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MacBook owners have two months to claim up to $395 over butterfly keyboard woes
- voytec 4y agoSilly low compensation for not being able to type effectively on a mobile computer. As a EU citizen, I stopped buying Apple's hardware after this keyboard fiasco. Almost immediately after buying affected MBP, I sent it for repairs and got keyboard and case replaced with the same garbage. They had no idea how to handle it in other fashion than stating that everything works as intended (bit still replaced it).
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- butler14 4y agoAny chance of being able to do similar in the UK? e.g. is there likely to be me-too legal action in the UK/EU?
- drooopy 4y agoI'd like to know that as well. My 2016 MacBook Pro is one of the worst laptops that I've ever owned and I had to have that stupid keyboard fixed 3 times during its lifespan.
- azalemeth 4y agoI'd really like to know the answer to this too. Mine needs a replacement keyboard but I haven't been able to be without it for that long (!) and worry both about the cost and time requirement.
- w1nst0nsm1th 4y agoThe macbook keybord keys can be cleaned, you just have to remove the keys properly (I had a macbook 12). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4rI4-q4uYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4rI4-q4uYQ But you will have to do it every month if you don't use a cover.
- nicbou 4y agoCan confirm. Mine has 3 replacement keys from an AliExpress set. It's working as it should. I'm on my third keyboard already, so this is a godsend.
- w1nst0nsm1th 4y agoThe macbook keybord keys can be cleaned, you just have to remove the keys properly (I had a macbook 12). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4rI4-q4uYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4rI4-q4uYQ But you will have to do it every month if you don't use a cover.
- charlieegan3 4y agoI went through an EU consumer law claim. I documented the process here: https://charlieegan3.com/posts/2019-11-02-refunding-another-macbook/ https://charlieegan3.com/posts/2019-11-02-refunding-another-.... I understand this is largely unchanged after Brexit.
- ClassyJacket 4y agoOh crap, my letter M key is broken but I'm not back in Australia for a while and I assume they only carry British keyboards in the UK. I don't even have a proble with the low key travel on touchbar acs, just how easily they break. EDIT: My mistake, this is about claiming copensation, not about the replaceent progra.
- mherdeg 4y agoI'm still kind of shocked I let myself work with MacBooks for years with a 1-5% chance that any given week, random commonly used built-in keys would just stop working. "I should definitely have switched to any other vendor", I write from my MacBook Air.
- ClassyJacket 4y agoThat happened to me too, but they'd usually start working again within half an hour or so of use. Only after 3 years did a key finally break and stay broken. I feel like I got off easy compared to most people.
- illegalsmile 4y agoI had a 2017 MBP that I just replaced with a M2 and I had a similar experience. There were some annoyances with the space bar, or the t, or randomly repeating characters... over five years. I never had a key completely go out and things would fix themselves; it became an ongoing joke about the self-healing keyboard. Though it never should have been a joke to begin with. If it would have been my primary machine it would not have been acceptable. Some people went through multiple keyboards and periods of downtime so we definitely got off easy.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y agoThey can special-order any layout.
- aleks5678 4y agoDoes Apple offer free replacement of keyboards mentioned in the article or only refunds?
- rideontime 4y agoThe $395 is only for people who've gotten multiple repairs done, $125 for a single keyboard replacement, and $50 for only having keycaps replaced (was that even a thing?). What about those of us who just put up with it because we couldn't give up our work computer for however long a repair would take?
- selykg 4y agoI was one of those that had multiple repairs. Each time I sent them in on a Friday afternoon. I got them back the following Monday. This was shipping things from the Midwest to Texas. I realize that doesn't help you now, but the three times I've sent devices in to Apple for repair I've gotten them back the next business day. Maybe I'm an outlier on this, but that's my experience at the very least.
- hbn 4y agoMost people work Friday afternoons and Mondays
- ianhawes 4y agoI took mine to a local shop that specializes in Mac repairs and they quoted me a week to have it done but it was completed next day for free. I did, however, eventually have another key start breaking and bought a newer model when I otherwise wouldn’t have.
- bluedino 4y agoI was always very impressed how fast Apple would send my laptop back after service. Not so much impressed how the FedEx driver would just toss the box in my front yard late in the evening. I'd find my laptop in the grass as I was going to work in the morning.
- bombcar 4y agoApple MacBook Free Range/Cage Free Grass-Fed.
- 4y ago
- vkoskiv 4y agoOnly for US citizens. I received communications on the progress of this thing for years, kind of a letdown. I have to assume there isn't a special case for that time I happened to be in the US, booked a Genius bar appointment, and the Genius promptly ruined the spacebar on my keyboard, and just straight up lied to my face about it. By far the most bizarre interaction I have ever had with another human face to face.
- robertlagrant 4y agoI took my car into a dealership near work once because it'd been hit by a coworker in the car park. While at the dealership the rear windscreen somehow was shattered, but they didn't tell me about it for a week, and didn't want to pay for fixing it. They eventually did, but left all the broken glass in my boot. Some people are shameless :)
- vkoskiv 4y agoThe 'Genius' at that Maine Apple Store was absolutely intentional in his behavior. Initially he just returned from the back, plopped my machine on the table, told me I'm all set and quickly took off before I could even inspect the machine. When I found him again and showed him that the spacebar wasn't depressing at all anymore and wasn't registering keypresses, he took it to the back again, made it slightly better (by hastily ripping out the rubber dampening membrane out), I confronted him about it again, pointed out that the dampening membrane was missing, and he just said to me he doesn't see anything wrong. I was absolutely floored, I had never seen a person behave that way before at that point. And come to think of it, not even since then.
- skellera 4y agoThis is one of the few times where it makes sense to talk to a manager or higher.
- hacym 4y agoMany times frontline employees are purposely made powerless to assist with an issue where it’s very simple for a manager to fix something. Even when frontline employees say “my manager will say the same thing” I’ve found that they often won’t and will easily resolve the issue. Companies that do this simply don’t want to resolve your problem.
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y agoApple already have a free extended warranty (keyboard replacement) program for these models: https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-n...
- KMnO4 4y agoOnly for four years after its model. For example, 2015-2018 are no longer covered under this warranty.
- ezfe 4y agoWhich unfortunately provides no compensation for the time lost each time a mail-in repair has to be done, which takes 2 business days minimum, usually 3-5 even when they're not behind schedule. During 2020 I had a repair take a few weeks... It was free, but this settlement will provide some small amount of compensation for that hassle. And of course, I recycled the laptop for a gift card at exactly the 4 year mark to buy an M1 Air - I could've sold it privately but it was defective so I had to accept Apple's valuation. Another spot where I lost money, probably more than the $300 will cover.
- FireBeyond 4y ago> And of course, I recycled the laptop for a gift card at exactly the 4 year mark to buy an M1 Air - I could've sold it privately but it was defective so I had to accept Apple's valuation. Another spot where I lost money, probably more than the $300 will cover. I know Apple is moving to their own silicon, but out of curiosity last week I punched in my Mac Pro (cheesegrater) for a trade-in on the Studio. It was ... insulting. 12 core Xeon, 192GB memory, 8TB SSD, W5700X 16GB... I thought maybe a few thousand. Nope. $1,050. What's insulting about this? Apple is today selling this same config for $12,799.
- WesSouza 4y agoUp to $395. Likely $15.
- digisocialnet 4y agoI received 4 new keyboards over the life of my old MacBook and swore I'd never buy a Mac again. Apple wanted to charge me $1000 for a 5th logic board/keyboard. I did end up getting a M1 Max MBP, and I guess the $395 is nice. It'd be nicer if Apple admitted it was a defective design and recalled the product.
- phaedrus 4y agoIronically I had a covered device that failed prematurely but not for the recall reason. I was suspicious of the keyboard redesign so I bought and used a keyboard cover from day one, and I never had a problem with any of the keys. Instead the ribbon connecting the screen failed. I took it to a reputable repair shop, who told me based on their experience the failure rate on these for other display-related reasons was high enough that in their opinion I'd be throwing good money after bad. So I told them to just use mine for parts or recycle it. (It was old enough by then that the latest OS X no longer supported it, thus defeating its purpose for software development. In return I decided to simply no longer support Mac versions of software I write.)
- NockNock 4y agoI had ribbon cable break on my 2017 MacBook Pro w/ TouchBar. They replaced the entire top shell of the computer and also fixed the keyboard at the same time. This was about 4 years ago. Keyboard started going bad again this last year, cmd key falling off, ‘O’ key always has multiple inputs for a single keystroke.
- acapybara 4y agoThis sounds horrible. I've never had a single issue like this on any of my Thinkpads running Linux. They're built solid and take a lot of abuse.
- bombcar 4y agoYou have to be careful of those keyboard covers because the space between the keyboard and monitor is so small when closed it can crack the screen
- abawany 4y agoMy work-issued 2019 also had this failure and it took Apple 5 weeks to send my laptop back.
- default_png 4y agoLol, Did work just buy you a new laptop. 5 Weeks is crazy.
- th3sly 4y ago2 months? what can I say... that's really convenient, considering a lot of people will only find out about this after the deadline
- kofejnik 4y agoI was notified about my eligibility by a direct email yesterday, I guess lawyers got all/most eligible contacts from Apple
- intsunny 4y agoAll of us will forever be baffled about how not only did Apple produce the dumbest laptop keyboard ever, but then defended it. If there was a museum of terrible technology, Apple's butterfly keyboard would be right up there with Windows ME, the Virtualboy, Juicero, etc. (Also removing Magsafe was clearly a dumbass decision. And at some point people will realize that current Apple laptops are once again thick enough to have K-lock slots again.)
- bluedino 4y agoAnd even if they somehow didn't already know about the reliability problems, the butterfly keyboard just felt so..bad.
- turtlebits 4y agoReally? IMO, it had the best feel out of the all Macbook Pro keyboards. Fortunately I never needed repairs, there was only one time I needed to clean out a key with compressed air and was fine. (Owned a 2016 and my work machine was a 2019).
- pivo 4y agoI had the last generation laptop with the "fixed" butterfly keyboard. I never had a problem with it and I had it for three years. It is by far my most favorite keyboard ever. I was said to have to hand it back when I left that job. I'm a light typer though, I think heavier handed typists suffered with it.
- ksec 4y agoAnd it is worth pointing out when Butterfly keyboard first appeared on MBP, every single HN comment were praising it as the greatest keyboard ever. ( As the two comments reply you have right now ) The old MBP had 1.5mm Key travel. They could have cut it to 1.2 or 1.3. Instead they went with 0.7 with the butterfly and later 1mm to the new scissor. Light typer generally dont "dislike" slightly more key travel. But those who cant adopt to small key travel "hate" the new keyboard. I still think it is the wrong trade off.
- nerdponx 4y ago
- ricksunny 4y agoBeen having to stutter through typing on a 2018 MBP right now with four broken butterfly keys, one of which is entirely missing now. Attempting to organize a repair from rural east africa not easy. I was chiding myself for causing it because I snacked on crackers too close to the keyboard, and crumbs got in causing the key breaks. I didn't realize this was a widely known failure mode and design flaw. I feel a little less sheepish about it now.
- ohCh6zos 4y agoSadly I never got repairs done because the wait was longer than I could afford to wait. I ended up having to replace the laptops with different laptops.
- neilv 4y agoIt's karma because there was only one laptop butterfly keyboard, on the ThinkPad 701C. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRVJCtREW38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRVJCtREW38
- ilamont 4y agoWhat made the IBM ThinkPad 701 special was the butterfly keyboard designed by John Karidis solved the problem of making a portable computer with a full-size keyboard. It had a better action than modern laptops in terms typist feedback and was a compact full size keyboard. This was unheard of at the time. It was delicate the way it folded into place as one opened the lid on the laptop and robust enough to cope with travails of mobile working. https://renaissancechambara.jp/2012/04/26/ibm-thinkpad-701/ https://renaissancechambara.jp/2012/04/26/ibm-thinkpad-701/
- johnwalkr 4y agoYou could also remove the keyboard by removing about 4 screws, to gain access to the user-replaceable internal components.
- charlieegan3 4y agoIf you live in the UK or the EU, I think you can follow the process I went through in 2019, provided that you bought the laptop in the last N years, where N seems to change depending on which country you're in. England is 6 years, Scotland is 5. https://charlieegan3.com/posts/2019-11-02-refunding-another-macbook/ https://charlieegan3.com/posts/2019-11-02-refunding-another-...
- Reason077 4y agoHmm. I'm in England and have an affected 2017 MacBook Pro 13", purchased October 2017, which already had the keyboard replaced once by Apple under the repair programme. But I assume this process only applies if I bought the laptop directly from Apple? Since I bought it from John Lewis, I'd have to make a claim through John Lewis, right?
- ghufran_syed 4y agoi don’t think that’s the issue, but the lawsuit probably only applies to US customers
- charlieegan3 4y agoYeah, I believe so. I think you need to go to an Apple Authorised Service Provider and then take the fault report to John Lewis to kick off the process. Assuming that your laptop is on this list: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/en-gb/keyboard-service-program-for...
- opra59 4y agoWhat law exactly did you reference? After reading the blogpost I can't seem to fint it mentioned anywhere. I have the exact same problem with my Late 2017 15" MacBook Pro. It's been repaired 3 times already.
- charlieegan3 4y agoI'm not sure which law it counts as exactly. Apple's own docs and were enough for me to explain to them using the correct terms: https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/ https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/
- S_A_P 4y agoI have one of these but unfortunately never had keyboard issues other than it sucks to type on. The touch bar on the other hand…
- tambarskjelve 4y agoIn this case I praise the act relating to consumer purchases in Norway. I bought a butterfly MacBook Pro in January 2017. After numerous repairs and complaints to the reseller, I decided to make my case to the consumer council in January 2020, and boy did that resolve the problem: It took the reseller less than 24 hours to replace the old faulty MacBook with a new one with a post butterfly keyboard. I did spend some time going through the consumer law to make my case, and the resellers' poor customer relations and inability to resolve the issue ended up working in my favor. It's bonkers that this issue still isn't resolved for many people.
- ilamont 4y agoIt's amazing how fast many private companies will fix something when regulators or courts get involved. I've actually found Apple to be very responsive to problems, including the keyboard issue for Intel MBPs from the late teens (mine was replaced and they also gave me a nice loaner for a week, an M1). Other large companies - not so much, until the authorities get involved. For instance, I had a bad experience with a telco in my U.S. state some years ago. As soon as I called the state regulator about being strung along over a bait and switch, the telco bent over backwards to clear up the issue. There was also the time I took an airline to small claims court after repeated customer service calls and a demand notice failed to get their attention; the airline's chief counsel called me up at work after they received the notice from the court. They still failed to resolve the problem and also didn't show up for the hearing, so it was a summary judgement in my favor with damages multiplied x3. Tip if you do escalate to a court or regulator: Keep copies of everything including postage receipts with tracking info and records of phone calls (screenshots of call logs, notes about each call, etc.)
- pqvst 4y agoI shared my insane MBP repair history on HN last year (including 5 top-case replacements and 2 complete laptop replacements): https://pqvst.com/2021/08/24/my-macbook-pro/ https://pqvst.com/2021/08/24/my-macbook-pro/ Kind of funny, I'm still on my most recent replacement/repaired unit, and it's still working great since my AppleCare Protection Plan expired (knock on wood). But I guess it's only a matter of time until I'll have to buy a new one.
- 2143 4y agoI find it amazing that they've set up an entire website [1] to handle whatever should happen next. Unheard of in my country. Is it Apple or the law-firm that built the site? Is this kind of thing common with class-action lawsuits in USA? [1] https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/ https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/
- cmeacham98 4y agoThis is very common for class action lawsuits in the US. I have no idea who sets up the website, if it's the plaintiffs or defendants.
- gnicholas 4y agoAlways the class action lawyers (plaintiffs’)
- 2143 4y agoOh okay. Thanks for clarifying that :) This would have been a good opportunity to use a .us TLD, to better indicate the scope, considering in this particular case they mentioned "The Settlement Class includes all persons and entities in the United States".
- rr888 4y ago$50mil settlement is more revenue than most startups. :) https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/19/23270157/apple-butterfly-keyboard-settlement-class-action-lawsuit https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/19/23270157/apple-butterfly-...
- blhack 4y agoI pulled out my old laptop to get the serial number off of it for this, and man it's almost unbelievable how terrible that thing was. The newer macbooks aren't perfect (I really wish they had USB ports), but they're a lot better than that one.
- tluyben2 4y agoNow you can think about functional things; with the laptops from that era (I had the 16 inch 2019 macbook pro), I had a hard time making it barely usable, let alone being able to think what could be nicer about it; nicer could be if it actually worked properly.
- gnicholas 4y agoI had multiple keyboard replacements but when I followed the link that was emailed to me it had me down for just one. I emailed the people and sent them my repair info, and they’re apparently looking into re-categorizing my claim to multi-repair.
- md8 4y agoGoogle/Fitbit refunded entire price of Ionic watch when they found out that there were issues with battery. Apple under Tim Cook has gone into a state where it doesnt care about the customer. The whole no adapter thing moved the entire industry into suck a Scam-Customer state that even Trimmer companies are not offering adapters. Apple is spoiling entire electronics industry. I will keep typing 'i' in my keyboard, and it will instead type 'ii' Apple - You need to send a full refund for manufacturing such as pathetic laptop.
- browningstreet 4y agoI agree on one point: Apple should be refunding a fractional laptop value to anyone who bought a device with the butterfly keyboard. This is a pretty underwhelming agreement. I disagree on your other point: I think Apple absolutely did the right thing removing the charger. Everyone's got a charger at this point, and making it a nominal option during the purchase of the device would be good enough. And in fact, I think the law should be that anything that can be charged by a Lightning/USB-* charger should be. I recently acquired a rechargeable flossing device, and an electric razor and I see no reason why these should have their own proprietary chargers.
- md8 4y agoI agree on the point that we should have our own charger/adapter. But I would love to do that when every company follows the same standard. European Government and few of the Asian government's are enforcing companies to follow a single standard. Hope this will help us move toward a universal standard
- dokem 4y agoLet's leave USB for the computers and microelectronics. I can still charge electric trimmers and toothbrush when there's oil/water/toothpaste on or even in the port. It also still trivially easy to break a usb port. On devices with the rubber power connector you can practically bend the plug out sideways without damage. They're also much easier to connect as they're not designed to support 10+Gbit/s of signal integrity.
- Siecje 4y agoMy friend had a terrible experience with Apple. Her MacBook pro wouldn't turn on. It was less than a year old and she paid for AppleCare+ so she was told it would be covered under warranty. She got a call to pick it up and when she arrived she was told there was internal water damage and she had to pay $450. Also that the screen was scratched and they would replace it when the part came in. Her screen was not scratched when she dropped it off. But she noticed her stickers were gone and the shell was all scratched on the top and bottom. She asked someone if this was even her laptop and they checked and ensured her it was and the shell had to be replaced and that's why her stickers were gone but the shell wasn't new as it was all scratched. Then she asked why the background would have changed and they told her they had to reset everything and she lost all of her files. She was devastated as they said they would call and discuss options if it came to that. They said they could undo the repair and she could take it somewhere else but if Apple can't recover the files then no one else would be able to recover them.
- null_object 4y agoAre you seriously saying that Apple wiped all your “friend’s” files - completely obliterated what could have been unique work or memories - without even telling her, or asking permission first. Then effectively said “seeya!” This doesn’t even remotely match any experience I’ve had with Apple or Apple devices in almost 25 years of use. I’d check back with your “friend” and make sure she was telling you the whole truth. PS: the serial number of her laptop is printed on the bottom of the case - which should address this very, very strange story implying the Apple staff slipped her a dodgy beat-up old laptop. The number should match her invoice and the box (but I guess your friend doesn’t have an invoice or a box, or probably any other way of identifying her laptop other than ‘stickers’)
- Siecje 4y agoYes, I was with her when she picked it up.
- null_object 4y ago> Yes, I was with her when she picked it up. Ok in that case your story must be 100% true and no at all made-up for cheap HN upvotes. Thanks for the clarification. PS: get back to us when you’ve checked the “switched” laptop serial numbers against the “friend” invoice, box and other ways to verify the identity of the device.
- chazeon 4y agoThese generations of MacBook does not only have faulty keyboard design, everything is just wrong. My 2018 15-inch MacBook Pro is constantly overheating. The heat significantly degrades the battery, resulting a battery warning at the one-year mark; and the screen was also burned yellowish/pinkish after a few months’ use. I was lucky to have that Apple Care, I went to Apple Store, they replace the whole body — everything except the board because they don’t take off the screen / battery at the store. So no, I don’t have a receipt for keyboard replacement, even if the keyboard get stuck once a while, that is not the worst issue for me. It is just the tip of the iceberg. But for that, I won’t get compensated for whatsoever. Last spring, I replaced it with a M1-Pro MacBook Pro and never looked back.
- SoftTalker 4y agoYeah I worked in an organization that bought a lot of Macs. They always bought Apple Care for the laptops. They had enough experience to feel it was worth the cost. I have always bought Apple Care for the MacBooks I have bought personally.
- derefr 4y agoToo bad class-action lawsuits only (apparently) apply for that class of people in a particular legal jurisdiction. I went through two broken-keyboard leading to topcase-replacements for my 12" MacBook over the years, but I live in Canada, so I'm guessing there's no $395 coming my way.
- whatever1 4y agoThe really frustrating aspect of this whole story were the attacks to the users who were reporting these issues. Apple was officially ignoring them, but their army of fanboys and payroll-“journalists” were straight out making fun of people: “you don’t know how to maintain a laptop”, “you are dirty” etc If not for Casey Johnston and Joanna Stern, who clearly have some journalistic integrity and went against the giant, we would still not have acknowledged the problem.
- byhemechi 4y ago(in the united states)
- c7DJTLrn 4y agoI think the new keyboard design has issues on the post-2021 MacBooks as well. I've had keys randomly falling off. To Apple's credit, they replaced them for free. Some of them fell off after a wipe of isopropanol too even though they recommend it on their own website for cleaning.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jason_slack 4y agoI wish they would so something about iPad magic keyboards and sticky keys. Mine stated with one sticky key and quickly others become sticky. Cleaning didn’t help. It’s out of warranty and I can’t justify spending another $399(?) on a new one.