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Untraceable 3D-printed guns on the rise in Canada
- lampshades 4y agoBased. Hopefully they keep rising.
- olliecornelia 4y agoBased https://emojipedia.org/nerd-face/ https://emojipedia.org/nerd-face/
- deathofmurat 4y ago-- refresher on the guidelines - Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. -- https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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- nickpinkston 4y agoInterestingly, the guns keep getting easier to make at home, but the ammo is still too challenging, as handmade powder and primers are really unreliable / dangerous. Of course lots of people made ammo at home using off the shelf components, but if you have access to primers, powder, etc. you'd probably just smuggle the bullets themselves. Like Chris Rock said: "We need bullet control" - ie it's actually harder to make ammo than the guns themselves.
- HideousKojima 4y agoBlackpowder is dead simple to make yourself. Makes cycling semi-autos harder/less reliable and less powerful, and mesns a lot more cleaning, but if "bullet control" succeeded in the US I think we'd see a mass switch to blackpowder and electrical ignition replacing primers.
- notch656c 4y agoHome-made black powder cartridges aren't too bad. The caps are hardest to make but easy enough to hide as they are really fucking small and you only need 6 to fill a black powder revolver. A black powder revolver legit is good enough for self defense and almost as useful as a modern revolver if you maintain the load everyday. Also a good 'felon carry' as black powder revolvers are unregulated federally in US. Also little known but fun fact. Flintlocks aren't considered guns in Canada. You can buy the flintlock, and make the powder all without any scrutiny.
- MisterTea 4y agoA guy I used to work with came from a South American country where shotgun shells and ammo were at a premium, among other goods, which were common here in the USA. He setup a smuggling operation that was half legal: he put shot gun shell and bullet parts like casings, primers, and so on and hide them inside of appliances he was legitimately exporting second hand. He wound up making enough money to quit and run that operation full time. Haven't spoken to him in years though.
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- 908B64B197 4y agoWait until they discover what can be done with 50's machine shop. It's almost as if the guns themselves aren't the problem; it's the crimes committed with these that are.
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- m-p-3 4y agoRestrictions on firearms availability does reduce the amount of gun-related injuries or deaths though https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6283012/#s4title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6283012/#s4titl... > A variety of longitudinal studies describe the association between the simultaneous implementation of laws targeting multiple elements of regulations and firearm deaths. Despite their limitations, specifically on the identification of which laws are more likely to be effective, these studies inform on the potential synergistic effects, or the aggregated individual effects of multiple laws, when they are simultaneously implemented within a narrow time window. The Australian NFA provides a good illustration of this. Following the implementation of the NFA, a decline in firearm deaths and firearm suicides, as well as an absence of mass shootings, occurred.
- maxwell 4y agoHow do you explain all the guns and absence of gun violence in Vermont and Maine? Why is there so much gun violence in Illinois despite the strict gun control? Do you support gun control in Ukraine?
- ufmace 4y agoThe issue I have with such studies is they focus on "gun-related injuries or deaths". Has any study ever shown an overall decrease in deaths or injuries from any type of gun control legislation?
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- LinuxBender 4y agoMight this be the unintended consequence of banning the sales of handguns in Canada recently? Canadians have always been well armed but now there are more handguns moving from the U.S. into Canada and it seems like 3D printing would be the natural evolution of this path as border checks are increasing.
- grecy 4y agoHandguns have always been extremely tightly controlled in Canada. Even before the recent sales ban you couldn't have one at home unless it was locked away - it's not like you can have it in your bedside drawer. The only time you can transport it anywhere is to/from the gun range. In transit it must be locked away, and you have to get a permit to make that drive. Also note you're in big trouble if you get caught buying groceries on the way to/from the gun range and you have the handgun locked in your trunk. It has always been illegal to carry a handgun on your person, and you can't hunt with them either. Note: I have a "non-restricted" firearms license, which means shotguns & long rifles (bolt action, small magazines), and it's fairly straightforward to get the license to own those weapons. They dropped the "long gun registry" a few years back because stats show crimes are not committed with long guns. That means long guns are no longer registered, the government has no idea who owns what in terms of long guns. Handguns are a WHOLE different story.
- notch656c 4y agoIf someone doesn't drive in the US their chance of being caught with a handgun is basically zero unless they pull it out (which they shouldn't be doing unless their life is in danger and legal issues are the least of their worries). I wonder how often pedestrians/passengers get patted down in Canada.
- pseudo0 4y agoThe US/Canada border is incredibly porous. There is so much area to cover, along with numerous communities that practically sit on top of the border, native reservations, and bodies of water. Any attempt to seriously crack down on smuggling would be prohibitively expensive and politically unpalatable. 3d printing is advancing among enthusiasts, but when it comes to the black market, illegal importation from the US is still by far the easiest and cheapest option.
- peepeepoopoo3 4y agoThe choice of language around firearms is always interesting. Instead of using a descriptive term like "homebuilt firearms", communications on this topic use an editorialized description like "ghost guns".
- piyh 4y agoOne man's common sense gun control is another man's unconditional and ineffective gun grab. Probably doesn't help when Cody Wilson is selling a CNC called the Ghost Gunner.
- maxwell 4y agoI dismiss any argument that appeals to "common sense." It has no logical meaning.
- sschueller 4y agoGhost just means they were not made by a registered gun maker? Aren't many guns in the US untraceable even though they have serial numbers because of the lack of a proper database? So in effect also ghost guns?
- kube-system 4y agoThere are paper records for all dealers sales in the US, they're just not electronic. So they are traceable, it just requires manual human effort to pick up telephones and read paperwork out of a filing cabinet. Edit: although, the cheapest and easiest way for a criminal to get an "untraceable" gun in the US is probably to bust out the window of a pickup truck, steal the gun out of the glove box, and file off the serial number.
- notch656c 4y ago> and file off the serial number. Which would be dumb, because the serial number can easily be recovered in a lab and is an easy 10 years in jail and way to get feds to pick up the case.
- recuter 4y agoYou can make an untraceable deadly weapon with <$1 of bowstring and a random piece of timber, no 3d printer required. Although this is by far my favorite method of killing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y
- lifeisstillgood 4y agoOk that is, by far, the most incredible, weird, brilliant, cannot stop watching piece of cinema / art / just how much effort did you put into a throw away joke ... I mean they actually had a divemaster for an underwater sequence, ... just brilliant :-) Thank you for introducing me to this. I hope to pay it forward.
- samwillis 4y agoAt first is was worried, anyone who has a "favourite method of killing" is slightly scary. But that is brilliant!
- recuter 4y agoI have a sibling and his murder by this method has been ongoing ever since we came across the video.
- karaterobot 4y agoThe proliferation of 3D printed firearms completely changed my opinion on gun control a few years ago. I used to think that getting rid of guns was a great first step. But, it seems like it's not really feasible to do that. Now my opinion is that maybe it should be the last step, after addressing the causes of gun death (suicide and the drug war are at the top of the list). But at that point, if we'd actually fixed those problems, I wonder if there would be much of a pressing need to get rid of guns at all.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y agoAbsolutely. The people buying illicit weapons need the means and motivation to do it, both of which stem from the black market for drugs.
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoEven if you solved that, you'd still have problems with knives (you can't outlaw kitchen knives), homemade explosives, sticks, screwdrivers, acid, etc. Mental health, crime, and drugs (also, again crime related to those), and you've solved most of the problems. Just legalizing some drugs would probably solve more than half of the issues in some places.
- closewith 4y agoWatching Americans try to justify gun culture and why it isn't the real problem is always baffling to me. I do wonder if you're expressing genuinely held beliefs or if your head is wilfully in the sand.
- amalgamated_inc 4y agoLol watching non-Americans and their Stockholm syndrome about their governments taking their rights away is always amusing to me. If you don't have a gun you're not a citizen, you're a subject.
- yellowapple 4y agoThe irony of your "head is willfully in the sand" remark in the context of an ever-widening hole in the effectiveness of gun control is thick enough to spread on toast. "Gun culture" (whatever that actually means) is not the problem. The fact that the US is the least-developed of the "developed" world is the problem. The fact American income disparity and mental health are both deteriorating at a rapid pace is the problem. People kill each other (or, more commonly, themselves) here in the US - with or without guns - because they're broke, stressed the fuck out, and so desperate for any semblance of relief that they're driven to either put themselves out of the misery our capitalist system has thrust upon them or else lash out at the rest of the very society disenfranchising them.
- himinlomax 4y agoIn Europe, the regulated part of the gun is typically the high pressure components, i.e. the barrel and bolt. In the US and I guess Canada, it's the receiver. The thing is, machining the former is much more difficult and involved than printing / cutting / grinding / assembling the latter — unless you're making a single use weapon, in which case any old steel tube of the right diameter will do anyway. The problem is not 3D printed guns, it's inadequate regulation.
- closewith 4y agoFollowing the introduction of the Firearms Directive, pretty much every part of a firearm is regulates in the EU: > For the purposes of this Directive, “part” shall mean any element or replacement element specifically designed for a firearm and essential to its operation, including a barrel, frame or receiver, slide or cylinder, bolt or breech block, and any device designed or adapted to diminish the sound caused by firing a firearm.
- samwillis 4y agoThe 3D printed gun debate and how it applies to gun control misses a few important things. - Most countries that have gun control, have strict control of ammunition. It may be possible to 3d print a "gun", but it is going to be hard to find ammunition for it, unless you go the home made route for that too. - Domestic or hobbyist 3d printing is not going to produce a particularly strong gun, it's most likely going to only work once or twice before it blows itself apart. There is a good chance the person using it will significantly hurt themselves. - They will have very poor accuracy, it won't be possible to rifle the barrel on a 3d printed gun in a way that will spin the projectile. - You don't need 3d printing to make a rudimentary gun, one can be fabricated relatively easily by a somewhat competent DIYer in a home workshop. It would probably be better than a 3d printed one too. The point is, the arguments around 3d printed guns are mostly media driven, if someone is intent on hurting someone else, they will find a way to do it. 3d printing or the availability of designs is not enabling that.
- notch656c 4y agoSee "ButWhatAboutAmmo" by IvanTheTroll et al. Places where people are well enough off to afford 3d printers haev already found ways around the ammo issue. >it's most likely going to only work once or twice before it blows itself apar LMAO see FGC-9. >it won't be possible to rifle the barrel on a 3d printed gun in a way that will spin the projectile. But it is possible to 3d print a mandrel for ECM machining, in a way that basically anyone can easily rifle for very low cost. See ECM machining guide as part of FGC-9 build. This sounds complicated but in practice very simple, print the part and attach a pipe along with pumped water/electricity and you get very nice accurate rifling tested to perform about as well as glock oem barrel. >It would probably be better than a 3d printed one too. Not typically at least using the most popular expedient arms manuals. The magazine and feeding typically performs much poorer than say modern 3d printed like FGC-9. Repeatable in-tolerance magazines/feeding have always been the weak point of most home machine shop made stuff and 3d printing has mostly solved that problem.
- eindiran 4y agoEvery one of your points is extremely wrong, except the first. We don't live in 2014, and we aren't talking about the Liberator anymore. Electrochemical machining means that anyone can rifle a barrel in their closet, there are tons of designs that are fully DIY without any metalworking capabilities. The glass filled nylon polymers people are using now are equivalent to many of the polymers used in industry. The last moat truly is ammunition and frankly that is a matter of time.
- saboot 4y agoI've said it before, but this isn't stopping with guns. One fallout of the availability of 3D printing is the ability of anyone to construct high precision parts, specifically ones needed for weapons. If AQ Khan was still operating today I'm certain this would have been a large component of his operation.
- nradov 4y ago3D printing doesn't significantly reduce the costs for building and operating nuclear enrichment systems. It's a marginal difference at most.
- saboot 4y agoThe costs aren't the issue, it's circumventing export control laws, allowing one to make precison parts on their own. This report details real world examples of 3d printing being used in several weapon systems https://nonproliferation.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/NDS_Report_1908_WMD_AM_2019.pdf https://nonproliferation.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/NDS_...
- xwdv 4y agoThe cool thing about 3D printed guns is they don’t have to look like conventional guns. I saw someone make a gun that was like a little box with a hole in it.
- Ancapistani 4y agoFWIW, that's illegal in the US by default. You have to file an ATF Form 1, pay the $5 tax under the NFA's "Any Other Weapon" classification, and wait months for approval before manufacturing one.
- Mizza 4y agoI've been following this community out of general curiosity since its inception, and I have to say that they're hackers in the purest form. Clever, technical, collaborative, playful, ideological, subversive. There are amazing technical accomplishments happening regularly over there. Every time the topic comes up, you'll see the same comments you saw a decade ago - you'll blow your hand off, you can mill something better, how is this any different than a Home Depot slamfire - but those commenters haven't been keeping up with developments. It's an inevitable shame that they're being misused for violent crimes, though, but I don't think you can ever put this cat back in the bag.
- ohCh6zos 4y agoA lot of technology is used to surveil and oppress us. It is nice to see a story that shows technology can also liberate.
- Buxato 4y ago""Anyone can go online, they can purchase a computer, a laptop.… They can buy [a 3D printer] for $300 and now they're printing firearms," said acting Staff Sgt. Lawson, with the Calgary police."" Total non sense. You could only do the polymer housing, not the most important things, aka all the metal interior parts (if you want that shots more than once).
- mrozbarry 4y agoI think some people have already hit the nail on the head, but I wanted to chime in with a few thoughts. There have been several news stories spun to make it seem like Canada needs more gun control. I don't know if that actually solves anything, it just forces the sales of weapons underground. Canada is already pretty restricted with guns (at least in comparison with the US), with the government wanting more and more restrictions. The problem is restrictions hurt enthusiasts who go through the proper channels, and force bad actors to use more ingenious/underground methods of obtaining weapons. This article doesn't even mention how/why the 3d printed firearms were seized, but one thing appears clear, the "100" is actually various smaller police confiscations. One thing is clear, though; this article's main goal is to promote removing rights of law abiding citizens, both with firearms enthusiasts, and potentially 3d printing enthusiasts.