5 ms·

One of the problems with RSS is lack of a feedback loop from mere reader to content creator. Said another way, RSS doesn't have a reply function and that makes

One of the problems with RSS is lack of a feedback loop from mere reader to content creator. Said another way, RSS doesn't have a reply function and that makes it harder to iterate around user feedback. Some of which can be very valuable.

vidanay 4y ago
I don't want content creators to shape their content according to feedback and popularity. I want content creators who shape their content according to their interests and desires and experiences.
- JonathanBeuys 4y ago
  Then why did you write this feedback?
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    Because posting in a forum doesn't make you a content creator, and this isn't an RSS feed?
- anthonypasq 4y ago
  I feel like there's been an extremely strong push in our current culture against actual artistic visionairies that's being driven by toxic and infantile "fan communities" that screech endlessly on the internet about anything they don't like. Art apparently isn't about a creative realizing their unique vision, its about doing things mouthbreathers like. People seem to be viscerally offended when someone unapologetically makes something that isn't for them. Bring back gatekeeping.
reaperducer 4y ago
One of the problems with RSS is lack of a feedback loop from mere reader to content creator. That's a feature, not a bug. It's the difference between publish/subscribe and social chat. When people unsubscribe, there's your feedback. Just like with newspapers.
cosmojg 4y ago
Email? Response blogs? This has been a solved problem for a while now.
pbowyer 4y ago
> One of the problems with RSS is lack of a feedback loop from mere reader to content creator. Said another way, RSS doesn't have a reply function and that makes it harder to iterate around user feedback. Some of which can be very valuable. Did any RSS readers build commenting into them - or even the viewing of comments? I remember subscribing to a blog, and then having to visit the site to view the comments or post a comment. And then subscribing to a separate RSS feed to subscribe to the comments for any post that I wanted updates on. For me that was where RSS fell short.
- musictubes 4y ago
  Most RSS readers will only show whatever the author wants to share via RSS. Often times you need to click through to the actual blog to read the rest. That's where you can comment. Unread is the RSS reader I use on iOS and iPadOS. It does scrape the site and give the entire article. I love it but now I wonder if it's a good idea to circumvent the wishes of the blogger. I use Newsblur as the aggregator and tie Unread to it. The Newsblur portal to my RSS feeds works well enough in the browser on computers.
jerf 4y ago
I think the biggest thing holding back the development of the next generation of social networks is this pernicious belief that it is mandatory to put some sort of public comment section on everything, where anybody with a pulse (or the technical wherewithal to fake it adequately enough) can slap anything they want down next to your content. Context matters, and this has a certain inevitable effect even on the original content. It is a tool. It has times and places. It is not mandatory, nor is it always a good thing. It is quite often a really, really bad thing. It can always be adjoined to a piece of content, like we're doing right now. It is not mandatory for the original poster to host it. If you want a social network that works that way, you are spoiled for choice. If you are unhappy with those social networks, consider the possibility that much of your unhappiness may in fact stem from this very idea. If it seems like everywhere you go is kind of a cacophony of regression-to-the-mean discussion, insults, lowest-common-denominator... this is the root cause. It is not a bad thing that "replying" to the creator of an RSS-based blog is exactly as hard as they choose to make it, up to and including making it impossible.
- rinze 4y ago
  I completely agree. I used to have a Wordpress blog with comments enabled, and that brought me a few headaches at some point. Later on, I moved to Pelican, which is a static generator, and below every article there's an info box that indicates that no, there's no commenting system, and lists a couple of ways someone can reach me if they wish to discuss that particular article. So far, it's working.
  - Avamander 4y ago
    Some of the best info and discussions I've stumbled upon were under someone's article in the comments. It's not always just for the benefit of the writer, I mean.
  - pwdisswordfish9 4y ago
    Suppose all those people causing you headaches got together and started a subreddit and wrote all the same comments there. Everyone who reads you either hears about your new posts that way, or they follow otherwise but still jump over to the subreddit to see what's going on. Does this state of affairs make you as unhappy as the comment section? Is it possible that your issue is really with critiques and criticism?
lolinder 4y ago
Why does user feedback need to happen on the same channel as new content notifications? In my mind keeping a distinction is a huge advantage because it puts the creator in charge of how they interact with their audience. They could add a comment section to their WordPress blog. They could cross-post to Reddit. They could have an email dedicated to comments and feedback. They could do none of those things because they really don't care what the audience thinks. Because RSS/Atom doesn't integrate two-way interaction, there are no preconceived notions of how the second direction ought to work.
- gpanders 4y ago
  >They could have an email dedicated to comments and feedback. Some technical blogs I follow use this. They create a public mailing list that they treat as their “public inbox”. Anyone can send an email to it, and all messages are publicly viewable. No signup or account required either since it’s all just email. I’m a fan of this solution personally.
tracker1 4y ago
On a similar note, however, how many sites have explicitly removed comments at this point? I know there was a Gab browser extension that would effectively make all sites have comment sections, and there are other similar attempts, but none seemed to gain any significant traction.
bsnnkv 4y ago
I had a nice conversation last week with someone on HN discussing how I went about making items on my RSS feeds commentable.[1] I think with a little bit of creativity it's still possible to innovate quite a bit with/on top of RSS. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33978500 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33978500
marcosdumay 4y ago
If you want it, just add a link to a feedback page on the bottom of your posts.
charles_f 4y ago
Email address for feedback at the bottom of the post? Easily fixed problem.

vidanay 4y ago

I don't want content creators to shape their content according to feedback and popularity. I want content creators who shape their content according to their interests and desires and experiences.

JonathanBeuys 4y ago
Then why did you write this feedback?
- reaperducer 4y ago
  Because posting in a forum doesn't make you a content creator, and this isn't an RSS feed?
anthonypasq 4y ago
I feel like there's been an extremely strong push in our current culture against actual artistic visionairies that's being driven by toxic and infantile "fan communities" that screech endlessly on the internet about anything they don't like. Art apparently isn't about a creative realizing their unique vision, its about doing things mouthbreathers like. People seem to be viscerally offended when someone unapologetically makes something that isn't for them. Bring back gatekeeping.

reaperducer 4y ago

One of the problems with RSS is lack of a feedback loop from mere reader to content creator. That's a feature, not a bug. It's the difference between publish/subscribe and social chat. When people unsubscribe, there's your feedback. Just like with newspapers.

cosmojg 4y ago

Email? Response blogs? This has been a solved problem for a while now.

pbowyer 4y ago

> One of the problems with RSS is lack of a feedback loop from mere reader to content creator. Said another way, RSS doesn't have a reply function and that makes it harder to iterate around user feedback. Some of which can be very valuable. Did any RSS readers build commenting into them - or even the viewing of comments? I remember subscribing to a blog, and then having to visit the site to view the comments or post a comment. And then subscribing to a separate RSS feed to subscribe to the comments for any post that I wanted updates on. For me that was where RSS fell short.

musictubes 4y ago
Most RSS readers will only show whatever the author wants to share via RSS. Often times you need to click through to the actual blog to read the rest. That's where you can comment. Unread is the RSS reader I use on iOS and iPadOS. It does scrape the site and give the entire article. I love it but now I wonder if it's a good idea to circumvent the wishes of the blogger. I use Newsblur as the aggregator and tie Unread to it. The Newsblur portal to my RSS feeds works well enough in the browser on computers.

jerf 4y ago

I think the biggest thing holding back the development of the next generation of social networks is this pernicious belief that it is mandatory to put some sort of public comment section on everything, where anybody with a pulse (or the technical wherewithal to fake it adequately enough) can slap anything they want down next to your content. Context matters, and this has a certain inevitable effect even on the original content. It is a tool. It has times and places. It is not mandatory, nor is it always a good thing. It is quite often a really, really bad thing. It can always be adjoined to a piece of content, like we're doing right now. It is not mandatory for the original poster to host it. If you want a social network that works that way, you are spoiled for choice. If you are unhappy with those social networks, consider the possibility that much of your unhappiness may in fact stem from this very idea. If it seems like everywhere you go is kind of a cacophony of regression-to-the-mean discussion, insults, lowest-common-denominator... this is the root cause. It is not a bad thing that "replying" to the creator of an RSS-based blog is exactly as hard as they choose to make it, up to and including making it impossible.

rinze 4y ago
I completely agree. I used to have a Wordpress blog with comments enabled, and that brought me a few headaches at some point. Later on, I moved to Pelican, which is a static generator, and below every article there's an info box that indicates that no, there's no commenting system, and lists a couple of ways someone can reach me if they wish to discuss that particular article. So far, it's working.
- Avamander 4y ago
  Some of the best info and discussions I've stumbled upon were under someone's article in the comments. It's not always just for the benefit of the writer, I mean.
- pwdisswordfish9 4y ago
  Suppose all those people causing you headaches got together and started a subreddit and wrote all the same comments there. Everyone who reads you either hears about your new posts that way, or they follow otherwise but still jump over to the subreddit to see what's going on. Does this state of affairs make you as unhappy as the comment section? Is it possible that your issue is really with critiques and criticism?

lolinder 4y ago

Why does user feedback need to happen on the same channel as new content notifications? In my mind keeping a distinction is a huge advantage because it puts the creator in charge of how they interact with their audience. They could add a comment section to their WordPress blog. They could cross-post to Reddit. They could have an email dedicated to comments and feedback. They could do none of those things because they really don't care what the audience thinks. Because RSS/Atom doesn't integrate two-way interaction, there are no preconceived notions of how the second direction ought to work.

gpanders 4y ago
>They could have an email dedicated to comments and feedback. Some technical blogs I follow use this. They create a public mailing list that they treat as their “public inbox”. Anyone can send an email to it, and all messages are publicly viewable. No signup or account required either since it’s all just email. I’m a fan of this solution personally.

tracker1 4y ago

On a similar note, however, how many sites have explicitly removed comments at this point? I know there was a Gab browser extension that would effectively make all sites have comment sections, and there are other similar attempts, but none seemed to gain any significant traction.

bsnnkv 4y ago

I had a nice conversation last week with someone on HN discussing how I went about making items on my RSS feeds commentable.[1] I think with a little bit of creativity it's still possible to innovate quite a bit with/on top of RSS. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33978500 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33978500

marcosdumay 4y ago

If you want it, just add a link to a feedback page on the bottom of your posts.

charles_f 4y ago

Email address for feedback at the bottom of the post? Easily fixed problem.