12 ms·

Its not a shortage of workers, it's a shortage of underpayable workers.

Natsu 4y ago
> Hotels have raised hourly wages by 25% since early 2020, and employers are offering greater flexibility in scheduling. Still, workers are nowhere to be seen. I dunno, my pay sure hasn't gone up by 25% in the past 2 years.
- notwokeno 4y ago
  Mine has gone up at a rate pretty close to that over three years. You might consider switching companies.
- ninth_ant 4y ago
  The rate it’s gone up is a red herring. If people don’t want to take the job at the posted rate then they are underpaying. Instead of comparing if your pay has gone up 25%, ask if you’d rather take one of those jobs than yours. Because apparently that’s an option if you want. There are almost certainly miserable working conditions, bad hours, and still an overall low wage. If people are able to find better jobs, then hotels need to treat people better or pay more to offset that. Are we seriously going to cry about megacorps not getting away with paying workers trash wages for miserable jobs? Boo hoo, pay more.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - kortilla 4y ago
    Megacorps is a red herring and emotional appeal. The same applies just as much to small businesses in the same industries.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      Nope. "Megacorps" have economies of scale that small businesses don't have.
      - kortilla 4y ago
        What? The topic is about the cost of labor. It’s impacting small businesses just as much.
  - Natsu 4y ago
    > If people don’t want to take the job at the posted rate then they are underpaying. Well, that's why they're going to robots I guess. > Instead of comparing if your pay has gone up 25%, ask if you’d rather take one of those jobs than yours. Because apparently that’s an option if you want. I worked a much worse factory job for years. I don't blame people for not wanting such a thing, but sometimes it isn't all about pay, either. You couldn't pay me to go back to my old job.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      They're going to "robots" called "not cleaning for 4 days."
      - Natsu 4y ago
        It's a bit of both, though it looked like the robots were roombas or something. And I think the cleaning would only matter on longer stays, since I believe they'd still have to turn over the room between guests.
  - sonotathrowaway 4y ago
    It’s amazing how well conditioned people are to blame others for not being exploited. Corporations having trouble finding workers to exploit is now a moral failure of the worker for not enriching rich assholes enough.
- supertrope 4y ago
  Would you work for $16/hr with no health insurance? Hotels are notorious for not only not offering steady 40 hour employment but sending staff home if room count is low or calling people in with minimal notice.
  - factsarelolz 4y ago
    This job seems great for moms that want to work part time while their kids are in school. 11 am - 3pm.
    - enumjorge 4y ago
      If we ignore the low pay, physically demanding work, bad benefits and and unpredictable work schedule, then yeah I guess these jobs sound great for moms.
      - factsarelolz 4y ago
        Physically demanding? What's the difference between cleaning a hotel room and cleaning your house or bedroom? There's absolutely zero heavy lifting. You change the sheets, vaccuum and wipe down everything. I would option to say taking care of kids is more physically demanding than cleaning. If it's just supplementary income it wouldn't really matter about benefits as the spouse would already have benefits.
        Mezzie 4y ago
        Zero breaks, for one. And no ability to take sick days/stop doing it if you're injured. Doing work for 1-2 hours a day or a few hours a week is very different from doing it for 20-40 hours a week. (Much like there's a difference between taking on a project or two for a small team that requires some programming and being a full time dev). Oh, and you can't sit. That's like saying anybody who mows their lawn would have no difficulty in a landscaping position. And the kid thing it strongly depends on the age and type of kid. Kids at the most physically exhausting ages also tend to take naps which gives the parent a respite. You can also trade off with the other parent/other relatives if you're tired. Can't do that with work: Your coworkers aren't going to do your job if you have an off day. The physically demanding part is in the demand for physical consistency.
- Qwertious 4y ago
  What was it up from? If for example they offered the US federal minimum wage in 2020, and the shift hours were unreliable and inflexible, then I could imagine even an extra 25% wouldn't make it worthwhile. The article says up from $10. I don't know whether that's a decent wage in the US, but it sounds low and $16 is just barely above the proposed compromise new US minimum wage figure, so it sounds not-hellish but not "do it just for the money" level. Also, I noticed they said "25%" but $10 to $16 is 60%, and if you're griping and can say "we raised by 60% and nobody bit!", then you say that instead of "we raised by over 25% and nobody bit!". So I'm skeptical of the figures - maybe that 60% is best-case or something, and most people are offered $12.50 or something.
notwokeno 4y ago
I'm actually not even sure that's it. What do you get with the tokens you're paid in? The ability to participate in society. There's no longer a society to participate in though as all the social institutions have been deconstructed. Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. It's not like people are going to starve to death if they don't work (and is that something you even want?) so it's not happening. Note that this isn't the first time in history this has happened.
- alphabettsy 4y ago
  > Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. Curious about where you live and where you grew up? I ask because none of these rings true for me. Many of my friends have bought homes and started families, along the way, they’ve created their own traditions, and are part of communities where they know their neighbors. And this isn’t in just in one place in the country.
  - notwokeno 4y ago
    Obviously there are plenty of individuals where this isn't the case (and there are plenty of people working hard) but the discussion is about the movement of the group and this does appear to be where things are going on both sides.
    - fzeroracer 4y ago
      Where exactly is this movement you're seeing? I'm seeing a lot of speculation with no actual facts or data to back it up.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - francisofascii 4y ago
        Not OP, but I think the term "movement" was meant to mean the percentage of people who are starting families, keeping their religion, owning homes, etc. is moving downward. Pew Research has plenty of evidence for this movement downward.
WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
This is likely true. I just read a report that said that the shortage highly correlates with the reduction of immigrants due to COVID and the tightening of immigration into the US. It may not be the only factor, but it is one that contributes to the shortage of service workers. Like it or not, new immigrants are more likely to take jobs that pay less as compared to non-immigrants.
- shagie 4y ago
  Another thing to toss into the mix... the immigrant housekeeper in the US on a visa would be working on a H-2B visa. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-2b-temporary-non-agricultural-workers https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary... These are temporary and are at most 3 years. There is similar "if you don't have a job, you leave." Add in the 2016 through 2020 was less favorable to immigration. While past years, we haven't hit the visa cap for H-2B (like we do for H-1B), in 2022, applicants hit the cap ( https://www.dhs.gov/news/2022/10/12/dhs-supplement-h-2b-cap-nearly-65000-additional-visas-fiscal-year-2023 https://www.dhs.gov/news/2022/10/12/dhs-supplement-h-2b-cap-... https://www.marketplace.org/2022/12/14/the-u-s-is-nearly-doubling-the-number-of-seasonal-worker-h-2b-visas-it-offers/ https://www.marketplace.org/2022/12/14/the-u-s-is-nearly-dou... https://www.npr.org/2022/11/04/1134417921/could-foreign-workers-unlock-americas-tight-labor-market https://www.npr.org/2022/11/04/1134417921/could-foreign-work... ) This means that in the past it was possible to reliably get people to work on the H-2B visa, and now you can't. Additionally, those "out of work" meant that people had to leave and start over reducing the pool of H-2B visa workers.
- colpabar 4y ago
  Another way of saying this is that immigration inhibits wage growth.
  - shagie 4y ago
    I would suggest a read of The Effect of Low-Skill Immigration Restrictions on US Firms and Workers: Evidence from a Randomized Lottery - https://www.nber.org/papers/w30589 https://www.nber.org/papers/w30589 and reconsider that position.
dukeofdoom 4y ago
The solution to this in Canada seems to be to allow a lot of immigrants from poorer countries, willing to live two to a bedroom. Fast food places, Walmart, and other places are now fully staffed thanks to that policy. I know for a fact that it's the case, because in my town it's a very large demographic change from recognizable ethnicity where 5 years ago there was almost none. Unfortunately Canada is a a very expensive place to live, and living 2 to a bedroom is how they can make the pay work.
- VancouverMan 4y ago
  I have noticed this, too, in numerous different cities and towns throughout Canada, over the same time period that you mention. This approach hasn't been good for anyone involved. The employees typically seem quite miserable, as would be expected given their circumstances. Economically, this approach also significantly increases demand for supply-constrained housing, health care, infrastructure, and goods. This in turn exacerbates Canada's current inflation problem, and it's made worse by these imported workers not offering any real (in the economic sense) productivity gains to help offset the increased demand. The combination of these factors, plus cultural differences, seems to have resulted in a steep decline in the customer experience at such establishments over that period of time, too. I now spend a small fraction of what I used to at such businesses because the experience is typically poor, at least relative to what it was in the past. I know others who have changed their spending habits, too, for the same reason.
  - fundad 4y ago
    The payback is over generations. Children of immigrants historically have higher fertility rates and higher participation in the workforce. Someone seems miserable at work but they’re living for their grandkids.
- dumpsterlid 4y ago
  This isn't a solution, its just hurting people who have been so hurt other places that this comparative hurt is less bad. How twisted is it that you see this as a solution? The solution is workers joining together to enact leverage over the wealth horders in society and demanding better wages for everybody. The money is absolutely there in rich countries like the US and Canada.
jltsiren 4y ago
I've started to dislike this perspective, because it feels like an "if the only tool you have is a hammer..." kind of explanation. It's a valid perspective, but it's not the only one, and other perspectives are often more useful. Maybe the issue is just that hotels don't want to pay enough. Maybe there is an actual shortage. Then any single hotel can solve the shortage by paying more, but hotels in general can't. Or maybe hotels have to rethink their business models. It's an inevitable consequence of real wage growth that labor becomes more expensive relative to goods and services. At some point, the old ways are no longer viable. Hotels can't hire as many housekeepers as before, because people are not willing to pay enough for hotel rooms. Hotels must then find ways to provide housekeeping more efficiently with less labor.
- wikfwikf 4y ago
  What real wage growth?
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    Wage growth vs inflation. If your wage goes up 10% but inflation is 11%, you actually have a real wage decrease. Generally speaking anyway.
- hinata08 4y ago
  Yes ! As you mentioned, that's basically competition in both ways, for once : expecting more affordable hotel rooms and wage increase at the same time Macroeconomicaly, that's basically automating casual and repetitive tasks to focus on value, with more skilled and demanding workers. I'm glad that automation is becoming more effective for these jobs ! I mean, robot vacuum cleaners have been a thing for over a decade. Why wouldn't hotels rely on them ? When visiting countries with a lower GDP in other parts of the planet, I was shocked by the madness of this cheap workforce : they cost nothing, so a lot of workers were working in pretty unproductive jobs. Like ppl don't drive, you have a taxi or tricycle driver to carry you around. If you're middle class, you have caretakers all around. And there is no automation at all, it's cheaper to hire unskilled. They were working much harder than were I'm from. But there wasn't any focus on value or production or anything. That's why I politically hate whoever blames jobseekers for any issue, and point these jobs. If you want to rebuild a lower GDP economy, yeah, send everyone to unpaid jobs. If you want to move forward, just automate everything, and let workers have jobs where they add a lot of value. (Disclaimer : I'm an industrial engineer who wanted to do robotics, but ended up doing DevSecOps/ IT only)
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Its not a shortage of workers, it's a shortage of underpayable workers. You can't have a shortage of underpayable workers, since a shortage means that quantity supplied is less than quantity demanded at every possible price point. What it is, is purchasers seeking government intervention in the market to artificially suppress market clearing prices.
altacc 4y ago
From this article and others that I have read, it is also about work/life balance. Pay is getting better in some places and that gives options. Previously those working 14 unsociable hours a day seemed to be either highly paid execs or lowly paid service workers (yes, a generalization). I imagine that the latter have jumped at the chance to move into the comfortable middle that a lot of HN readers occupy. Many economies have relied on significant numbers of people having no choice but to accept bad pay, conditions & hours and it'll take time to adjust but they really should. Everyone should be able to have a good work/life balance and be paid adequately for a full day's work.
noduerme 4y ago
Or an overabundance of educated, nonworking people who don't feel the need to do what they consider menial labor, because they don't need the money; likely because they're either still living with their boomer parents or said parents departed and left them with a bundle.
tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
This, in the article they complain that they already raised pay from $10/hour to $16/hour. In Baltimore, where minimum wage is currently $12.50 according to the DOL. "To keep the employees they do have, the couple tries to accommodate staff needs" yeah, that's what good employers should have been already doing before.
seydor 4y ago
Looking at europe i think it's an actual shortage of workers which leads them to pick (or hold on for) better jobs, and this is the new normal now, and you can't fix it with immigration either
tootie 4y ago
No, it's a shortage of workers. If they paid more they'd be competing with other industries who would then be the ones facing shortages.
artificialLimbs 4y ago
It's not a shortage of underpayable workers. The workers are still there. The problem is that it's illegal to hire them at all because of minimum wage. They've been priced out of the market and low margin employers can't afford them. Many at the bottom are unable to do anything except beg for help from others if they're not employable at wages that employers are willing to pay.

> Hotels have raised hourly wages by 25% since early 2020, and employers are offering greater flexibility in scheduling. Still, workers are nowhere to be seen. I dunno, my pay sure hasn't gone up by 25% in the past 2 years.

notwokeno 4y ago
Mine has gone up at a rate pretty close to that over three years. You might consider switching companies.
ninth_ant 4y ago
The rate it’s gone up is a red herring. If people don’t want to take the job at the posted rate then they are underpaying. Instead of comparing if your pay has gone up 25%, ask if you’d rather take one of those jobs than yours. Because apparently that’s an option if you want. There are almost certainly miserable working conditions, bad hours, and still an overall low wage. If people are able to find better jobs, then hotels need to treat people better or pay more to offset that. Are we seriously going to cry about megacorps not getting away with paying workers trash wages for miserable jobs? Boo hoo, pay more.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kortilla 4y ago
  Megacorps is a red herring and emotional appeal. The same applies just as much to small businesses in the same industries.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Nope. "Megacorps" have economies of scale that small businesses don't have.
    - kortilla 4y ago
      What? The topic is about the cost of labor. It’s impacting small businesses just as much.
- Natsu 4y ago
  > If people don’t want to take the job at the posted rate then they are underpaying. Well, that's why they're going to robots I guess. > Instead of comparing if your pay has gone up 25%, ask if you’d rather take one of those jobs than yours. Because apparently that’s an option if you want. I worked a much worse factory job for years. I don't blame people for not wanting such a thing, but sometimes it isn't all about pay, either. You couldn't pay me to go back to my old job.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    They're going to "robots" called "not cleaning for 4 days."
    - Natsu 4y ago
      It's a bit of both, though it looked like the robots were roombas or something. And I think the cleaning would only matter on longer stays, since I believe they'd still have to turn over the room between guests.
- sonotathrowaway 4y ago
  It’s amazing how well conditioned people are to blame others for not being exploited. Corporations having trouble finding workers to exploit is now a moral failure of the worker for not enriching rich assholes enough.
supertrope 4y ago
Would you work for $16/hr with no health insurance? Hotels are notorious for not only not offering steady 40 hour employment but sending staff home if room count is low or calling people in with minimal notice.
- factsarelolz 4y ago
  This job seems great for moms that want to work part time while their kids are in school. 11 am - 3pm.
  - enumjorge 4y ago
    If we ignore the low pay, physically demanding work, bad benefits and and unpredictable work schedule, then yeah I guess these jobs sound great for moms.
    - factsarelolz 4y ago
      Physically demanding? What's the difference between cleaning a hotel room and cleaning your house or bedroom? There's absolutely zero heavy lifting. You change the sheets, vaccuum and wipe down everything. I would option to say taking care of kids is more physically demanding than cleaning. If it's just supplementary income it wouldn't really matter about benefits as the spouse would already have benefits.
      - Mezzie 4y ago
        Zero breaks, for one. And no ability to take sick days/stop doing it if you're injured. Doing work for 1-2 hours a day or a few hours a week is very different from doing it for 20-40 hours a week. (Much like there's a difference between taking on a project or two for a small team that requires some programming and being a full time dev). Oh, and you can't sit. That's like saying anybody who mows their lawn would have no difficulty in a landscaping position. And the kid thing it strongly depends on the age and type of kid. Kids at the most physically exhausting ages also tend to take naps which gives the parent a respite. You can also trade off with the other parent/other relatives if you're tired. Can't do that with work: Your coworkers aren't going to do your job if you have an off day. The physically demanding part is in the demand for physical consistency.
Qwertious 4y ago
What was it up from? If for example they offered the US federal minimum wage in 2020, and the shift hours were unreliable and inflexible, then I could imagine even an extra 25% wouldn't make it worthwhile. The article says up from $10. I don't know whether that's a decent wage in the US, but it sounds low and $16 is just barely above the proposed compromise new US minimum wage figure, so it sounds not-hellish but not "do it just for the money" level. Also, I noticed they said "25%" but $10 to $16 is 60%, and if you're griping and can say "we raised by 60% and nobody bit!", then you say that instead of "we raised by over 25% and nobody bit!". So I'm skeptical of the figures - maybe that 60% is best-case or something, and most people are offered $12.50 or something.

notwokeno 4y ago

I'm actually not even sure that's it. What do you get with the tokens you're paid in? The ability to participate in society. There's no longer a society to participate in though as all the social institutions have been deconstructed. Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. It's not like people are going to starve to death if they don't work (and is that something you even want?) so it's not happening. Note that this isn't the first time in history this has happened.

alphabettsy 4y ago
> Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. Curious about where you live and where you grew up? I ask because none of these rings true for me. Many of my friends have bought homes and started families, along the way, they’ve created their own traditions, and are part of communities where they know their neighbors. And this isn’t in just in one place in the country.
- notwokeno 4y ago
  Obviously there are plenty of individuals where this isn't the case (and there are plenty of people working hard) but the discussion is about the movement of the group and this does appear to be where things are going on both sides.
  - fzeroracer 4y ago
    Where exactly is this movement you're seeing? I'm seeing a lot of speculation with no actual facts or data to back it up.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - francisofascii 4y ago
      Not OP, but I think the term "movement" was meant to mean the percentage of people who are starting families, keeping their religion, owning homes, etc. is moving downward. Pew Research has plenty of evidence for this movement downward.

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

This is likely true. I just read a report that said that the shortage highly correlates with the reduction of immigrants due to COVID and the tightening of immigration into the US. It may not be the only factor, but it is one that contributes to the shortage of service workers. Like it or not, new immigrants are more likely to take jobs that pay less as compared to non-immigrants.

shagie 4y ago
Another thing to toss into the mix... the immigrant housekeeper in the US on a visa would be working on a H-2B visa. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-2b-temporary-non-agricultural-workers https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary... These are temporary and are at most 3 years. There is similar "if you don't have a job, you leave." Add in the 2016 through 2020 was less favorable to immigration. While past years, we haven't hit the visa cap for H-2B (like we do for H-1B), in 2022, applicants hit the cap ( https://www.dhs.gov/news/2022/10/12/dhs-supplement-h-2b-cap-nearly-65000-additional-visas-fiscal-year-2023 https://www.dhs.gov/news/2022/10/12/dhs-supplement-h-2b-cap-... https://www.marketplace.org/2022/12/14/the-u-s-is-nearly-doubling-the-number-of-seasonal-worker-h-2b-visas-it-offers/ https://www.marketplace.org/2022/12/14/the-u-s-is-nearly-dou... https://www.npr.org/2022/11/04/1134417921/could-foreign-workers-unlock-americas-tight-labor-market https://www.npr.org/2022/11/04/1134417921/could-foreign-work... ) This means that in the past it was possible to reliably get people to work on the H-2B visa, and now you can't. Additionally, those "out of work" meant that people had to leave and start over reducing the pool of H-2B visa workers.
colpabar 4y ago
Another way of saying this is that immigration inhibits wage growth.
- shagie 4y ago
  I would suggest a read of The Effect of Low-Skill Immigration Restrictions on US Firms and Workers: Evidence from a Randomized Lottery - https://www.nber.org/papers/w30589 https://www.nber.org/papers/w30589 and reconsider that position.

dukeofdoom 4y ago

The solution to this in Canada seems to be to allow a lot of immigrants from poorer countries, willing to live two to a bedroom. Fast food places, Walmart, and other places are now fully staffed thanks to that policy. I know for a fact that it's the case, because in my town it's a very large demographic change from recognizable ethnicity where 5 years ago there was almost none. Unfortunately Canada is a a very expensive place to live, and living 2 to a bedroom is how they can make the pay work.

VancouverMan 4y ago
I have noticed this, too, in numerous different cities and towns throughout Canada, over the same time period that you mention. This approach hasn't been good for anyone involved. The employees typically seem quite miserable, as would be expected given their circumstances. Economically, this approach also significantly increases demand for supply-constrained housing, health care, infrastructure, and goods. This in turn exacerbates Canada's current inflation problem, and it's made worse by these imported workers not offering any real (in the economic sense) productivity gains to help offset the increased demand. The combination of these factors, plus cultural differences, seems to have resulted in a steep decline in the customer experience at such establishments over that period of time, too. I now spend a small fraction of what I used to at such businesses because the experience is typically poor, at least relative to what it was in the past. I know others who have changed their spending habits, too, for the same reason.
- fundad 4y ago
  The payback is over generations. Children of immigrants historically have higher fertility rates and higher participation in the workforce. Someone seems miserable at work but they’re living for their grandkids.
dumpsterlid 4y ago
This isn't a solution, its just hurting people who have been so hurt other places that this comparative hurt is less bad. How twisted is it that you see this as a solution? The solution is workers joining together to enact leverage over the wealth horders in society and demanding better wages for everybody. The money is absolutely there in rich countries like the US and Canada.

jltsiren 4y ago

I've started to dislike this perspective, because it feels like an "if the only tool you have is a hammer..." kind of explanation. It's a valid perspective, but it's not the only one, and other perspectives are often more useful. Maybe the issue is just that hotels don't want to pay enough. Maybe there is an actual shortage. Then any single hotel can solve the shortage by paying more, but hotels in general can't. Or maybe hotels have to rethink their business models. It's an inevitable consequence of real wage growth that labor becomes more expensive relative to goods and services. At some point, the old ways are no longer viable. Hotels can't hire as many housekeepers as before, because people are not willing to pay enough for hotel rooms. Hotels must then find ways to provide housekeeping more efficiently with less labor.

wikfwikf 4y ago
What real wage growth?
- alistairSH 4y ago
  Wage growth vs inflation. If your wage goes up 10% but inflation is 11%, you actually have a real wage decrease. Generally speaking anyway.
hinata08 4y ago
Yes ! As you mentioned, that's basically competition in both ways, for once : expecting more affordable hotel rooms and wage increase at the same time Macroeconomicaly, that's basically automating casual and repetitive tasks to focus on value, with more skilled and demanding workers. I'm glad that automation is becoming more effective for these jobs ! I mean, robot vacuum cleaners have been a thing for over a decade. Why wouldn't hotels rely on them ? When visiting countries with a lower GDP in other parts of the planet, I was shocked by the madness of this cheap workforce : they cost nothing, so a lot of workers were working in pretty unproductive jobs. Like ppl don't drive, you have a taxi or tricycle driver to carry you around. If you're middle class, you have caretakers all around. And there is no automation at all, it's cheaper to hire unskilled. They were working much harder than were I'm from. But there wasn't any focus on value or production or anything. That's why I politically hate whoever blames jobseekers for any issue, and point these jobs. If you want to rebuild a lower GDP economy, yeah, send everyone to unpaid jobs. If you want to move forward, just automate everything, and let workers have jobs where they add a lot of value. (Disclaimer : I'm an industrial engineer who wanted to do robotics, but ended up doing DevSecOps/ IT only)

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Its not a shortage of workers, it's a shortage of underpayable workers. You can't have a shortage of underpayable workers, since a shortage means that quantity supplied is less than quantity demanded at every possible price point. What it is, is purchasers seeking government intervention in the market to artificially suppress market clearing prices.

altacc 4y ago

From this article and others that I have read, it is also about work/life balance. Pay is getting better in some places and that gives options. Previously those working 14 unsociable hours a day seemed to be either highly paid execs or lowly paid service workers (yes, a generalization). I imagine that the latter have jumped at the chance to move into the comfortable middle that a lot of HN readers occupy. Many economies have relied on significant numbers of people having no choice but to accept bad pay, conditions & hours and it'll take time to adjust but they really should. Everyone should be able to have a good work/life balance and be paid adequately for a full day's work.

noduerme 4y ago

Or an overabundance of educated, nonworking people who don't feel the need to do what they consider menial labor, because they don't need the money; likely because they're either still living with their boomer parents or said parents departed and left them with a bundle.

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago

This, in the article they complain that they already raised pay from $10/hour to $16/hour. In Baltimore, where minimum wage is currently $12.50 according to the DOL. "To keep the employees they do have, the couple tries to accommodate staff needs" yeah, that's what good employers should have been already doing before.

seydor 4y ago

Looking at europe i think it's an actual shortage of workers which leads them to pick (or hold on for) better jobs, and this is the new normal now, and you can't fix it with immigration either

tootie 4y ago

No, it's a shortage of workers. If they paid more they'd be competing with other industries who would then be the ones facing shortages.

artificialLimbs 4y ago

It's not a shortage of underpayable workers. The workers are still there. The problem is that it's illegal to hire them at all because of minimum wage. They've been priced out of the market and low margin employers can't afford them. Many at the bottom are unable to do anything except beg for help from others if they're not employable at wages that employers are willing to pay.