10 ms·

Serious question: Is there an alternative narrative here? People are acting like Musk changed course for no reason, but are there no real claims that the accoun

• nerdix 4y ago
  Free speech is subject to rules? Because Twitter had rules and they enforced those rules which led to bans/suspensions...and people were upset about that on free speech grounds.
  • throwaway894345 4y ago
    The implication that free speech people are hypocrites is a little premature. The policies just changed. I'm sure there will be several opportunities before the day is over to gotcha someone in some genuine hypocrisy, but let's see how this one plays out.
• afavour 4y ago
  If there is the only people that can say as such are Twitter and/or Musk himself. So far we’ve heard nothing.
• X6S1x6Okd1st 4y ago
  Nothing unusual on the FB account https://m.facebook.com/ElonJet/ https://m.facebook.com/ElonJet/
• LastTrain 4y ago
  "ElonJet is Now Suspended" is the narrative.
• Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  Like what? Musk, the self-proclaimed free speech absolutionist, said he removed most policies and whatnot.
  • 1234letshaveatw 4y ago
    I thought he mentioned increasing the removal of illegal content and ensuring that public discourse wasn't influenced/manipulated, by state actors, overwhelmingly towards one side over another?
    • rootusrootus 4y ago
      The content in question is public and not even a little bit illegal.
      • 1234letshaveatw 4y ago
        Correct, I was responding to the comment re:policy and not Jet tracking
    • ethanbond 4y ago
      Yes you're interpreting his completely nonsubstantive "rule-by-implicature" as intended: Elon said he was gonna do Good Things and he's gonna stop Bad Things and I don't really need to think about what constitutes either of those things.
    • ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      > wasn't influenced/manipulated, by state actors, overwhelmingly towards one side over another Step 1 - learn that there are more than two sides to the world. Even in 2D thinking of the flat earth. We live in 3D
  • dr-detroit 4y ago
• smcl 4y ago
  I think you have to ask yourself which of the following is more likely: 1. @elonjet suddenly started to engage in some extremist/TOS-breaking behaviour 2. Elon Musk changed his mind Given that #2 has happened a few times already, I think that's a pretty reasonable assumption.
  • yanderekko 4y ago
    Oh, so you can provide another example of Elon directly saying he would do X and then turning around and doing not-X a month or so later with no sort of intervening events that would justify an about-face? I can't think of any.
    • BlargMcLarg 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc.#Musk's_promises https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc.#Musk'... seems like a good start. The rabbit hole itself certainly goes far deeper than anyone could traverse in a few hours.
    • pjc50 4y ago
      (gestures at Twitter in general, and the recision of self driving)
      • BuildTheRobots 4y ago
        "Self driving? We can already do this today!" "All the houses in this picture? They've already got our solar roof tiles fitted!" (they didn't) "Everything Hyperloop!" My issue with Musk isn't that he changes his mind based on new evidence, or even oversells promises of the future. It's the fact he's willing to stand in front of a crowd, look people in the eye and _flat_out_lie_ about what state things are in today.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • mozumder 4y ago
• pastor_bob 4y ago
  Yeah, maybe Twitter instituted a new rule (not public) that you can't track Elon Musk's flight patterns. Follow the rules, people.
  • yusefnapora 4y ago
    Great advice. Everyone should be sure to follow all the rules, especially the secret ones they don't know about.
    • JadeNB 4y ago
      I'm pretty sure (but who knows, when it comes to discourse around Musk?) pastor_bob was joking.
• SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
  If there was nobody would know about it because it literally just happened! This is one of the reasons I always flag these "breaking ragebait controversy" Twitter threads - even if someone's curious and genuinely wants to understand an issue in its full context, they can't. The only options right now are to wait for more information or get mad based on incomplete information.
• outside1234 4y ago
  He literally just unbanned an account that tried to run a coup on the federal government and yet an account that shows where his jet is is dangerous? Which is it? Because it seems like "I don't like it" is the new justification for bans and "I agree with it" is the new justification for unblocking accounts.
  • soneil 4y ago
    The account that first posted a video of Elon being booed on stage at a recent comedy show, was swiftly suspended. It's very difficult to deny this quacks like a duck.
  • LilBytes 4y ago
    I believe the account he banned vs unbanned has a distinction. One account alligns with his long term strategy for $x whereas the other competes against his $x strategy. It's difficult to say what said strategy is or may be but it'd be foolish to assume his decisions haven't been considered and vetted. But yes, intent is not well understood at all.
• devmor 4y ago
  If you respond to the reporting of non-editorialized, objective fact with the question "Is there an alternative narrative?", I think it is time to check your own biases.
  • yanderekko 4y ago
    I'm not disputing the fact that the account was banned, but the implicit assumption that people are making that it was banned simply because Musk woke up today and decided that he was tired of it.
    • devmor 4y ago
      I get that much. I'm asking why would you think that there is a narrative to this ban, given the content of recent events regard Musk's stewardship of Twitter. Is there some context to this account's history regarding the Twitter Terms of Service that would legitimately lead you to think this?
• pjc50 4y ago
  Why does anyone care about alternative "narratives"? Are there any other facts that one might like to introduce? Not alternative facts, things that actually happened.
  • starkd 4y ago
    There is an alternative justification in the right to privacy. Such accounts are indeed reckless with no corresponding need to know. No one's free speech rights are being suppressed here.
    • Q6T46nT668w6i3m 4y ago
      You think we should enshrine property (e.g., aircraft) with a right to privacy?
      • ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        Expensive property will soon have more rifhts that poor people do
      • kjksf 4y ago
        Can I attach a GPS tracker to your car and publish the coordinates in real time to the internet? Of course I can't. It would be illegal. Not because of disingenuous "car has a right to privacy" logic but because any judge would conclude that by tracking a car you're tracking the owner of the car and the owner does have a right to privacy. Similarly, if the name @ElonJet doesn't give out the purpose: the account is tracking Elon by way of tracking his jet. Morally speaking, the justification for transparency of jet location was to track them in order to increase safety of flying. It wasn't to enable tracking of rich people. It's legal but it's a loophole. And somehow Elon hate completely overshadows the fact that the guy running @ElonJet account is an asshole.
        • Q6T46nT668w6i3m 4y ago
          I think you misunderstand the situation. The transponder transmits the data. This isn’t anything like attaching a GPS device to someone’s car.
• marricks 4y ago
  > People are acting like Musk changed course for no reason I'm not sure that's the case. I think many people, myself included, assumed Musk's course was always "just do what's best for me." So he's really just holding to that. You should give people in your life the benefit of the doubt, but large corporations and billionaires usually found success by acting in their own interest so they will just keep on doing that.
  • throwaway894345 4y ago
    > large corporations and billionaires usually found success by acting in their own interest so they will just keep on doing that I mean, if you have to irrationally hate someone, I guess billionaires are going to be the ones with the resources to handle it, but I'd really rather we as a society move away from this sort of cathartic scapegoating altogether. The more we normalize taking our anger out on some group or another, backed up by flimsy excuses like "x usually found success by acting in their own interest" the more likely it becomes that "x" will be "The Jews" or some other group.
    • Retric 4y ago
      That suggests people hand out equal hate to all billionaires. JK Rawling seems like an obvious exception to that narrative. From what I have seen billionaires tend to get more hate because they simply have more negative impact on peoples lives. Elon kicking out Tesla’s founders is hard to judge objectively because they might have done a worse job, but it’s easy to identify lots of dumb shit he did that harmed the company. Presumably he did plenty of positive things, but the negatives are just easier to identify.
      • yunwal 4y ago
        JK Rowling isn’t exactly well-loved these days https://www.cbsnews.com/news/daniel-radcliffe-defends-speaking-out-against-j-k-rowling-controversial-comments/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/daniel-radcliffe-defends-speaki...
        • 4y ago
• lettergram 4y ago
  I mean, he's openly been saying the level of death threats he's been receiving is exceedingly high. Seems like it could just be for security.
  • rootusrootus 4y ago
    That is silly. Anybody who really wants to know where that jet is won't be relying on an entertainment account on Twitter, they'll just use FlightRadar24 to get it real time.
    • lettergram 4y ago
      There's a lot of crazy unstable people, they wont know about or be able to regularly plan monitoring FlightRadar24. They can however see "Musk lands in Chicago Midway" and run down there. So, yes a targeted organized attack wouldn't be overly hard a random chaotic attack is easier with this twitter account.
      • rootusrootus 4y ago
        By the time you found out a plane landed in Chicago, it's waaaaaay too late to intercept. People that stupid aren't a danger. It's exactly the people who know you can use public ADS-B trackers to see flight plans and predict landing times that you might actually worry about.
      • vkou 4y ago
        This is a great line of reasoning that can be used to justify banning anything. What if a soft-headed person reads it and does something horrible... Like, say, attempt to carry out a coup?
      • anigbrowl 4y ago
        It'd be great if the same standard were applies to things like bomb threats at children's hospitals because some fruit loops have convinced themselves that Pepe Silvia is hiding there, or that drag shows are an existential threat which much be opposed with gunfire.
• wilde 4y ago
  It’s an automated account that only makes one type of post lol
• lubesGordi 4y ago
  Of course there are other narratives. You're limited by your creativity. Generally the one that involves the least creativity prevails. There's a huge constituency ready to jump on Musk for whatever, and here they are, because it's easy. Until there's facts just stay agnostic...
  • zzzeek 4y ago
    did someone come up with that before? someone who had a "razor", or something.
• ptero 4y ago
  I am rarely on twitter (just reading financial macro discussions, for which twitter seems to be a center of excellence), so probably have skewed priors. That said, skimming this information I see nothing particularly bad in banning the account that posted screenshots of internal confidential discussions. This has absolutely nothing to do with the freedom of speech. It is related to breaking the promise (made when joining any company as an employee) not to divulge confidential information. This is a restriction on the freedom of speech that one knowingly agrees to when joining the company. If I knowingly posted sensitive internal discussions from my employer I would be kicked out. Or worse: if I worked in a hospital and shared some sensitive pictures I might be hit with heavy fines or spend time behind bars. My 2c.
  • eppp 4y ago
    He wasnt an employee.... As a random person on the internet why should I have any issues posting some random company's web chats?
  • jacquesm 4y ago
    An outsider being given access to confidential customer information in Europe would immediately be flagged as a GDPR violation, and given the circumstances it would probably be a reportable one as well. Don't make light of this.
• plorg 4y ago
  Steel manning really only works if you can assume the other person continues to argue in good faith. If the other person keeps moving the goalposts and demanding you construct a strong argument for their behavior they're just being abusive and I would suggest the best course of action is to leave.
  • yanderekko 4y ago
    Steelmanning requires the person you're talking to to be arguing in good faith, not the actual subjects of the narrative being steelmanned. The whole point of steelmanning is to grant those subjects good faith even if you personally think it's unwise, because the person you're talking to may disagree...
    • plorg 4y ago
      In the context of moving the goalposts, you are asking other commenters to justify another person's actions that are increasingly at odds with their words. I personally think that the narrative you are interrogating is weak, even a straw man version of the people you think you're arguing with. It seems clear to me that Elon has long operated on personal grievance with respect to Twitter, and that "free speech" is just the veneer he puts on because it works.
      • yanderekko 4y ago
        >you are asking other commenters to justify another person's actions that are increasingly at odds with their words. Yes, that's what steelmanning is. If you don't care to do it, you're free not to respond to a request for a steelmanned arugment. Explaining your principled refusal to steelman doesn't add much to the discussion.
• r0m4n0 4y ago
  He is definitely changing course here (he has publicly stated he wouldn’t squash this account) but my idea is, one of his peons is enforcing some policy about automated scripts controlling accounts. Has anyone read the TOS or seen what has changed?
• coldtea 4y ago
  Are you asking for context and nuance? What are you, a free thinker? Why not just joint he "Elon man bad" chorus?
  • jkaptur 4y ago
    Consider providing some nuance and context instead.
    • preordained 4y ago
      Nuance and context like "Elon is bad, of course he's bad" and "of course this is hypocrisy and nothing more"...because that's what we've gotten so far. As usual, there are two sides to every story unless your name is Elon, Trump, or other $UNPOPULAR_FIGURE
      • timeon 4y ago
        Is this your nuance?
  • IntelMiner 4y ago
    That's a Reddit level comment if I've ever see one I'm reminded of a quote from a journalist "Elon Musk fans were bullied in high school, and the bullies were right"
    • coldtea 4y ago
      Yeah, god forbid somebody asks for more nuance. What is this, Reddit? We're mature here, we do quality comments like "Elon Musk has the emotional stability of a teenager hitting puberty", "Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Elon Musk", and so on (actual comments on this thread).
      • IntelMiner 4y ago
        I do not respect Elon enough to give him the benefit of the doubt
• mullingitover 4y ago
  Here's my best guess: Musk lives in a bubble of yes men 24x7, except Sunday night he was on stage with Chapelle getting slapped in the face by over 10,000 people who clearly didn't like him. Probably a defining moment in his life that shook him to the core and genuinely scared him.