20 ms·

CLEAR is a pox on America’s airports

158 points by jvandonsel 4y ago

crmd 4y ago
Wow this author is salty. Wait till they find out you can pay money for expedited passport renewal and for Group 1 boarding of the aircraft and for an Uber to pick you up 5 minutes early on the way to the airport.
- 8jy89hui 4y ago
  I disagree with the author regarding their complains surrounding rich people going through life easier. Unfortunately that will always be possible and complaining about it muddied this article However, I agree with the author that a private company should not be getting between me and my government. I am okay with TSA as long as it is my government making sure airports are safe. I am fine with paying more for expedited passports because that is a deal between me and my government. I am fine with expedited boarding because that never involved my government and it never should. This is a situation, like the author said, that is similar to the intuit catastrophe. Paying CLEAR is equivalent (in the long term) to ensuring that no forward progress is made on simplifying and expediting airport security.
  - crmd 4y ago
    That’s a valuable distinction you are pointing out. I agree 100% in theory. For example, on certain municipal websites in New York City where I live, credit cards are not natively accepted for transactions, but a link is provided to an authorized private company who charges a non-trivial commission. This is problematic. On the other hand though, I returned yesterday from a business trip to Israel, where taxes fund a highly functional and adequate healthcare system, but many well-to-do tech workers also pay for private health insurance which allows your family members to be seen almost immediately by a specialist when needed. I would be okay with this system in the United States as a compromise to supersede the dysfunctional system we have now.
- ThePadawan 4y ago
  > Wait till they find out you can pay money for expedited passport renewal Can you? Not in my country of residence. > and for Group 1 boarding of the aircraft That's not a monopoly - you're free to choose any airline you want if you want to pay them for extra service. > and for an Uber to pick you up 5 minutes early on the way to the airport. Once again, you as the consumer have a choice of supplier.
- dqpb 4y ago
  I don't really understand the appeal of early boarding. I want to spend as little time on the plane as possible.
blix 4y ago
"I pay money to cut people in line, but someone else paid more money to cut me in line!"
- troydavis 4y ago
  TSA Pre-Check charges $78/5 years to recover the cost of the screening process, which they've documented incredibly well: https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/fee-development-report.pdf https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/fee-development-repo...
  - blix 4y ago
    TSA Pre-Check's artifically low, non-market price for line cutting is the reason Clear isn't selling for $100+ per flight, with several layers of price discrimination.
    - bourbonjuggler 4y ago
      I don't think Clear would have the same number of customers if they charged that much. Everyone would continue to stand in line and complain about how bad the TSA is at its job.
      - blix 4y ago
        If it were an option selected when purchasing a ticket, I suspect it would be on the order of first/business class in terms of popularity. Maybe the price point needs some work, but certainly ~a lot~ more than $15/yr for the first tier of priority). Clear and Pre-Check both have signficant friction to sign-up. If line cutting was offered with little friction (i.e. without security considerations), I think it would be quite popular.
    - Jiro 4y ago
      In a free market, there wouldn't be a need to sell line cutting in the first place because it would be legal to run an airline that you can fly on without dealing with the TSA at all. Forcing everyone to go through the TSA is inherently non-market, so there can't be a market price for it.
blakesterz 4y ago
"Airports empower Clear Secure’s employees to issue instructions to all flyers going through security—including those who never signed up for CLEAR." That's... interesting. So if I'm reading that right someone working for Clear at the airport can just wave anyone through? And/Or stop anyone from getting to their plane?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- joezydeco 4y ago
  No, it's saying Clear employees can manage the line of travelers. They have permission from the airport to ask non-Clear people to back up and wait, as the author mentions at the start of the article. TSA has no control over that part of the queue.
- sliken 4y ago
  So they can maximally inconvenience the non-customers. Things like, "oh, you waited for 2 hours and are about to miss your plane? Please back up so our special customer can jump the line". Cost optimization can turn anything to crap. As a kid I used to go to amusement parks on off days and get 10-20x the riding in, because nobody was there. Often could go from a ride exit to a ride entrance and hop right into a seat. Now they "optimize" this, run rides so you always have to wait 20-30 minutes.
Pulcinella 4y ago
The solution• to these kinds of problems is integration. If some people have their wants and needs meet and their complaints addressed far more often than the rest of us, then the only way for the system to get better for everyone is if those people are mixed in with the rest of us and don’t just get to opt out and use a better system just for them. •Also in this case abolish the TSA. Useless make work security theater.
- marssaxman 4y ago
  I agree completely, and this is why I refuse to get precheck.
  - Schiendelman 4y ago
    Hey, haven't talked to you in years! Great to see your handle. :) I did eventually get precheck but I agree with the theory. I just can't inconvenience myself that much 40+ times a year.
    - marssaxman 4y ago
      Oh hey! Good to see you. Still in Seattle, or did you move on? I certainly wouldn't judge anyone for using precheck; it's probably the practical choice. I have simply chosen to be (politely) obstinate about TSA procedures as a form of protest; a little bit of monkeywrenching by doing it all the hard way.
      - Schiendelman 4y ago
        I am indeed still in Seattle; I moved to Cupertino for a year but came back to the climate I'm used to. :) I totally appreciate what you're doing! I wish there were a way to make it painful for the TSA.
- dave78 4y ago
  CLEAR and PreCheck are small potatoes. What I want is to require everyone who flies to go through the TSA line, including anyone flying private. Don't allow congresspeople to bypass the TSA (which I believe they're allowed to do). If the people in charge of the government and the multimillionaires and billionaires who control them had to go through that, I bet there'd be a lot more interest in fixing things. I want to see the President of the United States stand in a crappy TSA line like the rest of us each time he boards his VC25.
manicennui 4y ago
"Clear Secure CEO Caryn Seidman-Becker has big plans for her company’s core product. In a profile in Forbes last year she said that 'We want Clear to become part of people’s daily habit, to go from 12 times a year using it—which is how people on average were using it in airports—to 12 times a day.'" Disgusting.
- etrautmann 4y ago
  Couldn't agree more. We need better ways of fighting against this at multiple levels. No CEO should even aspire to be so intrusive and rent seeking. Part of this seems cultural, though I'm not sure what the fix is.
  - subharmonicon 4y ago
    What exactly do you want to fight against? People pay for access, convenience, and improved service in many areas of life. Better passes at Disney World. VIP concert tickets that get you access to abundant restrooms, better food and drinks. I’ve seen some restaurants in S.F. that seem to have moved to a model where depending on which part of the restaurant you reserve you get different menus and service (I forget which, but saw that this summer). Honest question, I’m not sure exactly what it is you want to disallow - can you elaborate?
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      For one thing it exacerbates inequality and makes it even more in your face. Inequality is the cancer that is destroying the US and other "democracies."
    - CogitoCogito 4y ago
      > Honest question, I’m not sure exactly what it is you want to disallow - can you elaborate? You’re not replying to me, but I think any and all prioritization in security lines should be outlawed.
    - etrautmann 4y ago
      I specifically would prefer to live in a culture that 1) establishes societal expectations of a relatively even playing field, and 2) encourages companies that seek to add value, not rent seek. Clear is a perfect example of a company that exists to extract value from a system, and and company that will fight to maintain the status quo of a shitty experience for everyone else. Every time I pass the Clear line, I wonder why some private enterprise was given this space, and handed this right to insert themselves in the security process.
bourbonjuggler 4y ago
rayiner 4y ago
Perhaps the civilizational feature america inherited from the British is their love of standing in lines: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-tjgyWQ8nU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-tjgyWQ8nU. Like, I’m pretty sure if you did a scatter plot of how readily people queue up and GDP per capita you’d see a close relationship. I love using Clear but I feel like I’m contributing to the downfall of American society by using it.
- vmilner 4y ago
  The ultimate British queue... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xHwUycV6wSY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xHwUycV6wSY
Apreche 4y ago
I really don't see Clear, TSA precheck, etc. as any different from a computer security company that also is responsible for releasing viruses and exploits into the world. The long lines at airports don't need to exist. It's security theater. They are selling a solution to a problem of their own making. The fact that that problem is a gateway to a necessity (for many) like air travel, puts it clearly in the category of extortion. If I were in charge, Clear's business would be outright illegal.
- Kaibeezy 4y ago
  If you read my other comment, you can see we are 180° apart… or are we? I want a smooth path through a miserable situation, so I take the best option available. There’s no way security lines are slow so-and-only-so that Clear may exist; slow seems inevitable. How may I help bring about this world of line-free travel for all?
  - rhn_mk1 4y ago
    How is slow inevitable if companies like Clear can get rid of it?
    - Kaibeezy 4y ago
      I meant it seems inevitable if third-party/private solutions would not be allowed. It also seems possible a fast and efficient government solution could be developed. I don’t suppose I should hold my breath on that one, eh? That said, I’ve noticed the lines at Global Entry are now often longer than regular ordinary passport control. Maybe put that management team on the pre-check situation.
      - rhn_mk1 4y ago
        Then you mean that a better policy would solve it, but a policy failure is inevitable. I think that's exactly what the previous poster meant: that the long lines are a result of a failed policy.
    - 4y ago
Kaibeezy 4y ago
What’s the hoo-ha here? My expectations of privacy while flying are zero. Heck, Delta lets me on board via facial recognition, don’t even have to show the boarding pass. Passport control is photo based too. My understanding of Clear is they positively identify me via iris scan, then match it up to a background check and my KTN. With that, I’m a “known traveler” and don’t need an experienced officer to review my documents. $100 or $189 is trivial compared to all the plane tickets and other expenses of travel. Over a couple dozen trips a year, I’m grateful for the reduction in waiting time and stress. If there was another tier that had an even faster and more pleasant experience, maybe off to the side somewhere, I’d pay double.
- dumpsterlid 4y ago
  "$100 or $189 is trivial compared to all the plane tickets and other expenses of travel. Over a couple dozen trips a year, I’m grateful for the reduction in waiting time and stress." Don't assume everyone else has the privilege of not being worried about an additional $100-$200 cost to airline travel, it isn't a cute look.
  - Kaibeezy 4y ago
    Well, yeah, if you fly once a year. So don’t buy Clear. If you’re on 80 planes a year, maybe buy Clear. Seems an obvious implication of “a couple dozen trips a year”, but now I’ve said it expressly.
    - dumpsterlid 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - Kaibeezy 4y ago
        Many people travel as part of their job.
      - dang 4y ago
        Personal attacks are not allowed here, regardless of how justified they are or you feel they are. You've been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly, so I've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
balderdash 4y ago
I totally agree with this article. I have TSA pre, have several parties with who are willing to subsidize my clear membership (credit cards, FF programs etc.), and I get super pissed by the line cutting. Yet I refuse to join clear for two reasons. 1) I do not trust a private company to use and protect my biometric data (yes the govt isn’t much better, but that ship sailed when I got a passport/DL). And 2) I think it’s morally wrong to privatize access to federal services.
- etrautmann 4y ago
  Companies like Clear benefit from the situation being awful, and will thus be invested to maintain the status quo. Much like Intuit lobbying to keep tax preparation difficult to protect their interests providing tax preparation software.
- subharmonicon 4y ago
  You’re making a choice not to share your biometrics because you don’t trust the company to use and protect your biometric data. Fair enough. Shouldn’t I have the choice to trust them and get the improved service due to their being able to do the biometric check? I’m not sure what you mean by privatizing access to federal services. You still have access to that service. If you mean privatizing the administration of the service, well TSA screeners are staffed by private contractors. If you’re arguing that the federal government should even the playing field and provide the option to supply them with biometrics and get better service as a result (and get Clear out of the way), then I would certainly agree with that. But honestly I am not sure what you’re arguing for, other than denying people access to a service they are willing to make the privacy trade-off for because it bothers you they get through security faster than you do.
- kjhkjhkhjkhjk 4y ago
  What's morally wrong about validating identity through biometrics?
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Nothing, it’s the paid for line cutting that is the problem (with airports getting a cut for enabling it). TSA could do the same biometrics verification, and arguably does with their latest credential authentication tech, where your ID is what is used to proof your travel plans at the agent podium. It’s a short hop to TSA doing facial recognition instead of scanning your ID. With CLEAR, the biometrics are just the theater to enable the venue rev share and traveler benefit (cutting the line). https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/credential-authentication-technology https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/credential-aut...
dixie_land 4y ago
I traveled recently with Clear Plus Precheck In one airport I noticed I didn't have to show my ID at all, only boarding pass (QR code on my phone). On the return leg I didn't even have to scan my boarding pass. As someone who hasn't got real ID yet, this Is a good hack for me.
nunez 4y ago
I don't think CLEAR would exist if Pre were more expensive. Its price seems to be the only gate keeping its lines short.
1letterunixname 4y ago
Monetizing misery in the security screening lane. To be fair, if someone goes through the cost, time, and privacy invasion to get line cutting, more power to them. Pre I think is okay, Clear seems dubious. Clear, similar to public-private partnerships, generally shouldn't exist. Airports and airlines are businesses, not government facilities or public commons. The primary reason the TSA exists is so profit motives don't trump security standards and end up with another 9/11.
43920 4y ago
The line-cutting is annoying, but the whole thing is just an excuse for the collection of biometric data, which is a much larger issue. Clear's business model is pretty clear - they'll annoy a large portion of America into giving them their biometrics, and once they have that, expand across the country into some kind of semi-mandatory subscription to access businesses or public spaces. How else does Clear become a "daily habit" used "12 times a day", as the CEO says in the article? This has huge potential to track people everywhere they go. It's also not hard to imagine Clear adding some kind of "risk score" that bans people from every Clear-enabled business, which has massive potential for abuse.
smsm42 4y ago
I have TSA Pre and I am glad I got it. But I tried CLEAR (they had some free trials early on) and tbh I don't see much point. Yes, you get to cut the line. I've never waited in Pre line more than 5-10 mins. Why would I pay for it? While $200/yr is not really a big deal I just don't see much point. Maybe if I were an executive important enough so 10 mins matter but not important enough to get their own private jet - I'd get it, but otherwise - no. That said, I don't see them making anything worse. Yes, it's kinda annoying that some company gets to earn money for solving a problem that shouldn't be a problem from the start, and with zero competition at that, but in a grand scheme of things it's not bothering me that much. Their plans about "12 times a day" look spooky though - what do they plan to do for me to need ID verification services that often?

158 points by jvandonsel 4y ago

crmd 4y ago

Wow this author is salty. Wait till they find out you can pay money for expedited passport renewal and for Group 1 boarding of the aircraft and for an Uber to pick you up 5 minutes early on the way to the airport.

8jy89hui 4y ago
I disagree with the author regarding their complains surrounding rich people going through life easier. Unfortunately that will always be possible and complaining about it muddied this article However, I agree with the author that a private company should not be getting between me and my government. I am okay with TSA as long as it is my government making sure airports are safe. I am fine with paying more for expedited passports because that is a deal between me and my government. I am fine with expedited boarding because that never involved my government and it never should. This is a situation, like the author said, that is similar to the intuit catastrophe. Paying CLEAR is equivalent (in the long term) to ensuring that no forward progress is made on simplifying and expediting airport security.
- crmd 4y ago
  That’s a valuable distinction you are pointing out. I agree 100% in theory. For example, on certain municipal websites in New York City where I live, credit cards are not natively accepted for transactions, but a link is provided to an authorized private company who charges a non-trivial commission. This is problematic. On the other hand though, I returned yesterday from a business trip to Israel, where taxes fund a highly functional and adequate healthcare system, but many well-to-do tech workers also pay for private health insurance which allows your family members to be seen almost immediately by a specialist when needed. I would be okay with this system in the United States as a compromise to supersede the dysfunctional system we have now.
ThePadawan 4y ago
> Wait till they find out you can pay money for expedited passport renewal Can you? Not in my country of residence. > and for Group 1 boarding of the aircraft That's not a monopoly - you're free to choose any airline you want if you want to pay them for extra service. > and for an Uber to pick you up 5 minutes early on the way to the airport. Once again, you as the consumer have a choice of supplier.
dqpb 4y ago
I don't really understand the appeal of early boarding. I want to spend as little time on the plane as possible.

blix 4y ago

"I pay money to cut people in line, but someone else paid more money to cut me in line!"

troydavis 4y ago
TSA Pre-Check charges $78/5 years to recover the cost of the screening process, which they've documented incredibly well: https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/fee-development-report.pdf https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/fee-development-repo...
- blix 4y ago
  TSA Pre-Check's artifically low, non-market price for line cutting is the reason Clear isn't selling for $100+ per flight, with several layers of price discrimination.
  - bourbonjuggler 4y ago
    I don't think Clear would have the same number of customers if they charged that much. Everyone would continue to stand in line and complain about how bad the TSA is at its job.
    - blix 4y ago
      If it were an option selected when purchasing a ticket, I suspect it would be on the order of first/business class in terms of popularity. Maybe the price point needs some work, but certainly ~a lot~ more than $15/yr for the first tier of priority). Clear and Pre-Check both have signficant friction to sign-up. If line cutting was offered with little friction (i.e. without security considerations), I think it would be quite popular.
  - Jiro 4y ago
    In a free market, there wouldn't be a need to sell line cutting in the first place because it would be legal to run an airline that you can fly on without dealing with the TSA at all. Forcing everyone to go through the TSA is inherently non-market, so there can't be a market price for it.

blakesterz 4y ago

"Airports empower Clear Secure’s employees to issue instructions to all flyers going through security—including those who never signed up for CLEAR." That's... interesting. So if I'm reading that right someone working for Clear at the airport can just wave anyone through? And/Or stop anyone from getting to their plane?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
joezydeco 4y ago
No, it's saying Clear employees can manage the line of travelers. They have permission from the airport to ask non-Clear people to back up and wait, as the author mentions at the start of the article. TSA has no control over that part of the queue.
sliken 4y ago
So they can maximally inconvenience the non-customers. Things like, "oh, you waited for 2 hours and are about to miss your plane? Please back up so our special customer can jump the line". Cost optimization can turn anything to crap. As a kid I used to go to amusement parks on off days and get 10-20x the riding in, because nobody was there. Often could go from a ride exit to a ride entrance and hop right into a seat. Now they "optimize" this, run rides so you always have to wait 20-30 minutes.

Pulcinella 4y ago

The solution• to these kinds of problems is integration. If some people have their wants and needs meet and their complaints addressed far more often than the rest of us, then the only way for the system to get better for everyone is if those people are mixed in with the rest of us and don’t just get to opt out and use a better system just for them. •Also in this case abolish the TSA. Useless make work security theater.

marssaxman 4y ago
I agree completely, and this is why I refuse to get precheck.
- Schiendelman 4y ago
  Hey, haven't talked to you in years! Great to see your handle. :) I did eventually get precheck but I agree with the theory. I just can't inconvenience myself that much 40+ times a year.
  - marssaxman 4y ago
    Oh hey! Good to see you. Still in Seattle, or did you move on? I certainly wouldn't judge anyone for using precheck; it's probably the practical choice. I have simply chosen to be (politely) obstinate about TSA procedures as a form of protest; a little bit of monkeywrenching by doing it all the hard way.
    - Schiendelman 4y ago
      I am indeed still in Seattle; I moved to Cupertino for a year but came back to the climate I'm used to. :) I totally appreciate what you're doing! I wish there were a way to make it painful for the TSA.
dave78 4y ago
CLEAR and PreCheck are small potatoes. What I want is to require everyone who flies to go through the TSA line, including anyone flying private. Don't allow congresspeople to bypass the TSA (which I believe they're allowed to do). If the people in charge of the government and the multimillionaires and billionaires who control them had to go through that, I bet there'd be a lot more interest in fixing things. I want to see the President of the United States stand in a crappy TSA line like the rest of us each time he boards his VC25.

manicennui 4y ago

"Clear Secure CEO Caryn Seidman-Becker has big plans for her company’s core product. In a profile in Forbes last year she said that 'We want Clear to become part of people’s daily habit, to go from 12 times a year using it—which is how people on average were using it in airports—to 12 times a day.'" Disgusting.

etrautmann 4y ago
Couldn't agree more. We need better ways of fighting against this at multiple levels. No CEO should even aspire to be so intrusive and rent seeking. Part of this seems cultural, though I'm not sure what the fix is.
- subharmonicon 4y ago
  What exactly do you want to fight against? People pay for access, convenience, and improved service in many areas of life. Better passes at Disney World. VIP concert tickets that get you access to abundant restrooms, better food and drinks. I’ve seen some restaurants in S.F. that seem to have moved to a model where depending on which part of the restaurant you reserve you get different menus and service (I forget which, but saw that this summer). Honest question, I’m not sure exactly what it is you want to disallow - can you elaborate?
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    For one thing it exacerbates inequality and makes it even more in your face. Inequality is the cancer that is destroying the US and other "democracies."
  - CogitoCogito 4y ago
    > Honest question, I’m not sure exactly what it is you want to disallow - can you elaborate? You’re not replying to me, but I think any and all prioritization in security lines should be outlawed.
  - etrautmann 4y ago
    I specifically would prefer to live in a culture that 1) establishes societal expectations of a relatively even playing field, and 2) encourages companies that seek to add value, not rent seek. Clear is a perfect example of a company that exists to extract value from a system, and and company that will fight to maintain the status quo of a shitty experience for everyone else. Every time I pass the Clear line, I wonder why some private enterprise was given this space, and handed this right to insert themselves in the security process.

bourbonjuggler 4y ago

rayiner 4y ago

Perhaps the civilizational feature america inherited from the British is their love of standing in lines: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-tjgyWQ8nU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-tjgyWQ8nU. Like, I’m pretty sure if you did a scatter plot of how readily people queue up and GDP per capita you’d see a close relationship. I love using Clear but I feel like I’m contributing to the downfall of American society by using it.

vmilner 4y ago
The ultimate British queue... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xHwUycV6wSY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xHwUycV6wSY

Apreche 4y ago

I really don't see Clear, TSA precheck, etc. as any different from a computer security company that also is responsible for releasing viruses and exploits into the world. The long lines at airports don't need to exist. It's security theater. They are selling a solution to a problem of their own making. The fact that that problem is a gateway to a necessity (for many) like air travel, puts it clearly in the category of extortion. If I were in charge, Clear's business would be outright illegal.

Kaibeezy 4y ago
If you read my other comment, you can see we are 180° apart… or are we? I want a smooth path through a miserable situation, so I take the best option available. There’s no way security lines are slow so-and-only-so that Clear may exist; slow seems inevitable. How may I help bring about this world of line-free travel for all?
- rhn_mk1 4y ago
  How is slow inevitable if companies like Clear can get rid of it?
  - Kaibeezy 4y ago
    I meant it seems inevitable if third-party/private solutions would not be allowed. It also seems possible a fast and efficient government solution could be developed. I don’t suppose I should hold my breath on that one, eh? That said, I’ve noticed the lines at Global Entry are now often longer than regular ordinary passport control. Maybe put that management team on the pre-check situation.
    - rhn_mk1 4y ago
      Then you mean that a better policy would solve it, but a policy failure is inevitable. I think that's exactly what the previous poster meant: that the long lines are a result of a failed policy.
  - 4y ago

Kaibeezy 4y ago

What’s the hoo-ha here? My expectations of privacy while flying are zero. Heck, Delta lets me on board via facial recognition, don’t even have to show the boarding pass. Passport control is photo based too. My understanding of Clear is they positively identify me via iris scan, then match it up to a background check and my KTN. With that, I’m a “known traveler” and don’t need an experienced officer to review my documents. $100 or $189 is trivial compared to all the plane tickets and other expenses of travel. Over a couple dozen trips a year, I’m grateful for the reduction in waiting time and stress. If there was another tier that had an even faster and more pleasant experience, maybe off to the side somewhere, I’d pay double.

dumpsterlid 4y ago
"$100 or $189 is trivial compared to all the plane tickets and other expenses of travel. Over a couple dozen trips a year, I’m grateful for the reduction in waiting time and stress." Don't assume everyone else has the privilege of not being worried about an additional $100-$200 cost to airline travel, it isn't a cute look.
- Kaibeezy 4y ago
  Well, yeah, if you fly once a year. So don’t buy Clear. If you’re on 80 planes a year, maybe buy Clear. Seems an obvious implication of “a couple dozen trips a year”, but now I’ve said it expressly.
  - dumpsterlid 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Kaibeezy 4y ago
      Many people travel as part of their job.
    - dang 4y ago
      Personal attacks are not allowed here, regardless of how justified they are or you feel they are. You've been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly, so I've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

balderdash 4y ago

I totally agree with this article. I have TSA pre, have several parties with who are willing to subsidize my clear membership (credit cards, FF programs etc.), and I get super pissed by the line cutting. Yet I refuse to join clear for two reasons. 1) I do not trust a private company to use and protect my biometric data (yes the govt isn’t much better, but that ship sailed when I got a passport/DL). And 2) I think it’s morally wrong to privatize access to federal services.

etrautmann 4y ago
Companies like Clear benefit from the situation being awful, and will thus be invested to maintain the status quo. Much like Intuit lobbying to keep tax preparation difficult to protect their interests providing tax preparation software.
subharmonicon 4y ago
You’re making a choice not to share your biometrics because you don’t trust the company to use and protect your biometric data. Fair enough. Shouldn’t I have the choice to trust them and get the improved service due to their being able to do the biometric check? I’m not sure what you mean by privatizing access to federal services. You still have access to that service. If you mean privatizing the administration of the service, well TSA screeners are staffed by private contractors. If you’re arguing that the federal government should even the playing field and provide the option to supply them with biometrics and get better service as a result (and get Clear out of the way), then I would certainly agree with that. But honestly I am not sure what you’re arguing for, other than denying people access to a service they are willing to make the privacy trade-off for because it bothers you they get through security faster than you do.
kjhkjhkhjkhjk 4y ago
What's morally wrong about validating identity through biometrics?
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Nothing, it’s the paid for line cutting that is the problem (with airports getting a cut for enabling it). TSA could do the same biometrics verification, and arguably does with their latest credential authentication tech, where your ID is what is used to proof your travel plans at the agent podium. It’s a short hop to TSA doing facial recognition instead of scanning your ID. With CLEAR, the biometrics are just the theater to enable the venue rev share and traveler benefit (cutting the line). https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/credential-authentication-technology https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/credential-aut...

dixie_land 4y ago

I traveled recently with Clear Plus Precheck In one airport I noticed I didn't have to show my ID at all, only boarding pass (QR code on my phone). On the return leg I didn't even have to scan my boarding pass. As someone who hasn't got real ID yet, this Is a good hack for me.

nunez 4y ago

I don't think CLEAR would exist if Pre were more expensive. Its price seems to be the only gate keeping its lines short.

1letterunixname 4y ago

Monetizing misery in the security screening lane. To be fair, if someone goes through the cost, time, and privacy invasion to get line cutting, more power to them. Pre I think is okay, Clear seems dubious. Clear, similar to public-private partnerships, generally shouldn't exist. Airports and airlines are businesses, not government facilities or public commons. The primary reason the TSA exists is so profit motives don't trump security standards and end up with another 9/11.

43920 4y ago

The line-cutting is annoying, but the whole thing is just an excuse for the collection of biometric data, which is a much larger issue. Clear's business model is pretty clear - they'll annoy a large portion of America into giving them their biometrics, and once they have that, expand across the country into some kind of semi-mandatory subscription to access businesses or public spaces. How else does Clear become a "daily habit" used "12 times a day", as the CEO says in the article? This has huge potential to track people everywhere they go. It's also not hard to imagine Clear adding some kind of "risk score" that bans people from every Clear-enabled business, which has massive potential for abuse.

smsm42 4y ago

I have TSA Pre and I am glad I got it. But I tried CLEAR (they had some free trials early on) and tbh I don't see much point. Yes, you get to cut the line. I've never waited in Pre line more than 5-10 mins. Why would I pay for it? While $200/yr is not really a big deal I just don't see much point. Maybe if I were an executive important enough so 10 mins matter but not important enough to get their own private jet - I'd get it, but otherwise - no. That said, I don't see them making anything worse. Yes, it's kinda annoying that some company gets to earn money for solving a problem that shouldn't be a problem from the start, and with zero competition at that, but in a grand scheme of things it's not bothering me that much. Their plans about "12 times a day" look spooky though - what do they plan to do for me to need ID verification services that often?