7 ms·

Eh, these are easy fixes. We're making progress daily on making it feel more "native" (i.e recently added present/dismiss animations). Try the demo[0] in your m

Eh, these are easy fixes. We're making progress daily on making it feel more "native" (i.e recently added present/dismiss animations). Try the demo[0] in your mobile browser, should feel pretty smooth. We've tested extensively on a whole range on devices and performance wasn't an issue. It's really the animations (or lack thereof) that make or break perception of "jankiness." What we have now is our first solid functionality-oriented release; next releases focus on tidying up the edges. [0]: https://standardnotes.com/demo https://standardnotes.com/demo

foreverCarlos 4y ago
Depends on the user’s expectations, I guess. The demo you linked does not feel close to native yet. Lots of reflows, small shifts, inconsistent rough animation… even for a web app it’s not smooth enough (iOS Safari)
- dontlaugh 4y ago
  Indeed, compared to any native app it’s terrible. If you care about UX, you should make native apps.
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    You guys are technically correct, but also dead wrong with your outlook They're trying to make a useful app for humans, not trying to win the HackerNews Award for Excellence in UX. If accepting a little unfixable edge case jank makes their goal way easier to attain, they're going to end up with a much better app overall
    - foreverCarlos 4y ago
      I am not trying to nitpick - just giving my honest feedback. This submission is not for a technological breakthrough that I would admire from a theoretical perspective. This problem has been solved many times over the last decade or so. So claiming that _this_ is the future and not the more established (and smooth!) solution has to be supported by at least some evidence.
    - dontlaugh 4y ago
      It’s perfectly reasonable to not care that much about UX. We should however be clear about our trade offs and not pretend that web apps can replace native apps.
      - wiseowise 4y ago
        > pretend that web apps can replace native apps. We don’t need to pretend. Web apps must and already did replace a whole class of apps that never should’ve been native to start with. For example: why would you even need native app for HN?
        dmitriid 4y ago
        Depends on the app. For example, I'm using Wikipedia's excellent native app even though Wikipedia is basically text-and-images only site. I could imagine a nice native app for Hacker News, too
        wiseowise 4y ago
        What does it do that web version won’t be able to?
        dmitriid 4y ago
        I don't lose a tab among hundreds others if I need to reference something. It has all the necessary navigation on-screen (language switch, search inline, table of contents) Don't get me wrong, wikipedia website is also brilliant: fast and reaponsive. The app is simply adjusted to the platform it's on, including all the mobile interactions you've come to expect. For example, there's no hover on mobile. In the app I can tap-hold a link and see the preview that you see on hover on Wikipedia's site.
        dontlaugh 4y ago
        I pretty much never use the HN website, fwiw. The UX is worse than the iOS app Hack. I’d hate to use a web app for maps, notes, document writing, IDE, messaging, etc. I always prefer a good native app to a good website.
    - mromanuk 4y ago
      UX is a real thing. Any user that feel your app is crappy, slow, inconsistent, ugly, breaking OS paradigms, janky. Will just dump it, and just get another one (there are plenty) Users are the real judges giving you the Award of Excellence, any minute they keep using your app
Aaargh20318 4y ago
Tried the demo and it feels like a web ‘app’. Nothing says “I don’t give a crap about our users or the user experience” like building a web app or using a cross-platform toolkit. It telegraphs you mainly care about doing it as cheap as you can instead of just building a good app. The only way to build a decent mobile UX is by making an actual native app. My experience with XP tools is that if you build anything but the most trivial of apps you keep running into issues where you have to do platform specific workarounds. Eventually it becomes an unmaintainable mess of exceptions and workarounds. In the long run it’s faster and easier to just build a native app for each platform. That way you can provide the native UX a user of each platform expects without compromise.
- echelon 4y ago
  > Nothing says “I don’t give a crap about our users or the user experience” like building a web app or using a cross-platform toolkit. It telegraphs you mainly care about doing it as cheap as you can instead of just building a good app. What a better world we'd have if Apple and Google agreed upon a common UI toolkit baseline. I'd rather a small, scrappy company spend their limited resources on solving their core competency and value prop than fitting to these two stupid and needlessly different platforms. Web should have won. It still has a good chance. We should have a "native web" in the future: WASM, hardware renderer access, device control, and more. That'll be the target to develop for. Building for Apple and Android is a total waste of annual human cognitive resources. I hope every company starts doing cross-platform.
  - chii 4y ago
    > Web should have won. the web has won for a lot, but the companies that want to own their ecosystem, and have learnt from their past mistakes. Mobile is a fresh start, and they specifically made it so that web is a 2nd class citizen.
    - steve1977 4y ago
      Web is a 2nd class citizen because it’s designed for documents, not for interactive applications. All the application bits are afterthoughts and bolted on and it shows.
mccorrinall 4y ago
I used this in firefox on ios and the zooming bugs are awful: https://streamable.com/qnxz2z https://streamable.com/qnxz2z
xwowsersx 4y ago
Hmm, I was really intrigued by this post and am thinking about digging into capacitor a bit. It does seem to me, however, that there are often subtle ways in which the fact that an app isn't native bleeds through. For example, trying the demo you linked to: if I click on one of the notes in the list and then swipe right from the edge of the screen in order to go back (gesture navigation), I expected it to behave the same way the arrow in the top left would, but it doesn't and I found myself back on some other website. Maybe it doesn't work like this if I actually download the app on Android?
theCrowing 4y ago
Sorry but it is janky asf... and if it's easy to fix why deploy without said fix. Uninstalled. Unsubscribed. Alone for the condescending tone of this comment. At least the export is easy. sic.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pohuing 4y ago
One more thing to tidy up: your full screen hamburger menu in notes on android chrome/Firefox can't be dismissed with a back button press. Instead that closes the entire app, because apparently you're also missing a navigation stack?

foreverCarlos 4y ago

Depends on the user’s expectations, I guess. The demo you linked does not feel close to native yet. Lots of reflows, small shifts, inconsistent rough animation… even for a web app it’s not smooth enough (iOS Safari)

dontlaugh 4y ago
Indeed, compared to any native app it’s terrible. If you care about UX, you should make native apps.
- Firmwarrior 4y ago
  You guys are technically correct, but also dead wrong with your outlook They're trying to make a useful app for humans, not trying to win the HackerNews Award for Excellence in UX. If accepting a little unfixable edge case jank makes their goal way easier to attain, they're going to end up with a much better app overall
  - foreverCarlos 4y ago
    I am not trying to nitpick - just giving my honest feedback. This submission is not for a technological breakthrough that I would admire from a theoretical perspective. This problem has been solved many times over the last decade or so. So claiming that _this_ is the future and not the more established (and smooth!) solution has to be supported by at least some evidence.
  - dontlaugh 4y ago
    It’s perfectly reasonable to not care that much about UX. We should however be clear about our trade offs and not pretend that web apps can replace native apps.
    - wiseowise 4y ago
      > pretend that web apps can replace native apps. We don’t need to pretend. Web apps must and already did replace a whole class of apps that never should’ve been native to start with. For example: why would you even need native app for HN?
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        Depends on the app. For example, I'm using Wikipedia's excellent native app even though Wikipedia is basically text-and-images only site. I could imagine a nice native app for Hacker News, too
        wiseowise 4y ago
        What does it do that web version won’t be able to?
        dmitriid 4y ago
        I don't lose a tab among hundreds others if I need to reference something. It has all the necessary navigation on-screen (language switch, search inline, table of contents) Don't get me wrong, wikipedia website is also brilliant: fast and reaponsive. The app is simply adjusted to the platform it's on, including all the mobile interactions you've come to expect. For example, there's no hover on mobile. In the app I can tap-hold a link and see the preview that you see on hover on Wikipedia's site.
      - dontlaugh 4y ago
        I pretty much never use the HN website, fwiw. The UX is worse than the iOS app Hack. I’d hate to use a web app for maps, notes, document writing, IDE, messaging, etc. I always prefer a good native app to a good website.
  - mromanuk 4y ago
    UX is a real thing. Any user that feel your app is crappy, slow, inconsistent, ugly, breaking OS paradigms, janky. Will just dump it, and just get another one (there are plenty) Users are the real judges giving you the Award of Excellence, any minute they keep using your app

Aaargh20318 4y ago

Tried the demo and it feels like a web ‘app’. Nothing says “I don’t give a crap about our users or the user experience” like building a web app or using a cross-platform toolkit. It telegraphs you mainly care about doing it as cheap as you can instead of just building a good app. The only way to build a decent mobile UX is by making an actual native app. My experience with XP tools is that if you build anything but the most trivial of apps you keep running into issues where you have to do platform specific workarounds. Eventually it becomes an unmaintainable mess of exceptions and workarounds. In the long run it’s faster and easier to just build a native app for each platform. That way you can provide the native UX a user of each platform expects without compromise.

echelon 4y ago
> Nothing says “I don’t give a crap about our users or the user experience” like building a web app or using a cross-platform toolkit. It telegraphs you mainly care about doing it as cheap as you can instead of just building a good app. What a better world we'd have if Apple and Google agreed upon a common UI toolkit baseline. I'd rather a small, scrappy company spend their limited resources on solving their core competency and value prop than fitting to these two stupid and needlessly different platforms. Web should have won. It still has a good chance. We should have a "native web" in the future: WASM, hardware renderer access, device control, and more. That'll be the target to develop for. Building for Apple and Android is a total waste of annual human cognitive resources. I hope every company starts doing cross-platform.
- chii 4y ago
  > Web should have won. the web has won for a lot, but the companies that want to own their ecosystem, and have learnt from their past mistakes. Mobile is a fresh start, and they specifically made it so that web is a 2nd class citizen.
  - steve1977 4y ago
    Web is a 2nd class citizen because it’s designed for documents, not for interactive applications. All the application bits are afterthoughts and bolted on and it shows.

mccorrinall 4y ago

I used this in firefox on ios and the zooming bugs are awful: https://streamable.com/qnxz2z https://streamable.com/qnxz2z

xwowsersx 4y ago

Hmm, I was really intrigued by this post and am thinking about digging into capacitor a bit. It does seem to me, however, that there are often subtle ways in which the fact that an app isn't native bleeds through. For example, trying the demo you linked to: if I click on one of the notes in the list and then swipe right from the edge of the screen in order to go back (gesture navigation), I expected it to behave the same way the arrow in the top left would, but it doesn't and I found myself back on some other website. Maybe it doesn't work like this if I actually download the app on Android?

theCrowing 4y ago

Sorry but it is janky asf... and if it's easy to fix why deploy without said fix. Uninstalled. Unsubscribed. Alone for the condescending tone of this comment. At least the export is easy. sic.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pohuing 4y ago

One more thing to tidy up: your full screen hamburger menu in notes on android chrome/Firefox can't be dismissed with a back button press. Instead that closes the entire app, because apparently you're also missing a navigation stack?