19 ms·
State of the Sanderson 2022
- asicsp 4y ago>I found two companies only—in all of the deals I investigated—who are willing to take on Audible. Spotify and Speechify. I wonder if they looked into general digital products companies like Gumroad as well. >So I’m not putting these books on Audible. Not for a year at least. Maybe longer. I hope there will be other authors who can make such statements in the coming months. >The Lost Metal preorders were 75% audio—almost all through Audible. I wouldn't have expected audio to be such a high percentage. I would've guessed about 20-30%. --- Stormlight Archive 5 title revealed. Okayish, but cool to see they are committed to ketek.
- lefstathiou 4y agoMichael Kramer, who reads many of his books on audible, is incredible. I enjoyed listening to several more than reading them because of him.
- the_lonely_road 4y agoHim and Kate Reading did an excellent job with the Wheel of Time. He does so many different voices and really amplifies the emotion of a scene. Puts to bed any questions of basic voice to text replacing audiobooks in the near future.
- LAC-Tech 4y agoCurrently re-listening to WoT audiobooks (part way through The Great Hunt). He is the best voice actor I've ever heard. He manages to give a distinct voice to the ridiculous number of characters, female, male, young, old, human, non-human. It really is quite insane.
- christophilus 4y agoScribd should be on that list, I’d think.
- swsieber 4y agoDoes gumroad actually have good audio book management? Is it intending to take on position itself as an audible competitor? I'm not very familiar with Gumroad but it strikes me as a glorified shop and not a good media manager.
- asicsp 4y agoI have only used Gumroad for ebooks. I'd guess they would at least have some way to play the audio and may be even remember last location for users returning. That said, I was suggesting Gumroad mainly for providing the files and let users use their own preferred apps. Sanderson's team has mentioned that currently they do not have bandwidth to host audio on their own site.
- fernandotakai 4y ago>I wouldn't have expected audio to be such a high percentage. I would've guessed about 20-30%. i follow a couple of authors that basically write their books with audiobooks in mind, because most of their orders come from audible. i, myself, switched exclusively to audiobooks[0], and i couldn't be happier. [0] https://imgur.com/a/DJgSfdX https://imgur.com/a/DJgSfdX
- the_lonely_road 4y agoI havnt purchased a book in 5 or more years now. I still buy dozens a year but they are audiobooks from audible now. I treat it the same way I do Steam for my video games. It is my one stop digital library of goods and if it doesn’t exist there it doesn’t exist and I move on to other options that are.
- plandis 4y agoWayne’s character is done really well by the audiobook narrator, Michael Kramer.
- burkaman 4y agoLibro.fm is another good one, I use it exclusively instead of Audible and they give some (undisclosed and probably very small) portion of profits to your local bookstore. Sanderson's books are available there.
- asicsp 4y agoAs per Peter Ahlstrom (https://old.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/zspzde/state_of_the_sanderson_2022_is_out/j1a2svq/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/zspzde/state_of_th...) VP of Editorial Department: >Libro.fm gives a low percentage of retail price for books bought on the credit system. Our retail price is $14.99, same as a credit. Libro.fm won’t let us say the books can only be bought at retail price and not with a credit.
- burkaman 4y agoInteresting. There are some books that are retail-only on Libro.fm (https://libro.fm/audiobooks/9781483080703 https://libro.fm/audiobooks/9781483080703), but I guess they don't think Sanderson is big enough to let him do that. Everyone seems to be acting reasonably here, I think it's fine that Sanderson doesn't think this deal is worth it, but as a user it's obviously nice to be able to use credits and it seems like most publishers are ok with the tradeoff, as I don't think I've ever been unable get an audiobook through Libro (unless it doesn't exist anywhere).
- plorg 4y agoSpeculation, but I read Spotify here as Findaway, who were the largest non-Audible audiobook platform (underlying services like Scribd and other stores) before getting bought by Spotify earlier this year. He had to have been talking to them before the acquisition. It is disappointing that the only option outside Audible was (swallowed by) another monopolist, rent-seeking behemoth.
- jmull 4y agoWow… Sanderson is trying to back down Audible and their monopoly on audio books. Looks like I’ll be getting his books from Speechify from now on.
- meristohm 4y agoReacting to "Audible monopoly", and while it may technically be so, it needn't- Most of what I read and listen to is provided by my tax-supported public library. If I find something I think will make a welcome gift, I buy it from bookshop dot org or a local bookstore (Minneapolis is rich with them). If I had the discretionary income I'd give more money to the Library foundation, continue lobbying for strengthening the public library system, and continue checking out books; it's a model that lowers the barrier to accessing art, information, and wisdom.
- aniforprez 4y agoDo Audible published audiobooks end up in public libraries? I'm assuming the exclusivity implies never leaving their platform but I'm not knowledgable enough about this space
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y agoLibraries have to pay a premiums for them, so it depends on the budget of your library. (Some may only buy if someone puts in a request for purchase & some may not have the budget to buy at all.)
- birken 4y agoI've listened to 10+ Sanderson books and all of them have have been through my local library (via Libby app). The only downside is that some have decently long wait times so you have to plan in advance.
- counttheforks 4y agoHow can there be a wait time for an audiobook, a digital file that can be reproduced infinitely?
- ncann 4y agoAnyone knows why Audible's pay is that low? Is it because of the cost to them to produce the audio?
- EEBio 4y agoMost likely because they are de-facto monopoly, so they will take as much as they can.
- asicsp 4y ago>Is it because of the cost to them to produce the audio? The rates being talked about in the article is just for distribution, doesn't include creating the audiobook. Audible is a publisher as well, but those probably have different deals.
- christophilus 4y agoThey have to cover those S3 egress fees somehow, amirite? In all honesty, Audible is a practical monopoly, so it can get away with monopolistic behavior.
- ben_w 4y agoBased on what cstross and others say about book sales in general, I suspect that even at such low rates Audible loses money on the median book, and only bother with most of the audiobooks so they can advertise how many audiobooks they have.
- swsieber 4y agoYou explain a little? I'm having trouble understanding why hosting an audio book is going to lose audible money. Do they also produce said books?
- ben_w 4y agoThey produce some at least, but even when they're just a shopfront they almost certainly pay another fraction of the sales to whoever did make it. Big thing though is how few copies the median book actually sells. From what I can tell, the actual sales for a median book across all media are only the low thousands. Audible's mean (not median) gross revenue per book is ($200e6/y)/(200k titles) = $1k/title/year. I tried looking up Audible's financial info, but the only financial report I saw was from 2007, which said their revenue and expenses for years ending 2006 and 2007 were about equal to each other, and at about half what people say are their current revenue levels: https://last10k.com/sec-filings/1077926 https://last10k.com/sec-filings/1077926
- montenegrohugo 4y agoThis is the stuff I love. Sanderson doesn't _have_ to take a stand against Audible , and yet he does. Of course he is in a position of privilege to be able to do it, but so many other people are too and act very differently. Audible giving creators only a 25% cut (or 40% if they sign an exclusive deal) is absolutely exploitative. For a DIGITAL product! That's insane. Props to Sanderson, and props to all the other people with integrity.
- O__________O 4y agoWorth noting that Audible has been a subsidiary of Amazon since 2008, so it’s basically just Amazon exploiting creators: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audible_(service) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audible_(service)
- wcarss 4y ago> I’ve made enough on this Kickstarter. I don’t need to squeeze people for every penny—but what I do want to do is find a way to provide options for authors. This is a kind of sentiment I wish was not exceptional. People often talk about how one day they may have enough, and _then_ they'll help others -- but it's rare to see someone (especially with less than a billion dollars) say out loud that they did it, and in the same breath they start helping. (At a certain time, Kaladin wouldn't believe this kind of guy exists!)
- beezlebroxxxxxx 4y agoI think it's important to realize just how rare a position Brandon Sanderson is in, really. Publishing and the literary scene outside of the major publishers has always been people using the little money they make to try and keep it alive outside of the dominant system that's creeping towards a monopoly in NA. Most stuff just doesn't have the huge marketing capability that Sanderson does and usually fails. Frankly, most authors are barely able to make a living doing it. Sanderson is far from the only person trying to help authors in publishing, but his 0.1% level financial success in publishing likely means he can accept much more risk than even more well known authors. That said, I do find it kind of ironic that he made a secret deal with Spotify, which has its own pitiful history of payouts to artists. But atleast free accounts get access to the books as well.
- gilbetron 4y agoWait, his kickstarter averaged over $200 per backer?? That's crazy. A $41 million kickstarter - my head is exploding.
- bitexploder 4y agoI bought a $200 version of Way of Kings [1]. It is actually two books. It is nicest book I own, and I have some pretty nice books. I only did $60 for the kickstarter campaign. That gets you all the books and audio books. Brandon does stuff for his fans. Sure he is probably quite wealthy at this point, but he is just writing books for /us/ still. He actually finishes stories and is a good guy. I freely support him with $. I know many fans feel the same way. He writes books for everyone and has some really fun stories. Reading his blog post about Audible just affirms my long support for him. [1] https://www.dragonsteelbooks.com/products/the-way-of-kings-leatherbound-book https://www.dragonsteelbooks.com/products/the-way-of-kings-l...
- wiredfool 4y agoAnd just recently, commenters here were saying that no one reads complicated books any more. (My kids read Sanderson. In volume. One of them is responsible for an average chunk of that kickstarter)
- providedotemacs 4y agoSanderson's fans are very loyal, and he has proven that he will deliver.
- VHRanger 4y agoRight, he's the polar opposite of Rothfuss
- 0cf8612b2e1e 4y agoOuch. Right in the feels. Evidently Name of the Wind came out in 2007.
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
- taude 4y agoI find it pretty amazing their company has 60 employees. Also worth the read to learn about Audible pricing. I didn't know. I'm pretty addicted to audio books, but now will have to seek out other alternatives when I can.
- plandis 4y ago60 employees didn’t seem that wild when you consider they took on the role of publisher for his secret projects kickstarter. 186k backers of which a decent portion are getting 4 physical books over the next year.
- LegitShady 4y agoshipping 600k books to individual backers is a massive undertaking without writing, editing, publishing, and other merchandise.
- Jemaclus 4y agoAFAIK, most of them are actually warehouse employees at entry-level wages that ship his books/swag from his online store and other endeavors, and also handle the kickstarter fulfillment process, versus white-collar jobs like editors and artists and so on. It's still impressive to have 60 employees, though, especially as an author (Robert Jordan only had four, to my knowledge).
- taude 4y agoYeup, I wasn't implying white-collar jobs, or anything. Just the volume of people required to pull something like this off.
- taude 4y agoI did lead me down a James-Patterson worm-hole though, on how there's so many James Patterson books out there (mostly that he DOES NOT write at this point).
- Kiro 4y ago[flagged]
- CrazyStat 4y agoScam or not is determined by whether or not you deliver what was promised, not by how much you raise. I'm not sure why you bring it up at all. A project that raises $100 can be a scam if it doesn't deliver. A project that raises $42 million can not be a scam, if it does deliver. If Sanderson provides products that many people value at a collective $42 million+, why should I not be fine with those people giving him that much money? It's their money, they can spend it how they like.
- Kiro 4y agoThe point is that he doesn't need the money. He's one of the most successful authors in the world and the delivery is just writing four books. I just don't understand why he made a Kickstarter to begin with. The previous record holder (Pebble) made sense because of R&D and hardware. The scam part is everyone always putting new Kickstarters under extreme scrutiny regarding the money they're trying to raise and if they really need it. Meanwhile this project has no upfront costs, nothing, that defends asking people to pledge money to it.
- fabian2k 4y agoAs far as I understand the books are essentially self-published in this case, so there is certainly some investment needed to make all of this happen.
- Kiro 4y agoKickstarter should be for financing things you can't get out on the market without the investment. You're basically saying "I need X money for Y to happen" and instead of a regular investor you rely on the hopes of future customers. Like a pre-order but without the obligation to deliver because of the moonshot. In Sanderson's case it's just a pre-order where you milk your fans for some extra bucks. He doesn't need this money to make these four books happen.
- mcv 4y agoSanderson sounds like an awesome guy. And I've heard great things about his books too. I should probably read some.
- _whiteCaps_ 4y agoThe Mistborn series is a great one to start with. His magic systems are really well done.
- coltonweaver 4y agoMistborn is definitely a great intro to the cosmere books. I'd almost definitely start there, see if you like it, and then get into the rest because it can be pretty overwhelming with how much there is.
- freedomben 4y agoMistborn (Era 1) is the best book(s) I think I have ever read. Truly remarkable.
- Jemaclus 4y agoRead more! ;) All seriousness aside, Mistborn (Era 1) is fantastic, especially as an introduction into Sanderson's world. Part of the reason it's great is because he was able to write all three books at once -- book 1 went to print as book 2 was in editing stages and as he was wrapping up the first draft of book 3. That means he was able to keep it tight and put proper foreshadowing and have everything kind of work out really well. You can see in his other books that it hasn't worked out quite as well. They're all good books, but Mistborn stands out to me as fantastic because of that. But back to my serious joke, read more! Sanderson's a great author, but he's far from the only good one, and there are some truly brilliant folks out there that just aren't as good at marketing themselves as Sanderson is, and they deserve recognition and more for their good work too!
- 4y ago
- yreg 4y agoAs a customer I'd like to see a Netflix/Spotify-like audiobook service, where I pay a subscription and can listen whatever they have in catalogue, whenever. Sadly, it wouldn't probably be great for small authors either, just the same as Spotify isn't great for unknown musicians. OTOH, like Netflix, they could fund authors to write books or at least produce the audiobooks for them. Of course the service would want exclusivity, but perhaps it might work out.
- CobaltFire 4y agoIf you are in the US try your public library. Pretty much every one has one of two eLibrary applications with audiobooks included. They may not have everything, but there’s been plenty for me. It has drastically cut my use of audible to the point that I’ve been canceled for two years.
- irowe 4y agoApparently publishers have seriously been turning the screws on libraries wrt to license fees for ebooks and audiobooks, so the current golden age of getting them from the library may be ending. [0]: https://www.npr.org/2022/11/09/1135639385/libraries-publishers-ebooks-e-books-macmillan-protest-amazon-bezos https://www.npr.org/2022/11/09/1135639385/libraries-publishe...
- CobaltFire 4y agoOf course they would do that. It's one of the last places where you don't have to pay to exist, and where you can be educated and entertained without paying those companies.
- TheAceOfHearts 4y agoIt's not quite what you're asking for, but Audible records a lot of Audible Originals which are all freely accessible to members without having to use any credits. Unfortunately most Audible Originals aren't very good. I think Audible also offers an unlimited subscription for romance novels, although it's been a few years since I checked.
- fragen 4y agoI’m waiting for You-Know-Who’s novel to come out so Paul Graham can flip the remote activate switch (I still don’t know what that feels like) and I can spam Twitter with hate for a book I’ve never read. Admit it, you’re curious too if we can beat that guy.
- InTheArena 4y agoIt’s interesting to see a few dynamics here. 1) Sanderson already delivered a huge shot across the bow with the secret novel kickstarter. TOR had to have been livid with the kickstarter - it’s 41 million of revenue from their top line, but more importantly It kick started a whole ton of other authors. The kickstarters started because a loophole in their contract, and Brandon has very successfully exploited it as much as his characters exploit magic systems. 2) Dragonsteel is basically growing to the point that it is a publishing house. Others should keep this in mind - Brandon knows how to scale a business. I think of other creative battles - think comic Bill Waterson who won creative rights to Calvin and Hobbes, only to stop publishing a few years later because of how difficult the format changes he insisted on were. This path is not sustainable for a ton of people. 3) TOR has also got to be livid in that they basically handed the keys to the kingdom w/ Brandon by asking him to finish WoT (technically Harriet, Jordan’s wife did) 4) Now he is trying to do the same thing to Audible. Having met Sanderson before he started on WoT - Ut’s incredible how far he’s gone… but somehow he keeps going.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y agoI hope Sanderson can become something akin to a Rick Riordan, where “Rick Riordan presents” has become a huge household name launching new careers in childrens lit.
- swsieber 4y agoExcept it's not 41 million from their top line. I expect a lot of that is in ebook, audio book and swag items.
- defen 4y ago> The kickstarters started because a loophole in their contract, and Brandon has very successfully exploited it as much as his characters exploit magic systems Can you go into more detail on that? I know what you mean about exploiting magic systems, but I don't know anything about Sanderson's contract with Tor or what he did.
- legobmw99 4y ago
- torben-friis 4y agoI already commented it on reddit, but I was very surprised by the fact (mentioned in passing) that 75% of pre-buyers for Sanderson's last book were audiobooks. For each person reading the book there are 3 people hearing it. Those are wild numbers for me.
- pugio 4y agoIt's worth noting that the narrator - Michael Kramer - is exceptional. One of the characters in this particular series is known for his ability with accents, so listening to the audiobook with a good narrator is an extra amount of fun. I've read most of Sanderson's books in print, but for this one I also bought the audiobook specifically for that kind of narration.
- kneebonian 4y agoThe other narrator commonly used Kate Reading is also exceptional and is Michaels wife.
- nindalf 4y agoNot surprised Kate Reading narrates audiobooks.
- therealdrag0 4y agoI know I’m in the minority but I stopped reading Sanderson because I dislike Kramer so much. His inflection makes everything sound so corny.
- hejaodbsidndbd 4y agoGraphicAudio provides an alternative audio production for most of them.
- torben-friis 4y agoDumb question: is “reading” also used as a verb for audiobooks? (English is my second language).
- knighthack 4y agoI've always noticed that Audible has been a bit of a scam (despite that I use it, because there are few other usable market alternatives). I love Graphic Audio but there's too little choice in comparsion. So I'm glad that Sanderson's going to take on Audible - especially to help out the little guys, since he's now a force on his own as an author to be reckoned with. That said, I still remember when Sanderson was a small author. I was beaming about a book he had written on Reddit; yet he personally wrote back to me, when he could have just been quiet. That spoke volumes. All this while Sanderson's personality remains just as humble, despite how big he's become. So I wish for Brandon all the best, and hope that his noble campaign to take on Audible and bring down the Goliath succeeds, for the betterment of all authors.
- Volundr 4y agoI had to look up GraphicAudio, but FWIW Downpour.com seems to have a pretty good collection of books published by them (including Sanderson titles). I've been using them for years because (almost) all of their stuff is DRM free.
- Uvix 4y agoDownpour is my vendor of choice for most books, but GraphicAudio also sells the titles DRM-free directly, with the option of lossless format. (And in Sanderson's case it doesn't look like Downpour has all of their titles.)
- 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago>I've always noticed that Audible has been a bit of a scam You and I have had very different experiences. Someone has been dying to juice the subscriber stats and every year or two, Audible throws me a sweetheart deal too good to refuse. This year, they offered me three free months to rejoin. Took my three books and canceled, not paying anything. A month or two later, they offered me a $20 credit + three months at a reduced rate of $5(? Maybe it was $10). Fully intend to cancel subscription when that completes end of January. Netting me ~7 books for maybe a one month of out of pocket subscription.
- taeric 4y agoI'm curious how comparable some of that data is. Specifically, Audible may pay half what a bookstore does per sale, but are they also charging less than half of what the same bookstore charges. Such that you really need to compare revenue generated for the artists, not just margin per sale. That said, I am in favor of trying market forces to see what sort of change one can make. I... question anything out of the publishing world, though. If Audible is a good company doing bad things, most publishing houses are likely to be at best described in the same way. And, spotify is a hilariously cursed example to use as a "for the artists" system.
- plorg 4y agoI am glad Sanderson can make this deal with Spotify. I wonder if this same structure will be extended to the many other services that license audiobooks from (what used to be) Findaway (until they bought it). While it's good to have an opposing weight to Audible, it will amount to very little if this is all just a play that accrues power to a second oligopolist in the industry.
- ReactiveJelly 4y agoFirst I've heard of the "m4b" file format. Looks like a variation of m4a with stanardized metadata for (B)ooks, hence the b. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP4_file_format#Filename_extensions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP4_file_format#Filename_exten...
- LesZedCB 4y agopro-tip, you can convert your audible aax files to m4b with ffmpeg! you need to determine your key which is like a 6 character key, and fairly easy to figure out how to find.
- DavidPiper 4y agoFun fact, it's exactly the same as the m4a format, but with a different file extension. (Which macOS uses to add some UI sugar on top; but the data is the same.)
- Gatsky 4y agoSo… are the books any good? Or is that irrelevant now?
- CatWChainsaw 4y agoAssuming your question isn't snark, you could try reading The Emperor's Soul. It's a short novella, so you can finish it in a 2-3 hour reading session. And it will give you a taste of his writing style as well as a metaphysical primer to his Cosmere universe.
- Gatsky 4y agoMy question was genuine. Thank you for the suggestion.
- shostack 4y agoHe's regarded as one of the top fantasy authors out there, particularly if you get out over very deep and well thought through magic systems.
- mdiesel 4y agoI'm very confused by Spotify's audio books though. Can't buy or even see the price through the app, which can't be good for getting people started on it. I then went on the website version, and the Sanderson novels I can find are £29.90 (as are most of the others I looked at). I don't listen to audio books, is the market price really 4-5x the hardback?
- SNosTrAnDbLe 4y agoSanderson’s the way of kings introduced me to audiobooks and I have never looked back. These days I just buy the audible narration without the membership
- frosted-flakes 4y agoDoesn't that cost nearly twice as much? I just start a membership, spend the credit, then immediately cancel the membership. Although for some shorter books that were only $10 each I forwent that process and bought them directly.
- function_seven 4y agoNot when it’s purchased as an add-on to a Kindle version. For most books I end up paying $10 for the text and $8 for the narration add-on. So much better when starting a new book to be able to read all the new and unfamiliar names and places.