13 ms·

So this happened to a guy that worked for me. Loved video games, super talented front end dev. Made a horror game in Unity at evenings and weekends with his bes

• darkteflon 4y ago
  That’s awesome. Would you mind sharing which game it was?
  • dabeeeenster 4y ago
    I'm not sure if he would be upset with me if I were to publish how small his team was, sorry! Maybe the reasons above will change this.
    • schmorptron 4y ago
      That's very considerate!
    • darkteflon 4y ago
      Fair enough! Great story though and wonderful outcome for him.
    • ngcc_hk 4y ago
      Yes probably better for them to tell. Still, you are on hacker news founded by a team of 2 using lisp to earn their first million.
• fire 4y ago
  If you are still in contact with the guy, could you ask him what the marketing learning actually were? Everyone has their own take on marketing and it's honestly really difficult to get the concept with most posts about it being so fluffy. I'd honestly love some cliff notes or a bulleted list from someone who has actually succeeded, especially if they ( like me ) had no marketing experience beforehand.
  • throwntoday 4y ago
    Getting a big twitch streamer to play his game was the only marketing he needed. Although their time is up for sale I think some amount of them do genuinely enjoy gaming and will try out something that is interesting to them.
    • throwaway2037 4y ago
      This story sounds like luck. That isn't marketing. It's like hoping that Kim Kardashian will use my new face cream and tweet about it. Another idea: Bribe a popular streamer to play your game and tweet about it. I am sure it is common.
      • nonethewiser 4y ago
        Bribe? It's just paying them. It's not like they have some duty not to take money or that its illegal.
        • thaumasiotes 4y ago
          > It's just paying them. It's not like they have some duty not to take money or that its illegal. It is illegal in the context of radio stations that play music. Legal in almost every other context; payola is one of the most obviously stupid laws we have.
      • jack_pp 4y ago
        People pay streamers all the time to play their games of course, but I think twitch TOS requires for the streamer to disclose that they're being paid, they usually have it in their title like "Playing {game}, !AD'
• j-bos 4y ago
  Great on you for supporting his endeavors!
• brundolf 4y ago
  The flipside is that it's a lottery. Steam is overflowing with new indie games every day, and many very good ones die in obscurity. You really have to get lucky and go viral But yeah, the entry fee for that lottery is at a historic low, which is still great (especially for hobby devs who don't care about the rest!)
  • adamnemecek 4y ago
    Is it though? Show me a good Steam game that isn't selling well.
    • stolenmerch 4y ago
      That's difficult to evaluate since "good" is subjective. So is "selling well", to be honest. I assume you mean a game that is reasonably finished and polished and not simply shovelware, but still not getting the sales to be profitable. There are tons. 30 games drop on Steam everyday. Just sort by new and see all the games that any little indie studio would be proud to release but have few sales.
    • ancapsfascists 4y ago
      Hellion.
      • cridenour 4y ago
        This game? https://store.steampowered.com/app/588210/HELLION/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/588210/HELLION/ Looks like it sold incredibly well and was abandoned by the developers and is no longer for sale. A weird example.
        • ancapsfascists 4y ago
          It failed to sell well enough to recoup expenses.
          • mach1ne 4y ago
• todfox 4y ago
  After four years working on my retro game nearly full time, and several launches, I still don't understand marketing enough to understand what to do differently. A lot of the advice out there is something like: "create a community" or "go join several communities" or "get to know other indie devs on Twitter". To me, this simply feels fake. I don't really participate in any online communities. I spend enough time in front of a computer for work and I prefer to socialize with my real life friends. Besides, I simply have no idea how to get any kind of attention on social media. I created an eight-page booklet that recreates the first issue of Nintendo Power, except with my characters in place of Mario and Wart. It's an homage, because I developed a retro game. Somebody suggested that I post it on a retrogaming subreddit, where many others were posting fan art, and those people should recognize the magazine cover that I recreated. Well, I posted my PDF and it got about 4 upvotes. A simple photo, posted around the same time, of the very common TMNT NES cartridge got -- 800? 900? I stopped looking. I understand that what I made is not going to be for everybody. I'm not expecting to be a millionaire. But damn if I can't figure out how to even get it in front of people. Everywhere I try just gets ignored. The game is pretty substantial too. Mac, iOS, and Windows versions all done by me -- custom game engine -- 40+ hours of gameplay -- about a 5-6 hour minimum play time if you start from scratch and you know what you're doing (I was shooting for 3.5ish hours to equal Mario 3 or Mario World in "size" or "depth"). Lots of fun secrets. Nothing repeated. Challenging, but not as hard as Dwarf Fortress. Real life playtesters (not friends or family) asked me to reset the game so they could start all over again. I just wish somebody else could do the social stuff. It all just makes me want to stop programming altogether. My brain just does not work along the lines of "how can I phrase this email to get this person's attention?" So I realize cold calling is a numbers game but I seem to be ignored no matter what I do. I want to make great stuff, and I really don't care about attention/fame/money -- but what's the point of working so hard if nobody gets to enjoy it but me?
  • will5421 4y ago
    Have you thought about making a demo? That would give you something you might feel good about sharing on social media, and would be passed around on if the game is good. And it’s something you could make with your existing skill set (no crafting of emails necessary).
• conradfr 4y ago
  Not entirely true as 15 years ago two people made World of Goo which was a big success.
• koonsolo 4y ago
  Love your comment, but I want to add something to this: > 15 years ago this just wasnt possible Actually around 2003 to 2006 I was doing that. Back then we were releasing games on PocketPC, which sold around $20. It was basically 1 programmer and 1 artist, or some could do that all by themselves. But then came a period where mobile became really popular, and a lot of money started flowing into that game platform. But I do agree that now you have both the platforms and tools for small game developers to pull off some very nice games.
• Dave3of5 4y ago
  > The biggest thing I saw was that 2 guys, Unity, unity asset store and some upwork artists made a really pretty decent game. I love how this has come full circle. I'm 47 and back in the 8 bit days games were made by 1 or 2 people. 15 years ago this just wasnt possible, but now with unity, unity assets, remote for hire work, steam and twitch for marketing you can legit make it as a 2 person studio. I love it. While it's certainly possible it's very much the exception rather than the rule here. Let's take the parts of a game and individually look at why: * Gameplay - This is where small indies really shine it possible to create a game with some cool gameplay. The problem here is that to create something that people actually find fun is rather hard. Most Indie games are boring as shit, they often have a single gimicky gameplay feature. You can try this yourself to come up with something that's truly fun. Sit down for 30 minutes and build a game that's unique and fun, you'll fine it's really hard. That's why the AAA game studios don't really do that. They use other techniques to sell the game like using and big well known IP. Most AAA gameplay is not unique and often is really not that fun for this exact reason. Note also here most indie devs who have never actually made a hit with tell you to just work on making the gameplay in your game really great. It's a cop out. * Art - This is one of the hardest parts. You can kitbash a bunch of asset store stuff but then your game looks like a hodgepodge mess. You can hire an artist but if you want something really good looking you won't find them on upwork selling their labour at sweatshop rates. Really good artists are specialists in specific areas like character design, concept art, environment art ...etc. Trying to just find someone on upwork who will do all of that really well for you is basically impossible. Also note if you use stuff off the asset store you will need your artist to match that style which is actually really hard. To get really good art for a game you have to hire a team and build from the ground up. That's very difficult for indie teams most of which have no money to spend on art. * Sound - Great games have great soundtracks. Often composed by someone with a lot of experience. These people are hard to find and even harder to convince to work on a game. Again like the art it's not something people are selling for cheap on upwork. Note also that you will want stuff in the game like jumping sounds, landing, clicking all that stuff. You can again find packs with this on the asset store but they often just won't have that sound you are looking for and mixing sound packs make the game seem cheap. The sound design has to be all one piece of work really. Think mixing 8-bit era sounds with more modern stuff it doesn't work. * Testing - Often not looked upon but testing your own work doesn't work. You need someone independent to look at what you've done and break it. If you've ever played Bethesda Games you'll see what poor testing looks like. Note that the larger the scope of your game the amount of testing becomes exponential. The big AAA game studio have more testers than devs by far. If you look at many of the small indie game this really can kill the game. The devs chuck something together which looks ok and is fairly unique but is so poorly tested that no one is willing to buy. All in all it's possible to do but really hard and I would say they got really lucky. > The distribution of Steam and viral marketing of Twitch have revolutionised indie development Yes but not in the way you think. Before anyone was able to put stuff on these shops getting on Steam was a one way ticket to $$$$. There where curated stores and even being in them meant you got a seal of approval from the likes of valve. Now-a-days the steam store is filled with so much asset flip junk "indie games" it's become a meme. To be seen on any of these platforms is now a real miracle. Again on twitch getting picked up by a big streamer is like winning the lottery. The vast majority of streamers on twitch make no money and have such a tiny audience getting on their streams would only net you double digit sales if you are lucky.