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After using both, I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux (my favorite: ZorinOS). The advantages of Linux are too many too count and has a lo

After using both, I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux (my favorite: ZorinOS). The advantages of Linux are too many too count and has a lot of customization that can provide some edge. I don't prefer customization anymore, just simplicity but it's a good thing that the options exist. For me, I think these are the main issues with MacOS that ZorinOS doesn't out of the box: > No screen edge tiling, spend more time managing application windows > Inconsistent keyboard shortcuts, cmd and ctrl are used interchangeably for no reason (Biggest issue). Why do I need to do Ctrl+Tab to switch tabs but Cmd+T to create tabs? Why is History not Cmd/Ctrl+H in browsers? I need to memorize more shortcuts on MacOS for no reason, when it could very well just do it all with a single modifier key. > Hidden dock doesn't appear unless I smash my cursor on the bottom edge. Dock Autohide is very finicky, ZorinOS' way is much more graceful and natural. > No HDMI volume control > Maximizing an app takes you to a totally new desktop > Switching desktop animation is a bit too slow > No window closing animations, but has window opening animations. Feels really unpolished > Single click on dock to maximize the app but clicking maximized app doesn't minimize it. Why? > Ctrl + Alt +T doesn't open terminal, it's like oxygen to me. > Can't set VSCode to open with Ctrl + Alt + C. > Can't set custom global shortcuts at all, even windows can to some extent > Can't highlight text in terminal or anywhere to paste with middle click mouse button. > Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? > The shell startup time is too much on MacOS. I have to wait for a second for the shell to load before I start typing my commands. On Linux, pressing Ctrl+Alt+T and writing commands right away feels so good! > No package manager by default, brew is honestly very slow compared to Linux solutions. MacOS isn't unusable of course, I'd prefer it over Windows anyday but it just introduces a lot of UX friction Linux desktop just doesn't.

oxfordmale 4y ago
Usually Infosec forces the use of MacBooks over Linux laptops as they find the latter harder to secure.
- nix23 4y ago
  >find the latter harder to secure. I hope those "Infosec's" don't have Linux servers to secure ;)
  - oxfordmale 4y ago
    The Linux instances are hosted on AWS and as such the responsibility of the SRE team :-) It is harder to find anti virus software that runs on Linux, at least I am told.
    - nix23 4y ago
      >anti virus software Ah the snakeoil that drive a whole industry ;)
  - lima 4y ago
    Linux servers don't usually travel the world. MDM tooling is pretty bad for Linux. You can make it work but it requires more effort than most corp teams are willing to put up with.
    - nix23 4y ago
      >Linux servers don't usually travel the world. True but often 24x7 connected to the world...but yeah you are right, not often do you loose a whole server ;)
  - bri3d 4y ago
    Endpoint security and production security are totally different things, usually done by different groups, with different threat models. I also wouldn't characterize it as "harder to secure" but rather "extra work to support." A homogenous endpoint fleet makes all IT tasks significantly easier, and endpoint management tools for Linux tend to be less mature and more difficult to work with.
    - hyperman1 4y ago
theusus 4y ago
Software support for Mac is really good. A lot of apps I use are Mac only or aren’t there on Linux.
- Keyframe 4y ago
  software development apps?
  - theusus 4y ago
    Some yes, like editors But others are productivity software like Craft, Bear, and Etc. Currently I am using Zed editor that is Mac only for now.
- Jorengarenar 4y ago
  Honestly, I suspect the same could be said for Linux
- NayamAmarshe 4y ago
  Well, a lot of software that I use is not on MacOS either. Lutris for example. But yes, MacOS' software support is good because more people have Macs and there is also a lot of money to be made there but MacOS' DX/UX support is okay. Not great, not bad, just okay. I personally think Linux nailed the DX.
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  User software support for the Mac is really good. Engineering and development tools are on the whole far better supported under Linux. I spend most of my time in Linux VMs in cloud, or in Docker etc running Linux now to do the $work I need, despite having a powerful 64GB M1 Macbook Pro issued by work. Why? Because that's what our production environment is. And that's where the right versions of things are. Oh and fighting with Homebrew etc sucks. That it's 2022 and Apple ships a Unix without a modern Unix packaging system is ridiculous. Almost all professional dev types working on MacOS are using brew or similar systems -- why has Apple not noticed this and fixed their distribution/packaging system, which remains a throwback to 1990s Unix/NeXTStep? At this point the Macbook itself I use primarily as a web browser and Zoom meeting joining tool. (And it's far better at this than my Linux laptop, which gave me constant headaches with multimonitor support etc).
Jorengarenar 4y ago
>I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux I wish I could use Linux on my work laptop, unfortunately we aren't given such option. Had it not been for WSL, perhaps I'd request a MacBook.
stevekemp 4y ago
I've worked in positions where I've been told "choose your operating system", and places where I've been told "Mac or Windows". Usually the latter comes down to the company having group-policies, or mandatory compliance software managed centrally. Sometimes I've picked Linux and had to jump through hoops installing anti-virus, or other similar things. Given the choice I'd pick Linux every time, but if that's not an option and I want the job then Mac is a good fallback. I'd rather quit my job - and have done so - than run Windows.
- NayamAmarshe 4y ago
  > I'd rather quit my job - and have done so - than run Windows. Chad!
  - wing-_-nuts 4y ago
    Kind of a silly hill to die on with WSL, but it's not my career.
    - stevekemp 4y ago
      I'm "devops" these days, but I before that I was sysadmin. I always preferred to run a similar OS to those systems I managed. These days with immutable containers, etc, it matters less. But a decent shell, the ability to run automation tools easily, etc makes a difference. I know that WSL allows most things, and many devops tools are written in golang/rust, which are available for Windows, but I started at a time when Ruby, Perl, puppet, cfengine, etc, etc were basically not decent options on Windows. I keep up, I use AWS, kubernetes, etc, but I'm used to flexible, scriptable, and predictable working environment - and for me that means Linux.
    - mathstuf 4y ago
      WSL doesn't help solve the lack of decent window management at all. I hate managing window sizes and overlaps; it's why I use a tiling window manager than handles such things for me. There is now tiling support for the others, but they are so manual as to be useless IMO. The focus stealing proclivities of both macOS and Windows for new application windows can also go die in a fire as far as I'm concerned.
Entinel 4y ago
I use all three operating systems on an almost daily basis and from my experience things on a Mac tend to just work and Linux things tend to just stop working for no reason. Bluetooth is an example that immediately jumps out at me.
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  Everything works as long as you stay in the apple ecosystem. I had this weird problem where my wife's macbook was backing up all the photos and videos from google photos to icloud. I know nothing about macs, I got a mbp over a decade ago and put linux on it as soon as I figured out how. I found it quite harrowing figuring out how to remove all that from icloud, and prevent it from happening again. It still gives very odd errors seemingly related to what was probably an incorrect fix.
- FredPret 4y ago
  Or scanning or printing or audio or wifi or just the window system itself
alphameese 4y ago
I use MacOS for development, and I too was used to a tiling wm on linux. Yabai[1] as a wm and skhd[2] were totally necessary. It's a bit of a pain to install, but once it's set up it's been completely frictionless for me. [1] https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai [2] https://github.com/koekeishiya/skhd https://github.com/koekeishiya/skhd
- cauthon 4y ago
  How do these compare to Rectangle?
  - jpcrs 4y ago
    In my experience, Rectangle is just an app to organize apps like Windows does, hotkeys to move somewhere. Yabai is a more complete windows manager. It has some features like: - Automatic Tiling, Stack or Floating windows - Shortcuts to move between windows based on position (like other tiling wms) - Create, move and destroy workspaces - Move apps to specific workspaces - Windows borders Plus it integrates really well with https://github.com/Jean-Tinland/simple-bar https://github.com/Jean-Tinland/simple-bar
- llimllib 4y ago
  disabling SIP is a non-starter for me, I use Amethyst[1] and it's simple and Fine Enough For Me™ [1]: https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst/ https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst/
  - edejong 4y ago
    I’m using it too, but it is very unreliable. I need to restart the program often once a day.
  - jpcrs 4y ago
    I also choose to not disable SIP. The only thing that I miss is being able to disable animations, besides that I'm using it just fine, not as good as i3 but good enough for me.
CSDude 4y ago
All of these are minor features. Mac just works and apps look gorgeous. I love my Arch, but even the simplest Linux distro requires more work than a mac. Even getting an equivalent font rendering is hard. Even the most Linux compatible Dells and Thinkpads have issues that made me frustrated often. I love any Linux package manager and window manager over Mac, but random issues that require tweaking is a lot.
- NayamAmarshe 4y ago
  > just works and apps look gorgeous. I've had mostly the same experience on ZorinOS. It just works, never crashed on me, never made me spend hours fixing some weird bug. All my hardware is fortunately well supported. But yeah, I'd give MacOS more scores on the UI design. > getting an equivalent font rendering is hard I haven't had any such issues and I don't use Arch because ZorinOS provides me everything out of the box.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  Inconsistent shortcut keys doesn’t look like a minor issue to me. It was a long list anyway, having that many “minor issues” is a major issue.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    No, it’s really a sign that someone has built a very picky, idiosyncratic workflow and is unwilling to adapt to other systems. This isn’t a complaint about Macs. It’s a complaint about anything that doesn’t exactly match what the user already has.
    - hnlmorg 4y ago
      Why should they have to adapt though. Computers are supposed to work for us, not the other way around. The issue with macs is that it’s very difficult to adapt it to suit any preferences one might have in their own workflow. I’m not someone who spends much time configuring computers but as much as I will argue in favour of sane defaults, sometimes things do just boil down to personal preference. Apple make it very difficult to change things. (Microsoft, unfortunately, seem to be taking inspiration from Apple too).
nvahalik 4y ago
Most of your issues are easily addressable/have workarounds. Alfred || Karabiner will cover your keyboard issues. > cmd and ctrl are used interchangeably Not sure which apps you are talking about, but I've not encountered any apps that use Ctrl-T to open a new tab. They are all Cmd-T.
cschmatzler 4y ago
Because the hardware is just so, so much better. I would absolutely prefer running Linux, but nothing comparable exists. Running yabai for tiling window management isn’t great, but it’s ok.
- code-blooded 4y ago
  This used to be true, but no more. There's a lot of great hardware built for Linux or officially compatible with Linux. I'll just list a few comparable to MBP 16" since that's what I'm most familiar with: * StarLabs Starfighter * ThinkPad X1 Carbon Extreme * TUXEDO Computers InfinityBook Pro 16"
caseyf 4y ago
for me it's: hardware: M1/M2(!!), display, touchpad. hard to imagine wanting any laptop that's not Apple silicon right now. unsure if getting my dual displays working(Apple Studio Display, LG Ultrafine) will be a pita on linux
- hk1337 4y ago
  > unsure if getting my dual displays working(Apple Studio Display, LG Ultrafine) will be a pita on linux My guess would be because you're going from an OS that handled everything for you to a completely customizable OS like ArchLinux. I have never had issues getting dual displays to work on Fedora. I have 2 Benq displays connected via thunderbolt on Fedora now and have done similar with the LG Ultrafine.
- redditor98654 4y ago
  Not sure about this Apple displays. But I have driven dual 4K displays off of my HP Elitebook 850 g7. I have actually gone back to 2K displays and I find those better for programming. I am currently running 3 2K displays (all of them massive 32 inch) via a single cable to my docking station. I also have a thinkpad t420s this can do the same. Both of them running Ubuntu 22.04
- fsdjkflsjfsoij 4y ago
  Getting dual displays "working" is pretty trivial. Getting those two both working at the same time with the correct resolutions, DPI and fractional scaling will probably be close to impossible.
- diffeomorphism 4y ago
  M1 granted, but display? It is appropriate for a 1500+ device, but nothing special.
armatav 4y ago
Honestly because wrapping up an Arch config after 2 hours of tinkering and realizing your headphones don’t work because of esoteric driver issues is a key factor. Linux is terrible on desktop - but it’s beautiful for everything else.
- wing-_-nuts 4y ago
  I cannot for the life of me understand why someone who values their time would choose an arch based distro. Arch devs have zero sense of accountability to their userbase. A few months back, there was an issue with the master build of grub that would leave computers unbootable. It just so happened that the arch devs were using the master branch because nobody wanted to back port some security fixes. Instead of owning up to the issue and apologizing, we got some lame half-assed excuses days after the event. When I asked the security dev about it, he patronized my concerns and told me I would be better off on an 'easier' distro. I immediately formatted my drive and installed pop os, and I have had exactly zero issues since. Linux is fine on the desktop. Arch, however, is terrible.
- bombolo 4y ago
  > Honestly because wrapping up an Arch config after 2 hours of tinkering and realizing your headphones don’t work because of esoteric driver issues is a key factor. Don't use arch if you are not prepared to configure it yourself.
  - armatav 4y ago
    Just don’t use Arch
hk1337 4y ago
macOS seems like it is becoming, unless you're an Apple developer, unfriendly for development, IMO. There's ways to get things done but it seems like you have to go through a lot of hoops to get it working. I really like macOS but I am slowly moving towards Fedora on the laptop and Windows 11 with WSL on the desktop. For general use and macOS/iOS development, definitely the former, macOS is far superior, IMO.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > macOS seems like it is becoming, unless you're an Apple developer, unfriendly for development, IMO. It has become unfriendly for Apple development too. Increasing lockdown, endless permission prompts, bugs piling up into a mountain, and the forced OS updates required by Xcode.
terhechte 4y ago
It's really interesting. Most of your reasons for preferring Linux are the same reasons why I prefer macOS. In the end, it is really about habit. For context, I've used Desktop Linux from 1996 till 1998, 2002 till 2007 and tried again for the past two years with a Ryzen desktop. The main reasons that bring me back to macOS (apart from the M1 / M2 hardware): - I much much much prefer the macOS keyboard shortcut setup. Command+C works everywhere. On Linux, Ctrl+C works most of the time, but sometimes it's Ctrl+Shift+C or something else. I run into this far too often because I'm a create of habit. - I also enjoy that basically all apps adhere to the same keyboard shortcuts. E.g. Command+T for new tab works not just in Terminal, but in every tabbed app. - I haven't found a way to customise Gnome or KDE so that application switching with Expose / Mission Control works as fluid as on the Mac. I use this all the time to go to different windows. - I like that the package manager is separate from the operating system. More than once have I run into a Linux situation where I had weird package conflicts and it was super tricky to get out of it. With Brew I just reinstall it and I'm done.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  The predictability of having a particular keyboard shortcut do the exact same thing in Every. Single. Application. cannot be overstated. The benefits to your flow and productivity just from this simple convention are immeasurable.
breuleux 4y ago
> Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? Because Ctrl+T swaps the two characters around the cursor, which is what it should do in a terminal (and in Mac OS, it does this in all text boxes in all applications). Mac OS is actually remarkably consistent about all of this. In Linux, Ctrl+A goes to the beginning of the line in a terminal, but it selects all text in other applications. In Mac, Ctrl+A goes to the beginning of the line, everywhere.
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  That's because macOS (thanks to its NeXT origins) incorporates emacs keybindings throughout most text fields by default.
  - nicpottier 4y ago
    This is a weird but so so killer feature to me. Our lives are constantly about text editing in one way or another, having all the usual ways of navigating text available across the entire OS is the best feature of all.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      Ditto, having consistent and useful text-editing keybindings in ~all fields (that use the native toolkit, at least) was something I didn't know I needed until I experienced it. Anything that's (even) less consistent than the real-world experience of that on MacOS feels... wrong, now.
    - kitsunesoba 4y ago
      I use this feature frequently too, but the downside is that it makes non-native textboxes stick out like sore thumbs because they don't implement it. In fact, this is common to a lot of little poweruser features on macOS, and I think is a big driver of distaste towards non-native apps by long-time Mac users.
- katbyte 4y ago
Hamuko 4y ago
Having observed colleagues use a variety of Linux computers for development (back when I still went to an office), these are the issues that I observed Linux devs struggle with that Macs devs didn't: > Computer refuses to communicate with the dock. > Bluetooth audio doesn't work. > Screen resolutions get fucked when reconnecting monitors.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  I haven't had these problems in 4+ years (since Ubuntu 18.04 LTS). I used to have occasional Bluetooth & screen resolution/inconsistent positioning problem with my work computer and, I fixed them using 1-liner scripts bound to keyboard shortcuts (restarting bluez, and calling xrandr with the right args), but this was a lifetime ago, during the v3.x/v4.x kernel days.
Jtsummers 4y ago
> Maximizing an app takes you to a totally new desktop No, it doesn't. Fullscreening an app window takes you to a new desktop, or to be more precise, makes it fullscreen. If you just maximize it, it stays in the same desktop. > Single click on dock to maximize the app but clicking maximized app doesn't minimize it. Why? I have never seen that behavior. Single clicking on the dock selects the application, but does not maximize any windows. > Ctrl + Alt +T doesn't open terminal, it's like oxygen to me. Using iTerm, double tap command (this is an option you have to enable) will bring up a terminal. It is great. > Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? This one shouldn't be too shocking if you're familiar with terminals. In the terminal, the control characters are passed through intact to the terminal itself to do whatever it needs to do. Hijacking them for application (the terminal emulator itself) control would be bad behavior.
- omegabravo 4y ago
  > If you just maximize it, it stays in the same desktop The behaviour must be inconsistent then, because I just clicked the green icon on edge, safari and vscode and it popped me off to a new virtual window. double clicking the title bar will maximise it vertically on Safari, and full screen on vscode and edge
  - Jtsummers 4y ago
    That's not the maximize button, hover over it and you'll see an "enter full screen" text pop up with two other options (fullscreen with another application, one on the left and the other on the right). It hasn't been the maximize button for something like a decade now. Double clicking the title bar is not making VS Code fullscreen or moving it to a new virtual desktop on my computer, it just maximizes the window (or restores it once maximized). I have zero desire to use Edge so I'll let someone else work with you on that.
  - sbuk 4y ago
    Mac’s and macOS (all the way back to 1985 and ‘System 1’) has never had the concept of maximising windows. What you are referring to too, and what the green button does, is makes the current window (not necessarily app) full screen. All this predates the behaviours described that are followed by Windows and other OSS desktops. Neither is better, both depend on habit and familiarity. For some of us that used Mac’s since the 80’s, the Windows approach is a complete anathema. Organising the workspace into neat grids is not something many of need or have missed - that’s not to say that it’s pointless, but it doesn’t necessarily fit the workflow of macOS. As mentioned, there are myriad tools, most of them free, to add the behaviours that you seek.
eknkc 4y ago
I gave Linux a honest shot when my previous macbook keyboard died, however I could not make it work. - Last time I tried, Linux could not do proper fractional scaling. I use 4k 27" displays and wish to use 1.5x scaling. macOS does it perfectly, Windows does it perfectly. Linux does all kinds of shitty stuff. Never could get it working properly. You either get blurry scaling or screen tearing and shit. - Scroll inertia thing is fucked on Linux. Trackpads are not fun to use. - I love clipboard managers, keeping history of clipboard, allowing search in previous entries etc. All solutions on Linux have been simply bad. And as far as I can tell, it is not even possible to properly do it on wayland. - Laptops do not sleep properly. I tried 2 different devices, more than once they heated up in my backpack. I can't have that. Note that I'm not a foreigner to Linux. I've been running and loving Linux servers my entire life and I can get around stuff pretty fine. I just don't have the stamina to deal with desktop linux.
- geethree 4y ago
  Re: scaling Genuinely curious did xrandr not work for you? I have the same setup and use 1.5 scaling. (Ubuntu focal).
  - grogenaut 4y ago
    When you get to multi displays with different native dot pitches you start running into issues. I have not been able to easily get my laptop to handle it's 4k internal monitor and a 2560x1440 external smoothly. Issues occur when I unplug the monitor and debugging microscopic 4k fonts isn't fun. Nor is 75 arcane commands from the internet and 14 ui tools that don't quite do what I need. This happens on Mac and windows but on windows I just use force resolution on the Nvidia driver to add one extra mode, and on Mac switch res x did it. So sadly Mac is my main good travel PC option.
    - geethree 4y ago
      Yeah I need to tweak a bit between xrandr scaling and xdg dpi, then force specific apps as well. Not ideal, but enough tweaking got it done.
alex_smart 4y ago
>I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux I turn the lid down on my laptop and it goes to sleep. It pull it up and the system comes back up. Reliably. Every single time. I guess that narrows my choices down to Windows and MacOS. Between them I find it much harder to choose, but Macs just have a solid lead on the hardware front for now. The M1/M2 chips are just chef's kiss. And I don't know why most Windows laptops come with such junk webcams. Edit: I almost forgot! Linux still doesn't have hardware accelerated video playback on browsers. How can anybody recommend using linux on their laptop despite this is beyond me. Is this a joke? Like do you guys just always keep your laptops plugged in all day? Why not just get a desktop at that point?
- the_gipsy 4y ago
  Windows doesn't sleep well. Starts to spin up fans randomly in backpack, battery drains.
- leni536 4y ago
  I do have hardware accelerated video playback on Firefox on Linux. AFAIK it's easier to set up on Wayland, but I have it working on X. edit: Maybe I'm super lucky, but I rarely had problems with suspend on Linux. Having said that I prefer no suspend on closing the lid, and AFAIK that's not an option on MacOS.
  - garethrowlands 4y ago
    Pretty sure it's an option if you have an external monitor attached. If not, why would you close your laptop if not to turn it off?
    - Delk 4y ago
      I sometimes find it more convenient to carry a laptop to the meeting room or to a separate teleconferencing space (or even to the couch at home) with the lid closed. Especially if I'm also carrying something in my other hand.
snowpid 4y ago
I use Gnome desktop as it is very well designed (my opinion the best UX of all existing desktops, MAC OS is too much legacy). Only GTK is very weird to code (at least in python, neither Vala nor GTK-C are a good replacement).
Joeri 4y ago
For me I switched from a thinkpad running linux to an m1 macbook air for these reasons: - safari (for testing and debugging, not daily driving) - mobile app dev for iOS - nicer hardware experience than any linux laptop I know of (superior screen with perfect hidpi support, best trackpad, actual all day battery life, top-notch performance) without any major compromises for my needs - full hardware compatibility without any fiddling (my thinkpad required regular fiddling to deal with the fingerprint sensor and runaway power drain) I don’t run into any of the issues you mention, but I use a very trackpad/mouse-oriented way of navigating because my brain refuses to remember lots of shortcuts, and I have an assortment of mac utility apps that fill the gaps (like moom for window tiling).
CalChris 4y ago
I need a laptop of roughly the build quality of an M1 MacBook Air supported at roughly the level of OSX with a UI more or less equal to Aqua. I tried putting a Mint on a late model Dell a few years ago and swore off Linux on a laptop for a few more years. It has to just work. There's a lot to like in Linux, particularly in the Cloud but it still has to just work on a laptop.
Someone 4y ago
> Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? I don’t see what’s inconsistent there. Cmd+key sends a command to your terminal application, Ctrl+key sends a command to a process running in your terminal. That’s why, for example, Cmd+C copies selected text in your terminal window, while Ctrl-Y yanks text in many applications (including many shells, via readline).
deleted 4y ago
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twawaaay 4y ago
> After using both, I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux I have used Linux as my main driver on all my desktops and laptops between 1999 and 2021 until I migrated to Macbook Pro. The simple reason is that maintaining basic operating system to do the basic things it should be doing should not be taking so much of my time. I am sick and tired of fixing another audio, wifi or power usage issue because package maintainers decided they have a different idea or spend time fixing my graphics driver every couple of months at the most inopportune time. I need to be able to open my laptop and reliably be able to continue with my work, is that so much to ask for? So I switched to MacOS and for now I could not be happier. Setting up some things is as frustrating as it has always been for me but at least once I do it it tends to keep working.
- jpcrs 4y ago
  Exactly the same here. One day, once again my ThinkPad stopped sleeping and the sound started clacking. I decided it was enough for me and I bought a Mac. There are still some design choices from MacOS that I don't get, things I wish I could customize, but I definetely don't regret my decision.
acchow 4y ago
> No HDMI volume control Linux has HDMI volume control? Interesting. This piqued my curiosity and I wondered if Linux supports ReadyPlay and other DRM standards to support higher bitrate and higher resolution Netflix streaming. It does not. You can only get a low bitrate, awfully blocky and distorted (although pretty high resolution 720p) on Linux. The resolution is useless tho because the bitrate is so low.
- TacticalCoder 4y ago
  > This piqued my curiosity and I wondered if Linux supports ReadyPlay and other DRM standards to support higher bitrate and higher resolution Netflix streaming. I pay for my Netflix subscription. And when I want to watch a movie on my projector, I first torrent it (fiber optic, takes two minutes top), then play it. No random Internet issue. I torrent the x264 "webRIP" which I figure out is basically the film I paid for the right to watch using my subscription. I'm not a "data hoarder" / movie collector: I watch the movie then delete it. Same for series. I started doing this after I upgraded my Netflix subscription to a higher tier then noticed streaming quality on OS X was still crap.
  - acchow 4y ago
    > then noticed streaming quality on OS X was still crap. If you’re using Safari, streaming quality will be the same on OS X as on your smart TV. If you use Chrome or another browser, yeah quality does suck. Chrome does not support the DRM that the studios require for higher bitrate streaming
- andrewmackrodt 4y ago
  For Netflix at least, you can receive 1080p under non supported configurations by using a browser extension. Last time I checked, non-os default browsers are always 720p, which includes Google Chrome. There are extensions for Firefox and chromium browsers for 1080p playback. However, 4K is limited to Edge on Windows and Safari on macOS. I may be missing the intended point, but AFAIK neither Windows nor Linux support HDMI volume control (I use all 3 regularly, but only Windows and Linux over HDMI). My Nvidia GPU is connected to a 4K 120Hz TV using HDMI for audio, the TV volume controls are independent of the OS volume settings. Unless OP meant macOS doesn't allow setting the volume independently of the HDMI device.
shric 4y ago
I know you're comparing "out of the box", but I don't think that's fair as developers spend ages customising everything anyway (dotfiles, etc.) and there are plenty of things macOS can do "out of the box" that most Linux distributions can't. If I haven't quoted one of your items, it means I agree with it, but... > No screen edge tiling, spend more time managing application windows Yes, but you can install Hammerspoon or similar. > Inconsistent keyboard shortcuts, cmd and ctrl are used interchangeably for no reason (Biggest issue). Why do I need to do Ctrl+Tab to switch tabs but Cmd+T to create tabs? Why is History not Cmd/Ctrl+H in browsers? I need to memorize more shortcuts on MacOS for no reason, when it could very well just do it all with a single modifier key. Control-T (and many control-foo combinations) is already used in terminals. It's a standard emacs binding to transpose characters. > Maximizing an app takes you to a totally new desktop Agree, this is horrible, so I use Hammerspoon. > Ctrl + Alt +T doesn't open terminal, it's like oxygen to me. You can set any bindings like this up with Hammerspoon. > Can't set VSCode to open with Ctrl + Alt + C. You can set any bindings like this up with Hammerspoon. > Can't set custom global shortcuts at all, even windows can to some extent You can, with Hammerspoon. > Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? This was addressed above. Likewise it would be really annoying if Ctrl + C was to copy text in a terminal instead of being interrupt. > The shell startup time is too much on MacOS. I have to wait for a second for the shell to load before I start typing my commands. On Linux, pressing Ctrl+Alt+T and writing commands right away feels so good! I don't have this problem, not sure why you do. I can open a terminal instantly and start writing instantly. As for why I use macOS, I actually use it only on my laptops (personal and work) because I find non-mac laptops ergonomically dreadful in comparison (e.g. trackpad, etc.). I know this is subjective and I'm sure plenty of people feel the opposite. I use Linux (with i3) on my desktop.
- Krisando 4y ago
  I'm not the grand parent, but your comment stuck out to me. > I don't think that's fair as developers spend ages customising everything anyway I've got into development. I use KDE Neon now and really, the only thing I customize on a new install is left single and double click defaults in the OS, changing system performance mode to prefer performance over battery and install the IDE and Yakuake for a better terminal. Other than that, the starting development for me is literally just installing the IDE, cloning the repository and opening the project file (and the IDE will pull in all the dependencies, linter settings automatically). > I can open a terminal instantly and start writing instantly. One of the best things about Yakuake I love is that it's literally that. Hit F12, multi-tab terminal slides down like the old quake console (yes, that's where the name came from).
asciimov 4y ago
If you work with non-developers you will often need full fat MS Office, Adobe Products, and other Mac/Windows apps. Also, I get less flack from the IT department if I'm on something standard.
etchalon 4y ago
Linux is a great environment if you just write code and use web apps. It quickly becomes subpar once you have to use commercial applications, and can be a massive productivity drain after an update breaks some core feature of your hardware. "Oh, neat. I applied a small patch and now I don't have audio."
shamiln 4y ago
Having used Linux recently, Zorin as well, what I found was that MacOS I don’t need to fight to get things done. Not just that, but the quality and support for apps I use is much better. Things just feel more coherent. When things don’t work on Linux, the last thing I want to do is open the terminal.
NobodyNada 4y ago
I currently use Mac. I’ve thought about switching to Linux (would be Arch + Plasma) — there’s a lot of things that bug me about Mac, but there’s a few major things that would badly break my workflow if I tried to switch: - I’m used to a trackpad. I only had laptops growing up and never used a mouse; now, I can move the cursor very precisely on a trackpad, but I’m very inaccurate with a mouse. macOS’s trackpad support is miles beyond every other OS, in every aspect. - I love the command key. There was a discussion just the other day on HN about how much more ergonomic it is to press modifiers with your thumbs; having to frequently reach over to control would be awkward to me. And having the command key for OS-level shortcuts be a different key than the control key for shortcuts in terminal apps is incredible, because I don’t have to memorize weird new shortcuts for basic functions like copy/paste/opening tabs in terminal apps. Perhaps I could swap the control and GUI keys on Linux, but I’d still have a lot of keyboard shortcuts to relearn, and I’d have to figure out what to do about terminal applications. - I use a lot of music production software that’s Mac-only, so the best I could do is dual-boot, not leave macOS completely. Still, last year it was time to upgrade my computer, and I was thinking about biting the bullet and making the switch because I wasn’t looking forward to buying a terrible butterfly keyboard touch bar Mac. But then the M1 MBP came out. Maybe I’ll switch my workflows to Asahi Linux eventually, but it would take a lot of effort unless someone knows a good way to make these things less painful — especially the command keys.
- seanw444 4y ago
  As for the music production part, my favorite DAW is Studio One (which is sadly Windows-only, and I prefer Linux). So I just have a mostly untouched (except for music-related software) high-performance Windows VM set up (CPU core isolation, GPU passthrough, that kinda setup) that I boot up when making music. I'm looking forward to Zrythm gaining more and more features and becoming an adequate alternative to mainstream DAWs.
flohofwoe 4y ago
> I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux For me it all comes down to the touchpad experience. Excellent on Macs, shitty on Linux laptops (and it's not just shitty touchpad hardware, but the combination of hardware and driver). Most of your other points are just the regular differences between systems. If you're used to one, it's hard to get used to another (personally I like working on macOS more than Windows or Linux, and I need to switch regularly between all three).
- TheCowboy 4y ago
  I find this weird because I really miss having the thumb buttons from the Thinkpad touchpads. If it's a trackpad without buttons, then Mac does have an edge, but trackpad support under Ubuntu was fine.
pjmlp 4y ago
A well thought out OS framework, modern programming languages, doesn't shove UNIX on our face, don't need to hunt for what devices work or not on some obcure Internet forums and howtos, a productive graphics API where developer productivity is taken into consideration,...
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
I don't understand it either. It can be a little rough around the edges but it's also a user-respecting breath of fresh air and a dream to develop on.
jmspring 4y ago
Simple - for things I care about - a GUI and integrating with things like printers, docs, and I am generally in the apple ecosystem - Linux is not worth my time to manage for day to day use on a laptop. I'm also well familiar with how to use/manage/install Linux on a variety of hardware (been doing it for a couple decades) as well as other Unices (ran BSD on a thinkpad for years and helped patch a wifi driver to support it). For some people, we don't want to dicker with getting Linux to just work. Yes, Docker on MacOS sucks and there are other tradeoffs. But the day to day management of not having to deal with drivers, sleep issues, etc. it's Mac over Linux for me.
boredtofears 4y ago
I agreed with everything up until you actually listed your reasons - everything you listed is tantamount to personal preferences that doesn't have much to do with development. I prefer linux dev because docker doesn't have to run in a VM and I'm closer to developing on the platform that I actually deploy on. That's it, those are the only two reasons.
kube-system 4y ago
There's issues with every OS, but I really can't stand the power management, thermal issues, and input driver issues I've had on many windows and linux laptops. There is nothing more frustrating than being tethered to a wall, while my laptop throttles, and I have to try every touchpad input 3 times to get it to work right.
PathOfEclipse 4y ago
I always prefer Linux over MacOS. That said, Linux on laptops has been a tremendous pain in my experience. There are simply too many non-standard parts and custom drivers to make laptops work and Linux struggles to enable you to use your laptop in ways that you would expect to out of the box. Case in point: 1) I chose the route of entirely disabling nvidia and using the built-in intell graphics cards. This was probably a mistake in hindsight. I did it because I wanted to use less battery, but, so much stuff seemed to work sub-optimally. 2) For chrome in particular, I had to jump through a lot of hoops just to get it to render things properly and play videos. This had knock-on effects with chromium apps like slack and zoom. I never got Zoom the app working on Linux, but was forced instead to use the browser version. 3) I ended up having to install a non-stock kernel to get a lot of things working. 4) I remember running into issues with sleep not working. I don't even remember exactly what I had to do to fix, but, it's another example of something a MacOS user will never have to think about. Anways, I prefer Linux over MacOS so much that I was willing to experience a ton of pain to use it, but I could not honestly recommend it to others at the time. I hope it's gotten better since a few years ago, but I would be very surprised to hear it has. Each new generation of laptops brings new custom chipsets, hardware, etc. with no formal Linux support.
- rg111 4y ago
  > "Linux on laptops has been a tremendous pain in my experience. " Using Linux ~99.9% of times at both work and personal use for the last five years. 0.1% is Windows, because PowerPoint. Using Pop OS (NVIDIA) for the last 2.5 years, and Linux Mint before that. I have near zero issues, and spent contiguous months and years without any Linux Evenings [0]. Had 3-4 Linux Evenings in these 5 years. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34013195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34013195
  - einpoklum 4y ago
    > 0.1% is Windows, because PowerPoint. I was about to say: "Why not just use LibreOffice Impress?" - but the truth is that it's still far away from qualifying as a Powerpoint replacement. LO Writer has really gotten its act together over the years, and now handles Word documents very well and is a worthy replacement - Impress not as much. So, I urge you to spend a little time trying to open your PPT presentations in Impress, and if/when you see issues with it - complain about them! As an active LO user (https://events.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-conference-2022/speaker/WHDWTF/ https://events.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-conference...) I feel the user base is not putting enough pressure on developers to put focus on Impress polish. Also, donations help: https://www.libreoffice.org/donate/ https://www.libreoffice.org/donate/ ... then maybe in a couple of years you could ditch PowerPoint and make your 99.9% into 100%.
yamtaddle 4y ago
My reason is that I spent about a decade using Linux as my main OS, only to finally try macOS/OSX (a workplace gave me a Macbook) and, after a couple months of adjustment, realize what a colossal amount of time & attention I'd been wasting with Linux, working around things that didn't function reliably or fussing here and there with things to make them work. I'd been totally blind to it until I saw how the other half lived. Now when I try to go back it's all I can see. Such experiments rarely last a week these days, though in some sense I still know Linux much better than I know MacOS, so it should have an advantage. > No screen edge tiling, spend more time managing application windows > Maximizing an app takes you to a totally new desktop Spectacle or any of several other programs solves these. It's the only major piece of customization I do on any new Mac. First thing I install after Homebrew. I almost never manage windows with the mouse. One might object, "but that's not default!" but then Mac also catches shit for not being customizable, yet here I am, customizing it, so IDK, doesn't seem like a real objection if the proposed alternative is Linux where customization tends to be even more fiddly than that. FWIW Spectacle's not given me one single problem or glitch in something like eight or nine years of use. Install, grant accessibility permissions to it, use its menu to set it to start at launch, never think about it again until I set up a new Mac. I think there are, separately, also ways to change the behavior of the maximize button (in fact I think I used to use such a customization, before I discovered Spectacle) > Hidden dock doesn't appear unless I smash my cursor on the bottom edge. Dock Autohide is very finicky, ZorinOS' way is much more graceful and natural. As a hidden dock/taskbar lover since Win95 I'm not sure what you mean. I've not noticed a difference between its behavior and every other I've set to hidden, which includes most consumer versions of Windows, a couple server versions of same, plus XFCE, Gnome (1+), and KDE (2+) on Linux. But I've also never heard of ZorinOS so maybe it's doing something unique (and maybe really nice!) > No window closing animations, but has window opening animations. Feels really unpolished I just tried "new window" in a couple programs to see if I could figure out what you mean—maybe there's an animation and I'd just become blind to it. Still don't see it, steps to reproduce? > Single click on dock to maximize the app but clicking maximized app doesn't minimize it. Why? You don't minimize or maximize apps, but windows. Clicking an app in the dock focuses it, un-minimizing (not sure what you mean by "maximizing", here?) its active window if necessary. Doesn't seem inconsistent to me, and is probably a lot less surprising/annoying than if clicking an app that had all its windows minimized didn't restore any of them, or if clicking an app (interpreted by the OS as "foreground this thing", basically) instead minimized its windows (which one? All of them? If some are minimized already, then WTF? Swap them?). I mean, if you click on a pinned app that's not running, it launches the app—would you expect that clicking the dock icon a second time terminate the app? > Ctrl + Alt +T doesn't open terminal, it's like oxygen to me. > Can't set VSCode to open with Ctrl + Alt + C. I don't fiddle with more advanced ways to map shortcuts in macOS (I've done less customization of everything in general, as I get older) but I'm like 99% sure these are easy fixes. Maybe not something exposed in settings, but still, easy to fix. And it's so workflow- or preference-specific that I don't think making it a default would be reasonable. I just launch everything with search on every platform these days, personally, but that's a matter of taste. > The shell startup time is too much on MacOS. I have to wait for a second for the shell to load before I start typing my commands. On Linux, pressing Ctrl+Alt+T and writing commands right away feels so good! Default Terminal app's pretty damn fast. I only find this to be the case if I've got a really heavy zsh config or something like that. > No package manager by default, brew is honestly very slow compared to Linux solutions. Brew's my overall favorite package manager I've ever used, and I've used a ton. Admittedly, though, a lot of that is because I really like having a strict separation between what's necessary for my desktop to basically function, and what my package manager is allowed to monkey with. Tastes vary, I suppose. And it does have a package manager by default, you just don't like it (and neither do I)—it's the App Store. ----- Anyway, the real killer feature of Mac devices is this: When, in a professional setting, your Mac doesn't work, Tim Cook's an asshole. When your Linux workstation doesn't work, you're an asshole. That's not my judgement—it's what I've observed about how the two situations are perceived. If the Mac "doesn't work" less often (very much the case for me, but YMMV) that's just a bonus.
albertop 4y ago
Hardware and MacOS is the only platform with modern chipset.
c7b 4y ago
One more: > brew doesn't support multiple users (really [0]) [0] https://www.codejam.info/2021/11/homebrew-multi-user.html https://www.codejam.info/2021/11/homebrew-multi-user.html
JodieBenitez 4y ago
> After using both, I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux (my favorite: ZorinOS). Why I use it: I just never had any good hardware for a linux laptop and I hate to tinker with configuration. There's always things that work so-so with linux laptops. Macbook gives good hardware, excellent system integration and I like the defaults out of the box. None of the things you listed have importance for me. I would probably use a linux distro on a desktop machine though. Linux is great to revive old macbooks that are no longer supported by Apple though. Linux mint on 10 years macbooks works great.
pdimitar 4y ago
> No HDMI volume control Wait, Linux allows you this?! How?
oneplane 4y ago
Because as soon as you need a stable experience for your workforce and do more than just write code (i.e. be responsible for also being human, integrating with the company, write documents and presentations that others can work on using familiar tools, use video conferencing, and do it the entire day while being mobile/on the move, most hardware isn't going to keep up, and the hardware that is will be hard to get running right with Linux or BSD. While it can be done if you're careful, it's a time/resource sink that really adds no benefit for the larger whole of the engineering effort within a company. On top of that, the minor personal preferences of a workstations should really not be much of an issue in your professional career. It's not like you can tell all your customers, suppliers and colleagues to do things differently just because that's more comfortable for you. Nobody will pay for that. The few people that do run whatever they want, however they want, have a much larger liability and much less support, but they are free to do so. In the event that friction is introduced due to the choices of anyone within the department, it's up to the non-standard one to address it. This gives everyone enough freedom but prevents unrealistic expectations.
jb3689 4y ago
I love using Linux from a platform perspective, but it has been terrible from a usability perspective. Awkward default keybinds, broken software all of the place (e.g. anti-blue tinting), twitchy trackpads that require constant reconfiguring vs. just being excellent out of the box, power savings just works and doesn't require explicit configuration. I find Macs terrible to run software on/write software for/fix by hand, but I think they're great for text editing and navigation which is how I spend the vast majority of my time
MikeLumos 4y ago
I switched to mac after about 10 years on linux, and I'm not going back. I'm also very annoyed by most of the things you have listed, but there are two things that are a deciding factor in favor of mac for me: 1. In addition to webdev I sometimes need to do design, graphics, 3D art, and on linux most of the software just doesn't work. There's absolutely zero chance I'd be willing to cope with GIMP and Inkscape instead of using Photoshop and Affinity designer. There's a lot of other software (for screen recording and video editing, for instance), that works on mac and doesn't on linux. 2. On mac, things just work. On linux there's more customization, and open source software, but you pay for it dearly by having to spend hours (sometimes days) tinkering with configs and installing dependencies every time you're trying to get anything to work. I didn't mind that before, but at this point, I'm too old for this sh*t. I just want my laptop to work and help me do my work and make stuff, I don't want to cross my fingers and pray every time I need to install something I need to get anything done.
sdf4j 4y ago
> Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? As a heavy terminal user this bothers me a lot.. Control+T and Control+C has very special use for the shell. I don't want a terminal "app" taking over those bindings for a misc feature. I don't get why the Meta key is rarely used in Linux desktops.
deleted 4y ago
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sircastor 4y ago
The short version for me is that in every corporate environment where I’ve been using Linux as a daily driver (Ubuntu), I have had Canonical recommended updates catastrophically break my install. That is, I see an update pop up, I install the recommended packages, and the next time I boot I cannot reach the desktop. Or WiFi doesn’t work anymore, or I have to switch to Nvidia drivers instead of the open source ones. And of course the company doesn’t have IT support for Linux, I have yet to work for one that does - there are always plenty of coworkers who are willing to help, but now two people are not getting work done. These machines have been normal Dell Desktops and Laptops. Normal LTS versions of Ubuntu. It has happened enough that I don’t trust Linux as a desktop system for whatever computer I’m using. I can absolutely use it, I’m comfortable on the command line. I want Linux to be reliable for me as a desktop system. It’s the dream of truest owning your computing. But I haven’t had that experience yet. MacOS is certainly not perfect, but I’m very happy with it, and it feels reliable to me.
rvz 4y ago
> After using both, I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux (my favorite: ZorinOS). The simple answer is both Apple hardware and software support is well defined and is the gold standard. Linux Desktop software support on the other hand is ill defined and even if the hardware claims to have support, it somewhat worse than macOS or even Windows thanks to the inconsistency of the Linux desktop stack letting it down. This has been an eternal problem with the Linux desktop, and at this point you might as well use Windows with WSL2, since that is the best 'Linux Desktop'.

oxfordmale 4y ago

Usually Infosec forces the use of MacBooks over Linux laptops as they find the latter harder to secure.

nix23 4y ago
>find the latter harder to secure. I hope those "Infosec's" don't have Linux servers to secure ;)
- oxfordmale 4y ago
  The Linux instances are hosted on AWS and as such the responsibility of the SRE team :-) It is harder to find anti virus software that runs on Linux, at least I am told.
  - nix23 4y ago
    >anti virus software Ah the snakeoil that drive a whole industry ;)
- lima 4y ago
  Linux servers don't usually travel the world. MDM tooling is pretty bad for Linux. You can make it work but it requires more effort than most corp teams are willing to put up with.
  - nix23 4y ago
    >Linux servers don't usually travel the world. True but often 24x7 connected to the world...but yeah you are right, not often do you loose a whole server ;)
- bri3d 4y ago
  Endpoint security and production security are totally different things, usually done by different groups, with different threat models. I also wouldn't characterize it as "harder to secure" but rather "extra work to support." A homogenous endpoint fleet makes all IT tasks significantly easier, and endpoint management tools for Linux tend to be less mature and more difficult to work with.
  - hyperman1 4y ago

theusus 4y ago

Software support for Mac is really good. A lot of apps I use are Mac only or aren’t there on Linux.

Keyframe 4y ago
software development apps?
- theusus 4y ago
  Some yes, like editors But others are productivity software like Craft, Bear, and Etc. Currently I am using Zed editor that is Mac only for now.
Jorengarenar 4y ago
Honestly, I suspect the same could be said for Linux
NayamAmarshe 4y ago
Well, a lot of software that I use is not on MacOS either. Lutris for example. But yes, MacOS' software support is good because more people have Macs and there is also a lot of money to be made there but MacOS' DX/UX support is okay. Not great, not bad, just okay. I personally think Linux nailed the DX.
cmrdporcupine 4y ago
User software support for the Mac is really good. Engineering and development tools are on the whole far better supported under Linux. I spend most of my time in Linux VMs in cloud, or in Docker etc running Linux now to do the $work I need, despite having a powerful 64GB M1 Macbook Pro issued by work. Why? Because that's what our production environment is. And that's where the right versions of things are. Oh and fighting with Homebrew etc sucks. That it's 2022 and Apple ships a Unix without a modern Unix packaging system is ridiculous. Almost all professional dev types working on MacOS are using brew or similar systems -- why has Apple not noticed this and fixed their distribution/packaging system, which remains a throwback to 1990s Unix/NeXTStep? At this point the Macbook itself I use primarily as a web browser and Zoom meeting joining tool. (And it's far better at this than my Linux laptop, which gave me constant headaches with multimonitor support etc).

Jorengarenar 4y ago

>I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux I wish I could use Linux on my work laptop, unfortunately we aren't given such option. Had it not been for WSL, perhaps I'd request a MacBook.

stevekemp 4y ago

I've worked in positions where I've been told "choose your operating system", and places where I've been told "Mac or Windows". Usually the latter comes down to the company having group-policies, or mandatory compliance software managed centrally. Sometimes I've picked Linux and had to jump through hoops installing anti-virus, or other similar things. Given the choice I'd pick Linux every time, but if that's not an option and I want the job then Mac is a good fallback. I'd rather quit my job - and have done so - than run Windows.

NayamAmarshe 4y ago
> I'd rather quit my job - and have done so - than run Windows. Chad!
- wing-_-nuts 4y ago
  Kind of a silly hill to die on with WSL, but it's not my career.
  - stevekemp 4y ago
    I'm "devops" these days, but I before that I was sysadmin. I always preferred to run a similar OS to those systems I managed. These days with immutable containers, etc, it matters less. But a decent shell, the ability to run automation tools easily, etc makes a difference. I know that WSL allows most things, and many devops tools are written in golang/rust, which are available for Windows, but I started at a time when Ruby, Perl, puppet, cfengine, etc, etc were basically not decent options on Windows. I keep up, I use AWS, kubernetes, etc, but I'm used to flexible, scriptable, and predictable working environment - and for me that means Linux.
  - mathstuf 4y ago
    WSL doesn't help solve the lack of decent window management at all. I hate managing window sizes and overlaps; it's why I use a tiling window manager than handles such things for me. There is now tiling support for the others, but they are so manual as to be useless IMO. The focus stealing proclivities of both macOS and Windows for new application windows can also go die in a fire as far as I'm concerned.

Entinel 4y ago

I use all three operating systems on an almost daily basis and from my experience things on a Mac tend to just work and Linux things tend to just stop working for no reason. Bluetooth is an example that immediately jumps out at me.

galangalalgol 4y ago
Everything works as long as you stay in the apple ecosystem. I had this weird problem where my wife's macbook was backing up all the photos and videos from google photos to icloud. I know nothing about macs, I got a mbp over a decade ago and put linux on it as soon as I figured out how. I found it quite harrowing figuring out how to remove all that from icloud, and prevent it from happening again. It still gives very odd errors seemingly related to what was probably an incorrect fix.
FredPret 4y ago
Or scanning or printing or audio or wifi or just the window system itself

alphameese 4y ago

I use MacOS for development, and I too was used to a tiling wm on linux. Yabai[1] as a wm and skhd[2] were totally necessary. It's a bit of a pain to install, but once it's set up it's been completely frictionless for me. [1] https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai [2] https://github.com/koekeishiya/skhd https://github.com/koekeishiya/skhd

cauthon 4y ago
How do these compare to Rectangle?
- jpcrs 4y ago
  In my experience, Rectangle is just an app to organize apps like Windows does, hotkeys to move somewhere. Yabai is a more complete windows manager. It has some features like: - Automatic Tiling, Stack or Floating windows - Shortcuts to move between windows based on position (like other tiling wms) - Create, move and destroy workspaces - Move apps to specific workspaces - Windows borders Plus it integrates really well with https://github.com/Jean-Tinland/simple-bar https://github.com/Jean-Tinland/simple-bar
llimllib 4y ago
disabling SIP is a non-starter for me, I use Amethyst[1] and it's simple and Fine Enough For Me™ [1]: https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst/ https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst/
- edejong 4y ago
  I’m using it too, but it is very unreliable. I need to restart the program often once a day.
- jpcrs 4y ago
  I also choose to not disable SIP. The only thing that I miss is being able to disable animations, besides that I'm using it just fine, not as good as i3 but good enough for me.

CSDude 4y ago

All of these are minor features. Mac just works and apps look gorgeous. I love my Arch, but even the simplest Linux distro requires more work than a mac. Even getting an equivalent font rendering is hard. Even the most Linux compatible Dells and Thinkpads have issues that made me frustrated often. I love any Linux package manager and window manager over Mac, but random issues that require tweaking is a lot.

NayamAmarshe 4y ago
> just works and apps look gorgeous. I've had mostly the same experience on ZorinOS. It just works, never crashed on me, never made me spend hours fixing some weird bug. All my hardware is fortunately well supported. But yeah, I'd give MacOS more scores on the UI design. > getting an equivalent font rendering is hard I haven't had any such issues and I don't use Arch because ZorinOS provides me everything out of the box.
bee_rider 4y ago
Inconsistent shortcut keys doesn’t look like a minor issue to me. It was a long list anyway, having that many “minor issues” is a major issue.
- twblalock 4y ago
  No, it’s really a sign that someone has built a very picky, idiosyncratic workflow and is unwilling to adapt to other systems. This isn’t a complaint about Macs. It’s a complaint about anything that doesn’t exactly match what the user already has.
  - hnlmorg 4y ago
    Why should they have to adapt though. Computers are supposed to work for us, not the other way around. The issue with macs is that it’s very difficult to adapt it to suit any preferences one might have in their own workflow. I’m not someone who spends much time configuring computers but as much as I will argue in favour of sane defaults, sometimes things do just boil down to personal preference. Apple make it very difficult to change things. (Microsoft, unfortunately, seem to be taking inspiration from Apple too).

nvahalik 4y ago

Most of your issues are easily addressable/have workarounds. Alfred || Karabiner will cover your keyboard issues. > cmd and ctrl are used interchangeably Not sure which apps you are talking about, but I've not encountered any apps that use Ctrl-T to open a new tab. They are all Cmd-T.

cschmatzler 4y ago

Because the hardware is just so, so much better. I would absolutely prefer running Linux, but nothing comparable exists. Running yabai for tiling window management isn’t great, but it’s ok.

code-blooded 4y ago
This used to be true, but no more. There's a lot of great hardware built for Linux or officially compatible with Linux. I'll just list a few comparable to MBP 16" since that's what I'm most familiar with: * StarLabs Starfighter * ThinkPad X1 Carbon Extreme * TUXEDO Computers InfinityBook Pro 16"

caseyf 4y ago

for me it's: hardware: M1/M2(!!), display, touchpad. hard to imagine wanting any laptop that's not Apple silicon right now. unsure if getting my dual displays working(Apple Studio Display, LG Ultrafine) will be a pita on linux

hk1337 4y ago
> unsure if getting my dual displays working(Apple Studio Display, LG Ultrafine) will be a pita on linux My guess would be because you're going from an OS that handled everything for you to a completely customizable OS like ArchLinux. I have never had issues getting dual displays to work on Fedora. I have 2 Benq displays connected via thunderbolt on Fedora now and have done similar with the LG Ultrafine.
redditor98654 4y ago
Not sure about this Apple displays. But I have driven dual 4K displays off of my HP Elitebook 850 g7. I have actually gone back to 2K displays and I find those better for programming. I am currently running 3 2K displays (all of them massive 32 inch) via a single cable to my docking station. I also have a thinkpad t420s this can do the same. Both of them running Ubuntu 22.04
fsdjkflsjfsoij 4y ago
Getting dual displays "working" is pretty trivial. Getting those two both working at the same time with the correct resolutions, DPI and fractional scaling will probably be close to impossible.
diffeomorphism 4y ago
M1 granted, but display? It is appropriate for a 1500+ device, but nothing special.

armatav 4y ago

Honestly because wrapping up an Arch config after 2 hours of tinkering and realizing your headphones don’t work because of esoteric driver issues is a key factor. Linux is terrible on desktop - but it’s beautiful for everything else.

wing-_-nuts 4y ago
I cannot for the life of me understand why someone who values their time would choose an arch based distro. Arch devs have zero sense of accountability to their userbase. A few months back, there was an issue with the master build of grub that would leave computers unbootable. It just so happened that the arch devs were using the master branch because nobody wanted to back port some security fixes. Instead of owning up to the issue and apologizing, we got some lame half-assed excuses days after the event. When I asked the security dev about it, he patronized my concerns and told me I would be better off on an 'easier' distro. I immediately formatted my drive and installed pop os, and I have had exactly zero issues since. Linux is fine on the desktop. Arch, however, is terrible.
bombolo 4y ago
> Honestly because wrapping up an Arch config after 2 hours of tinkering and realizing your headphones don’t work because of esoteric driver issues is a key factor. Don't use arch if you are not prepared to configure it yourself.
- armatav 4y ago
  Just don’t use Arch

hk1337 4y ago

macOS seems like it is becoming, unless you're an Apple developer, unfriendly for development, IMO. There's ways to get things done but it seems like you have to go through a lot of hoops to get it working. I really like macOS but I am slowly moving towards Fedora on the laptop and Windows 11 with WSL on the desktop. For general use and macOS/iOS development, definitely the former, macOS is far superior, IMO.

lapcat 4y ago
> macOS seems like it is becoming, unless you're an Apple developer, unfriendly for development, IMO. It has become unfriendly for Apple development too. Increasing lockdown, endless permission prompts, bugs piling up into a mountain, and the forced OS updates required by Xcode.

terhechte 4y ago

It's really interesting. Most of your reasons for preferring Linux are the same reasons why I prefer macOS. In the end, it is really about habit. For context, I've used Desktop Linux from 1996 till 1998, 2002 till 2007 and tried again for the past two years with a Ryzen desktop. The main reasons that bring me back to macOS (apart from the M1 / M2 hardware): - I much much much prefer the macOS keyboard shortcut setup. Command+C works everywhere. On Linux, Ctrl+C works most of the time, but sometimes it's Ctrl+Shift+C or something else. I run into this far too often because I'm a create of habit. - I also enjoy that basically all apps adhere to the same keyboard shortcuts. E.g. Command+T for new tab works not just in Terminal, but in every tabbed app. - I haven't found a way to customise Gnome or KDE so that application switching with Expose / Mission Control works as fluid as on the Mac. I use this all the time to go to different windows. - I like that the package manager is separate from the operating system. More than once have I run into a Linux situation where I had weird package conflicts and it was super tricky to get out of it. With Brew I just reinstall it and I'm done.

ryandrake 4y ago
The predictability of having a particular keyboard shortcut do the exact same thing in Every. Single. Application. cannot be overstated. The benefits to your flow and productivity just from this simple convention are immeasurable.

breuleux 4y ago

> Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? Because Ctrl+T swaps the two characters around the cursor, which is what it should do in a terminal (and in Mac OS, it does this in all text boxes in all applications). Mac OS is actually remarkably consistent about all of this. In Linux, Ctrl+A goes to the beginning of the line in a terminal, but it selects all text in other applications. In Mac, Ctrl+A goes to the beginning of the line, everywhere.

Jtsummers 4y ago
That's because macOS (thanks to its NeXT origins) incorporates emacs keybindings throughout most text fields by default.
- nicpottier 4y ago
  This is a weird but so so killer feature to me. Our lives are constantly about text editing in one way or another, having all the usual ways of navigating text available across the entire OS is the best feature of all.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Ditto, having consistent and useful text-editing keybindings in ~all fields (that use the native toolkit, at least) was something I didn't know I needed until I experienced it. Anything that's (even) less consistent than the real-world experience of that on MacOS feels... wrong, now.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    I use this feature frequently too, but the downside is that it makes non-native textboxes stick out like sore thumbs because they don't implement it. In fact, this is common to a lot of little poweruser features on macOS, and I think is a big driver of distaste towards non-native apps by long-time Mac users.
katbyte 4y ago

Hamuko 4y ago

Having observed colleagues use a variety of Linux computers for development (back when I still went to an office), these are the issues that I observed Linux devs struggle with that Macs devs didn't: > Computer refuses to communicate with the dock. > Bluetooth audio doesn't work. > Screen resolutions get fucked when reconnecting monitors.

sangnoir 4y ago
I haven't had these problems in 4+ years (since Ubuntu 18.04 LTS). I used to have occasional Bluetooth & screen resolution/inconsistent positioning problem with my work computer and, I fixed them using 1-liner scripts bound to keyboard shortcuts (restarting bluez, and calling xrandr with the right args), but this was a lifetime ago, during the v3.x/v4.x kernel days.

Jtsummers 4y ago

> Maximizing an app takes you to a totally new desktop No, it doesn't. Fullscreening an app window takes you to a new desktop, or to be more precise, makes it fullscreen. If you just maximize it, it stays in the same desktop. > Single click on dock to maximize the app but clicking maximized app doesn't minimize it. Why? I have never seen that behavior. Single clicking on the dock selects the application, but does not maximize any windows. > Ctrl + Alt +T doesn't open terminal, it's like oxygen to me. Using iTerm, double tap command (this is an option you have to enable) will bring up a terminal. It is great. > Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? This one shouldn't be too shocking if you're familiar with terminals. In the terminal, the control characters are passed through intact to the terminal itself to do whatever it needs to do. Hijacking them for application (the terminal emulator itself) control would be bad behavior.

omegabravo 4y ago
> If you just maximize it, it stays in the same desktop The behaviour must be inconsistent then, because I just clicked the green icon on edge, safari and vscode and it popped me off to a new virtual window. double clicking the title bar will maximise it vertically on Safari, and full screen on vscode and edge
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  That's not the maximize button, hover over it and you'll see an "enter full screen" text pop up with two other options (fullscreen with another application, one on the left and the other on the right). It hasn't been the maximize button for something like a decade now. Double clicking the title bar is not making VS Code fullscreen or moving it to a new virtual desktop on my computer, it just maximizes the window (or restores it once maximized). I have zero desire to use Edge so I'll let someone else work with you on that.
- sbuk 4y ago
  Mac’s and macOS (all the way back to 1985 and ‘System 1’) has never had the concept of maximising windows. What you are referring to too, and what the green button does, is makes the current window (not necessarily app) full screen. All this predates the behaviours described that are followed by Windows and other OSS desktops. Neither is better, both depend on habit and familiarity. For some of us that used Mac’s since the 80’s, the Windows approach is a complete anathema. Organising the workspace into neat grids is not something many of need or have missed - that’s not to say that it’s pointless, but it doesn’t necessarily fit the workflow of macOS. As mentioned, there are myriad tools, most of them free, to add the behaviours that you seek.

eknkc 4y ago

I gave Linux a honest shot when my previous macbook keyboard died, however I could not make it work. - Last time I tried, Linux could not do proper fractional scaling. I use 4k 27" displays and wish to use 1.5x scaling. macOS does it perfectly, Windows does it perfectly. Linux does all kinds of shitty stuff. Never could get it working properly. You either get blurry scaling or screen tearing and shit. - Scroll inertia thing is fucked on Linux. Trackpads are not fun to use. - I love clipboard managers, keeping history of clipboard, allowing search in previous entries etc. All solutions on Linux have been simply bad. And as far as I can tell, it is not even possible to properly do it on wayland. - Laptops do not sleep properly. I tried 2 different devices, more than once they heated up in my backpack. I can't have that. Note that I'm not a foreigner to Linux. I've been running and loving Linux servers my entire life and I can get around stuff pretty fine. I just don't have the stamina to deal with desktop linux.

geethree 4y ago
Re: scaling Genuinely curious did xrandr not work for you? I have the same setup and use 1.5 scaling. (Ubuntu focal).
- grogenaut 4y ago
  When you get to multi displays with different native dot pitches you start running into issues. I have not been able to easily get my laptop to handle it's 4k internal monitor and a 2560x1440 external smoothly. Issues occur when I unplug the monitor and debugging microscopic 4k fonts isn't fun. Nor is 75 arcane commands from the internet and 14 ui tools that don't quite do what I need. This happens on Mac and windows but on windows I just use force resolution on the Nvidia driver to add one extra mode, and on Mac switch res x did it. So sadly Mac is my main good travel PC option.
  - geethree 4y ago
    Yeah I need to tweak a bit between xrandr scaling and xdg dpi, then force specific apps as well. Not ideal, but enough tweaking got it done.

alex_smart 4y ago

>I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux I turn the lid down on my laptop and it goes to sleep. It pull it up and the system comes back up. Reliably. Every single time. I guess that narrows my choices down to Windows and MacOS. Between them I find it much harder to choose, but Macs just have a solid lead on the hardware front for now. The M1/M2 chips are just chef's kiss. And I don't know why most Windows laptops come with such junk webcams. Edit: I almost forgot! Linux still doesn't have hardware accelerated video playback on browsers. How can anybody recommend using linux on their laptop despite this is beyond me. Is this a joke? Like do you guys just always keep your laptops plugged in all day? Why not just get a desktop at that point?

the_gipsy 4y ago
Windows doesn't sleep well. Starts to spin up fans randomly in backpack, battery drains.
leni536 4y ago
I do have hardware accelerated video playback on Firefox on Linux. AFAIK it's easier to set up on Wayland, but I have it working on X. edit: Maybe I'm super lucky, but I rarely had problems with suspend on Linux. Having said that I prefer no suspend on closing the lid, and AFAIK that's not an option on MacOS.
- garethrowlands 4y ago
  Pretty sure it's an option if you have an external monitor attached. If not, why would you close your laptop if not to turn it off?
  - Delk 4y ago
    I sometimes find it more convenient to carry a laptop to the meeting room or to a separate teleconferencing space (or even to the couch at home) with the lid closed. Especially if I'm also carrying something in my other hand.

snowpid 4y ago

I use Gnome desktop as it is very well designed (my opinion the best UX of all existing desktops, MAC OS is too much legacy). Only GTK is very weird to code (at least in python, neither Vala nor GTK-C are a good replacement).

Joeri 4y ago

For me I switched from a thinkpad running linux to an m1 macbook air for these reasons: - safari (for testing and debugging, not daily driving) - mobile app dev for iOS - nicer hardware experience than any linux laptop I know of (superior screen with perfect hidpi support, best trackpad, actual all day battery life, top-notch performance) without any major compromises for my needs - full hardware compatibility without any fiddling (my thinkpad required regular fiddling to deal with the fingerprint sensor and runaway power drain) I don’t run into any of the issues you mention, but I use a very trackpad/mouse-oriented way of navigating because my brain refuses to remember lots of shortcuts, and I have an assortment of mac utility apps that fill the gaps (like moom for window tiling).

CalChris 4y ago

I need a laptop of roughly the build quality of an M1 MacBook Air supported at roughly the level of OSX with a UI more or less equal to Aqua. I tried putting a Mint on a late model Dell a few years ago and swore off Linux on a laptop for a few more years. It has to just work. There's a lot to like in Linux, particularly in the Cloud but it still has to just work on a laptop.

Someone 4y ago

> Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? I don’t see what’s inconsistent there. Cmd+key sends a command to your terminal application, Ctrl+key sends a command to a process running in your terminal. That’s why, for example, Cmd+C copies selected text in your terminal window, while Ctrl-Y yanks text in many applications (including many shells, via readline).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

twawaaay 4y ago

> After using both, I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux I have used Linux as my main driver on all my desktops and laptops between 1999 and 2021 until I migrated to Macbook Pro. The simple reason is that maintaining basic operating system to do the basic things it should be doing should not be taking so much of my time. I am sick and tired of fixing another audio, wifi or power usage issue because package maintainers decided they have a different idea or spend time fixing my graphics driver every couple of months at the most inopportune time. I need to be able to open my laptop and reliably be able to continue with my work, is that so much to ask for? So I switched to MacOS and for now I could not be happier. Setting up some things is as frustrating as it has always been for me but at least once I do it it tends to keep working.

jpcrs 4y ago
Exactly the same here. One day, once again my ThinkPad stopped sleeping and the sound started clacking. I decided it was enough for me and I bought a Mac. There are still some design choices from MacOS that I don't get, things I wish I could customize, but I definetely don't regret my decision.

acchow 4y ago

> No HDMI volume control Linux has HDMI volume control? Interesting. This piqued my curiosity and I wondered if Linux supports ReadyPlay and other DRM standards to support higher bitrate and higher resolution Netflix streaming. It does not. You can only get a low bitrate, awfully blocky and distorted (although pretty high resolution 720p) on Linux. The resolution is useless tho because the bitrate is so low.

TacticalCoder 4y ago
> This piqued my curiosity and I wondered if Linux supports ReadyPlay and other DRM standards to support higher bitrate and higher resolution Netflix streaming. I pay for my Netflix subscription. And when I want to watch a movie on my projector, I first torrent it (fiber optic, takes two minutes top), then play it. No random Internet issue. I torrent the x264 "webRIP" which I figure out is basically the film I paid for the right to watch using my subscription. I'm not a "data hoarder" / movie collector: I watch the movie then delete it. Same for series. I started doing this after I upgraded my Netflix subscription to a higher tier then noticed streaming quality on OS X was still crap.
- acchow 4y ago
  > then noticed streaming quality on OS X was still crap. If you’re using Safari, streaming quality will be the same on OS X as on your smart TV. If you use Chrome or another browser, yeah quality does suck. Chrome does not support the DRM that the studios require for higher bitrate streaming
andrewmackrodt 4y ago
For Netflix at least, you can receive 1080p under non supported configurations by using a browser extension. Last time I checked, non-os default browsers are always 720p, which includes Google Chrome. There are extensions for Firefox and chromium browsers for 1080p playback. However, 4K is limited to Edge on Windows and Safari on macOS. I may be missing the intended point, but AFAIK neither Windows nor Linux support HDMI volume control (I use all 3 regularly, but only Windows and Linux over HDMI). My Nvidia GPU is connected to a 4K 120Hz TV using HDMI for audio, the TV volume controls are independent of the OS volume settings. Unless OP meant macOS doesn't allow setting the volume independently of the HDMI device.

shric 4y ago

I know you're comparing "out of the box", but I don't think that's fair as developers spend ages customising everything anyway (dotfiles, etc.) and there are plenty of things macOS can do "out of the box" that most Linux distributions can't. If I haven't quoted one of your items, it means I agree with it, but... > No screen edge tiling, spend more time managing application windows Yes, but you can install Hammerspoon or similar. > Inconsistent keyboard shortcuts, cmd and ctrl are used interchangeably for no reason (Biggest issue). Why do I need to do Ctrl+Tab to switch tabs but Cmd+T to create tabs? Why is History not Cmd/Ctrl+H in browsers? I need to memorize more shortcuts on MacOS for no reason, when it could very well just do it all with a single modifier key. Control-T (and many control-foo combinations) is already used in terminals. It's a standard emacs binding to transpose characters. > Maximizing an app takes you to a totally new desktop Agree, this is horrible, so I use Hammerspoon. > Ctrl + Alt +T doesn't open terminal, it's like oxygen to me. You can set any bindings like this up with Hammerspoon. > Can't set VSCode to open with Ctrl + Alt + C. You can set any bindings like this up with Hammerspoon. > Can't set custom global shortcuts at all, even windows can to some extent You can, with Hammerspoon. > Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? This was addressed above. Likewise it would be really annoying if Ctrl + C was to copy text in a terminal instead of being interrupt. > The shell startup time is too much on MacOS. I have to wait for a second for the shell to load before I start typing my commands. On Linux, pressing Ctrl+Alt+T and writing commands right away feels so good! I don't have this problem, not sure why you do. I can open a terminal instantly and start writing instantly. As for why I use macOS, I actually use it only on my laptops (personal and work) because I find non-mac laptops ergonomically dreadful in comparison (e.g. trackpad, etc.). I know this is subjective and I'm sure plenty of people feel the opposite. I use Linux (with i3) on my desktop.

Krisando 4y ago
I'm not the grand parent, but your comment stuck out to me. > I don't think that's fair as developers spend ages customising everything anyway I've got into development. I use KDE Neon now and really, the only thing I customize on a new install is left single and double click defaults in the OS, changing system performance mode to prefer performance over battery and install the IDE and Yakuake for a better terminal. Other than that, the starting development for me is literally just installing the IDE, cloning the repository and opening the project file (and the IDE will pull in all the dependencies, linter settings automatically). > I can open a terminal instantly and start writing instantly. One of the best things about Yakuake I love is that it's literally that. Hit F12, multi-tab terminal slides down like the old quake console (yes, that's where the name came from).

asciimov 4y ago

If you work with non-developers you will often need full fat MS Office, Adobe Products, and other Mac/Windows apps. Also, I get less flack from the IT department if I'm on something standard.

etchalon 4y ago

Linux is a great environment if you just write code and use web apps. It quickly becomes subpar once you have to use commercial applications, and can be a massive productivity drain after an update breaks some core feature of your hardware. "Oh, neat. I applied a small patch and now I don't have audio."

shamiln 4y ago

Having used Linux recently, Zorin as well, what I found was that MacOS I don’t need to fight to get things done. Not just that, but the quality and support for apps I use is much better. Things just feel more coherent. When things don’t work on Linux, the last thing I want to do is open the terminal.

NobodyNada 4y ago

I currently use Mac. I’ve thought about switching to Linux (would be Arch + Plasma) — there’s a lot of things that bug me about Mac, but there’s a few major things that would badly break my workflow if I tried to switch: - I’m used to a trackpad. I only had laptops growing up and never used a mouse; now, I can move the cursor very precisely on a trackpad, but I’m very inaccurate with a mouse. macOS’s trackpad support is miles beyond every other OS, in every aspect. - I love the command key. There was a discussion just the other day on HN about how much more ergonomic it is to press modifiers with your thumbs; having to frequently reach over to control would be awkward to me. And having the command key for OS-level shortcuts be a different key than the control key for shortcuts in terminal apps is incredible, because I don’t have to memorize weird new shortcuts for basic functions like copy/paste/opening tabs in terminal apps. Perhaps I could swap the control and GUI keys on Linux, but I’d still have a lot of keyboard shortcuts to relearn, and I’d have to figure out what to do about terminal applications. - I use a lot of music production software that’s Mac-only, so the best I could do is dual-boot, not leave macOS completely. Still, last year it was time to upgrade my computer, and I was thinking about biting the bullet and making the switch because I wasn’t looking forward to buying a terrible butterfly keyboard touch bar Mac. But then the M1 MBP came out. Maybe I’ll switch my workflows to Asahi Linux eventually, but it would take a lot of effort unless someone knows a good way to make these things less painful — especially the command keys.

seanw444 4y ago
As for the music production part, my favorite DAW is Studio One (which is sadly Windows-only, and I prefer Linux). So I just have a mostly untouched (except for music-related software) high-performance Windows VM set up (CPU core isolation, GPU passthrough, that kinda setup) that I boot up when making music. I'm looking forward to Zrythm gaining more and more features and becoming an adequate alternative to mainstream DAWs.

flohofwoe 4y ago

> I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux For me it all comes down to the touchpad experience. Excellent on Macs, shitty on Linux laptops (and it's not just shitty touchpad hardware, but the combination of hardware and driver). Most of your other points are just the regular differences between systems. If you're used to one, it's hard to get used to another (personally I like working on macOS more than Windows or Linux, and I need to switch regularly between all three).

TheCowboy 4y ago
I find this weird because I really miss having the thumb buttons from the Thinkpad touchpads. If it's a trackpad without buttons, then Mac does have an edge, but trackpad support under Ubuntu was fine.

pjmlp 4y ago

A well thought out OS framework, modern programming languages, doesn't shove UNIX on our face, don't need to hunt for what devices work or not on some obcure Internet forums and howtos, a productive graphics API where developer productivity is taken into consideration,...

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

I don't understand it either. It can be a little rough around the edges but it's also a user-respecting breath of fresh air and a dream to develop on.

jmspring 4y ago

Simple - for things I care about - a GUI and integrating with things like printers, docs, and I am generally in the apple ecosystem - Linux is not worth my time to manage for day to day use on a laptop. I'm also well familiar with how to use/manage/install Linux on a variety of hardware (been doing it for a couple decades) as well as other Unices (ran BSD on a thinkpad for years and helped patch a wifi driver to support it). For some people, we don't want to dicker with getting Linux to just work. Yes, Docker on MacOS sucks and there are other tradeoffs. But the day to day management of not having to deal with drivers, sleep issues, etc. it's Mac over Linux for me.

boredtofears 4y ago

I agreed with everything up until you actually listed your reasons - everything you listed is tantamount to personal preferences that doesn't have much to do with development. I prefer linux dev because docker doesn't have to run in a VM and I'm closer to developing on the platform that I actually deploy on. That's it, those are the only two reasons.

kube-system 4y ago

There's issues with every OS, but I really can't stand the power management, thermal issues, and input driver issues I've had on many windows and linux laptops. There is nothing more frustrating than being tethered to a wall, while my laptop throttles, and I have to try every touchpad input 3 times to get it to work right.

PathOfEclipse 4y ago

I always prefer Linux over MacOS. That said, Linux on laptops has been a tremendous pain in my experience. There are simply too many non-standard parts and custom drivers to make laptops work and Linux struggles to enable you to use your laptop in ways that you would expect to out of the box. Case in point: 1) I chose the route of entirely disabling nvidia and using the built-in intell graphics cards. This was probably a mistake in hindsight. I did it because I wanted to use less battery, but, so much stuff seemed to work sub-optimally. 2) For chrome in particular, I had to jump through a lot of hoops just to get it to render things properly and play videos. This had knock-on effects with chromium apps like slack and zoom. I never got Zoom the app working on Linux, but was forced instead to use the browser version. 3) I ended up having to install a non-stock kernel to get a lot of things working. 4) I remember running into issues with sleep not working. I don't even remember exactly what I had to do to fix, but, it's another example of something a MacOS user will never have to think about. Anways, I prefer Linux over MacOS so much that I was willing to experience a ton of pain to use it, but I could not honestly recommend it to others at the time. I hope it's gotten better since a few years ago, but I would be very surprised to hear it has. Each new generation of laptops brings new custom chipsets, hardware, etc. with no formal Linux support.

rg111 4y ago
> "Linux on laptops has been a tremendous pain in my experience. " Using Linux ~99.9% of times at both work and personal use for the last five years. 0.1% is Windows, because PowerPoint. Using Pop OS (NVIDIA) for the last 2.5 years, and Linux Mint before that. I have near zero issues, and spent contiguous months and years without any Linux Evenings [0]. Had 3-4 Linux Evenings in these 5 years. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34013195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34013195
- einpoklum 4y ago
  > 0.1% is Windows, because PowerPoint. I was about to say: "Why not just use LibreOffice Impress?" - but the truth is that it's still far away from qualifying as a Powerpoint replacement. LO Writer has really gotten its act together over the years, and now handles Word documents very well and is a worthy replacement - Impress not as much. So, I urge you to spend a little time trying to open your PPT presentations in Impress, and if/when you see issues with it - complain about them! As an active LO user (https://events.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-conference-2022/speaker/WHDWTF/ https://events.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-conference...) I feel the user base is not putting enough pressure on developers to put focus on Impress polish. Also, donations help: https://www.libreoffice.org/donate/ https://www.libreoffice.org/donate/ ... then maybe in a couple of years you could ditch PowerPoint and make your 99.9% into 100%.

yamtaddle 4y ago

My reason is that I spent about a decade using Linux as my main OS, only to finally try macOS/OSX (a workplace gave me a Macbook) and, after a couple months of adjustment, realize what a colossal amount of time & attention I'd been wasting with Linux, working around things that didn't function reliably or fussing here and there with things to make them work. I'd been totally blind to it until I saw how the other half lived. Now when I try to go back it's all I can see. Such experiments rarely last a week these days, though in some sense I still know Linux much better than I know MacOS, so it should have an advantage. > No screen edge tiling, spend more time managing application windows > Maximizing an app takes you to a totally new desktop Spectacle or any of several other programs solves these. It's the only major piece of customization I do on any new Mac. First thing I install after Homebrew. I almost never manage windows with the mouse. One might object, "but that's not default!" but then Mac also catches shit for not being customizable, yet here I am, customizing it, so IDK, doesn't seem like a real objection if the proposed alternative is Linux where customization tends to be even more fiddly than that. FWIW Spectacle's not given me one single problem or glitch in something like eight or nine years of use. Install, grant accessibility permissions to it, use its menu to set it to start at launch, never think about it again until I set up a new Mac. I think there are, separately, also ways to change the behavior of the maximize button (in fact I think I used to use such a customization, before I discovered Spectacle) > Hidden dock doesn't appear unless I smash my cursor on the bottom edge. Dock Autohide is very finicky, ZorinOS' way is much more graceful and natural. As a hidden dock/taskbar lover since Win95 I'm not sure what you mean. I've not noticed a difference between its behavior and every other I've set to hidden, which includes most consumer versions of Windows, a couple server versions of same, plus XFCE, Gnome (1+), and KDE (2+) on Linux. But I've also never heard of ZorinOS so maybe it's doing something unique (and maybe really nice!) > No window closing animations, but has window opening animations. Feels really unpolished I just tried "new window" in a couple programs to see if I could figure out what you mean—maybe there's an animation and I'd just become blind to it. Still don't see it, steps to reproduce? > Single click on dock to maximize the app but clicking maximized app doesn't minimize it. Why? You don't minimize or maximize apps, but windows. Clicking an app in the dock focuses it, un-minimizing (not sure what you mean by "maximizing", here?) its active window if necessary. Doesn't seem inconsistent to me, and is probably a lot less surprising/annoying than if clicking an app that had all its windows minimized didn't restore any of them, or if clicking an app (interpreted by the OS as "foreground this thing", basically) instead minimized its windows (which one? All of them? If some are minimized already, then WTF? Swap them?). I mean, if you click on a pinned app that's not running, it launches the app—would you expect that clicking the dock icon a second time terminate the app? > Ctrl + Alt +T doesn't open terminal, it's like oxygen to me. > Can't set VSCode to open with Ctrl + Alt + C. I don't fiddle with more advanced ways to map shortcuts in macOS (I've done less customization of everything in general, as I get older) but I'm like 99% sure these are easy fixes. Maybe not something exposed in settings, but still, easy to fix. And it's so workflow- or preference-specific that I don't think making it a default would be reasonable. I just launch everything with search on every platform these days, personally, but that's a matter of taste. > The shell startup time is too much on MacOS. I have to wait for a second for the shell to load before I start typing my commands. On Linux, pressing Ctrl+Alt+T and writing commands right away feels so good! Default Terminal app's pretty damn fast. I only find this to be the case if I've got a really heavy zsh config or something like that. > No package manager by default, brew is honestly very slow compared to Linux solutions. Brew's my overall favorite package manager I've ever used, and I've used a ton. Admittedly, though, a lot of that is because I really like having a strict separation between what's necessary for my desktop to basically function, and what my package manager is allowed to monkey with. Tastes vary, I suppose. And it does have a package manager by default, you just don't like it (and neither do I)—it's the App Store. ----- Anyway, the real killer feature of Mac devices is this: When, in a professional setting, your Mac doesn't work, Tim Cook's an asshole. When your Linux workstation doesn't work, you're an asshole. That's not my judgement—it's what I've observed about how the two situations are perceived. If the Mac "doesn't work" less often (very much the case for me, but YMMV) that's just a bonus.

albertop 4y ago

Hardware and MacOS is the only platform with modern chipset.

c7b 4y ago

One more: > brew doesn't support multiple users (really [0]) [0] https://www.codejam.info/2021/11/homebrew-multi-user.html https://www.codejam.info/2021/11/homebrew-multi-user.html

JodieBenitez 4y ago

> After using both, I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux (my favorite: ZorinOS). Why I use it: I just never had any good hardware for a linux laptop and I hate to tinker with configuration. There's always things that work so-so with linux laptops. Macbook gives good hardware, excellent system integration and I like the defaults out of the box. None of the things you listed have importance for me. I would probably use a linux distro on a desktop machine though. Linux is great to revive old macbooks that are no longer supported by Apple though. Linux mint on 10 years macbooks works great.

pdimitar 4y ago

> No HDMI volume control Wait, Linux allows you this?! How?

oneplane 4y ago

Because as soon as you need a stable experience for your workforce and do more than just write code (i.e. be responsible for also being human, integrating with the company, write documents and presentations that others can work on using familiar tools, use video conferencing, and do it the entire day while being mobile/on the move, most hardware isn't going to keep up, and the hardware that is will be hard to get running right with Linux or BSD. While it can be done if you're careful, it's a time/resource sink that really adds no benefit for the larger whole of the engineering effort within a company. On top of that, the minor personal preferences of a workstations should really not be much of an issue in your professional career. It's not like you can tell all your customers, suppliers and colleagues to do things differently just because that's more comfortable for you. Nobody will pay for that. The few people that do run whatever they want, however they want, have a much larger liability and much less support, but they are free to do so. In the event that friction is introduced due to the choices of anyone within the department, it's up to the non-standard one to address it. This gives everyone enough freedom but prevents unrealistic expectations.

jb3689 4y ago

I love using Linux from a platform perspective, but it has been terrible from a usability perspective. Awkward default keybinds, broken software all of the place (e.g. anti-blue tinting), twitchy trackpads that require constant reconfiguring vs. just being excellent out of the box, power savings just works and doesn't require explicit configuration. I find Macs terrible to run software on/write software for/fix by hand, but I think they're great for text editing and navigation which is how I spend the vast majority of my time

MikeLumos 4y ago

I switched to mac after about 10 years on linux, and I'm not going back. I'm also very annoyed by most of the things you have listed, but there are two things that are a deciding factor in favor of mac for me: 1. In addition to webdev I sometimes need to do design, graphics, 3D art, and on linux most of the software just doesn't work. There's absolutely zero chance I'd be willing to cope with GIMP and Inkscape instead of using Photoshop and Affinity designer. There's a lot of other software (for screen recording and video editing, for instance), that works on mac and doesn't on linux. 2. On mac, things just work. On linux there's more customization, and open source software, but you pay for it dearly by having to spend hours (sometimes days) tinkering with configs and installing dependencies every time you're trying to get anything to work. I didn't mind that before, but at this point, I'm too old for this sh*t. I just want my laptop to work and help me do my work and make stuff, I don't want to cross my fingers and pray every time I need to install something I need to get anything done.

sdf4j 4y ago

> Ctrl + C to cancel a command in terminal but Cmd + C to copy text in terminal. Ok, then why Cmd + T to open a new tab in terminal instead of ctrl? As a heavy terminal user this bothers me a lot.. Control+T and Control+C has very special use for the shell. I don't want a terminal "app" taking over those bindings for a misc feature. I don't get why the Meta key is rarely used in Linux desktops.

deleted 4y ago

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sircastor 4y ago

The short version for me is that in every corporate environment where I’ve been using Linux as a daily driver (Ubuntu), I have had Canonical recommended updates catastrophically break my install. That is, I see an update pop up, I install the recommended packages, and the next time I boot I cannot reach the desktop. Or WiFi doesn’t work anymore, or I have to switch to Nvidia drivers instead of the open source ones. And of course the company doesn’t have IT support for Linux, I have yet to work for one that does - there are always plenty of coworkers who are willing to help, but now two people are not getting work done. These machines have been normal Dell Desktops and Laptops. Normal LTS versions of Ubuntu. It has happened enough that I don’t trust Linux as a desktop system for whatever computer I’m using. I can absolutely use it, I’m comfortable on the command line. I want Linux to be reliable for me as a desktop system. It’s the dream of truest owning your computing. But I haven’t had that experience yet. MacOS is certainly not perfect, but I’m very happy with it, and it feels reliable to me.

rvz 4y ago

> After using both, I honestly don't understand why devs use MacOS over Linux (my favorite: ZorinOS). The simple answer is both Apple hardware and software support is well defined and is the gold standard. Linux Desktop software support on the other hand is ill defined and even if the hardware claims to have support, it somewhat worse than macOS or even Windows thanks to the inconsistency of the Linux desktop stack letting it down. This has been an eternal problem with the Linux desktop, and at this point you might as well use Windows with WSL2, since that is the best 'Linux Desktop'.