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> Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the prov

> Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the province were due to MAiD; in British Columbia, the number was 4.8 percent. That's about in line with the Netherlands, to put things in perspective. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2818%2932554-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

voisin 4y ago
I’d like to see a breakdown for the rationale of people using these programs. The absolute and relative numbers are irrelevant (IMO) if they are largely occurring for the “right reasons” like avoiding increasing pain or similar.
- notatoad 4y ago
  see section 4 (and specifically chart 4.1A) here: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021.html#a4 https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi... 62% cancer patients, 80% coming from palliative care. section 4.5 discusses the new controversial new provision for 2021 which allowed patients to recieve MAiD even if their deaths are not "reasonably forseeable", which accounted for 2.2% of MAiD recipients, or 219 people.
  - voisin 4y ago
    Seems like the law is working exactly as intended then. 219 people, or 2.2% if participants, is an excellent outcome showing the program hasn’t been taken over by greedy children pushing their elderly loved ones toward an early demise.
    - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      I would love to know if, of the 219 people, how many of them are victims of systemic neglect (e.g. chronic condition patient whose meds aren't covered by insurance, suicidal patient who cannot get inpatient therapy, addiction patient who has been denied methodone or other drug-assisted sobriety). Even if it's only 219 people, I think if even half were victims of systemic neglect, I would want very far-sweeping policy changes to prevent these deaths.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
  While you have a point, I really do think the absolute numbers matter too. When 1 in 20 people die from MAiD, it’s no longer a rare edge case regardless of how good their reasons might be; the provision of lethal injections is now a routine component of the Canadian healthcare system. I don’t think that any routine procedure can be subject to the level of weightiness and caution required to end someone’s life.
  - voisin 4y ago
    Wouldn’t you expect that the use of this option would increase dramatically in a massively aging population like most western countries, particularly where people across the whole spectrum of ages are unhealthier than in past generations? I suppose this doesn’t negate your comment but it does offer that there needs to be some adjustment for population aging and health overall, to give proper context.
    - SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
      It’s not about what you’d expect but about what the consequences of normalizing it are. If you’d never heard of MAiD before, you’d react with shock and horror to the mere suggestion that your family members should get a lethal injection like the USA gives to criminals. I think that reaction is the right one, and the “what’s the big deal?” attitude you see a lot of downthread is terribly wrong.
      - sdiacom 4y ago
        It is very dishonest to frame it as the suggestion that "your family members should get a lethal injection like the USA gives to criminals", as it strongly implies a lack of agency and consent on their part. What's happening here, to put it in the same terms, is that "your family members should be allowed to choose to be administered a lethal injection, like the ones that are given to criminals in the USA, as a medical procedure, if and only if a doctor determines that this is a reasonable way to put an end to their physical or mental suffering". Turns out it's not really that shocking and horrifying unless you choose to be dishonest about it.
clcaev 4y ago
Perhaps the title should be "15% of terminal patients choose assisted suicide". Presuming 35% of people who die, do so in need of palliative care [1] -- it is only a further one in seven who seek assisted suicide? In this light, I'd expect the number of deaths to be higher than 5%. Also, isn't it silly to report cause of death as suicide, when it was cancer or some other condition that would soon take their life regardless? [1] https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpc/2014/529681/ https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpc/2014/529681/

voisin 4y ago

I’d like to see a breakdown for the rationale of people using these programs. The absolute and relative numbers are irrelevant (IMO) if they are largely occurring for the “right reasons” like avoiding increasing pain or similar.

notatoad 4y ago
see section 4 (and specifically chart 4.1A) here: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021.html#a4 https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi... 62% cancer patients, 80% coming from palliative care. section 4.5 discusses the new controversial new provision for 2021 which allowed patients to recieve MAiD even if their deaths are not "reasonably forseeable", which accounted for 2.2% of MAiD recipients, or 219 people.
- voisin 4y ago
  Seems like the law is working exactly as intended then. 219 people, or 2.2% if participants, is an excellent outcome showing the program hasn’t been taken over by greedy children pushing their elderly loved ones toward an early demise.
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    I would love to know if, of the 219 people, how many of them are victims of systemic neglect (e.g. chronic condition patient whose meds aren't covered by insurance, suicidal patient who cannot get inpatient therapy, addiction patient who has been denied methodone or other drug-assisted sobriety). Even if it's only 219 people, I think if even half were victims of systemic neglect, I would want very far-sweeping policy changes to prevent these deaths.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
While you have a point, I really do think the absolute numbers matter too. When 1 in 20 people die from MAiD, it’s no longer a rare edge case regardless of how good their reasons might be; the provision of lethal injections is now a routine component of the Canadian healthcare system. I don’t think that any routine procedure can be subject to the level of weightiness and caution required to end someone’s life.
- voisin 4y ago
  Wouldn’t you expect that the use of this option would increase dramatically in a massively aging population like most western countries, particularly where people across the whole spectrum of ages are unhealthier than in past generations? I suppose this doesn’t negate your comment but it does offer that there needs to be some adjustment for population aging and health overall, to give proper context.
  - SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
    It’s not about what you’d expect but about what the consequences of normalizing it are. If you’d never heard of MAiD before, you’d react with shock and horror to the mere suggestion that your family members should get a lethal injection like the USA gives to criminals. I think that reaction is the right one, and the “what’s the big deal?” attitude you see a lot of downthread is terribly wrong.
    - sdiacom 4y ago
      It is very dishonest to frame it as the suggestion that "your family members should get a lethal injection like the USA gives to criminals", as it strongly implies a lack of agency and consent on their part. What's happening here, to put it in the same terms, is that "your family members should be allowed to choose to be administered a lethal injection, like the ones that are given to criminals in the USA, as a medical procedure, if and only if a doctor determines that this is a reasonable way to put an end to their physical or mental suffering". Turns out it's not really that shocking and horrifying unless you choose to be dishonest about it.

clcaev 4y ago

Perhaps the title should be "15% of terminal patients choose assisted suicide". Presuming 35% of people who die, do so in need of palliative care [1] -- it is only a further one in seven who seek assisted suicide? In this light, I'd expect the number of deaths to be higher than 5%. Also, isn't it silly to report cause of death as suicide, when it was cancer or some other condition that would soon take their life regardless? [1] https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpc/2014/529681/ https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpc/2014/529681/