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Philadelphia Phreakers installing free payphone
- tux 4y agoOne of the best projects I've seen in years. This project should receive some sort of grant or at least award from Philadelphia. This brought back good memories :) EDIT: Hack The Planet and maybe @giantg2 for downvotes! ^_^
- giantg2 4y agoGood luck getting money from Philly. Philly is one of the poorest big cities. They certainly don't have money for anything like this. Better off looking for grants from rich people who work in Philly (I didn't say residents because most of them choose to live outside the city in places like Radnor).
- google234123 4y agoI bet with the right kick backs and working with the right unions, they could get millions. It’s also an incredibly corrupt city
- graupel 4y agoWait so this is a real....phone? Using old-school twisted pair phone lines? If it has a monthly cost that scales with use it must, but it seems like making this IP would be more practical, if a little less fun?
- c22 4y agoNo, they're using analog telephone adapters and Asterisk. [0] [0]: https://philtel.org/2022/12/15/asterisk-overview.html https://philtel.org/2022/12/15/asterisk-overview.html
- jonnycomputer 4y agoMy big worry with the disappearance of public pay-phones is for the homeless and other poor. However, I recently learned that there are often programs to assist them with getting cellular devices. All in all, a mobile device is probably much more useful than a public payphone (as long as they can keep it charged). I'm a little under-educated on what the actual reality of this situation is, tbh.
- Daltzn 4y agoEvery hospital I have ever been have a free phone in the ED waiting room. It’s common to see a homeless person using it. Has a list of numbers for shelters, taxis etc posted along side it.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoCritics often call the free phones Obama phones
- zikduruqe 4y agoWhich Lifeline phones started in 1985 under Regan. https://www.fcc.gov/general/lifeline-program-low-income-consumers https://www.fcc.gov/general/lifeline-program-low-income-cons... But it's easy to blame Obama.
- notinfuriated 4y agoIt was a relatively memorable moment of the 2012 election. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio I had a note in this comment on fraud, but it looks like there was probably a consistent pattern of waste/fraud for a long time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund#Waste_and_fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund#Waste_a...). There were some proven accusations of fraud in 2012 as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4cy95VFes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4cy95VFes
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- c22 4y agoSee also: futel http://futel.net/ http://futel.net/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32118936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32118936
- geocrasher 4y agoI'm not sure what surprised me more: Seeing a guy installing free payphones (a great idea!) or seeing the term "Phreaker" on HN :D
- Quarrelsome 4y ago> seeing the term "Phreaker" on HN its not _that_ uncommon is it? Given that phreakers are like the genesis of hackers.
- intelkishan 4y agoPhreakers were the second generation of hackers. The original hackers were a collective of students in MIT
- _joel 4y agoPhreaking is phone comms, which is a subset of hacking/cracking imho
- nbk_2000 4y agoThis is how I've always heard it categorized, since at least the early 90's.
- manv1 4y agoNo, phreakers have been around since the Bell system. That's Capt. Crunch etc.
- squarefoot 4y agoParent is probably referring to the Tech Model Railroad Club at MIT, which is considered the first recognized group of hackers and predates Capt. Crunch by at least a decade.
- 4y ago
- ipdashc 4y agoI'm somewhat acquainted with one of the guys running this effort, and it's really been amazing to see it go from "unknown niche hobby project" to "all over the news" practically overnight. Nobody is sure why the media seized on it so much, but in the course of a week or two, it went from completely obscure, to being reported on by a few Internet-based techy/nerdy media outlets, to being talked about by the mainstream news (NBC!). I guess people are more interested in payphones than expected. Though it does bum me out that a typical comment section on the mainstream news articles is 30% "why is the government spending money on this? Lower my taxes!!" It's a completely volunteer project guys, there is no government money involved... ah well.
- DannyBee 4y agoDo you know why does he pay per minute? Can't he hook it up to ooma or something that only charges the monthly regulatory fees?
- mmcgaha 4y agoI was thinking stick in a gsm module with $7/month airvoice sim. https://www.airvoicewireless.com/plan/monthy-plan https://www.airvoicewireless.com/plan/monthy-plan
- rizwank 4y agoThat crossover point on voice costs applies on wireless as well.
- mandelbrotwurst 4y agoMost likely he's not and the article contains an inaccuracy.
- StealYourself 4y agoThere is a crossover point on VoIP providers where the unlimited plan is worth it if your phone is making more than X minutes a month. I'm sure they'll switch it if they reach this point.
- xattt 4y agoTangential, but what would be the most expensive outgoing call destination from mainland North America, sat phones excluded?
- sbarre 4y agoNorth Korea I believe.. then all the little Pacific islands.
- lormayna 4y agoMany years ago I worked for a VOIP provider. The most expensive frauds that we detected was calling special service in remote place of the world like Tristan de Cunha, Nauru, Falkland or Buthan. Something like 50$ for minutes and 10$ at the response.
- willcipriano 4y agoNot a destination but my guess is one of these would be the most expensive call (I think some people here are young enough to not be aware of these): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premium-rate_telephone_number https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premium-rate_telephone_numbe...
- Scoundreller 4y agoFor a while there was a lot of in-cahoots fraud where a country’s telecom would make seemingly arbitrary numbers a premium rate $$$/min number and some uncareful VoIP providers got hosed. https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0919/058.html?sh=3e7f98cc6f10 https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0919/058.html?sh=3e7f98cc...
- walrus01 4y agoa few small pacific island nation-states that have no submarine cables and are entirely dependent upon geostationary satellite capacity and o3b right now, most likely. this is still satellite but does not go to the "special" country codes for calls to iridium or inmarsat. there's also a few "special" toll-bait destinations in the caribbean which are unusually costly due to the fees charged by their local telco as a revenue source.
- 4y ago
- CivBase 4y agoDoes anyone still make phone books? I can count the number of phone numbers I have memorized on one hand. Without access to a phone number registry of some sort, I think these would have extremely limited value to most people. It's a neat project though.
- sbarre 4y agoWhen I was younger some of my friends who had very limited income could often not afford to top up their cell phone minutes, but still had their phone with an address book full of numbers in their pocket. I would lend them my phone and they'd call someone from the list in their phone using my phone. I feel like someone who relies on free or community phones would have a similar book of numbers that are meaningful to them. Of course if you're looking to call somewhere new, then that's definitely an issue.
- c22 4y agoWhen I was a kid I had a DTMF tone-dialer which was a small device with all my numbers in it and a small speaker in a rubber cup. I could select a number from the list then hold the speaker against the receiver of a (hardwired) telephone to dial the number. I actually had two of these, the other of which I modified to simulate the signalling sound of dimes and quarters dropping into a payphone.
- binarymax 4y agoLooks like white pages can be ordered for free[0], but yellow pages ceased print copy in 2017. [0] https://www.verizon.com/about/our-company/white-pages https://www.verizon.com/about/our-company/white-pages
- _joel 4y agoIn the UK they were still about up until recently but became smaller and smaller. I've not had a landline for years now so not sure if they're still released now. I'd imagine not, but who knows.
- tclancy 4y agoSadly, they stopped giving them out around here almost a decade ago. Made me sad, because we got them in early October and every year I would hang onto it until near the end of the night on Halloween when some over-aged kid doing the ironic tour called out “Trick or treat” and I’d say “trick” and drop it in their pillowcase.
- elecush 4y agoreally great to consider what the younger generations will surmise
- Eleison23 4y ago
- bitwize 4y ago"...and never again pay for a service that would be dirt cheap, if it weren't run by a bunch of profiteering gluttons!" Hack the planet!
- finnh 4y ago> Mike Dank name checks out
- giantg2 4y ago
- mikestew 4y agoWhy disagree? I don't, necessarily. But you took a side comment and turned it into a very off-topic topic of discussion that has nothing to do with TFA. Have a downvote.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- giantg2 4y ago
- schoen 4y agoYou replied to a complaint about an off-topic post elsewhere with a further discussion of the substance of the off-topic issue. So other HN readers were probably not eager to have you continue that discussion in this thread.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- giantg2 4y ago[flagged]
- kepler1 4y agoHow long before someone with less-than-good intentions walks up and starts using this phone in ways that the creators didn't intend, and it has to be shut down?
- c22 4y agoLike as a bludgeoning weapon or something? Legally I think this service falls under common carrier protections.
- everybodyknows 4y agoUsers are apparently anonymous -- this will make it non-sustainable. One plausible fix: A video camera that records faces. Otherwise the homeless will be taking a beating from the local drug dealer whenever they get in the way of urgent business. Like this: Q. Do Links have cameras and what happens to the footage? There are two security cameras on each Link. https://www.link.nyc/faq.html https://www.link.nyc/faq.html
- jandrese 4y agoBeing somewhat famous and in a public place makes it less than ideal for calling in bomb threats or whatnot.
- vips7L 4y agoThis is Philadelphia. We will smash these things.
- niklasrde 4y agoBT in the UK has been replacing payphones with advertising billboard, with a little digital infopad, USB charging and free domestic calls. Calls are cheap as, they probably still make a profit with the advertising. It's win-win, though they are a bit of an eyesore.
- ascagnel_ 4y agoNYC has been doing the same thing, but there are concerns over tracking (the terminals are equipped with cameras that may or may not be running facial recognition software).
- mixmastamyk 4y agoWould either of you have links to pictures?
- ChrisArchitect 4y agoThis is all good, hack the planet and all that, but meanwhile there are Link NYC boxes with free calls all over NYC no? (debatable quality etc but still, they're there)
- aposm 4y agoHowever those are well-documented to be data-harvesting devices placed by a for-profit company, despite receiving government money as well. PhilTel is a non-profit volunteer organization run by community members.
- vinaypai 4y agoWhat data are they harvesting?
- c22 4y agoThe gas station near my house still runs a COCOT. I don't know what to tell you.
- StealYourself 4y ago
- vips7L 4y agoI wonder how long it will take before my fellow Philadelphians smash these things.
- dylan604 4y agoWhat? Are you saying the City of Brotherly Love is truly closer to the City of Brotherly Shove?
- nashashmi 4y agoNew Idea: Android tablet connected by wire (PoE?) with tap-and-pay NFC giving out a unique Wifi QR code. And that will give you pay-per-use-or by-minute internet at every booth. A free phone call is just a headphone plug away with voice activated calling. Full hardware with phone handle and/or tablet screen browsing is (much) extra.
- e_i_pi_2 4y agoI think the main goal here is that people using the phone don't have to pay for it. To that point though, it may be cheaper to use an existing (maybe thrown away) phone and just install it in a phone booth, then have an unlimited calling service set up so it's free for anyone on the street to use
- awiesenhofer 4y ago> pay-per-use Why would you charge for that? Especially if you want to help homeless etc.? Just make it a free wifi hotspot and be done with it.
- noAnswer 4y agoPay phones had a pay for Wifi options. (At least in Germany.) It didn't save them neither.
- ChrisArchitect 4y agoOther discussion on this earlier this month: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33851030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33851030
- slackfan 4y agoA free PAYphone seems like an oxymoron. Perhaps they meant public phone?
- Wohlf 4y agoIt's more about the image a payphone conjures in the mind, which is accurate.
- baron816 4y agoWill the pay phones support Apple Pay?
- jagged-chisel 4y agoIt supports any payment system that permits a sale of $0.00
- ourmandave 4y agoReminded me of 2600 magazine's reader pics of payphones from around the world. I haven't looked at a copy in forever so I don't know if it's still a thing.
- knewter 4y agoIt is and it is still why I go to the magazine stand if I'm in a bookstore
- tux 4y agoActually 2600 is still alive and well, they sell 2600 Magazine: The Hacker Quarterly @ Amazon. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600:_The_Hacker_Quarterly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600:_The_Hacker_Quarterly
- arthurjj 4y agoTheir podcast, off the hook is weekly and in the same spirit. https://www.2600.com/offthehook/ https://www.2600.com/offthehook/
- telcal 4y agoMy local Barnes and Noble still carries it in the magazine section.
- plusminusplus 4y agoWho's listening in?
- tecleandor 4y agoTime really flies! I still remember when my friends from the Patio Maravillas social center in Madrid set up one in this style... in 2009 ! At the time and in the beginning, it was a bunch of countries only, as VoIP gateways weren't as popular as now. https://web.archive.org/web/20090402170754/http://www.patiomaravillas.net/hamlab/llama-por-la-patilla-con-isaac https://web.archive.org/web/20090402170754/http://www.patiom... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_Maravillas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_Maravillas
- martyvis 4y agoAll the 15000 payphones in Australia are free and have WiFi. https://www.telstra.com.au/consumer-advice/payphones https://www.telstra.com.au/consumer-advice/payphones
- sillypuddy 4y agoWho pays for them to be free?
- femto 4y agoIt's worth it to Telstra, to hold onto the real estate. They have effectively been been gifted a nationwide network of plots of land and structures that turn out to be a good match for 5G/6G/WiFi base station locations. They are probably kicking themselves for ripping out so many phones in the past, thus giving up the locations.
- dragonsky67 4y agoThey have a requirement to provide community phones, the cost of calls is trivial when compared with the cost of emptying coin draws and combating people trying to get a free call.
- mcbridematt 4y agoIt's part of what's called the Universal Service Obligation (USO) for which Telstra (the dominant carrier) is responsible for delivering: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/media-technology-communications/phone/phone-services/universal-service-guarantee-telecommunications/universal-service-obligation https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/media-technology-communica... The money comes from a levy on telecommunications carriers (Telstra included, but also most of it's competitors). There was a bit of conjecture in the media that the "free" payphones were really being paid for by the other telcos, once the money Telstra contributes is discounted.
- thrownaway561 4y agoI applaud this in so many ways... however the realist in me knows that, like most pay phones, this thing will be vandalized in a matter of weeks.
- theonething 4y agoanyone remember the needles in coin return slot scare growing up? We didn't the internet to check if it was real so I'd always be a little paranoid when getting my coins back. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/slots-of-fun/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/slots-of-fun/
- pmarreck 4y agoI love that a phone phreaker has a "free payphone" hobby project!
- dragonsky67 4y agoIn Australia a couple of years ago Telstra, which I believe is required by the government to provide public phones. They have discovered that it's cheaper to just provide the phones free rather than have to continuously repair them after people try to jack the coin hopper or deal with support for refunding card payments when the payment succeeds but the call does not go through. https://exchange.telstra.com.au/why-were-making-payphones-free-for-calls-around-australia/ https://exchange.telstra.com.au/why-were-making-payphones-fr...
- SQueeeeeL 4y ago'Something something, tragedy of the commons. Some veiled comment about "undesirables" using the phones all the time. There's no such thing as a free lunch, this is a perversion of all known theory to not force a profit.'
- batiudrami 4y agoTelstra also installs large digital billboards on the back of many pay phones which is why there are still so many in urban areas.
- AirMax98 4y agoHa — was just outside of this place. Sure enough, someone was actually on a call on this thing!