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There are many extremely awful things that have been normalized in SF that are not normal in most (all?) large American cities. For example: Mentally ill peopl

There are many extremely awful things that have been normalized in SF that are not normal in most (all?) large American cities. For example: Mentally ill people in high-traffic areas that openly use drugs and defecate on the sidewalk. High chance of having your car window smashed and car contents stolen. Retail stores putting ever more items behind lock and key. Women feeling unsafe walking alone in many areas of the city after dark. Public parks full of criminal element that make walking through it a high-stress, high-alert situation. All of this results in a high level of general anxiety and makes it an unpleasant place to live or even visit. Anyone who still lives in SF, I feel extremely bad that this is your life. It’s extremely sad.

jorts 4y ago
Which public parks are full of criminal element?
tptacek 4y ago
Three of these things are pretty normal in big cities --- having your car broken into (it was unbelievably bad back in the days where car stereos were valuable), having the soap locked up at the Walgreens, and feeling unsafe after dark. But the other ones, having lived in San Francisco for a couple years and visited semifrequently afterwards, do feel sort of distinctively west coast. Certainly the reported normalization of daylight retail store robberies seems pretty abnormal! Later Oh, my god, people, yes, I am referring to what’s normal in North America, not Europe. I assumed that was obvious but, whatever, I’m not here to defame Antwerp.
- TreeRingCounter 4y ago
- demindiro 4y ago
  > Three of these things are pretty normal in big cities --- having your car broken into (it was unbelievably bad back in the days where car stereos were valuable), having the soap locked up at the Walgreens, and feeling unsafe after dark. At least here in Antwerp this is not normal at all, even though there is apparently a pretty big mafia who like making grenades explode. In fact, I can't recall visiting any city, even in other countries, where this is considered "normal".
  - adamwk 4y ago
    GP said American cities….
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  Sorry, most of these are not normal in big cities in the developed world, e.g. Scandinavian countries or Western European countries (I only have personal experience with these outside the US).
  - Dma54rhs 4y ago
    Definitely not normal in southern Europe either.
- torben-friis 4y ago
  I have never visited a city where any of that is normal, at least here in Europe.
- knightofmars 4y ago
  You're being down-voted for some odd reason. This response is very accurate with regards to the types of crime that happen in most major cities. EDIT: Having read the additional comments I understand that the perspective is those in US cities versus other locations in the world. The crime being described is common in major US cities.
  - nervousvarun 4y ago
    --most major "American" cities. Context is important...for example in Tokyo this would be highly unusual.
    - pookah 4y ago
      My suspicion with Japan is that they commit large numbers of their population -- who would be homeless -- into shadowy psychiatric hospitals. Which I think is worse.
  - TexanFeller 4y ago
    I've never experienced this once in Texas cities like Austin or DFW. Neither have any of my friends. Less experienced with Houston, and it's generally less safe, but never a problem in the weeks I've spent there either. I was worried Austin was on the cusp of such problems a year or two ago when the mayor implemented SF style policies, but those have been rolled back and things are mostly back to normal.
    - verall 4y ago
      Austin is extremely safe and barely even qualifies as a "large" city. Outside of downtown DFW is like a huge extended suburb, and listen to the way residents there talk about their downtown. Houston is a much better comparison and does deal with similar problems. > I was worried Austin was on the cusp of such problems a year or two ago when the mayor implemented SF style policies Extreme eye rolling here...
      - TexanFeller 4y ago
- simonbarker87 4y ago
  Outside of the US these are absolutely not normal in big cities.
- johndhi 4y ago
  My wife's empty car was broken into five times in 5 years in SF (we stopped replacing the stereo finally), the license plate stolen once.
fooblaster 4y ago
when did you live in San Francisco?
giraffe_lady 4y ago
It is truly awful that one of the most powerful centers of wealth generation in the world also cultivates an environment where people can have nothing and be treated as less than human because of it, then be personally blamed for their reaction to that state. We should not have normalized that.
- jackfoxy 4y ago
  "You will own nothing and be happy." - WEF
jrm4 4y ago
Do you live there? This is a genuine question; I'm trying to separate possible FUD from the truth here. I lived in NYC 20 years ago, and you're not describing anything different.
- timr 4y ago
  I lived in SF for almost a decade, until about 2017. OP is not exaggerating. I just made a post where I outlined some (not all!) of the things that actually happened to me, and they're pretty much a recitation of OP's list. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34039215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34039215
- atlasunshrugged 4y ago
  I lived there (apt at 5th and Mission and office near the Caltrain station) until a few years ago and many friends still do (although quite a few have left). All OP's comments seem reasonable.
- epicureanideal 4y ago
  I live nearby and try to avoid going there because it’s that awful.
- zer0-c00l 4y ago
  LOL of course he doesn’t. > Public parks full of criminal element that make walking through it a high-stress, high-alert situation This one is especially laughable, nothing could be further from the truth
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  I currently live in SF and have lived in NYC. In all honesty it's not all that different. I think the main difference is the weather and number of shelter beds. There are many times a year when being outdoors in NYC isn't possible, so they have more shelter beds and more use of those beds. In SF that dynamic doesn't exist. Other than that, it's the same in my experience.
  - timr 4y ago
soraki_soladead 4y ago
As mentioned, many of these are very common in other large cities (EDIT: fine, in the US). I'm going to call out this one because its frequently mentioned and seems harder to tackle than the other problems: > Mentally ill people in high-traffic areas that openly use drugs and defecate on the sidewalk. What is the solution to this? Round them up and put them in jail? Bus them to another city? Forcibly enroll them at a mental health facility? Improving housing costs somehow? Free housing for the homeless? Maybe walk-in drug clinics? Some of these solutions sound inhumane. Others appear to be politically impossible at the scale needed. So what's the solution and why are the people who live there against it?
- petesergeant 4y ago
  > What is the solution to this Many other large cities handle this well, so it seems to pretend there aren't solutions? I've spent recent time in London, New York, and Bangkok -- as well as a number of smaller cities -- and there's nothing like what I saw in SF.
  - ratg13 4y ago
    New York paid for bus,train, and plane tickets for homeless to make them someone else’s problem. https://nypost.com/2019/10/26/nyc-homeless-initiative-sends-people-across-us-without-telling-receiving-cities/ https://nypost.com/2019/10/26/nyc-homeless-initiative-sends-... Would not file this under “handling it well”
    - petesergeant 4y ago
      “The Special One-Time Assistance (SOTA) program provides one year’s full rent up-front for eligible Department of Homeless Services (DHS) clients to move within or outside New York City.” So, NYC gives homeless people a year of rent anywhere those people think they’ll be able to make it work, including NYC. And the program seems to save the city money.
      - soraki_soladead 4y ago
scoofy 4y ago
SF-Stockholm Syndrome We are the boiled frog. Most here seem to think this sort of thing is normal now.
justlikeseattle 4y ago
Sounds exactly like Seattle. Ever since Police powers have been taken away. Crime has drastically gone up. I grew up here and when nobody knew about Seattle. It was a awesome place to live. Now, not such a good place. You add yearly 1+ month of forest fire smoke to the mix. It doesn't leave to much left.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  What are you talking about? Even according to SPD’s own crime reporting dashboard[0], incidents have not gone up drastically in the last two years like you are implying, and this year’s numbers look like they are trending back down to 2018 levels. Seattle’s issues also certainly didn’t start two years ago, anyone who has lived here has known about things like 3rd being extremely sketchy. Hell, even back in 2011 that was a thing. It’s certainly far from new. Problems have certainly gotten worse in the last two years but let’s not sit here and pretend the city was roses and unicorns before 2020. And how, exactly is it Seattle resident’s fault that there’s smoke now? [0]: https://www.seattle.gov/police/information-and-data/crime-dashboard https://www.seattle.gov/police/information-and-data/crime-da...

jorts 4y ago

Which public parks are full of criminal element?

tptacek 4y ago

Three of these things are pretty normal in big cities --- having your car broken into (it was unbelievably bad back in the days where car stereos were valuable), having the soap locked up at the Walgreens, and feeling unsafe after dark. But the other ones, having lived in San Francisco for a couple years and visited semifrequently afterwards, do feel sort of distinctively west coast. Certainly the reported normalization of daylight retail store robberies seems pretty abnormal! Later Oh, my god, people, yes, I am referring to what’s normal in North America, not Europe. I assumed that was obvious but, whatever, I’m not here to defame Antwerp.

TreeRingCounter 4y ago
demindiro 4y ago
> Three of these things are pretty normal in big cities --- having your car broken into (it was unbelievably bad back in the days where car stereos were valuable), having the soap locked up at the Walgreens, and feeling unsafe after dark. At least here in Antwerp this is not normal at all, even though there is apparently a pretty big mafia who like making grenades explode. In fact, I can't recall visiting any city, even in other countries, where this is considered "normal".
- adamwk 4y ago
  GP said American cities….
cscurmudgeon 4y ago
Sorry, most of these are not normal in big cities in the developed world, e.g. Scandinavian countries or Western European countries (I only have personal experience with these outside the US).
- Dma54rhs 4y ago
  Definitely not normal in southern Europe either.
torben-friis 4y ago
I have never visited a city where any of that is normal, at least here in Europe.
knightofmars 4y ago
You're being down-voted for some odd reason. This response is very accurate with regards to the types of crime that happen in most major cities. EDIT: Having read the additional comments I understand that the perspective is those in US cities versus other locations in the world. The crime being described is common in major US cities.
- nervousvarun 4y ago
  --most major "American" cities. Context is important...for example in Tokyo this would be highly unusual.
  - pookah 4y ago
    My suspicion with Japan is that they commit large numbers of their population -- who would be homeless -- into shadowy psychiatric hospitals. Which I think is worse.
- TexanFeller 4y ago
  I've never experienced this once in Texas cities like Austin or DFW. Neither have any of my friends. Less experienced with Houston, and it's generally less safe, but never a problem in the weeks I've spent there either. I was worried Austin was on the cusp of such problems a year or two ago when the mayor implemented SF style policies, but those have been rolled back and things are mostly back to normal.
  - verall 4y ago
    Austin is extremely safe and barely even qualifies as a "large" city. Outside of downtown DFW is like a huge extended suburb, and listen to the way residents there talk about their downtown. Houston is a much better comparison and does deal with similar problems. > I was worried Austin was on the cusp of such problems a year or two ago when the mayor implemented SF style policies Extreme eye rolling here...
    - TexanFeller 4y ago
simonbarker87 4y ago
Outside of the US these are absolutely not normal in big cities.
johndhi 4y ago
My wife's empty car was broken into five times in 5 years in SF (we stopped replacing the stereo finally), the license plate stolen once.

fooblaster 4y ago

when did you live in San Francisco?

giraffe_lady 4y ago

It is truly awful that one of the most powerful centers of wealth generation in the world also cultivates an environment where people can have nothing and be treated as less than human because of it, then be personally blamed for their reaction to that state. We should not have normalized that.

jackfoxy 4y ago
"You will own nothing and be happy." - WEF

jrm4 4y ago

Do you live there? This is a genuine question; I'm trying to separate possible FUD from the truth here. I lived in NYC 20 years ago, and you're not describing anything different.

timr 4y ago
I lived in SF for almost a decade, until about 2017. OP is not exaggerating. I just made a post where I outlined some (not all!) of the things that actually happened to me, and they're pretty much a recitation of OP's list. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34039215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34039215
atlasunshrugged 4y ago
I lived there (apt at 5th and Mission and office near the Caltrain station) until a few years ago and many friends still do (although quite a few have left). All OP's comments seem reasonable.
epicureanideal 4y ago
I live nearby and try to avoid going there because it’s that awful.
zer0-c00l 4y ago
LOL of course he doesn’t. > Public parks full of criminal element that make walking through it a high-stress, high-alert situation This one is especially laughable, nothing could be further from the truth
iancmceachern 4y ago
I currently live in SF and have lived in NYC. In all honesty it's not all that different. I think the main difference is the weather and number of shelter beds. There are many times a year when being outdoors in NYC isn't possible, so they have more shelter beds and more use of those beds. In SF that dynamic doesn't exist. Other than that, it's the same in my experience.
- timr 4y ago

soraki_soladead 4y ago

As mentioned, many of these are very common in other large cities (EDIT: fine, in the US). I'm going to call out this one because its frequently mentioned and seems harder to tackle than the other problems: > Mentally ill people in high-traffic areas that openly use drugs and defecate on the sidewalk. What is the solution to this? Round them up and put them in jail? Bus them to another city? Forcibly enroll them at a mental health facility? Improving housing costs somehow? Free housing for the homeless? Maybe walk-in drug clinics? Some of these solutions sound inhumane. Others appear to be politically impossible at the scale needed. So what's the solution and why are the people who live there against it?

petesergeant 4y ago
> What is the solution to this Many other large cities handle this well, so it seems to pretend there aren't solutions? I've spent recent time in London, New York, and Bangkok -- as well as a number of smaller cities -- and there's nothing like what I saw in SF.
- ratg13 4y ago
  New York paid for bus,train, and plane tickets for homeless to make them someone else’s problem. https://nypost.com/2019/10/26/nyc-homeless-initiative-sends-people-across-us-without-telling-receiving-cities/ https://nypost.com/2019/10/26/nyc-homeless-initiative-sends-... Would not file this under “handling it well”
  - petesergeant 4y ago
    “The Special One-Time Assistance (SOTA) program provides one year’s full rent up-front for eligible Department of Homeless Services (DHS) clients to move within or outside New York City.” So, NYC gives homeless people a year of rent anywhere those people think they’ll be able to make it work, including NYC. And the program seems to save the city money.
    - soraki_soladead 4y ago

scoofy 4y ago

SF-Stockholm Syndrome We are the boiled frog. Most here seem to think this sort of thing is normal now.

justlikeseattle 4y ago

Sounds exactly like Seattle. Ever since Police powers have been taken away. Crime has drastically gone up. I grew up here and when nobody knew about Seattle. It was a awesome place to live. Now, not such a good place. You add yearly 1+ month of forest fire smoke to the mix. It doesn't leave to much left.

mynameisvlad 4y ago
What are you talking about? Even according to SPD’s own crime reporting dashboard[0], incidents have not gone up drastically in the last two years like you are implying, and this year’s numbers look like they are trending back down to 2018 levels. Seattle’s issues also certainly didn’t start two years ago, anyone who has lived here has known about things like 3rd being extremely sketchy. Hell, even back in 2011 that was a thing. It’s certainly far from new. Problems have certainly gotten worse in the last two years but let’s not sit here and pretend the city was roses and unicorns before 2020. And how, exactly is it Seattle resident’s fault that there’s smoke now? [0]: https://www.seattle.gov/police/information-and-data/crime-dashboard https://www.seattle.gov/police/information-and-data/crime-da...