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I think it's amusing as hell how the founder of Binance had a spat with SBF and was partly responsible for hurrying along the collapse of FTX (though that dumps

I think it's amusing as hell how the founder of Binance had a spat with SBF and was partly responsible for hurrying along the collapse of FTX (though that dumpster fire was doomed anyhow), and is now reaping the whirlwind of his own backstabbing of another major crypto bro. Note: I personally believe in the utility of crypto and think much of the hate for it on HN is downright idiotic and ignorant, but giant shenanigans like these are are a separate matter of natural human greed, fraud, lies and self destructive foolishness. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/nov/11/binance-ftx-collapse-cryptocurrency-exchange-changpeng-zhao https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/nov/11/binance-f...

FormerBandmate 4y ago
And it was over Twitter of all things. This is the history of 19th century banking repeating itself as a giant farce
- corv 4y ago
  Of course letting everyone print their own money is a farce and doesn't actually generate any value for society. In that sense Binance is guilty here with their BNB token, having also set the example for FTX' FTT token.
  - YawningAngel 4y ago
    To be fair to Binance, they have thus far honoured their wildcat dollars.
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      Wildcat banks always honor their receipts. Until they suddenly don't
cuteboy19 4y ago
A lot of the journalism is being done by coindesk on this topic. Coindesk is owned by the same company who owns Gemini, a rival exchange. So it is indeed poetic
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  I think you have made a mistake. DCG owns CoinDesk but not Gemini. https://www.reuters.com/technology/crypto-exchange-gemini-trying-recover-900-million-crypto-lender-genesis-ft-2022-12-03/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/crypto-exchange-gemini-tr...
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    Yes, thanks for the correction
oneoff786 4y ago
There’s a lot of human systems that would be great if not for the humans!
deebosong 4y ago
I'm sure you've fielded this Q many times. I don't wanna be a full-on hater of crypto. And I do wanna hear of use-cases that are relevant and intuitively understandable or at baseline, usable, to laymen. What utility do you see – through all the noise and chaos and human flaws that taint all things – from crypto, that to you just makes sense and will prevail in light of all the deserved and undeserved criticism?
- arch1e 4y ago
  My country is cracking down on civil liberties (I'm not talking the ability to not take certain vaccines), I'm talking about religious freedom among other things and crypto like XMR gives me a way to make sure I am able to buy stuff like Mullvad VPN (again for privacy) without going through a centralized payment processor. This is just one instance though, I even get domains from njall.la now with XMR/crypto and enjoy a lot of privacy benefits (coming from godaddy)
  - m00dy 4y ago
    you are not alone...
  - okasaki 4y ago
    Ah ok, the use case is breaking the law.
    - brookst 4y ago
      I read it as maintaining privacy while doing legal things that a corrupt government might punish despite their legality. What led you to think laws are being broken in those scenarios?
    - keyme 4y ago
      Yes. Or, in other words, maintaining morality despite laws.
    - andrepd 4y ago
      Yes, it may surprise you that the women in Iran, for instance, are breaking the law. And so did the people who founded the USA, in another example. Law ≠ moralityb
criddell 4y ago
> I personally believe in the utility of crypto That seeing utility in crypto requires faith is telling.
- cokeandpepsi 4y ago
  the real utility in being able to play HFT-arbitrage trader at home without all the rules and regulations tied to other markets i'm not a fan personally having worked for a time with people invovled in crypto, it just feels like the condensiation of everything wrong with technology eitherway imo the rise of legal gambling apps will probably kill the industry since that scratches the itch most people went to cryptocurrency to remedy
- seydor 4y ago
  In particular, it requires lack of faith (in forced currency). Crypto followers right now are like atheists in medieval europe.
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
"Believe" means faith which is inherently non rational. Nothing ignorant about not sharing someone's religion.
onecommentman 4y ago
Who makes these changes? I shoot an arrow right. It lands left. I ride after a deer and find myself chased by a hog. I plot to get what I want and end up in prison. I dig pits to trap others and fall in. I should be suspicious of what I want. - Rumi (13th C Persian poet, tr. Barks)
renewiltord 4y ago
Unlikely he just attacked on his own tbh. Probably retaliation for SBF trying to sic OFAC on Binance.
vsareto 4y ago
Technically separate? Definitely. But you can't separate exchanges from crypto now. It's how pretty much all mainstream marketing happens for crypto at this point. These kinds of shenanigans have been happening often enough that it's also now part of the culture. The culture is a real problem for crypto.
cactusplant7374 4y ago
He's partly responsible for exposing a scam. It had to happen at some point. People really underrate CZ. I've been following him for several years now and he has taken a measured approach to risk. People have attacked him instead of Brian Armstrong. I don't see a difference. Armstrong is choosing to list tokens that are likely securities.
- yao420 4y ago
  I hate crypto but be real, Coinbase actually releases financial statements due to being regulated in the USA. Armstrong has a giant mansion in LA. Where is Binance or CZ? Binance chain (BNB) is a fork of ethereum that is specifically created for frauds. Coinbase does not have one. Binance lists monero, the currency of darknet markets. Coinbase stays far away from any privacy coin that could raise flags.
  - cactusplant7374 4y ago
    > I hate crypto but be real, Coinbase actually releases financial statements due to being regulated in the USA. My argument is that tokens on Coinbase are unregulated and haven't been approved by regulators. That point still stands even if Coinbase publishes financial statements as a public company. > Armstrong has a giant mansion in LA. Where is Binance or CZ? He said once that he lives in Airbnb's and doesn't like the hassle of owning a house. I'm with him on this one. Do you really want a bunch of strangers (cleaners, maintenance, gardeners, etc) walking around your house as a wealthy person? That's a business. Not a home. > Binance chain (BNB) is a fork of ethereum that is specifically created for frauds. Coinbase does not have one. Coinbase originally just listed a few cryptocurrencies. Nothing changed in terms of regulation and then they started to list a lot more. So what changed in terms of Coinbase's thinking? Profit motive became more intense after they went public. > Binance lists monero, the currency of darknet markets. Coinbase stays far away from any privacy coin that could raise flags. Almost every cryptocurrency on Coinbase raises red flags. Quite a few of them did ICO's or something similar. They sold to investors without proper disclosures. ICO's are a slimy way to raise funds. So why does Coinbase list tokens that did ICO's?
1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
This comment exhibits the exact behaviour it purports to criticise: generalisation. The submission is about Binance, but the comment tries to broaden the subject to "crypto". It succeeds. Some might say introducing a tangent, here about a theory of utility of something, acts to deflect attention away from the facts, in this case an operation that has been under investgation by US authorities for years and is now under more public scrutiny, and for (arguably) good reason. I am not disgreeing with the comment. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I am simply observing it has introduced a tangent. The thread got hijacked. The subject of the submission is Binance, specifically its accounting practices.
julianeon 4y ago
I think this is unfair to the founder of Binance, honestly. SBF was a pure unadulterated scammer. He was a thief, a crook, with no redeeming qualities. The guy who picks your pocket - SBF is as bad, worse, than that. The founder of Binance voiced some doubts about the safety of SBF's exchange. Why? Because he had some insight into it. Because he knew people had their money in it and, by staying silent, people could lose more. And because, if SBF turned out to be a scammer, he doesn't owe him 'respect' - he owes the people in the industry a warning, if he can give them a timely one. He was right about every single suspicion he had, and when it comes to his 'criticisms' of SBF, he deserves absolutely zero blame.
- tootie 4y ago
  CZ bought a huge amount of FTT. Making wise investments is part of his job and he failed. Why? Because it's absolutely impossible to make rational investments in crypto. Why did he buy it in the first place? What information was available to justify the price of FTT? What calculation did he make that said it would pay off? And what changed to make him sell?
  - boomerango 4y ago
    A slight clarification: Binance owned a 15% stake in FTX and sold it back to FTX for FTT.
    - sroussey 4y ago
      Which seems like a worse decision, not a better one.
mradek 4y ago
in re to to ur note I feel like cryptocurrency is whatever/terrible because “money” is involved first and foremost (brings out to many sketch people for my personal taste) but blockchain aka distributed ledger is pretty dope. I think blockchain as a backend for protocols for various services and activities is a good idea.

FormerBandmate 4y ago

And it was over Twitter of all things. This is the history of 19th century banking repeating itself as a giant farce

corv 4y ago
Of course letting everyone print their own money is a farce and doesn't actually generate any value for society. In that sense Binance is guilty here with their BNB token, having also set the example for FTX' FTT token.
- YawningAngel 4y ago
  To be fair to Binance, they have thus far honoured their wildcat dollars.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    Wildcat banks always honor their receipts. Until they suddenly don't

cuteboy19 4y ago

A lot of the journalism is being done by coindesk on this topic. Coindesk is owned by the same company who owns Gemini, a rival exchange. So it is indeed poetic

cactusplant7374 4y ago
I think you have made a mistake. DCG owns CoinDesk but not Gemini. https://www.reuters.com/technology/crypto-exchange-gemini-trying-recover-900-million-crypto-lender-genesis-ft-2022-12-03/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/crypto-exchange-gemini-tr...
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  Yes, thanks for the correction

oneoff786 4y ago

There’s a lot of human systems that would be great if not for the humans!

deebosong 4y ago

I'm sure you've fielded this Q many times. I don't wanna be a full-on hater of crypto. And I do wanna hear of use-cases that are relevant and intuitively understandable or at baseline, usable, to laymen. What utility do you see – through all the noise and chaos and human flaws that taint all things – from crypto, that to you just makes sense and will prevail in light of all the deserved and undeserved criticism?

arch1e 4y ago
My country is cracking down on civil liberties (I'm not talking the ability to not take certain vaccines), I'm talking about religious freedom among other things and crypto like XMR gives me a way to make sure I am able to buy stuff like Mullvad VPN (again for privacy) without going through a centralized payment processor. This is just one instance though, I even get domains from njall.la now with XMR/crypto and enjoy a lot of privacy benefits (coming from godaddy)
- m00dy 4y ago
  you are not alone...
- okasaki 4y ago
  Ah ok, the use case is breaking the law.
  - brookst 4y ago
    I read it as maintaining privacy while doing legal things that a corrupt government might punish despite their legality. What led you to think laws are being broken in those scenarios?
  - keyme 4y ago
    Yes. Or, in other words, maintaining morality despite laws.
  - andrepd 4y ago
    Yes, it may surprise you that the women in Iran, for instance, are breaking the law. And so did the people who founded the USA, in another example. Law ≠ moralityb

criddell 4y ago

> I personally believe in the utility of crypto That seeing utility in crypto requires faith is telling.

cokeandpepsi 4y ago
the real utility in being able to play HFT-arbitrage trader at home without all the rules and regulations tied to other markets i'm not a fan personally having worked for a time with people invovled in crypto, it just feels like the condensiation of everything wrong with technology eitherway imo the rise of legal gambling apps will probably kill the industry since that scratches the itch most people went to cryptocurrency to remedy
seydor 4y ago
In particular, it requires lack of faith (in forced currency). Crypto followers right now are like atheists in medieval europe.

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

"Believe" means faith which is inherently non rational. Nothing ignorant about not sharing someone's religion.

onecommentman 4y ago

Who makes these changes? I shoot an arrow right. It lands left. I ride after a deer and find myself chased by a hog. I plot to get what I want and end up in prison. I dig pits to trap others and fall in. I should be suspicious of what I want. - Rumi (13th C Persian poet, tr. Barks)

renewiltord 4y ago

Unlikely he just attacked on his own tbh. Probably retaliation for SBF trying to sic OFAC on Binance.

vsareto 4y ago

Technically separate? Definitely. But you can't separate exchanges from crypto now. It's how pretty much all mainstream marketing happens for crypto at this point. These kinds of shenanigans have been happening often enough that it's also now part of the culture. The culture is a real problem for crypto.

cactusplant7374 4y ago

He's partly responsible for exposing a scam. It had to happen at some point. People really underrate CZ. I've been following him for several years now and he has taken a measured approach to risk. People have attacked him instead of Brian Armstrong. I don't see a difference. Armstrong is choosing to list tokens that are likely securities.

yao420 4y ago
I hate crypto but be real, Coinbase actually releases financial statements due to being regulated in the USA. Armstrong has a giant mansion in LA. Where is Binance or CZ? Binance chain (BNB) is a fork of ethereum that is specifically created for frauds. Coinbase does not have one. Binance lists monero, the currency of darknet markets. Coinbase stays far away from any privacy coin that could raise flags.
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  > I hate crypto but be real, Coinbase actually releases financial statements due to being regulated in the USA. My argument is that tokens on Coinbase are unregulated and haven't been approved by regulators. That point still stands even if Coinbase publishes financial statements as a public company. > Armstrong has a giant mansion in LA. Where is Binance or CZ? He said once that he lives in Airbnb's and doesn't like the hassle of owning a house. I'm with him on this one. Do you really want a bunch of strangers (cleaners, maintenance, gardeners, etc) walking around your house as a wealthy person? That's a business. Not a home. > Binance chain (BNB) is a fork of ethereum that is specifically created for frauds. Coinbase does not have one. Coinbase originally just listed a few cryptocurrencies. Nothing changed in terms of regulation and then they started to list a lot more. So what changed in terms of Coinbase's thinking? Profit motive became more intense after they went public. > Binance lists monero, the currency of darknet markets. Coinbase stays far away from any privacy coin that could raise flags. Almost every cryptocurrency on Coinbase raises red flags. Quite a few of them did ICO's or something similar. They sold to investors without proper disclosures. ICO's are a slimy way to raise funds. So why does Coinbase list tokens that did ICO's?

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago

This comment exhibits the exact behaviour it purports to criticise: generalisation. The submission is about Binance, but the comment tries to broaden the subject to "crypto". It succeeds. Some might say introducing a tangent, here about a theory of utility of something, acts to deflect attention away from the facts, in this case an operation that has been under investgation by US authorities for years and is now under more public scrutiny, and for (arguably) good reason. I am not disgreeing with the comment. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I am simply observing it has introduced a tangent. The thread got hijacked. The subject of the submission is Binance, specifically its accounting practices.

julianeon 4y ago

I think this is unfair to the founder of Binance, honestly. SBF was a pure unadulterated scammer. He was a thief, a crook, with no redeeming qualities. The guy who picks your pocket - SBF is as bad, worse, than that. The founder of Binance voiced some doubts about the safety of SBF's exchange. Why? Because he had some insight into it. Because he knew people had their money in it and, by staying silent, people could lose more. And because, if SBF turned out to be a scammer, he doesn't owe him 'respect' - he owes the people in the industry a warning, if he can give them a timely one. He was right about every single suspicion he had, and when it comes to his 'criticisms' of SBF, he deserves absolutely zero blame.

tootie 4y ago
CZ bought a huge amount of FTT. Making wise investments is part of his job and he failed. Why? Because it's absolutely impossible to make rational investments in crypto. Why did he buy it in the first place? What information was available to justify the price of FTT? What calculation did he make that said it would pay off? And what changed to make him sell?
- boomerango 4y ago
  A slight clarification: Binance owned a 15% stake in FTX and sold it back to FTX for FTT.
  - sroussey 4y ago
    Which seems like a worse decision, not a better one.

mradek 4y ago

in re to to ur note I feel like cryptocurrency is whatever/terrible because “money” is involved first and foremost (brings out to many sketch people for my personal taste) but blockchain aka distributed ledger is pretty dope. I think blockchain as a backend for protocols for various services and activities is a good idea.