7 ms·

To be honest, it's really hard to articulate to people that still live in the United States. But it feels like the country has turned rotten. You feel it any ti

by dimmke 4y ago

To be honest, it's really hard to articulate to people that still live in the United States. But it feels like the country has turned rotten. You feel it any time you interact with a customer service person. Restaurants, stores, especially any kind of "gig economy" service like getting food delivered. They hate serving you and hate their job. Social media has turned what used to be quietly held opinions into bullhorns and raised up walls where you're either on one side or the other. Outside of a few places, you have to drive and who knows if the person who just cut you off has a gun. Also when you leave, you realize how much of American society is constructed around the idea of curtailing legal liability. It's why you have to fill out a 50 page form to get your teeth cleaned. It's why you have to go to the doctor and get a new prescription every year for a medication you've been taking with no problems for a decade. It's why even when you have money, you have this sense in the back of your mind that you could still lose it all. Meanwhile, you see the truly rich treating the markets like it's a playground. I moved to Mexico last year, and I felt safer. Like, not just physically safer but psychologically safer. People (not just in customer service positions) are more polite. The society feels more cohesive. Things here are easy if you have some (not even a lot) money. Mexico is definitely not a perfect country - has tons of problems. But it's easier to insulate yourself from them if you're an ex-pat/immigrant and have money. That's the honest, kind of ugly answer.

paulryanrogers 4y ago
Mexico's image in the US media is quite negative, especially regarding safety. How does being an expat and having money help insulate from Mexico's problems? What are prospects like for your kids?
- dimmke 4y ago
  >Mexico's image in the US media is quite negative, especially regarding safety. Yes, and every scene of Mexico in a TV show is sepia toned. It's very funny to me. Mexico's problems are basically: - Drug cartels - Poverty/Bad economic prospects if you're born there - Government corruption But Mexico is a very complicated place that is very different depending on what part of the country you're in (kind of like the US in that way.) There are places where the cartels are barely active and the police have a huge presence. There are "wealthy" areas of Mexico that wouldn't look out of place in the U.S. There are places in Mexico you definitely should not live or raise your kids. But you could say the same thing about many places in the U.S. Having money allows you to live in safer areas with better public services, just like in the U.S. It just takes a lot less money. I don't have kids, but I have expat friends here who do and I have met their kids. Some of them speak 3-4 languages. There are quite a few international schools that are "private" but again - a private school tuition in Mexico is nothing like a private school in the U.S. and they're very good schools.
emptysongglass 4y ago
The same Mexico with violent corruption reaching all the way to the highest levels of government? It sounds like you've insulated yourself from the astronomical violence of Mexico in one of its towns that caters to you but it's not the truth of the country: you're living in your own kind of walled up community town and telling yourself it's representative of the country at large.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Mexico is hardly a uniform country, much of American media on Mexico is limited to high crime border areas, not the nicer parts of the country. If you compare the countries: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Mexico/United-States/Crime https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Mexico/Uni... They come out to be relatively similar overall. It would be like using St. Louis as an example of crime that someone living in SF will experience: the scales are completely off.
  - emptysongglass 4y ago
    From your own data I see a 98% higher murder rate. No, it is not a uniform country but it is deeply, deeply corrupt. That the state is so thoroughly compromised is well-known. The commenter I replied to used their own anecdata to extrapolate to the whole of Mexico, which is a mistake.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      Yes, the murder rate is higher. But it’s not a huge difference when you consider that those numbers are low to begin with.
throwaway920102 4y ago
"You feel it any time you interact with a customer service person. Restaurants, stores, especially any kind of "gig economy" service like getting food delivered. They hate serving you and hate their job." Have you traveled widely within the United States (including 'boring areas')? I've experienced this feeling in places like where I currently live, NYC, but don't feel it as much where I grew up in a boring suburb. Not to say there aren't other problems. But I get nearly the same feeling of safety as I did in Europe or Asia.
nine_zeros 4y ago
> It's why you have to fill out a 50 page form to get your teeth cleaned. It's why you have to go to the doctor and get a new prescription every year for a medication you've been taking with no problems for a decade. I had to fill a 10-page form, and drive to a GPs office twice to sign documents in order to get a GP that would accept a new patient - after 4 months. Compare this to Indonesia where I walked in (yes, no appointment), to meet a GP and set up a relationship the next day. When I share this story among my American friends, they think I exaggerate. "How can anything be so smooth? There must be something wrong with those countries". They never realize that in fact, something is wrong in America. And imo, it is the legal red-tape that tries to write complicated laws, statutes and policies to limit liability or to catch people in gotchas to limit benefits.
astrange 4y ago
Whether or not service people are nice to you doesn’t seem important, but Americans are generally nicer than, say, any European. I don’t know if you’d like Japan. Sure, they’re extremely polite, but “omotenashi” basically means “the customer is always wrong” - you get what they’re offering, no customization allowed.
- dimmke 4y ago
  Actually, it matters to me quite a bit. And the fact that that’s the thing you zeroed in on in my comment is exactly what I’m talking about. You automatically assumed I’m some difficult to please customer- which isn’t the case at all. Obviously you will have to take my word for it, but your response is extremely telling about the attitude that people have these days. You immediately launched into an anecdote about Japan (the fuck?) and how they don’t customize food orders.
  - astrange 4y ago
    Nah, I didn’t assume any such thing. However, I now think you’re a meanie who doesn’t appreciate my anecdotes.
- scotty79 4y ago
  Lack of customization is pretty much global standard. France for example is the same. If you want to change something in your meal, go cook it yourself, at home. Or just buy what we serve and eat it.
nradov 4y ago
Mexico is a failed state. "Mexico Prison Break Near US Border Leaves 17 Dead, Gang Leader on Run" https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-prison-break-near-us-191932044.html https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-prison-break-near-us-191932044... This kind of thing doesn't happen in countries with functional governments. I predict that within 20 years the US military will be conducting frequent counterinsurgency operations inside Mexico (complete with drone strikes) in order to prevent a complete collapse.
cuteboy19 4y ago
Most Americans are extremely polite compared to Indians at least. The first time someone randomly greeted me on the street I thought I was being scammed. Maybe just a mexico thing?
helloworld11 4y ago
I too live in Mexico and have for over a decade. If you say you feel physically safer here, it's because you live in a bubble of safety that's probably the result of having enough money to carefully choose where you reside and having picked a place where crime and insecurity haven't quite filtered to yet. Despite this, it's grossly mistaken or even dishonest to paint this country as a safer place than the U.S. The police are almost uniformly corrupt throughout, and where they don't engage in frequently criminal levels of corruption and extortion, they're often simply inept and unresponsive. God help you if a family member should be a victim of a serious crime or kidnapping here. You will very likely receive a terrible if not outrageously corrupt police response. Exceptions exist, but they're not at all the norm. Now moving onto crime: Though certain parts of the country are safer from it and some places are remarkably peaceful, no honest person should understate how generally pervasive violent crime of many types has become throughout a growing percentage of the country. NO, IT IS NOT about just drug cartels or people involved in the black markets. Extortion, kidnappings, assaults and murders have reached a point where they affect many people from all sectors even if they're often careful. Now obviously, Mexico isn't some caricature from a Hollywood movie in which one dodges bullets just by stepping outside, and it's possible to be fairly safe in many parts of the country. However, danger and an inability to respond effectively to crime if you are a victim of it go hand in hand and are much more common than many bubble-ensconced expats claim. The murder rate in the country is 6 times higher than it is in the U.S as a whole, in 2021, murders have reached their highest levels since the Mexican Revolution of the early 20th century, and this not to even mention forced disappearances, unreported murders or the numerous types of lesser violent crime that are widespread. To claim that you're physically safer in Mexico than in the U.S is an exercise in extraordinarily selective thinking or very particular, completely non-general circumstances. Again, I live here, have for many years and have many friends throughout this country from all levels of the socieconomic ladder. Many of them have been victims of crime in many situations. All have at some point been the victims of police corruption.
- helloworld11 4y ago
  Just to add: There are of course many stories and cases of bad police conduct in the U.S and in many incidents, police investigate poorly or react badly to situations, but overall, the general trend is that if you report a serious crime, it will receive a reasonably professional and often very strong investigative response. It will at least be generally incomparably better than how things would be in Mexico if the same were to occur, in this country where only 2% yes, 2% of murders (never mind lesser crimes) are ever solved by police.... People who complain about shitty police service in the United States are right to do so and point it out, but many of them have never seen just how bad it usually is in a country like Mexico. What's more, basic self defense is practically forbidden. One can sniff their nose at U.S gun laws all they want but at least in most places a basic right to self defense when the police don't arrive on time and one's life is in danger exists. In Mexico, we have an absolutely perverse situation in which police barely respond in meaningful ways, crime is rampant, criminals are heavily armed and easily obtain weapons, but normal civilians risk going to prison if they should carry even non-lethal weapons for self defense, or use a gun in their home to protect themselves against and assault. Why do the police arrest them more often? Because such people are much easier pickings than a real criminal and it's an opportunity for safe extortion. This is very common, and grotesque. U.S self defense laws are much better as an alternative. Europeans disdain such gun laws, but at least in most European countries where self-defense with weapons is often essentially forbidden, at least the justice system and policing are both functional. In Mexico they emphatically are not, but with the same sorts of highly restrictive laws against civilians who take defense into their own hands. I challenge anyone to defend such a legal landscape.
c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago
>To be honest, it's really hard to articulate to people that still live in the United States. But it feels like the country has turned rotten. I get this feeling on the rare occasion that I watch US news. It feels like wheels have come off. >You feel it any time you interact with a customer service person. My Wife and I were flying business back to the US for our honeymoon on a US carrier. Requests to the flight attendants were met with annoyance. On the few times I've been fortunate enough to fly business with international carriers, you're genuinely appreciated and treated well.
- bostonian10 4y ago
  >My Wife and I were flying business back to the US for our honeymoon on a US carrier. Requests to the flight attendants were met with annoyance. On the few times I've been fortunate enough to fly business with international carriers, you're genuinely appreciated and treated well. Are you and your wife by any chance not white? My mom is white and my dad is Asian. The difference how they are treated in upscale environments like for example business class at American carriers can very disturbing at times to say the least.
spritefs 4y ago
> But it feels like the country has turned rotten. You feel it any time you interact with a customer service person. Restaurants, stores, especially any kind of "gig economy" service like getting food delivered. They hate serving you and hate their job. A couple months ago I opened up Facebook and saw ads for this company [0]. I immediately think "oh it's just a sham designed to peddle as many ADHD pills as possible" like 5 seconds later (because I'm cynical at this point, sorry). Of course the company denies all wrongdoing and is firmly committed to "helping people" or whatever This dynamic right here: this fake smile in the public's face, all of this fluffy marketing bullshit about "wanting to help people", this is the American disease right here. America might look nice and economically developed from the outside, but it's full of maggots like this on the inside. Much like the above corporation [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/ftc-launches-probe-of-cerebrals-business-practices-11655241983 https://www.wsj.com/articles/ftc-launches-probe-of-cerebrals...

by dimmke 4y ago

paulryanrogers 4y ago

Mexico's image in the US media is quite negative, especially regarding safety. How does being an expat and having money help insulate from Mexico's problems? What are prospects like for your kids?

dimmke 4y ago
>Mexico's image in the US media is quite negative, especially regarding safety. Yes, and every scene of Mexico in a TV show is sepia toned. It's very funny to me. Mexico's problems are basically: - Drug cartels - Poverty/Bad economic prospects if you're born there - Government corruption But Mexico is a very complicated place that is very different depending on what part of the country you're in (kind of like the US in that way.) There are places where the cartels are barely active and the police have a huge presence. There are "wealthy" areas of Mexico that wouldn't look out of place in the U.S. There are places in Mexico you definitely should not live or raise your kids. But you could say the same thing about many places in the U.S. Having money allows you to live in safer areas with better public services, just like in the U.S. It just takes a lot less money. I don't have kids, but I have expat friends here who do and I have met their kids. Some of them speak 3-4 languages. There are quite a few international schools that are "private" but again - a private school tuition in Mexico is nothing like a private school in the U.S. and they're very good schools.

emptysongglass 4y ago

The same Mexico with violent corruption reaching all the way to the highest levels of government? It sounds like you've insulated yourself from the astronomical violence of Mexico in one of its towns that caters to you but it's not the truth of the country: you're living in your own kind of walled up community town and telling yourself it's representative of the country at large.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Mexico is hardly a uniform country, much of American media on Mexico is limited to high crime border areas, not the nicer parts of the country. If you compare the countries: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Mexico/United-States/Crime https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Mexico/Uni... They come out to be relatively similar overall. It would be like using St. Louis as an example of crime that someone living in SF will experience: the scales are completely off.
- emptysongglass 4y ago
  From your own data I see a 98% higher murder rate. No, it is not a uniform country but it is deeply, deeply corrupt. That the state is so thoroughly compromised is well-known. The commenter I replied to used their own anecdata to extrapolate to the whole of Mexico, which is a mistake.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Yes, the murder rate is higher. But it’s not a huge difference when you consider that those numbers are low to begin with.

throwaway920102 4y ago

"You feel it any time you interact with a customer service person. Restaurants, stores, especially any kind of "gig economy" service like getting food delivered. They hate serving you and hate their job." Have you traveled widely within the United States (including 'boring areas')? I've experienced this feeling in places like where I currently live, NYC, but don't feel it as much where I grew up in a boring suburb. Not to say there aren't other problems. But I get nearly the same feeling of safety as I did in Europe or Asia.

nine_zeros 4y ago

> It's why you have to fill out a 50 page form to get your teeth cleaned. It's why you have to go to the doctor and get a new prescription every year for a medication you've been taking with no problems for a decade. I had to fill a 10-page form, and drive to a GPs office twice to sign documents in order to get a GP that would accept a new patient - after 4 months. Compare this to Indonesia where I walked in (yes, no appointment), to meet a GP and set up a relationship the next day. When I share this story among my American friends, they think I exaggerate. "How can anything be so smooth? There must be something wrong with those countries". They never realize that in fact, something is wrong in America. And imo, it is the legal red-tape that tries to write complicated laws, statutes and policies to limit liability or to catch people in gotchas to limit benefits.

astrange 4y ago

Whether or not service people are nice to you doesn’t seem important, but Americans are generally nicer than, say, any European. I don’t know if you’d like Japan. Sure, they’re extremely polite, but “omotenashi” basically means “the customer is always wrong” - you get what they’re offering, no customization allowed.

dimmke 4y ago
Actually, it matters to me quite a bit. And the fact that that’s the thing you zeroed in on in my comment is exactly what I’m talking about. You automatically assumed I’m some difficult to please customer- which isn’t the case at all. Obviously you will have to take my word for it, but your response is extremely telling about the attitude that people have these days. You immediately launched into an anecdote about Japan (the fuck?) and how they don’t customize food orders.
- astrange 4y ago
  Nah, I didn’t assume any such thing. However, I now think you’re a meanie who doesn’t appreciate my anecdotes.
scotty79 4y ago
Lack of customization is pretty much global standard. France for example is the same. If you want to change something in your meal, go cook it yourself, at home. Or just buy what we serve and eat it.

nradov 4y ago

Mexico is a failed state. "Mexico Prison Break Near US Border Leaves 17 Dead, Gang Leader on Run" https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-prison-break-near-us-191932044.html https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-prison-break-near-us-191932044... This kind of thing doesn't happen in countries with functional governments. I predict that within 20 years the US military will be conducting frequent counterinsurgency operations inside Mexico (complete with drone strikes) in order to prevent a complete collapse.

cuteboy19 4y ago

Most Americans are extremely polite compared to Indians at least. The first time someone randomly greeted me on the street I thought I was being scammed. Maybe just a mexico thing?

helloworld11 4y ago

I too live in Mexico and have for over a decade. If you say you feel physically safer here, it's because you live in a bubble of safety that's probably the result of having enough money to carefully choose where you reside and having picked a place where crime and insecurity haven't quite filtered to yet. Despite this, it's grossly mistaken or even dishonest to paint this country as a safer place than the U.S. The police are almost uniformly corrupt throughout, and where they don't engage in frequently criminal levels of corruption and extortion, they're often simply inept and unresponsive. God help you if a family member should be a victim of a serious crime or kidnapping here. You will very likely receive a terrible if not outrageously corrupt police response. Exceptions exist, but they're not at all the norm. Now moving onto crime: Though certain parts of the country are safer from it and some places are remarkably peaceful, no honest person should understate how generally pervasive violent crime of many types has become throughout a growing percentage of the country. NO, IT IS NOT about just drug cartels or people involved in the black markets. Extortion, kidnappings, assaults and murders have reached a point where they affect many people from all sectors even if they're often careful. Now obviously, Mexico isn't some caricature from a Hollywood movie in which one dodges bullets just by stepping outside, and it's possible to be fairly safe in many parts of the country. However, danger and an inability to respond effectively to crime if you are a victim of it go hand in hand and are much more common than many bubble-ensconced expats claim. The murder rate in the country is 6 times higher than it is in the U.S as a whole, in 2021, murders have reached their highest levels since the Mexican Revolution of the early 20th century, and this not to even mention forced disappearances, unreported murders or the numerous types of lesser violent crime that are widespread. To claim that you're physically safer in Mexico than in the U.S is an exercise in extraordinarily selective thinking or very particular, completely non-general circumstances. Again, I live here, have for many years and have many friends throughout this country from all levels of the socieconomic ladder. Many of them have been victims of crime in many situations. All have at some point been the victims of police corruption.

helloworld11 4y ago
Just to add: There are of course many stories and cases of bad police conduct in the U.S and in many incidents, police investigate poorly or react badly to situations, but overall, the general trend is that if you report a serious crime, it will receive a reasonably professional and often very strong investigative response. It will at least be generally incomparably better than how things would be in Mexico if the same were to occur, in this country where only 2% yes, 2% of murders (never mind lesser crimes) are ever solved by police.... People who complain about shitty police service in the United States are right to do so and point it out, but many of them have never seen just how bad it usually is in a country like Mexico. What's more, basic self defense is practically forbidden. One can sniff their nose at U.S gun laws all they want but at least in most places a basic right to self defense when the police don't arrive on time and one's life is in danger exists. In Mexico, we have an absolutely perverse situation in which police barely respond in meaningful ways, crime is rampant, criminals are heavily armed and easily obtain weapons, but normal civilians risk going to prison if they should carry even non-lethal weapons for self defense, or use a gun in their home to protect themselves against and assault. Why do the police arrest them more often? Because such people are much easier pickings than a real criminal and it's an opportunity for safe extortion. This is very common, and grotesque. U.S self defense laws are much better as an alternative. Europeans disdain such gun laws, but at least in most European countries where self-defense with weapons is often essentially forbidden, at least the justice system and policing are both functional. In Mexico they emphatically are not, but with the same sorts of highly restrictive laws against civilians who take defense into their own hands. I challenge anyone to defend such a legal landscape.

c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago

>To be honest, it's really hard to articulate to people that still live in the United States. But it feels like the country has turned rotten. I get this feeling on the rare occasion that I watch US news. It feels like wheels have come off. >You feel it any time you interact with a customer service person. My Wife and I were flying business back to the US for our honeymoon on a US carrier. Requests to the flight attendants were met with annoyance. On the few times I've been fortunate enough to fly business with international carriers, you're genuinely appreciated and treated well.

bostonian10 4y ago
>My Wife and I were flying business back to the US for our honeymoon on a US carrier. Requests to the flight attendants were met with annoyance. On the few times I've been fortunate enough to fly business with international carriers, you're genuinely appreciated and treated well. Are you and your wife by any chance not white? My mom is white and my dad is Asian. The difference how they are treated in upscale environments like for example business class at American carriers can very disturbing at times to say the least.

spritefs 4y ago

> But it feels like the country has turned rotten. You feel it any time you interact with a customer service person. Restaurants, stores, especially any kind of "gig economy" service like getting food delivered. They hate serving you and hate their job. A couple months ago I opened up Facebook and saw ads for this company [0]. I immediately think "oh it's just a sham designed to peddle as many ADHD pills as possible" like 5 seconds later (because I'm cynical at this point, sorry). Of course the company denies all wrongdoing and is firmly committed to "helping people" or whatever This dynamic right here: this fake smile in the public's face, all of this fluffy marketing bullshit about "wanting to help people", this is the American disease right here. America might look nice and economically developed from the outside, but it's full of maggots like this on the inside. Much like the above corporation [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/ftc-launches-probe-of-cerebrals-business-practices-11655241983 https://www.wsj.com/articles/ftc-launches-probe-of-cerebrals...