexist and flurish under one corporate structure