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These days whenever I hear Indian voice, I just reject call. They way they target grandparents is surreal. One day they told my my friends parents that their ch
by cute_boi 4y ago
These days whenever I hear Indian voice, I just reject call. They way they target grandparents is surreal. One day they told my my friends parents that their children is in accident and they have to pay in gift cards. It is so distressing to elderly people.
US must take strict actions and call out India publicly. Elderly people are weak, education isn't going to solve the scam problem. Scammers must be punished harsly. They erode the trust in system.
Also, Indian government is not doing anything. In many places like Kolkata, scammers can get away easily by bribing police. Our phone are being redirected to India, and they can abuse our phone number. I wish, the US government passes strict rules and regulations to keep these scammers in check.
- jacquesm 4y agoTelco's could put a stop to this if they really wanted to. Start with disabling number spoofing for international calls, if the number presented isn't in the country of origin then reject the connection request. Another choke point is the gift card system.
- code_runner 4y agoEdit: I was thinking of a totally different gift card scam. Whoops Gift cards should require some amount of destruction in order to get to the actual barcode… something to make tampering obvious. The same way clothes have a little ink exploder the clerk removes… just a quick easy step that is destructive to the packaging… but still presentable when you give it to someone
- arcturus17 4y agoWait, how would this stop phone scams?
- valine 4y agoThe scams work by getting the victim to send the codes to the scammer. They don’t care about the physical cards.
- Cerium 4y agoThey already do? Usually I see gift cards packaged in a sealed paper envelope that and the redemption code itself is covered up with tamper evident paint.
- lukevp 4y agoGift cards don’t have a value until you purchase them, the package is meaningless. The barcode is scanned and the value is added when the transaction is completed.
- bbbbb5 4y agoNo they can't. The scammers will just hire a random person from indeed/monster/whatever, ship them a SIM box and tell them to fill it with prepaids.
- josephcsible 4y agoCouldn't this be fixed by restricting international roaming of US SIMs into countries with high rates of call scams?
- mclightning 4y agono, not with that mindset. security is about creating obstacles. obstacles create friction and traces, even when they fail.
- bbbbb5 4y agoUsing SIM boxes is already standard practice, sketchy VOIP providers and SMS spammers have been doing for years because it is cheaper to do this than to pay for legitimate routing. Just put something along the lines of "sim box grey route" into Google and you'll find loads of relevant industry materials. Besides, you're drastically moving the goalposts here. We went from "could put a stop to this" to minor obstacles.
- jacquesm 4y agoYou tackle these things one-obstacle-at-the-time. Telco's are borderline complicit in this today, they don't have to be. Note that in some countries these scams are far more prevalent than in others, they'll go for the low hanging fruit first just like any other business. Make it harder and definitely there will be a response and then you aim to tackle that one. Shipping a SIM box would already be much more work than just changing a number in a database. Require that a phone number is used in the country of origin before you allow it to roam is another step in that process and so on. Rome wasn't built in a day and I'm sure that getting rid of this problem is going to be a series of steps. But as long as telcos willingly cooperate and allow remote call centers to basically pick any number in the locality of the recipient even though that number is not currently roaming in India they are making things much worse.
- briffle 4y agoI thought this was the whole point of STIR/SHAKEN protocol the FCC requires, but maybe there are still some providers that are exempted? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN
- mderazon 4y agoIs it also for SMS ? It's 99% spam and 1% 2FA codes to log in to stupid banks. No way to selectively block SMS on phones (at least natively). Only reason I don't disable it completely is due to the 1 percent
- pnw 4y agoOnly about a quarter of the 10k telcos covered by the FCC have adopted STIR/SHAKEN in the year since the deadline. The FCC has started enforcement actions, in October they announced they are cutting off seven telcos who failed to comply. Only ~7000 more to go!
- pnw 4y agoThe Feds already started on this with STIR/SHAKEN protocol which has been mandated by the FCC for most carriers in recent years. However, just like email spam, stopping spoofed calls is harder in practice than in theory.
- Cheezewheel 4y ago>However, just like email spam, stopping spoofed calls is harder in practice than in theory. Is it really? Couldn't the carriers simply require a certificate to allow you to spoof a phone number?
- wbl 4y agoThe most legacy of systems. They didn't even get rid of human operators until 1970 on Catalina island. https://youtu.be/jitW_yLwihI https://youtu.be/jitW_yLwihI SS7 doesn't have a clean way to do this hence needing to make SHAKEN/STIR, but I don't think anyone did the signalling work for POTS.
- pnw 4y agoYes, that's exactly what STIR/SHAKEN does - in theory. In practice, like most complex systems, mandating a change like this requires software and hardware upgrades and compatibility testing, all of which takes time. The FCC tracks >10k telcos and providers. Last time I checked, only a quarter of the companies had fully implemented STIR/SHAKEN since the deadline and the FCC has recently started enforcement action on telcos that have ignored it. There is some evidence it has reduced spoofed calls, but just like email, the scammers have also moved to adapt their techniques. https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-remove-companies-robocall-database-non-compliance https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-remove-companies-robocall-d...
- negamax 4y agoCan't they implement DKIM, SPF etc. like system? Not aware of technical reality of Telcos but international number spoofing should be easily solvable as billing is done through the origin location
- dalbasal 4y agoYes and uhh. At some point, the way to fight crime is to fight crime. It's not that hard to find and prosecute most call centre scammers. A lot of these scammers would not do it if there was risk. They're not often hardened criminals.
- loopdoend 4y agoIndeed, with the gift card system... how does $10 billion get laundered through gift cards like that?
- lordnacho 4y agoIs it possible to simply pass them around like currency? Eventually the holders will want to buy something from Amazon. Or, you invent a shop that also trades on Amazon and "buy" the stuff from yourself. That might explain some odd shops that you see online.
- wil421 4y agoThere’s a common scam on FaceBook Marketplace for sellers. They contact you and are interested in buying what you have. Once they have your phone number they send a google verification code and ask you to send it back to verify each other. The goal is to setup a US google voice number to abuse later.
- cdolan 4y agoMy wife gets a million hits on stupid items on FBMktPl. This makes so much sense. Thanks!
- smileysteve 4y agoI experienced this, but am tech literate, so did not reveal pin. But I had wrongly assumed that Facebook marketplace would experience less scam than craigslist because verified users would be their competitive advantage
- tshaddox 4y agoIt’s bonkers to me that gift cards are so readily available to enable these scams. There’s no way the gift card providers (Target, etc.) don’t know about this, but they go out of their way to make it as easy as possible and make sure there is zero support available for scams. It’s so infuriating. I know people who have lost hundreds of dollars to people impersonating US Social Security and immigration officers. The gift card providers do not care. The impersonated government agencies do not care. The local police do not care. The phone companies do not care. There is total and utter impunity for everyone perpetrating and enabling these scams.
- ronsor 4y agoEvery store I've been in within the past couple of years has had warnings posted everywhere not to buy gift cards and read the codes to unknown people over the phone. I'm not sure if there's an alternative, since I'd seriously rather not ID be required to buy or use a gift card.
- tshaddox 4y agoConsider that many victims might be new to the language, new to the country, and know very little about the culture except that they absolutely must immediately and carefully comply with all instructions from US immigration regardless of how arcane and bizarre. And as far as making gift cards safer, shouldn’t that be the responsibility of the gift card providers, not to mention regulators tasked with consumer safety? Why is it that the scammers seem to ask for gift cards rather than, say, banking details? (I’m sure there’s also some banking scams, but I have a feeling there’s non-zero recourse for victims in those cases.) If it truly is somehow impossible to make gift cards safe to use, then I’m convinced society could survive without them. But I doubt it’s impossible. I suspect gift providers deliberately go out of their way to make sure victims have no recourse.
- shwoopdiwoop 4y agoGift cards are hugely profitable for companies so I can see why they’d be happy to turn a blind eye.
- joegahona 4y agoI had to instruct my elderly father to do the same -- any kind of accent and he hangs up. He got scammed by one of these people in 2018 or so -- he gave the person his debit card number over the phone to remove malware on his computer while I was out on a super-long run. Luckily he couldn't remember his PIN, and his bank was great at blocking the charge. There's a special place in hell for these animals who prey on old people.
- danenania 4y agoThese days I’d recommend just not answering any unrecognized number. If they’re waiting for a call for some specific reason, they can look at voicemail transcripts to see if it’s the call they were expecting and call back. Otherwise it’s best to ignore any incoming calls. Anything truly important won’t use a phone call as the only contact method.
- TechBro8615 4y agoYou're a lot more patient than me. I've stopped answering calls from unknown numbers. I get 3-4 calls per day, which luckily I can auto-ignore on iOS.
- toomuchtodo 4y agoMake sure your voicemail provides a verbal escalation path for a loved one who needs to reach you from an unknown number (first responder, jail, hospital, etc).
- JTbane 4y agoYeah, no, this works great until you get an actually important call from a previously unknown number (hospital, job interview, etc.)
- mahkeiro 4y agoThey can leave a message or text. I have been doing this for years as this is the only way to be able to use a phone line without getting crazy. If your number is not in my phonebook you go to my voicemail.
- throwaway98797 4y agoonly problem i have is with deliver or restaurant reservations so i unpause the silence during that time the hospital is def an issue, i don’t have a great solution there especially for unplanned emergencies.
- sneak 4y agoAnyone who calls me versus emailing/texting is not getting to me, full stop.
- supertrope 4y agoThat is a cost I will accept. I used to get about 3 robocalls per day, or 1000 robocalls for every legitimate unknown caller. There is a fundamental tradeoff between optimizing for minimizing false positives or false negatives.
- 4y ago
- nigerianbrince 4y agoJust install trucaller on their phone.
- leftcenterright 4y agoYour intention might very well be good but this is very bad advice, please do not install Truecaller! This app is a privacy nightmare. From accessing your phonebook/contact info to location, it has been known to be responsible for leaking information of journalists and for storing user data without consent. > While TrueCaller may have laudable intentions, the privacy implications for people who end up in their database raise concerns. When a number is tagged, the person who is tagged ends up having their name and phone number stored on the TrueCaller database, despite not having consented – or even being aware – that their data was collected. - https://privacyinternational.org/node/2997 https://privacyinternational.org/node/2997 Some of the features require excessive permissions. - https://support.truecaller.com/support/solutions/articles/81000392425-why-is-contact-access-needed-and-is-my-phonebook-shared- https://support.truecaller.com/support/solutions/articles/81... - https://globalvoices.org/2022/10/14/the-true-colours-of-truecaller-in-india-app-accused-of-being-negligent-about-data-privacy/ https://globalvoices.org/2022/10/14/the-true-colours-of-true...
- omginternets 4y agoMy experience with Trucaller is that it does just about nothing. I suspect that by the time a number has been marked as spam, the offender has already switched to a new number. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that scammers were monitoring Trucaller and it’s ilk to determine when to change numbers.
- silisili 4y agoAs bad as it is to say, I mostly do the same. You'd think India would be on top of this and come down hard. If folks just start associating Indian accents as 'scammers', businesses abroad that currently rely on outsourcing support and other services are going to eventually have to pull out. You can't run effective customer support if the customer assumes you're a bad actor just because of your voice and hangs up.
- rhaway84773 4y agoOf course that won’t really help. The vast majority of scams are “romance” scams. These are people who don’t have accents but good job prejudicing your father against a whole group of people while not actually protecting him from scams.
- happyopossum 4y ago> The vast majority of scams are “romance” scams. do you have any sort of citation for that?
- silisili 4y agoIt's right in the article, at the bottom, that romance scams only account for 1/10th of the total money taken in 2022.
- geraldwhen 4y agoI’m not sure businesses care. Everyone I know associates Indian accent with either scam or useless call center rep who can’t actually see the account or help in any way. India is often given the informational customer service, and only Americans can make account changes. Or someone not in India at any rate.
- colejohnson66 4y ago> You'd think India would be on top of this and come down hard. They "try", but the scammers just pay off the cops
- albedoa 4y ago
- frontman1988 4y agohttps://www.sanas.ai/ https://www.sanas.ai/ Be warned. AI accent changers will eliminate that line of defense as well.
- elephanlemon 4y agoI’m worried what will happen when deepfaked voices improve to the point that you can get a realistic impression with only a very small training set. Imagine receiving a phone call in the voice of a family member telling you that they’re in serious trouble.
- banana_giraffe 4y agoI once got a spear phishing call from a scammer claiming to be the CEO of the company I work for. Even though I barely know the CEO, the phrases he was using was obviously wrong. I'd imagine that's even more obvious for any family member. If a family member calls from any number that's not their number, my first question will be an honest "How the heck did you remember my phone number?"
- api 4y agoPretty soon it'll eliminate call centers. One person will be able to use AI to mass-robocall millions of people.
- olivermarks 4y agoWhat a dystopian, terrifying prospect. On a personal level I keep a referee's whistle handy in case I'm talking to a scammer live. They are usually wearing headsets and any damage I can do to their hearing with that may save an old persons savings in the following few minutes. Best technique is to speak softly so they turn their volume up then let rip on the whistle
- tester457 4y agoIt gets more terrifying. Soon whistles will be useless because scammer AI bots with synthesized speech won't be affected.
- rhaway84773 4y agoMaybe they should have sent an FBI liaison earlier. Or maybe they should consider appointing an ambassador to India, 2 years into the new administration.
- sfifs 4y agoThe basic problem is that in highly un-regulated & legalistic economy & polity like the United States, failures such as these are not easily corrected especially where everyone except the weak make money. Everyone who could stop this is making money, the telco operators, amazon, the banks and everyone is weighing the cost of taking any legal or other action and is maximizing their own gain... nobody is really looking to is this socially good. Contrast this with how the Singapore government in a similarly highly capitalist economy dealt with this - basically telling banks - "you'd better make good the consumers & deal with your holes or else" https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/mas-will-consider-supervisory-actions-against-ocbc-phishing-scam-2441021t https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/mas-will-consider-... In many ways in domain after domain, US nowadays seems to act as the "economic proving ground of the world" where lax regulation allows a million ideas to flourish. Then folks in other parts of the world seem to take the best winning ideas, figure out how to make it work in a socially & governmentally acceptable way in other parts of the world and out-compete the US originators (eg. how Uber, Lyft, Amazon, US based social media firms have effectively been pushed out of dominance in Asia)
- Cyberdog 4y agoConsideration needs to be made when thinking that a policy which works in Singapore, one of the smallest countries in the world by area and one with a strong tradition of rather strict governance in the modern era, can be applied to vastly larger ones with some pretense of respect of constitutional civil rights and a history of distrust of strong government.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- wallfacer120 4y ago[dead]
- fortuna86 4y ago> They way they target grandparents is surreal My grandmother got hit with one of these, she has a weak heart and was in severe mental distress all day because she couldn't get ahold of me to confirm what the scammers were telling her. I try not to judge others, but what monster can do this for a living?
- mike_hock 4y ago> education isn't going to solve the scam problem If someone is being told that yadda yadda (story doesn't matter) and they have to pay in gift cards, and they seriously believe that, then surely education seems to be the right fix. Rule no. 1: Gift cards = scam.