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Why are antennas popping up over the Salt Lake City foothills?
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoSLC's recreational trails manager says it might be related to cryptocurrency. This sounds like the Helium crypto network, which is an IoT network offering node owners payment in cryptocurrency, which has plummeted in value ($55.22 in Nov 2021, $1.73 today).
- downrightmike 4y agoI disagree, this sounds _exactly_ like what the drug cartels have been doing in Mexico for years. They build their own network so they can bypass the government. It makes more sense that they are connecting their operations further up north given the amount of security upgrades that the USA has been doing recently. One Example: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-telecoms-cartels-specialreport/special-report-drug-cartel-narco-antennas-make-life-dangerous-for-mexicos-cell-tower-repairmen-idUSKCN24G1DN https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-telecoms-cartels-s... "Crypto" is just a buzzword that people who don't understand tech jump to as a kneejerk reaction.
- mikeyouse 4y agoThere would be no reason for cartels to establish parallel cellular networks in Salt Lake City of all places.. and these devices don't sound remotely like what the cartels were doing - you need backhaul to have a cell site - these are remote mesh wifi devices. All of the cartel ones are 'parasitic' where they use the actual cell site's hardware to provide a standalone antenna.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y agoThe Mexican cartels use actual cell/mobile equipment, and have kidnapped engineers from South Texas to gain additional technical knowledge. Also, these areas surround SLC are not territory they're trying to control in the same way. What utility would there be in this network vs simply using encrypted communication over the internet? On the other hand, solar powered mining with just good enough radios to do C2 and send back any hashes found would be an exact match to this scale of equipment.
- Manuel_D 4y agoBut why not just install solar panels on your house? Or legally, in some remote property? On top of the mountain is probably one of the most expensive places to deploy infrastructure. The elevation is almost certainly to provide radio reception coverage.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y agoThere's networks like Helium that are based around LoraWAN mesh IoT miners. Assuming there's some financial advantage to having maximal connectivity to other miners, putting a few on the mountains above a major metro area seems like a very straightforward idea.
- boring_twenties 4y agoIt's not above a major metro area though, it's above Salt Lake City.
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoThe Salt Lake City Metropolitan Statistical Area is #24 as ranked by population, so it depends what one would consider "major". To me, top 25 seems major, but to someone else top 20 would be major. I don't think "major" in the context of metro areas is an official term.
- Retric 4y agoI’ve heard major metro area as roughly being top 100 cities in the world which Salt Lake City is nowhere close to. If anything Salt Lake seems about average size for a city, it’s just located in the middle of nowhere which makes it seem more important. This is also why they need this kind of backup communication system so close to the city.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
- metadat 4y agoThe drug angle doesn't make much sense in Utah. This State trends towards prescription drug abuse [0] [1], and aggressively prosecutes drug offenses to the max. How could antennas be relevant? [0] https://www.deseret.com/2008/1/31/20067144/happy-valley-delves-into-drug-abuse-in-utah https://www.deseret.com/2008/1/31/20067144/happy-valley-delv... [1] https://imdb.com/title/tt1263682/ https://imdb.com/title/tt1263682/
- iforgotpassword 4y agoWeren't they at least installing their stuff on existing towers etc to make it less obvious? Planting big solar panels into the landscape must be the stupidest attempt at creating a secret cell network...
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoWhat you say sounds possible and plausible, although I would not immediately discount crypto, as the Helium map does show some cells in unpopulated areas in the hills surrounding the SLC metro. They should be able to eliminate Helium as the culprit if they're able to inspect what's in the box, as Helium needs a Helium-sanctioned box, from my understanding.
- Manuel_D 4y agoWhat does this provide that an encrypted cellphone messenger app does not? I'm sure they have the know how to acquire SIMs through intermediaries to remain anonymous. That's probably a lot less suspicious than setting up random radio towers, in fact this story is evidence of that. Presumably self-operated infrastructure could expand comms to remote areas that don't normally have cell service. They makes sense in stretches of the southern border. But right outside salt lake city is covered by cell access.
- mike_d 4y agoCell phones are basically locator beacons for the police. The cartels know this. It's not worth discussing the specifics in the open, but the investigative techniques have gotten good enough that even "anonymous" SIM cards don't buy you anything.
- Manuel_D 4y agoA radio is inherently a locator beacon. Radio direction finding has been a cornerstone of signals intelligence for over a century. A cell phone sending encrypted messages over Signal or WhatsApp is way less suspicious than a radio mysteriously appearing on a hill. Just get a patsy to buy a normal sim card - not an "anonymous sim card" - I'm sure cartels are easily able to do this.
- mike_d 4y agoSure but one is inherently more difficult (radio direction finding) than the other (having your phone constantly beacon to a dense network of towers). What I was alluding to is when you have full access to the cellular network, there are other indicators that can be used to task tracking other than just the SIM card. You don't need to know that phone X is person Y, you just need to know that phone X fits the criteria of how a drug mule operates.
- Manuel_D 4y ago> you just need to know that phone X fits the criteria of how a drug mule operates. And my point is that this is way, way harder than looking out the window and noticing a radio tower perched on a hilltop that wasn't there before. It's far more clandestine to obtain security through obscurity even if it means operating in a network controlled by the authorities. Encrypted traffic looks like any other encrypted traffic. There's little to make a drug dealer stand out from other cell phone traffic, unless they're communicating over cleartext.
- ricardo81 4y agoIf they keep popping up after these initial ones are taken down, I guess that's leads towards the idea of whoever is doing it has a big incentive to do it. Would think that crypto would have too long a payback esp if the equipment keeps disappearing.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- runjake 4y agoThese units are far too small and low-powered to be cartel cell towers. The towers they're building in Mexico are more or less normal towers, supplemented by COW trailers (larger units with generator+solar). Cartels in CONUS are typically using regular cell and satellite phones. Ostensibly, the NSA and the various military "Activities" aren't paying attention to CONUS communications, unless it's near the border. There isn't enough information in the article to reasonably tell what they're designed for. If someone wants to post actual photos of the hardware, that would be swell.
- Kiro 4y ago> "Crypto" is just a buzzword that people who don't understand tech jump to as a kneejerk reaction. Very strange thing to say when the parent explained exactly why this could be crypto and why it's plausible. Do you know how Helium works? Do a Google Image Search on "helium crypto solar power" and you will see many devices that look like that.
- giantg2 4y agoI would think that if it was organized crime, the feds would be all over it already. Even stuff like pirate radio gets tracked and shutdown fairly quickly. I'd imagine the FBI still has significant sigint ops, even if they might be less extensive than during the cold war.
- HomeLine 4y agoWouldn’t their best course of action be to locate the towers, hack into them, and continue to allow them to operate?
- giantg2 4y agoYes, but if they were taking that action, they would have instructed the public land officials on a cover story, not allowing them to create a mystery out of and open those boxes.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y agoImagining movie style capers like this is emotionally engaging but pretty distant from the reality of these situations. Assuming you can put lightning into a bottle is extremely dangerous. Most police work involves a lot of methodical boring stuff, not a brilliant technical deception.
- giantg2 4y agoSo the "hack into them" part isn't quite right. But they certainly do intercept and analyze various signals. Which is generally the boring and tedious part. But right or wrong, it is sort of the standard play for the feds to let some criminal activity continue to gather additonal intel.
- bastawhiz 4y agoWhich drug cartels are operating out of public lands in Utah? How did they get there? How has nobody noticed them? Why do drug cartels have interest in the snowy peaks of the SLC foothills of all places? Why are they just in the foothills and not checks notes all the way through Arizona to Mexico?
- walrus01 4y agoA cartel land mobile radio or cellular setup would be considerably more power hungry than this.
- JKCalhoun 4y agoI may be stereotyping, but in my experience there is a strong ham community within the LDS Church. My first reaction was to assume something ham related, not drug cartel.
- geocrasher 4y agoProfiling isn't stereotyping, but cancel culture seems to think it is. I'm not LDS but I didn't think it offensive. I am an amateur radio operator however, and I think it likely if for no other reason than the fact that there's a disproportionally large crossover in demographics between the two groups. In fact, as a young adult I worked at a commercial and ham radio shop that was owned by LDS folks.
- twothamendment 4y agoHam radio doesn't need to litter the area with these little setups. The Wasatch front already has a bunch of strong mountain top repeaters, some can even be tied together. Check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Intertie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Intertie
- kawfey 4y agoIME/O, hams and LDS alike tend to go above board when setting up infrastructure like this, and I feel they'd be quite public about their existence. Some ham radio repeaters atop high-rise buildings I know of are kind of sketchy (such as when someone in the local radio club makes friendly with building engineers/management so they don't have to pay commercial leasing fees or go through HOA baloney, and will sometimes keep the location a secret to avoid attention), but the vast majority are listed on publicly available databases like RepeaterBook, ARTSCIPUB, RFinder, ARRL Repeater Directory, and/or each state's repeater coordination directory, or the AREDN mesh directory, or other ham radio WAN sites. Since SLC is still totally clueless as to who put these up, it rules out LDS Hams for me.
- pinkcan 4y agomeh, you're writing comes of as defensive if you still have money tied up in crypto you can still try and sell it
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- patchorang 4y agoI don’t understand why the cartel would put these in such an obvious location. (But I also don’t understand why anyone would…) They seem to be in obvious, high traffic areas. The one mentioned in the video is a short hike from the Utah capitol building. If you hike at all and live in salt lake, this is where you go. Especially in the winter. It seems like they were asking to be found. It’s certainly less in the winter, but in the summer hundreds of people would hike or bike past this everyday.
- stickfigure 4y agoYou might be on to something. I hear the Utah drug cartels are responsible for all the beheadings plaguing Salt Lake City.
- kemotep 4y agoWhat beheadings have happen in Salt Lake City recently? All I can find is an incident that happened in Arches National Park but that one was an accident with a gate not an assault by someone involved in gang activity.
- Zigurd 4y agoYou cannot power more than a femtocell with a solar panel, and these are too far out in wilderness with no wired backhaul to be a plausible mobile mobile network. In parts of Mexico you can take over a house and a power source to put up a real cell site.
- amelius 4y agoOr a new kind of crypto based on Proof of Solar energy collection?
- moloch-hai 4y agoProof of received and delivered packets.
- RF_Savage 4y agoWhich would be Helium (LoRa IoT) or Althea (WiFimesh and 5G cellular) for example.
- ThatPlayer 4y agoI believe Helium does require internet access rather than just working as an offline relay. How's the 4G in those locations? The video shows only one antenna too.
- vorpalhex 4y agoYou can do either. Non-internet Helium installs are less profitable though, if I understand their structure.
- FL410 4y agoIt is almost definitely this. Plenty of discussion about exactly this thing if you look into the Helium subreddits/discord etc.
- walrus01 4y agoAnecdotally, rooftop telecom site operators, tower owners and WISPs have been approached by "helium" miner people for several years now, they're almost universally laughed at as a non plausible business plan and revenue source.
- vorpalhex 4y agoSomewhere in there is a gem of a good idea. Incentivize operators of a mesh network where you can buy credits to get data on the mesh. Like I can see the concept and in it's raw form it's exciting. Helium though got way overpriced and insane with the crypto bubble. Maybe they can rectify it and turn sane? I'd love a world where all this deployed helium hardware isn't trash.
- walrus01 4y agoLoRA as a method to implement serial bridges over very narrow channels and low RSL/CINR rates in radio is fine. LoRAWAN and similar are fine. Lots of possible applications. The crypto part is what's truly bizarre. I don't know how anyone who has spent any time researching bulk-data-service plans for embedded multi-band cat1 LTE radios (a few bucks a month from Verizon or Tmobile per radio) would think that a less reliable, vastly less-covered-area "helium" thing would be something you could rely on for actual traffic to/from your equipment.
- RF_Savage 4y agoThey looked at The Things Network and figured that they could do better by paying node operators in their own funbux as an incentive to host nodes. It worked, just that the customers did not materialize.
- klinquist 4y agoI, as an airbnb owner, was approached by someone wanting to give me a "router to put in my window for IoT sensors." Didn't take me long to figure out it was Helium.
- vorpalhex 4y agoIs Helium still alive? I've seen a _lot_ of their used equipment pop up for sale on ebay.
- alexeldeib 4y agoI have the same question. Seems like the crash hit them hard and last I heard they were rebasing (n.b., not using this in a technical meaning) on top of Solana. I also heard a lot of rumors it was a pump/dump or pyramid type scheme, but I haven’t seen proof of that, only if premining (which is awfully scammy to be fair). Anyone have better details?
- palata 4y agoA good first approximation with anything using cryptocurrencies is that it is a scam.
- RF_Savage 4y agoThere apparently never really ware that many paying customers using Helium's network, so the payouts ware comming from people paying the data credit fees to have their miner listed and accepted to the network. The moment the network stops expanding, the demand for HNT to pay for datacredits will be gone. https://cointelegraph.com/news/critique-on-helium-s-6-5k-monthly-revenue-causes-a-stir https://cointelegraph.com/news/critique-on-helium-s-6-5k-mon... And now that seems to have happened.
- jacktribe 4y agoIn theory it sounds like a reasonable explanation, but Helium is underperforming so much, that I doubt anyone would make the investment at this point.
- wkat4242 4y agoAlso, Helium payouts seem to be based on amount of clients in a zone, which would make this pretty pointless. Helium hype really makes it difficult for other real IoT networks to operate also, like The Things Network, the operators of which do it for free (including myself). Why does everything have to be a moneymaker?
- hanniabu 4y ago> Why does everything have to be a moneymaker? Translation: "Why does everything need to be sustainable? Can't we just keep grifting off of people providing a service for free?" I always see comments here about open source projects needing better funding mechanisms. Crypto solves this but everyone scoffs at it because crypto has become some boogey man word that gets shunned mostly because of Bitcoin being first with no utility and wasteful energy and ignores any progress made in the space.
- LordDragonfang 4y agoHow does cryptocurrency solve any of the funding issues in open source, in ways that could not be achieved with traditional currency?
- astrange 4y agoThe problem is that it’s actually less motivating to get paid a small amount than it is to get paid nothing. So it probably feels bad to put up a node that’s rarely used even though, when it does get used, it’s especially appreciated. (Bad ideas in this space: GRCoin which pays you for folding@home but can never actually pay the power costs, Payver which supposedly paid for capturing road images while driving but ended up giving like $2/year.)
- Overtonwindow 4y agoSo...free solar panels?
- RajT88 4y agoExactly my thought. I wish they were popping up near me!
- kotaKat 4y agoAnd a free Linux SBC with an onboard data connection! :)
- Overtonwindow 4y ago"Lord I've seen what you've done for other people, and I want that for me too!"
- danesparza 4y agoYeah -- they looked nice, too.
- jimjimjim 4y agoyes. you would be doing the country a favor by removing this litter. e.g https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/why-is-utah-getting-trashed/ https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/why-is-utah-getting-tra...
- walrus01 4y agoThe PV setup is too small/weak to support an very cheap and basic off grid WISP setup, even a very basic one, one small panel of that size won't handle the mid winter cumulative kWh in one month from even two small PTP 5 GHz band 5W load radios and one 5W Mikrotik router (15W 24x7 for a month). Whatever it is has to be very low power or spend a lot of time in sleep mode.
- RajT88 4y agoI was just mulling over the other day that this sort of thing at smaller scale would be a neat idea for guerilla file sharing to work around copyright infringement bots on torrent networks. Hope on a wifi access point downtown, pull some movies down while you're waiting for your train.
- iforgotpassword 4y agofreifunk.net :-)
- green-salt 4y agoLooks fun, but its on the other side of a continent and ocean for me to participate in.
- RF_Savage 4y agoNYC mesh is on the same continent and Rhizomatica down south.
- ed25519FUUU 4y agoWhy not just get a vpn rather than create overly complicated and expensive hardware installations?
- inkcapmushroom 4y agoBecause setting up your own covert network to bypass institutional bots is cyberpunk AF.
- Karawebnetwork 4y agoI find it weird that they jump right to crypto. Couldn't it be something else? Some projects come to mind like https://www.blitzortung.org/en/cover_your_area.php https://www.blitzortung.org/en/cover_your_area.php or the one where people have boxes that track gravitional waves. Did I miss something that hinted at crypto in the article?
- mjfl 4y agoor perhaps a means to control hobbyist drones at a longer range...
- DueDilligence 4y ago.. exactly. My brother is an ARC-GIS engineer with BLM and the have a fleet of drones that tie into SAT info.
- bcraven 4y agoFinal paragraph: "Fonarow pointed out that cryptocurrency is just one idea the city has heard. Trail officials may learn more once the locked boxes are opened."
- throitallaway 4y ago> once the locked boxes are opened Find someone with a big hammer or drill?
- babypuncher 4y agoThey want to open these boxes in a way that minimizes the risk of destroying any evidence they contain.
- giantg2 4y agoOr good at locksport
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
- madengr 4y ago[dead]
- rolph 4y agoP.O.W.D.E.R https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Ydb0rJbFk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Ydb0rJbFk https://advancedwireless.org/salt-lake-city/#Map https://advancedwireless.org/salt-lake-city/#Map https://powderwireless.net/ https://powderwireless.net/
- themodelplumber 4y ago> 8 rooftop base stations with multiple SDRs and 8 fixed endpoints at ground level > 1 rooftop programmable massive MIMO array and multiple dedicated UE devices > 6 base stations on light poles with multiple SDRs each – coming in late 2022 Interesting project, but there's no mountain location here and the antennas look more like 2m 1/2 wave from the video...
- rolph 4y agoim curious as to how these [black] boxes relate to the project, if at all. is it part of it, is it someone taking advantage of it, is it unrelated?
- DueDilligence 4y ago.. this makes sense - except that project is well-known to the BLM and other folks. My brother is a ARC-GIS engineer for the BLM division and he confirmed the equipment in POWDER is registered with them, the state and the FTC.
- rolph 4y agothis project has DOD involvement, it may be the case that someone is shy about it, because government project, or oops, i didnt realize anyone would care. https://advancedwireless.org/new-2-7m-pawr-project-funded-by-the-us-department-of-defense-will-test-ai-driven-spectrum-sharing-optimization-in-a-5g-nr-network/ https://advancedwireless.org/new-2-7m-pawr-project-funded-by...
- ed25519FUUU 4y ago
- mikeyouse 4y agoHa - for all of you "why blame crypto" commenters - this dude looks like the prime suspect based on "helium miner remote Utah" Google searches: https://gristleking.com/helium-deployed-the-network-in-action/ https://gristleking.com/helium-deployed-the-network-in-actio... His setup looks remarkably similar to what the rangers took down and he's got several videos placing Helium miners or whatever they use on remote peaks in Utah. I suspect the "authorities say it may be related to Crypto" line was just an expert couching their highly confident assessment as a CYA, but it seems to be obviously crypto.
- closewith 4y agoGood find.
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoOhmygosh... Good find! His images look very similar to those in the news report!
- Octokiddie 4y agoThe actual application appears to be tracking paragliders. Helium just provides the internet hotspot: > Over the course of a week, supported by Tommy and Ryan at Lonestar Tracking, Matthew at Digital Matter, Travis at Helium, and Jeremy C (@jerm on Discord), I deployed 2 off-grid Helium Hotspots high in the mountains of Utah (one at over 8,000′ and one above 11,000′) to track 30+ paragliders as they flew during the annual Red Rocks Fly In as well as raced during the inaugural X Red Rocks Hike & Fly race. This explains why somebody would want a hotspot in such a remote, high location. The race itself is kind of wild: https://xredrocks.com/ https://xredrocks.com/ From the Rules page: > The task is to reach the control and turn-points defined by the Race Committee every day for three days as quickly as possible traveling only by paraglider or on foot. I imagine you'd want good tracking data to get an idea of where you're going.
- mikeyouse 4y agoThat seems plausible for that one specific setup - but it's obvious that all of these weird crypto grifters were trying to make money by deploying in remote spots with long range connections to capture the rewards.. there aren't very many paraglider canyons and there are far more of these in the foothills.
- bottlepalm 4y agoVery strange this would be reported without some very basic/obvious information. Like the data/frequencies transmitted in/out of the boxes. That should narrow down potential suspects substantially.
- DueDilligence 4y ago.. from a fellow DarkNetizen: ".. we all concur it's either one of the 2 major w coast drug cartels since SLC is smack in the middle of a 'major flight trade route' tho SLC is not a major market in and of itself. A crypto repeater network makes sense, but why SLC? The other assertion is a DOD project since BLM and other vast expanses of open lands are popular test grounds for new comm tech. I believe it's the latter."
- ElfinTrousers 4y agoI'm guessing if it were DOD or someone else official, they'd have a cover for just such an occasion. They'd place those things in conjunction with, for example, a local university's earth sciences department, and say they're weather stations.
- black_puppydog 4y agoWow, whether or not this is helium... I just learned about this thing and I'm like "okay, so you have LoRaWAN and blockchains and yes I can see how you could combine these together but what's the effin point? Don't get me wrong, I get that some people want to do stuff just for the fun of it and IMHO that's humanity at its best. But this just looks like "new tech -> magic happens -> profit" 0_o
- slicktux 4y agoIt’s really about the “crypto hype” and that’s really the only incentive behind most of these helium hot spots… They are expensive and the return is slow. Really nice idea in the grand scheme of things but it’s not DIY friendly network…well it is but if you want to send data via the helium network you MUST pay per message using the helium currency; that and a lot of these hotspots piggy back of internet…sadly not completely decentralized.
- cozzyd 4y agoIt's annoying if you use LoRa components for something else since they are more likely to be out of stock
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- petre 4y agoToo bad you don't have enough scrap metal collectors. Beats any cryptocurrency. This network wouldn't resist a week in my country.
- walrus01 4y agoYou're not wrong in being puzzled by why people would try to glue LoraWAN stuff to "blockchain" BS, that's been pretty much the reaction of everyone who works professionally in wireless telecom industry/applications. Helium is (was) yet another pump and dump cryptocoin hype train.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
- Octokiddie 4y agoFrom another thread, the actual application appears to be something called a "hike and fly race": > The Global Rescue XRedRocks is a premiere hike and fly race in North America, organized in a similar way to the Eigertour, Vercofly and DolomitiSuperfly- multi-day hike and fly events that take participants into magnificent mountains to see what they’re made of when we pair back free-flight to it’s most raw and exciting form. Travel is only allowed by wing or on foot. There are no supporters. ... https://xredrocks.com https://xredrocks.com The devices appear to be internet hotspots, possibly powered by the Helium network: https://gristleking.com/helium-deployed-the-network-in-action/ https://gristleking.com/helium-deployed-the-network-in-actio... This could explain why you'd want to put a hotspot at the top of a mountain: to provide real-time tracking of paragliders during the competition. The hotspots in the local news clip could be put there either for real-time telemetry during the competition or for training.
- themodelplumber 4y agoWhy would an internet hotspot use what looks like a 2m half-wave antenna? Is there also some built-in 2m repeater functionality?
- Manuel_D 4y agoYou can send digital packets over radio. 2 meter band can handle internet equivalent to dial-up speeds if reception is good enough.
- aliqot 4y agoInteresting, thanks. I'd always been under the impression (maybe old folklore) that encryption wasn't allowed over some bands. .. Now that I type it out, this is probably a band that has no rule for this.
- DrewADesign 4y agoEven if so, I can't imagine that anyone anonymously bolting radio equipment onto public property cares about usage rules.
- scottpiper 4y agoI live in SLC, and I saw one of these show up over a year ago. The location was about here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/40%C2%B047'58.0%22N+111%C2%B051'53.8%22W/@40.799445,-111.8654912,222 https://www.google.com/maps/place/40%C2%B047'58.0%22N+111%C2... It was a very well built setup that I assumed (as did everyone) that it was put there by the gov in some capacity, such as for weather observations. It wasn't hidden or hard to find by any means and on a fairly popular trail. I would bet during nice summer weather a few hundred people per week walked past it.
- wang_li 4y agoThe High-Vis vest effect.
- VWWHFSfQ 4y agoI wouldn't be surprised if it was somehow related to Aereo [1][2]. My understanding is they were mostly working out of Utah. Edit: For those unfamiliar, they set up an operation to re-broadcast (free) OTA TV broadcasts out-of-territory over the internet for a subscription fee. They got shut down after a supreme court decision. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aereo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aereo [2] https://www.ksl.com/article/28788962/utah-judge-halts-operations-of-tv-content-provider-aereo https://www.ksl.com/article/28788962/utah-judge-halts-operat...
- happyopossum 4y agoThis is nothing like Aereo equipment, nor would there be any reason for Aereo to put their equipment on mountaintops and ridge lines on public land...
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoNo, I can confidently say it's not. They'd need significant wired bandwidth to the node. Plus the mountain top location would not provide any advantage over almost any other lower elevation location in the metro.
- 71a54xd 4y agoCan't wait to see how these start to get camouflaged! I doubt it's a helium miner, the project is dead and now a known scam.
- kenniskrag 4y agoFanet works over loraWan and here are the specs: https://github.com/3s1d/fanet-stm32 https://github.com/3s1d/fanet-stm32
- mihaaly 4y ago- We do not know what it is and for what, it just stands there, so we must destroy it! Nice! : /
- googlryas 4y agoWell, yes. You can't just erect stuff on public land willy nilly.
- mihaaly 4y agoRight, right, people are not supposed to build a dam or a T-shirt factory wherever they please but a small device left in the middle of nowhere difficult to find and comprehend, out of the way and sight literally for everyone, well, next time I will think twice if I make a small rock formation or a tent made of branches against rain in a nice hidden spot without proper signed permission from the authorities, erected on public land.
- InCityDreams 4y ago>well, next time I will think twice if I make a small rock formation or a tent made of branches against rain in a nice hidden spot "Leave nature as you found it"? Making shelter seems fair enough, but those fucking rock 'formations' are just narcissistic environment destroyers.
- mihaaly 4y ago> environment destroyers ...ok. The shelter erected may sound fair enough only before knowing that it has no permission! Must not be acceptable without the proper paperwork for a sensible person.
- eyelidlessness 4y agoPlease keep making little rock formations unless it’s explicitly verboten. I love seeing them, they’re delightful little surprises even on the roadside on interstate road trips. Please also continue to shelter yourself as needed, again unless your presence is explicitly verboten, or if you just need to survive. Those are excellent examples of good use of public land, and mostly explicitly verboten is key. Otherwise the land is for your use the same as it is for anyone else.
- poorman 4y agoMost likely Helium hotspots
- Breefield 4y agoI betcha it's https://gristleking.com https://gristleking.com, he's been advocating for paragliders to use LoRaWAN for a tertiary emergency communications network (primary being Garmin's Iridium network, then cell or perhaps iOS 14's GPS SOS). The idea is to have multiple means of calling for help + tracking location when free-flying.
- ed25519FUUU 4y agoSo he accomplishes it by covertly installing thousands of dollars of hardware on PUBLIC land and opening himself up to thousands more dollars in recovery fees? Not likely.
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoHe might be at one of the higher levels on the Helium "pyramid" (sorry-- couldn't think of a better term). A year ago, that may have meant significant earnings.
- wkat4242 4y agoI don't think iOS's SOS feature is feasible from a paraglider. You have to point it at a specific direction for a while to get a message out. An air band radio at 121.500 (emergency frequency) would make more sense (with the required permits of course) InReach should work well though from a paraglider as a primary SOS.
- nharada 4y agoTypically you'd be landed before making an emergency call. But I definitely wouldn't wanna use my iPhone as an inReach replacement, supplement only.
- dghlsakjg 4y agoFrom a paraglider: we are definitely paying attention to the new iphone SOS feature, many of us who fly over wilderness areas carry a spot or in-reach. We never activate in the air (no point), so having to point it in a specific direction is not an issue. Being blocked by limbs or terrain would be an issue. Some people carry air-band radios, but largely we use the ham frequencies. Air band would be of limited utility for emergencies since we would just be using an aircraft as a relay to ATC to SAR. Satellite trackers have one button that does all of that without having to deal with air-band.
- poorman 4y agoYou can see where all the Helium hotspots are. They have a mechanism called Proof Of Coverage so that they can be used to tell devices communicating with them what their geolocation is. It's pretty easy to tell which devices are on top of the mountains over salt lake. https://explorer.helium.com/coverage https://explorer.helium.com/coverage https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/11f1b3jVrJ9mh1KebQY5oVmnvLZPyy75pYMB6krRcvUENRCZbfq https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/11f1b3jVrJ9mh1KebQY5oVm...
- ed25519FUUU 4y agoI don’t think there’s hundreds or thousands of them up on the mountains like the image shows?
- teewuane 4y agoIt’s got to be some sort of Multi Level Marketing thing. You buy three towers, sell your friends three towers, they sell 3 towers each. Boom. Money. Wait, that is actually a good idea for a mesh network.
- mikeyouse 4y agoThat's actually how the stupid Helium network was setup.. it used to (maybe still does?) provide rewards for setting up a hotspot and much much less for data throughput so it was basically a big grift to sell miners. Then they gave a huge proportion of the earliest miners to their executives and family members so that commoners buying miners were basically just funneling money to the execs. https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahemerson/2022/09/23/helium-crypto-tokens-peoples-network/?sh=2744e7337316 https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahemerson/2022/09/23/helium-...
- donniefitz2 4y agoIt seems like it would be pretty easy to stand near one of these with a frequency counter, or even a handheld Yeasu FT-60 and find out what frequency it's using. It would be very clear if it was relaying data or voice as well. From there you could take that frequency and figure who would be using it and what for.
- zelon88 4y agoI love how it's "public" land just as long as it goes completely unutilized. Seriously though, it's heartbreaking to see the governments pervasive take on conservation of land. Here in MA the policy is to basically locate every trail in every woods, install a gate in front of it, add a sign to kick out all the OHRVs that made the trail in the first place, put a bunch of benches and signage and what amounts to trash all over the place, and then add another sign inviting all the crunchy granola Karen's to come walk their dog and do yoga in nature. Because appearantly riding 4 wheelers is bad. Kids should be on the streets doing drugs instead. And only Karen's go to town meetings so they are the only ones who get a voice. My taxes don't count.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- markstos 4y agoYou are also invited to the town meetings.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago> Because appearantly riding 4 wheelers is bad. Kids should be on the streets doing drugs instead. Nice false dichotomy.
- sumoboy 4y agoDefinitely a helium miner in play here. Plenty of pics on reddit where people have built self-powered deployments, solar charges a battery inside, 4g for internet access, and mine away helium all day long. Was very profitable 14-24 months ago but HNT crypto price has plummeted and helium founders pretty much bet the same type of deployment could happen for 5g deployments which has pretty much been a disaster. 5g implementations require more $$$ equipment and pricey antennas, and a complex setup with a limited range. The appeal of these helium miners was a very simple setup and low cost. I'd seen offers for people who work on cell towers in SLC to rent space for these miners. Plenty of places in the SLC that can reach a large % of the valley without having to go that high. I still have a single miner running in Vegas that has a 50km reach from a residential house with a single 5.8dbi antenna. Could easily put one on a hilltop but doubtful it would help. I highly doubt the cartel is invested in these, very low data throughput which why IoT devices are the target market.
- solotronics 4y agoI always assumed these helium miners were doing some weird radio data collection, IP obfuscation, or something. There has to be some incentive behind getting people to set up these radios everywhere.
- sumoboy 4y agoBeing paid in HNT crypto to run the device. With a $250 box and the HNT pricing around $15-$20 and on the rise, people were making thousands mining a 100+ coins a month deployed in a half decent location. The buying demand for these miners went through the roof and people were waiting 9-12 months to get one. Easy to buy one now but likely only to mine around 4 coins a month due to halving and price decline. HNT coin is around $1.70 right now.
- cush 4y agoWhy does the physical location of the mining rig matter?
- mdwelsh 4y agoI have deployed similar-looking devices in places like volcanoes in Ecuador. On each of these boxes we put a prominent message in Spanish and English: "This is sensitive research equipment, please do not touch" with contact information.
- retrac 4y agoAnecdotally, the HF (shortwave) bands are on fire, lately. There's a lot of activity compared to 10 and 20 years ago. Broadcast and amateurs experimenting with digital HF. Also weird stuff. Just the other day I saw a very low rate OFDM signal emitting ~1 kHz wide AM tones several seconds long, across ~500 kHz of spectrum. Visible from receivers in Iceland and Australia. Unless regulations have changed recently, I'm pretty sure that mode is illegal in most countries for amateur radio operators. Could be military or government? If not, they're likely operating illegally. And they want to send a few bits per second, very reliably, probably global coverage with a cheap receiver. And the Internet isn't appropriate for that task. In recent years, with signal processing, it has become possible to communicate, at very low speeds over HF with downright trivial equipment. 100 milliwatts or so, from a simple one-transistor sort of transmitter, running at say 0.1 or 0.01 baud, can go across the continent with a wire hanging out the window. With the right coding, software-defined radio can pick that kind of signal out from beneath the noise floor. Similarly, with higher frequencies like UHF, the cost has come down to the point that individuals, or small groups, could construct their own large-area mesh networks. A dozen LoRa radios with microcontrollers, placed strategically, could cover a large urban area. $1000? Something like that. It will also soon be possible for a small organization, or even an individual, to construct a satellite-based data network. Cubesats can be launched for just thousands of dollars each. It's possible to communicate with such satellites using readily-available and relatively cheap equipment. Someone will eventually realize they can launch some dozens of such cheap satellites, and have their own global low-bandwidth network. A new startup, Swarm, has already launched their first set of smartphone-sized satellites, which collect beacon/telemetry data. I suppose my overall point is that low-bitrate radio at distance is getting easier and cheaper over time. And being able to send even 1000 bits per second between many points in an urban area between mobile devices, like LoRa-based mesh networks can do, would be a very valuable asset for an individual or organization to have, if normal communications were disrupted. Unlike a giant 10 kilowatt HF transmitter in the old days, it's kind of hard to pin down where the equipment even is, or what it's for, or who is using it. Once the cost is cheap enough, nodes in such a network are effectively disposable. Place and forget. This will be an upset for those who assume that if Internet access is controlled, most or all potential communication channels are controlled.
- 4y ago
- Havoc 4y agoMy money is on cartel. Putting equipment up with no regard for loss via confiscation means it's something very profitable. Complete disregard for laws also fits
- stevespang 4y ago[dead]
- doodlebugging 4y agoThe easiest way to find the owner/operator would be to carry a few cans of white spray paint in your backpack and paint the solar panels on every one that you find. Or, clean out your closet and haul your ill-fitting clothes up the hill and drape every one of the panels. It won't take long for someone somewhere to start griping. Then you bust them and levy appropriate fines or penalties and force them to remove all of it, everywhere at their expense. Make an example out of them in the most humiliating manner legally allowed so that no one else ever thinks it will be a good idea.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- daneel_w 4y agoBut why? The device has an indirect scientific value, and additionally it does no harm. I cannot understand your vitriol and malice.
- doodlebugging 4y agoI have replied to the other poster in this thread. I understand that there may be some scientific value to these antennas and potentially a public benefit. That makes it even more ridiculous to me that those responsible chose not follow the rules around installing things like this on public lands since it is likely dead simple to gain support for something that will provide a clear public benefit, maybe even enough support that it effectively is paid for by the use of public monies. Clearly these people intended no public benefit or they would've lobbied locally for support.
- mardifoufs 4y agoYou want to humiliate and make an example of someone for... putting antennas on public land? Sure it's not legal but that doesn't justify such a weird response. This is closer to painting graffitis than anything else, jesus christ.
- redundantly 4y ago
- jakenotjacob 4y agoIf these were HAM repeaters instead, it would be a cool thing.
- duckqlz 4y agoMy guess: Some poor phD student whom neglected to fill out the required permissions with the FTC and BLM just lost $50K of equipment and has to decided if they should face the embarrassment (and possible fines) to claim it.
- Hashemm 4y ago[dead]
- Lorin 4y agoI need an archiver for my playlists, majority of the videos I've watched over the years have vanished from playlists with ZERO information or title remaining, making it forever a mystery as to what they used to be.
- Felipebury 4y ago[flagged]
- Roark66 4y agoCrypto currency? Seriously, that was their first thought? I find it hard to believe. It sounds like something a journalist would come up with to make a story more interesting. Also, if the boxes have antennas, what length are they? If these are not normal mobile phone frequencies perhaps they should contact FCC and ask if there are call signs for base stations at those locations. Perhaps some ham wasn't aware it is not permitted to leave such things on public land? If not ham radio or other kind of tech enthusiast my first thoughts would be in order: - relays for connectivity of some devices located in valleys so they are out of reach of lte/GPRS, but a relay on a peak is. For example, are there problems with unauthorised growing of plants in those mountains? Maybe grow monitoring. - amateur weather monitoring/Ip cameras (they didn't say if the boxes were equipped with cameras - animal photo traps - some "prepper experiment" in building a mesh network In any case this was a really disappointing article... They took a device down, but they didn't report anything about its internals. Does it have any easily readable storage? Usb drives, SD cards? Are pcbs off the shelf or custom made? Perhaps firmware can be dumped and clues can be found this way. Or it can be plugged in the lab and whatever it transmits can be analysed. Etc.
- zinekeller 4y ago> Crypto currency? Seriously, that was their first thought? I find it hard to believe. It sounds like something a journalist would come up with to make a story more interesting. Uh, you assumed that it's the mainstream ones like Bitcoin or Ethereum but there is a reasonable suspicion that it's a Helium node (https://www.helium.com https://www.helium.com). According to what I've learned last year their shtick is that deploying on places that have less physical Helium nodes allows you to collect more HNT tokens which you can allegedly convert into cash while Helium will sell bandwidth à la Sigfox (https://www.sigfox.com/ https://www.sigfox.com/). In this particular case (unauthorized placement plus the particular spacing) this theory is more likely than an ADB-S collector (you only need a single unit to collect all data for miles) or privately-deployed seismographs.
- majestic5762 4y agoOr maybe they are used for fraud. Tunneling traffic through a sim card nobody knows about, which if located would be discovered in the mountains, well that's a blackhat dream
- Neil44 4y agoTrue but someone has to purchase the sim and top it up - money trail, plus there's physical evidence where did the box, solar, whatever's in it come from serial numbers etc more money trail as well as physical evidence to worry about. Plus - how long as it been there - what day did it come live - cameras covering trail enterances, nearby gas stations, what other phones pinged the mast that day etc. Plenty for the white hats to go at there.
- animitronix 4y agoBecause crypto, saved you the click